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Evacuated

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  1. Upvote
    Evacuated got a reaction from JW Insider in Does Jehovah control the weather?   
    Most Witnesses thank Jehovah at least once a day for putting food on their table. That is regardless of the fact that it may have a Walmart wrapper on it. Matt.5:45; 7:11; Col.3:15.
    Nevertheless, "Satan has demanded to have all of you to sift you as wheat. Lu.22:31. which means that "We must enter into the kingdom of God through many tribulations." Acts 14:22.
    Job had wrong perceptions of many things in his trials, but nevertheless he is known as an integrity keeper despite his errors. 
    Jehovah can and does intervene in events to further His purpose. That is why we have the Bible record of these very interventions. He will soon "intervene" in Satan's scheme to destroy all humans, not only by bringing this system to an end, but by performing billions of resurrections, including the 230,000 @Jay Witness has concern for.
    Jehovah knows that He has equipped His faithful servants 1 Tim 3:16-17. They can uphold His sovereignty through all manner of trials brought by Satan, and He alone determines when the issue of our integrity has been settled sufficiently before He "intervenes" in our personal situation. 1Pet.5:10. He will certainly let nothing stop His intention to extend the opportunity to become Integrity Keepers to the maximum number of humans before He brings this wicked system to its end.
    Meanwhile, we can thank Jehovah for every good thing in our lives because directly or indirectly, weather permitting or not,  all good things come from Him. Jas 1:17.
  2. Upvote
    Evacuated got a reaction from Melinda Mills in Why is it ok for witnesses to go to Church backed hospitals?   
    Simple answer to the original question is : choice of a medical care provider is entirely a matter of personal decision and conscience.
    Separation from Babylon the Great means separating from it's spiritual corruption and false religious teachings. The fact that religious organisations such as those  mentioned have sought to direct their efforts into social works rather than the preaching the good news of the kingdom is a matter for their accountability of their actions to God.
    I can accept that a person may feel uneasy about participating in something that might be viewed as a propaganda exercise for false religion, perhaps included in the "powerful works" described at Matt 7:22. They might feel that paying for medical services would be an indirect way of supporting a false religious organisation. That person might feel better about medical care provided by a completely secular organisation. They are at liberty to choose and should not be criticized. However, would they then seek to vet the religious persuasion of individual medical practitioners before accepting care from them? That might be viewed by some as unreasonable.
    For me, Jesus words at John 17:15-16 come to mind. We do have a role in this world ruled by the "wicked one" which is why we can be in it, but no part of it at the same time. We pay our taxes for social services rendered by governmental agencies despite the fact they are soon to be replaced by Jehovah's kingdom in the hands of Christ Jesus. This does not mean we support them or become a part of them by doing so. The current structure of things, which includes medical services provided by "religious" organisations permitted, and regulated, by current governmental agencies, for me constitutes a part of the "arrangement of God" (Rom.13:2) and serves as God's minister to me for my good. (Rom 13:4).
    So, my conscience would not be offended by getting medical care from one of the listed agencies as long as they respected my position as one of Jehovah's Witnesses with regard to non-blood medical management and freedom of speech. Neither would I view  it as as hypocritical or contradictory if another one of Jehovah's Witnesses did so.
    But then, that's me..................
  3. Upvote
    Evacuated got a reaction from Melinda Mills in Why don't we treat overeating (gluttony) with the same severity as smoking?   
    I don't think our view on this has changed in the last 30 years. (Italics mine)
    Watchtower 2004 1 November 30-31 compared gluttony and drunkenness and made this statement:
    "As with the other “works of the flesh,” a Christian who is widely known for his gluttony and who stubbornly refuses to change his greedy behavior ought to be removed from the congregation.—1 Corinthians 5:11, 13."
    Also, this article seems to address the question raised specifically:
    Questions From Readers (Watchtower 1 May 1986)
    ▪ Are Jehovah’s Witnesses as firm about gluttony among their members as they are about the harmful tobacco habit?
    Jehovah’s Witnesses take a Bible-based stand against tobacco, and they equally accept the Scriptural condemnation of gluttony.
    They believe that smoking violates Bible principles. Smoking involves a nicotine addiction. Further, it is unnatural to inhale smoke. Smoking defiles the body, causes health problems, and has shortened lives that should have been used to God’s praise. Smoking also dangerously pollutes air that others breathe; certainly, that is not neighbor love.—2 Corinthians 7:1; Romans 12:1; Mark 12:33.
