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hgp

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  1. Upvote
    hgp reacted to Pudgy in I have a question about your memorial.   
    Your question is a based on TWO blatantly false assumptions and is a thinly disguised insult that legitimately deserves no response other than strong condemnation of the thought processes that spawned it.

  2. Upvote
    hgp reacted to TrueTomHarley in Are JWs in America back on the 'door to door' work now ?   
    You dodo! Bolded, all-caps, and in red!?
    He may find this not the cakewalk he imagines. The ECHR has repeated found that the tension between JWs and vocal ex-members comes from the latter group, who refuse to accept the views of their believing relatives. That court has a sound track record of righting the wrongs of lower faddish and/or populist courts.
    In a separate recent ruling from the ECHR toward Belgium, the Court ruled that country out of line in discriminating against JWs. Moreover, it did so in “a surprisingly quick decision compared to its usual standards.” One can almost picture the justices saying, “Oh. Belgium, is it? They may not know law but they know what they like.”
    Why do you not spot the obvious misrepresentation?
    All one must do to cut through his hyperbole is read published Watchtower counsel that humanitarian concerns do not terminate with disfellowshipping. One need not run from a DFed one “like the plague.”
    This will be because the man has become a fanatical crazy who will not leave his wife in peace but works 24/7 to undermine her belief system so that she tunes him out to preserve her sanity. It has to be something like this because, again, Watchtower published counsel is that normal marital relations continue in the aftermath of a disfellowshipping, minus only the spiritual component.
    No, they will not have an easy go before the ECHR. Probably the case will be reversed by a higher court before it ever gets there. It is possible the case was poorly defended. More likely, though, the local court already had its mind made up with regard to ‘anti-cult matters,” like the Russian Supreme Court of 2017, and were ready to slap down a guilty verdict on any pretext. 
    From BitterWinter: The general principle that “ostracism” per se is not justiciable, and teaching “ostracism” is not forbidden has been affirmed by a large number of precedents, including at the European Court of Human Rights and in cases in the United States, the United Kingdom, Italy, and Germany. It was confirmed last year by the Court of Rome.
    https://bitterwinter.org/disfellowshipping-ostracism-jehovahs-witnesses/
    Well, he’s not stupid. And he sees what your newfound belief system has done for you. It is you who puts the dog into dogmatic, not he.
  3. Upvote
    hgp got a reaction from JW Insider in Brothers helping Brothers Jehovah be with them.   
    After several people (including me) told you, that JWs don't do this, no one will provide proof or evidence for what we are claiming is not happening.
    Also we gave several good reasons for not doing what you want: you ignored the Biblical admonition to FIRST help your own brothers in faith. Do you think we should do what is written in Galatians 6:10 or not?
    Also we are in a situation where the whole European Union is overwhelmed with refugees. How do you expect a small number of JWs to handle a situation, that some of the richest nations of the world with more than 400million people can't handle? And since we can't handle the whole situation, what is wrong with helping your own friends first?
    Which show that you are hopelessly uninformed about the whole situation. Only a small percentage of the population (and soldiers) on both sides are catholic.
    More chaotic than it is? Millions of people with nowhere to go and next to no organized effort by some of the richest countries in the world to help them? And you think it would get less chaotic it 200.000 JWs would organize 3million refugees over night? Excuse me, but you say this so much without any knowledge, what is going on here, that I can't seriously discuss this with you.
    175.000 JWs in Russia didn't take part in the invasion. Who is doing more to stop the war?
    Huh?
    I don't know if you misunderstood your study conductor or if he misunderstood what JWs are saying. But JWs don't teach this.
    I let you answer this for you:
     
  4. Upvote
    hgp got a reaction from Anna in Brothers helping Brothers Jehovah be with them.   
    After several people (including me) told you, that JWs don't do this, no one will provide proof or evidence for what we are claiming is not happening.
    Also we gave several good reasons for not doing what you want: you ignored the Biblical admonition to FIRST help your own brothers in faith. Do you think we should do what is written in Galatians 6:10 or not?
    Also we are in a situation where the whole European Union is overwhelmed with refugees. How do you expect a small number of JWs to handle a situation, that some of the richest nations of the world with more than 400million people can't handle? And since we can't handle the whole situation, what is wrong with helping your own friends first?
    Which show that you are hopelessly uninformed about the whole situation. Only a small percentage of the population (and soldiers) on both sides are catholic.
    More chaotic than it is? Millions of people with nowhere to go and next to no organized effort by some of the richest countries in the world to help them? And you think it would get less chaotic it 200.000 JWs would organize 3million refugees over night? Excuse me, but you say this so much without any knowledge, what is going on here, that I can't seriously discuss this with you.
    175.000 JWs in Russia didn't take part in the invasion. Who is doing more to stop the war?
    Huh?
    I don't know if you misunderstood your study conductor or if he misunderstood what JWs are saying. But JWs don't teach this.
    I let you answer this for you:
     
