How were JW elders who were really Communist Spies appointed by "Holy Spirit"?

[Isabella]

Sorry for my terrible English, it is not my native language and where I live we only speak Spanish: How would you reconcile the affirmation of elders and ministerial servants being appointed by God when in the 80's in my country as in other countries, specially under Communist regime, there have been undercover men pretending being interested to the point of  becoming elders. Who appointed these men as elders or ministerial servants?

[TrueTomHarley]

If “appointed by holy spirit“ is supposed to be some sort of “foolproof” process, how could Paul have said (Acts 20:30) to first-century elders, “from among you yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves?”

[Pudgy]

Isabella:

Do you have any checkable references that this really happened?

What are the details?

What country, what time. And who was involved?

Without those your comment has as much validity as saying that the governing body are just ugly mermaids.

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, Isabella said:

Who appointed these men as elders or ministerial servants?

All appointments to various positions and services in the WTJWorg organization are made by people. Every appointment and every removal from the appointment is done by people. I hope this "clarification" will answer your questions about topic.

[TrueTomHarley]

6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

All appointments to various positions and services in the WTJWorg organization are made by people

Yes. Exactly as was done in the first century.

Moreover, they [Paul and Barnabas] appointed elders for them in each congregation, offering prayer with fasting, and they entrusted them to Jehovah, in whom they had become believers. (Acts 14:23)

They are “appointed by holy spirit” in that (1) the qualifications are laid out in scripture, (2) they are judged to have met those qualifications by experienced overseers who have measured up to those qualifications themselves, after (3) prayerful consideration and consultation. That’s all the expression means. That’s all it has ever meant. 

It doesn’t mean God takes away their free will and right to choose. It doesn’t mean he makes them automatons. It doesn’t mean that what is within the human realm cannot be tainted by the human.

[Melinda Mills]

Judas was appointed by Jesus also, and he was of the heavenly calling.  And I agree with the last sentence above by Bro Tom Harley. 

By the way Adam was made by God, and appointed to take care of all the earth and the animals. But he used his free will in the wrong way.

[xero]

5 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

If “appointed by holy spirit“ is supposed to be some sort of “foolproof” process, how could Paul have said (Acts 20:30) to first-century elders, “from among you yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves?”

Awesome reply. There is in all this the admission of free will in the process. Too, the criteria for evaluation has the stamp of holy spirit, as the qualifications are outlined in the bible, a product of holy spirit. One might also argue by way of example the case of Judas. Jesus prayed all night and selected him? Yes. Did that mean that he was picked because he had no free will and would ultimately betray Jesus? No. Not necessarily. It could have been anyone. Too, we see Peter denying Jesus, BUT repenting. No repentance from Judas, instead a flight from his own conscience (although in the end who knows and it's not my business to judge).

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

It doesn’t mean God takes away their free will and right to choose. It doesn’t mean he makes them automatons. It doesn’t mean that what is within the human realm cannot be tainted by the human.

GB requests and expects, from the members, that unconditional trust and obedience be given to them and to JW elders. Despite the fact that TTH has stated that everything can be corrupted (tainted by human).

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

They are “appointed by holy spirit” in that (1) the qualifications are laid out in scripture, (2) they are judged to have met those qualifications by experienced overseers who have measured up to those qualifications themselves, after (3) prayerful consideration and consultation. That’s all the expression means. That’s all it has ever meant. 

It is theoretically beautiful and poetically enchanting. And only that, nothing else.

So the question is, do you TTH and every other JW, allow an ordinary JW to have a critical appraisal of GB and elders and their ideas and decisions?

[Space Merchant]

Bon Dieu, The CCP? For starters, there are legitimate Christian Marxist out there, but unfortunately Restorationists are not involved with them. Christian Communism is the theology of compelling to support Religious Communism which correlates with a social system as is religious socialism. In short, they are Marxists. Anything of that barrel is a legitimate threat, to not just those in Asia, but outside of it too, and thanks to The Woke, we have a bit of it spreading in the states. Marxist are also not to shy of infiltration, to a degree, they are like Gangstalkers, but their end goal isn't finding a mate for solely sexual relations or mentally shifting someone (break someone). In regards to them such ones are consider a Judas, which is in line with what was already said, or perhaps like that of the people who have been excommunicated from the early church in the first century, despite being appointed higher position.

In regards to ANY faith that is Anti-Communism and or not aligning themselves with specific political views, this can land them in direct opposition to the CCP. Although Christians follow the land of these lands, they will never partake in anything associated with and or pertaining to Communism.

A Communism supporter will always infiltrate a house, a group/people, etc. for some gain and or to dismantle. To abandon Communism in the process is essentially a death sentence.

That being said, as we speak many people are either underground and or sent to camps, a small subnet, possibly black market. The Communist governments (as is the Marxist folks who follow it), are similar to most governments, in which they live in a state of insecurity and fear if there is even a small atom of change because it is something that can easily affect their judgement.

As you can see, I am strongly against the CCP, and I have many, many reasons as to why this is because of how much I consider them a threat.

[Srecko Sostar]

51 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

Although Christians follow the land of these lands, they will never partake in anything associated with and or pertaining to Communism.

Can it be concluded from this statement that Christians are less bothered by Capitalism, and that they would rather be Christians in capitalist countries than in communist ones?

That is, that the Capitalist ideology is closer to Christianity than the Communist ideology? :)) 

[Isabella]

My question was regarding the process from the beggining. I was NOT asking about men being appointed and then turning into wolves and betraying the christian congregations as Judas did or others in the 1st century and later. I meant about the appointment of  men that from the beggining had the intention/purpose of damaging the congregation. I see it has happened in other countries like Rumania.  Also found interesting this Bible verse, but I am not sure if those false brothers mentioned in Galatas 2:4 were appointed 🤔

 

 

 

Tactics of the Enemy

In their attempts to weaken the faith of Jehovah’s servants or to bully them into submission, the Communists employed spies, traitors, torture, lying propaganda, and the threat of death. Spies and informers included neighbors, work colleagues, apostates, family members, and Securitate agents. The latter even infiltrated congregations by feigning interest in the truth and learning theocratic terms. These “false brothers” did much harm and caused many arrests. One of them, Savu Gabor, even held a responsible position. He was exposed in 1969.—Gal. 2:4.

 

But that matter came up because of the false brothers brought in quietly,+ who slipped in to spy on the freedom+ we enjoy in union with Christ Jesus, so that they might completely enslave us;+

 

 

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/302006006?q=spies+romania&p=par

[Space Merchant]

57 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Can it be concluded from this statement that Christians are less bothered by Capitalism, and that they would rather be Christians in capitalist countries than in communist ones?

That is, that the Capitalist ideology is closer to Christianity than the Communist ideology? :)) 

That has nothing to do with Capitalisms, this is in regards to Marxism. Marxism is the direct opposite of Capitalism, and it is aligned with Communism. Shoehorning Capitalisms makes no sense in regards to the definition of what Marxism equates to, hence the quotations, so I do not see what you are attempting to convey here. There are views of Capitalisms in regards to religion and faith, but there is no such thing as an ideology in this regard that solidifies it entirely.

And no that isn't the definition. You clearly do not know what Capitalisms is, which makes you both unaware, and can easily succumb to a potential danger should those in that camp confront you to influence, i.e. Hasan Piker.

That being said, if you never dealt with those of Capitalism, debate them or confronted them, even in person, it is unwise to make assumptions. It is also safe to note that some of these folks are willing to throw punches, this I know from experience.