    What, though, about gluttonous overeating? Frankly, the Bible condemns gluttony, which is greedy excess in eating, or voracious overeating. An Israelite son who was unrepentantly “a glutton and a drunkard” was to be executed. (Deuteronomy 21:18-21) Proverbs warns against “having companionship with gluttons.” (Proverbs 28:7; 23:20, 21) Gluttony is also wrong since we are told that “greedy persons” will not inherit God’s Kingdom. (1 Corinthians 6:9, 10; compare 1 Peter 4:3; Philippians 3:18, 19.) Christian overseers are to be “self-controlled,” not “unemployed gluttons.” (Titus 1:8, 12) This is so serious that some overseers have been removed because of their uncontrolled eating.
    It must be recognized, however, that determining when gluttony exists is not easy. Eating (in contrast with inhaling tobacco smoke) is natural and proper. Nor is being fat the sole criterion of gluttony; a very thin person might be a glutton. It is not being overweight that the Bible censures but, rather, overeating, which may or may not result in obesity.
    Some people are overweight because of glandular disorders or disease, though Professor Judith Rodin holds that only “5 percent of all cases of obesity are caused primarily by medical problems.” Heredity may incline a person to stockiness. Dr. William Bennett comments: “Lots of fat people maintain their weight by eating about what an average-weight person does . . . They are metabolically different.” Certain scientists even feel that if a fat person eats less, his body lowers its metabolic rate so that he burns calories more slowly. But even if a fat person is not a glutton in the sense of being a voracious eater, he (or she) may need to apply more seriously God’s counsel.
    For example, Christians should cultivate self-control, which applies to eating too. (Galatians 5:22, 23; 2 Peter 1:5-8) The apostle Paul urged the Christian to be like a runner who “exercises self-control in all things.” Paul ‘pummeled his body and led it as a slave that he should not become disapproved.’ (1 Corinthians 9:24-27) A stout person may have reason to ‘pummel his body’ as to how much, what, when, and how he eats.
    Being fat can be dangerous. Reports show that obesity can lead to higher blood pressure and cholesterol levels, adult-onset diabetes, several types of cancer, heart and gallbladder disease, arthritis, and respiratory problems. “A person who is 20 percent overweight faces a death rate one-third higher than average; for those 30 and 50 percent overweight, the rates are 50 and 100 percent higher, respectively.” (The New York Times, February 27, 1985) Similar reports of health problems come from England, Germany, and Italy.
    A Christian truly wants to ‘love Jehovah with his whole heart, soul [or, life], mind, and strength.’ (Mark 12:30) Many, upon studying Christianity, quit smoking to preserve their health and life. Should not Christians be just as concerned that being overweight because of overindulgence might undermine their health and their life that is dedicated to Jehovah?
    Some people eat more when they are sad, frustrated, lonely, or angry. While being a Christian does not wholly prevent such feelings, rather than finding relief in unnecessary eating, the Christian can turn to God and to his brothers. In this regard read Philippians 4:6, 7, 11-13. Even scientists who hold that a person has a natural inclination toward a certain weight admit that this can be changed. They stress cutting down on high-fat food and increasing physical activity. Interestingly, in many areas a Christian who shares regularly in the door-to-door ministry does much healthful walking and climbing. Paul, too, ‘labored and toiled’ in the ministry.—2 Corinthians 11:26, 27.
    Thus, Jehovah’s Witnesses disapprove of gluttony because of what the Bible says. Whatever their weight, they strive to ‘exercise self-control in all things,’ including eating. This is not primarily because of a cultural judgment about fashion but because they want to live by Bible principles and be active Christians having God’s approval.
     
  4. Upvote
    Evacuated got a reaction from Tennyson Naidoo in Why don't we treat overeating (gluttony) with the same severity as smoking?   
    I don't think our view on this has changed in the last 30 years. (Italics mine)
    Watchtower 2004 1 November 30-31 compared gluttony and drunkenness and made this statement:
    "As with the other “works of the flesh,” a Christian who is widely known for his gluttony and who stubbornly refuses to change his greedy behavior ought to be removed from the congregation.—1 Corinthians 5:11, 13."