  5. Upvote
    hgp got a reaction from TrueTomHarley in Brothers helping Brothers Jehovah be with them.   
    After several people (including me) told you, that JWs don't do this, no one will provide proof or evidence for what we are claiming is not happening.
    Also we gave several good reasons for not doing what you want: you ignored the Biblical admonition to FIRST help your own brothers in faith. Do you think we should do what is written in Galatians 6:10 or not?
    Also we are in a situation where the whole European Union is overwhelmed with refugees. How do you expect a small number of JWs to handle a situation, that some of the richest nations of the world with more than 400million people can't handle? And since we can't handle the whole situation, what is wrong with helping your own friends first?
    Which show that you are hopelessly uninformed about the whole situation. Only a small percentage of the population (and soldiers) on both sides are catholic.
    More chaotic than it is? Millions of people with nowhere to go and next to no organized effort by some of the richest countries in the world to help them? And you think it would get less chaotic it 200.000 JWs would organize 3million refugees over night? Excuse me, but you say this so much without any knowledge, what is going on here, that I can't seriously discuss this with you.
    175.000 JWs in Russia didn't take part in the invasion. Who is doing more to stop the war?
    Huh?
    I don't know if you misunderstood your study conductor or if he misunderstood what JWs are saying. But JWs don't teach this.
    I let you answer this for you:
     
  6. Upvote
    hgp got a reaction from Pudgy in Brothers helping Brothers Jehovah be with them.   
    After several people (including me) told you, that JWs don't do this, no one will provide proof or evidence for what we are claiming is not happening.
    Also we gave several good reasons for not doing what you want: you ignored the Biblical admonition to FIRST help your own brothers in faith. Do you think we should do what is written in Galatians 6:10 or not?
    Also we are in a situation where the whole European Union is overwhelmed with refugees. How do you expect a small number of JWs to handle a situation, that some of the richest nations of the world with more than 400million people can't handle? And since we can't handle the whole situation, what is wrong with helping your own friends first?
    Which show that you are hopelessly uninformed about the whole situation. Only a small percentage of the population (and soldiers) on both sides are catholic.
    More chaotic than it is? Millions of people with nowhere to go and next to no organized effort by some of the richest countries in the world to help them? And you think it would get less chaotic it 200.000 JWs would organize 3million refugees over night? Excuse me, but you say this so much without any knowledge, what is going on here, that I can't seriously discuss this with you.
    175.000 JWs in Russia didn't take part in the invasion. Who is doing more to stop the war?
    Huh?
    I don't know if you misunderstood your study conductor or if he misunderstood what JWs are saying. But JWs don't teach this.
    I let you answer this for you:
     
  7. Like
    hgp got a reaction from Thinking in Brothers helping Brothers Jehovah be with them.   
    On reflection you are right. That was my frustration speaking
  8. Upvote
    hgp got a reaction from Thinking in Brothers helping Brothers Jehovah be with them.   
    I don't doubt there exist charities. I don't even doubt that they are doing something to help. I doubt, that your criticism of JWs helping in their own way is justified.
    There are about 200.000 JWs in the countries near Ukraine. It is absurd to believe, that they can accommodate 2.5million refugees. Yet you criticize them for not doing what clearly can't be done. In doing so you ignore the Bible (Galatians 6:10): "...let us work what is good toward all, but especially toward those related to us in the faith." Why would we ignore, what the Bible tells us?
    And you ignored the point about the orthodox church. Trinitarian Christians have the belief in "one church" written into their apostolic confession of faith, but in reality they are happy to accept, that their "one Trinitarian church" is in reality divided into hundreds of churches along ethnic, racial, language borders and along theological disputes that they can't resolve for centuries. And they don't care that these groups are happily taking part in mass murder events called wars, where they destroy each other for the sake of their nations.
    So they don't grasp the idea, that when the orthodox Christians from Russia are bombing Ukrainian cities, that it is the "one church" from their confession, that is taking part in murder and genocide of their own fellow believers. Ukrainians are not fleeing to Russia, because their Russian brothers from the same orthodox Trinitarian faith are out there to kill them. And Trinitarians seemingly are happy to ignore this problem. All the while JWs are persecuted in Russia exactly because they don't participate in this madness. If all Trinitarian Christians would behave as JWs, then there would not be any war in Ukraine and no one would have to flee.
    In the light of this much larger problem I choose to ignore your criticism of how we handle the help of your fellow Trinitarians' victims. Trinitarians, go and do something about your fellow believers killing each other. And after you accomplished that, then you can come back and lecture us about how we should help their victims.
  9. Upvote
    hgp got a reaction from Anna in Brothers helping Brothers Jehovah be with them.   
    On reflection you are right. That was my frustration speaking
  10. Upvote
    hgp got a reaction from Anna in Brothers helping Brothers Jehovah be with them.   
    I don't doubt there exist charities. I don't even doubt that they are doing something to help. I doubt, that your criticism of JWs helping in their own way is justified.
    There are about 200.000 JWs in the countries near Ukraine. It is absurd to believe, that they can accommodate 2.5million refugees. Yet you criticize them for not doing what clearly can't be done. In doing so you ignore the Bible (Galatians 6:10): "...let us work what is good toward all, but especially toward those related to us in the faith." Why would we ignore, what the Bible tells us?
    And you ignored the point about the orthodox church. Trinitarian Christians have the belief in "one church" written into their apostolic confession of faith, but in reality they are happy to accept, that their "one Trinitarian church" is in reality divided into hundreds of churches along ethnic, racial, language borders and along theological disputes that they can't resolve for centuries. And they don't care that these groups are happily taking part in mass murder events called wars, where they destroy each other for the sake of their nations.
    So they don't grasp the idea, that when the orthodox Christians from Russia are bombing Ukrainian cities, that it is the "one church" from their confession, that is taking part in murder and genocide of their own fellow believers. Ukrainians are not fleeing to Russia, because their Russian brothers from the same orthodox Trinitarian faith are out there to kill them. And Trinitarians seemingly are happy to ignore this problem. All the while JWs are persecuted in Russia exactly because they don't participate in this madness. If all Trinitarian Christians would behave as JWs, then there would not be any war in Ukraine and no one would have to flee.
    In the light of this much larger problem I choose to ignore your criticism of how we handle the help of your fellow Trinitarians' victims. Trinitarians, go and do something about your fellow believers killing each other. And after you accomplished that, then you can come back and lecture us about how we should help their victims.
  11. Upvote
    hgp reacted to TrueTomHarley in Brothers helping Brothers Jehovah be with them.   
    Yes, I like this comment from hgp very much. It’s an entirely valid way of looking at things. Jehovah’s Witnesses are united. Churches (in almost all cases typified by trinitarian belief) are not. If they were, Russia’s “trinitarian” soldiers (the vast bulk of the Russian population holds to the ROC faith, though they’re not necessarily active) would simply not turn weapons upon their fellow Christians. 
    Only this bit of hyperbole undermines the remark some:
    They’re usually not “happy” about it. But they do it nonetheless, and that makes the point even more powerful. The Witnesses’ love for God and fellow man, fortified by a united human organization, prevents them from picking up arms against their fellow man. Many there are in ‘Christendom’—perhaps even most, who are basically decent people, desirous of peace. But because they don’t have the same principles and unity of Jehovah’s Witnesses, the national ‘king’ finds them easy to maneuver to support whatever is the warlike project of the day.
  12. Upvote
    hgp got a reaction from Anna in Brothers helping Brothers Jehovah be with them.   
    This doesn't answer my question: Where is your charity helping refugees from Ukraine in a better way than JWs? And if there isn't, why are you criticizing them?
    And I think I'll ask you another question: Given that about 75% of all Ukrainians are orthodox Christians, why don't they flee to Russia and Belarus, where there is the world's largest community of orthodox Christians, probably more than 70million of them? That's a real and serious question that points at the elephant standing around in the room, being ignored by you.
  13. Upvote
    hgp got a reaction from Pudgy in Brothers helping Brothers Jehovah be with them.   
    This doesn't answer my question: Where is your charity helping refugees from Ukraine in a better way than JWs? And if there isn't, why are you criticizing them?