    Also, this article seems to address the question raised specifically:
    Questions From Readers (Watchtower 1 May 1986)
    ▪ Are Jehovah’s Witnesses as firm about gluttony among their members as they are about the harmful tobacco habit?
    Jehovah’s Witnesses take a Bible-based stand against tobacco, and they equally accept the Scriptural condemnation of gluttony.
    They believe that smoking violates Bible principles. Smoking involves a nicotine addiction. Further, it is unnatural to inhale smoke. Smoking defiles the body, causes health problems, and has shortened lives that should have been used to God’s praise. Smoking also dangerously pollutes air that others breathe; certainly, that is not neighbor love.—2 Corinthians 7:1; Romans 12:1; Mark 12:33.
    What, though, about gluttonous overeating? Frankly, the Bible condemns gluttony, which is greedy excess in eating, or voracious overeating. An Israelite son who was unrepentantly “a glutton and a drunkard” was to be executed. (Deuteronomy 21:18-21) Proverbs warns against “having companionship with gluttons.” (Proverbs 28:7; 23:20, 21) Gluttony is also wrong since we are told that “greedy persons” will not inherit God’s Kingdom. (1 Corinthians 6:9, 10; compare 1 Peter 4:3; Philippians 3:18, 19.) Christian overseers are to be “self-controlled,” not “unemployed gluttons.” (Titus 1:8, 12) This is so serious that some overseers have been removed because of their uncontrolled eating.
    It must be recognized, however, that determining when gluttony exists is not easy. Eating (in contrast with inhaling tobacco smoke) is natural and proper. Nor is being fat the sole criterion of gluttony; a very thin person might be a glutton. It is not being overweight that the Bible censures but, rather, overeating, which may or may not result in obesity.
    Some people are overweight because of glandular disorders or disease, though Professor Judith Rodin holds that only “5 percent of all cases of obesity are caused primarily by medical problems.” Heredity may incline a person to stockiness. Dr. William Bennett comments: “Lots of fat people maintain their weight by eating about what an average-weight person does . . . They are metabolically different.” Certain scientists even feel that if a fat person eats less, his body lowers its metabolic rate so that he burns calories more slowly. But even if a fat person is not a glutton in the sense of being a voracious eater, he (or she) may need to apply more seriously God’s counsel.
    For example, Christians should cultivate self-control, which applies to eating too. (Galatians 5:22, 23; 2 Peter 1:5-8) The apostle Paul urged the Christian to be like a runner who “exercises self-control in all things.” Paul ‘pummeled his body and led it as a slave that he should not become disapproved.’ (1 Corinthians 9:24-27) A stout person may have reason to ‘pummel his body’ as to how much, what, when, and how he eats.
    Being fat can be dangerous. Reports show that obesity can lead to higher blood pressure and cholesterol levels, adult-onset diabetes, several types of cancer, heart and gallbladder disease, arthritis, and respiratory problems. “A person who is 20 percent overweight faces a death rate one-third higher than average; for those 30 and 50 percent overweight, the rates are 50 and 100 percent higher, respectively.” (The New York Times, February 27, 1985) Similar reports of health problems come from England, Germany, and Italy.
    A Christian truly wants to ‘love Jehovah with his whole heart, soul [or, life], mind, and strength.’ (Mark 12:30) Many, upon studying Christianity, quit smoking to preserve their health and life. Should not Christians be just as concerned that being overweight because of overindulgence might undermine their health and their life that is dedicated to Jehovah?
    Some people eat more when they are sad, frustrated, lonely, or angry. While being a Christian does not wholly prevent such feelings, rather than finding relief in unnecessary eating, the Christian can turn to God and to his brothers. In this regard read Philippians 4:6, 7, 11-13. Even scientists who hold that a person has a natural inclination toward a certain weight admit that this can be changed. They stress cutting down on high-fat food and increasing physical activity. Interestingly, in many areas a Christian who shares regularly in the door-to-door ministry does much healthful walking and climbing. Paul, too, ‘labored and toiled’ in the ministry.—2 Corinthians 11:26, 27.
    Thus, Jehovah’s Witnesses disapprove of gluttony because of what the Bible says. Whatever their weight, they strive to ‘exercise self-control in all things,’ including eating. This is not primarily because of a cultural judgment about fashion but because they want to live by Bible principles and be active Christians having God’s approval.
     
  5. Upvote
    Evacuated got a reaction from Melinda Mills in Why didn’t Jezebel send someone to kill Elijah if she hated his prophecy so much?   