    And I think I'll ask you another question: Given that about 75% of all Ukrainians are orthodox Christians, why don't they flee to Russia and Belarus, where there is the world's largest community of orthodox Christians, probably more than 70million of them? That's a real and serious question that points at the elephant standing around in the room, being ignored by you.
  14. Upvote
    hgp got a reaction from Anna in Brothers helping Brothers Jehovah be with them.   
    While you criticize them, thousands of Witnesses here in Poland (and other countries) work literally day and night to help tens of thousands of refugees. For free.
    Feel free to build up your own organization that helps refugees better and faster and more fairly.
    No really, show me how you do this better in the real world, not just in a discussion on the internet.
    It's so easy to complain, that JWs are not perfect. It's not easy (in this case at least) to do much better. I don't see that you at least try.
  15. Thanks
    hgp got a reaction from JW Insider in Brothers helping Brothers Jehovah be with them.   
    While you criticize them, thousands of Witnesses here in Poland (and other countries) work literally day and night to help tens of thousands of refugees. For free.
    Feel free to build up your own organization that helps refugees better and faster and more fairly.
    No really, show me how you do this better in the real world, not just in a discussion on the internet.
    It's so easy to complain, that JWs are not perfect. It's not easy (in this case at least) to do much better. I don't see that you at least try.
  16. Like
    hgp got a reaction from Thinking in Brothers helping Brothers Jehovah be with them.   
    While you criticize them, thousands of Witnesses here in Poland (and other countries) work literally day and night to help tens of thousands of refugees. For free.
    Feel free to build up your own organization that helps refugees better and faster and more fairly.
    No really, show me how you do this better in the real world, not just in a discussion on the internet.
    It's so easy to complain, that JWs are not perfect. It's not easy (in this case at least) to do much better. I don't see that you at least try.
  17. Upvote
    hgp reacted to TrueTomHarley in Brothers helping Brothers Jehovah be with them.   
    When waiting at the airport why not kiss every deboarding passenger, rather than searching out your own loved one?
  18. Upvote
    hgp reacted to TrueTomHarley in How were JW elders who were really Communist Spies appointed by "Holy Spirit"?   
    If “appointed by holy spirit“ is supposed to be some sort of “foolproof” process, how could Paul have said (Acts 20:30) to first-century elders, “from among you yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves?”
  19. Upvote
    hgp reacted to TrueTomHarley in CHINA: Fake News vs. Real News   
    This statement needs sourcing, both for and against.
    This tool.
    I have heard statements similar to Arauna’s, probably through Bitter Winter, but maybe some other avenue. ‘Throw it on the stack of things to check out’
  20. Haha
  21. Haha
    hgp reacted to TrueTomHarley in KAZAKHSTAN: Plagiarised "expert analysis", Jehovah's Witnesses to pay over 3 years' wages   
    It’s kind of like when the chief nurse at the group home asked me if it was really so that overnight employees slept on the job. (A major no-no.)
    I replied that I had never actually seen one sleep on the job but I had many times seen them engage in activity that so closely resembled sleep that only a trained expert could tell the difference.
  22. Upvote
    hgp reacted to TrueTomHarley in Millions Now Living Will Never Die! by J.F. Rutherford ??????????? A few questions.   
    Tell it to Merriam Webster: 
    Definition of association
    2: an organization of persons having a common interest :     https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/association  (bolding mine)
    The words are synonymous. Nothing to get all worked up over. You haven’t discovered the smoking gun. Sheesh.
    Pestilential as Srecko may be, he does not make such ridiculous statements. He makes other ridiculous statements.
  23. Upvote
    hgp reacted to xero in Odd things you learn (if these are true) when you read other things   
    So I'm reading yet another apologetic work and this one is coming at things from a Jewish perspective.
    One thing I  just listened to was w/regard to the following passage:
    10  He said to them: “Look! When you enter into the city, a man carrying an earthenware water jar will meet you. Follow him into the house that he enters. - Lk. 22:10
    This was one of many passages I just sort of never thought about because it seemed like the stater coin fishing thing-tax episode - an Obie-wan Kenobi kind of "these are not your droids" moment.
    Then he said something a bit like the following:
    https://preachitteachit.org/articles/detail/little-known-facts-about-the-last-supper/
    Only women carried water jars.
    As to the other things  - I don't know.
     
  24. Upvote
    hgp got a reaction from Arauna in Why doesn't the Society translate and provide the Russian Court Transcripts for us?   
    One point before answerig the question: Why would a sane person knowing the points that are contained in your question,  ask for a costly translation of court transcripts that obviously are without worth when taking into account your points?
    Or more directly: Why do you ask for a costly translation of court transcripts that you yourself think worthless?
    Now answering the question: The question contains an obviously false assumption: No one thought this to be an effort to lobby the outcome of a court trial or some sort of bribe. No one really thought that these letters would convince the Russian government to stop persecuting their peaceful JW citicens. No one did really suggest that it would do this.
    The letter, where the Governing Body asked the JW to write those letters contained the following goals:
    1. drawing international attention to the situation.
    2. giving evidence of one's love for their brothers in Russsia
    3. support fellow Christians who face persecution
    Since these goals are obviously sensible and were achieved by the campaign there is no need to look for other hidden agendas that contain obviously not sensible reasons.
  25. Upvote
    hgp reacted to TrueTomHarley in Why doesn't the Society translate and provide the Russian Court Transcripts for us?   
    Thank you. That ought to put a muzzle on the crazed mutt once and for all. Alas, I doubt it will.
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