    There was no lack of effort on the part of Jezebel and King Ahab in their attempts to kill Elijah. Likely egged on by the wicked Jezebel, Ahab, the king of Israel and her husband, scoured the land unsuccessfully for Elijah during Jezebel's pogrom which took the lives of many of Jehovah's prophets. 1Ki. 18:10.
    However, the hatred of Jehovah's worshipers was by no means universal at this time. Obadiah, one of the high court officials, protected 100 prophets from the slaughter. 1Ki.18:4. Later, Jehovah informed Elijah that 7000 were still faithfully serving him in Israel. 1Ki.19:18. And during the spectacular showdown between Elijah and the priests of Baal, after Jehovah's terrifying display of power indicating his full backing for Elijah as a prophet, there was no shortage of supporters to carry out Elijah's command to slaughter hundreds of the prophets of Baal. 1Ki.18:40.
    Given the unmistakable evidence of supernatural backing for Elijah, (remember, these people did not necessarily doubt the existence of Jehovah, they just saw him as another god like their own), his own display of courage in carrying out his duties as a prophet, and the uncertainty of support from Israelites, I would have expected Jezebel to  tread very carefully and with cunning in her scheme to trap Elijah. This she did in sending a messenger with a chilling threat. 1Ki.19:2. Who knows what intent she had here (maybe to panic Elijah into a more vulnerable situation), or what influence Jehovah had in the matter to protect Elijah who became very low spiritually in the face of this opposition. Anyway, her threat was baseless as Elijah was still alive and on the run in the wilderness well after the expiry of her one day execution deadline.
    The situation and her crafty cunning reminds me of the evil strategy of the chief priests in connection with their trapping of Jesus. Lu.22:2-6.
  6. Upvote
    Evacuated got a reaction from JAMMY in Why is it ok for witnesses to go to Church backed hospitals?   
    Simple answer to the original question is : choice of a medical care provider is entirely a matter of personal decision and conscience.
    Separation from Babylon the Great means separating from it's spiritual corruption and false religious teachings. The fact that religious organisations such as those  mentioned have sought to direct their efforts into social works rather than the preaching the good news of the kingdom is a matter for their accountability of their actions to God.
    I can accept that a person may feel uneasy about participating in something that might be viewed as a propaganda exercise for false religion, perhaps included in the "powerful works" described at Matt 7:22. They might feel that paying for medical services would be an indirect way of supporting a false religious organisation. That person might feel better about medical care provided by a completely secular organisation. They are at liberty to choose and should not be criticized. However, would they then seek to vet the religious persuasion of individual medical practitioners before accepting care from them? That might be viewed by some as unreasonable.
    For me, Jesus words at John 17:15-16 come to mind. We do have a role in this world ruled by the "wicked one" which is why we can be in it, but no part of it at the same time. We pay our taxes for social services rendered by governmental agencies despite the fact they are soon to be replaced by Jehovah's kingdom in the hands of Christ Jesus. This does not mean we support them or become a part of them by doing so. The current structure of things, which includes medical services provided by "religious" organisations permitted, and regulated, by current governmental agencies, for me constitutes a part of the "arrangement of God" (Rom.13:2) and serves as God's minister to me for my good. (Rom 13:4).
    So, my conscience would not be offended by getting medical care from one of the listed agencies as long as they respected my position as one of Jehovah's Witnesses with regard to non-blood medical management and freedom of speech. Neither would I view  it as as hypocritical or contradictory if another one of Jehovah's Witnesses did so.
    But then, that's me..................
  7. Upvote
    Evacuated got a reaction from lentaylor71 in Are the anointed truly granted immortality when resurrected?   
    Probably for @Jay Witness to respond on this perceived anomaly.
    However, April 1 1984 Watchtower discussed this question on pages 30-31:
    ▪ What is the difference between immortality and everlasting life?
    Endless life will be enjoyed both by anointed ones receiving spirit life in heaven and by humans whom God declares righteous for life on the Paradise earth. So if you think about the outcome, immortality in heaven and everlasting life on earth result in basically the same thing—living forever. There are, though, some comments about immortality that can be made.
    The Greek word translated “immortality” (athanasia) is formed from the negative a and from thanatos, meaning “death.” Immortality thus has the basic sense of ‘without death,’ or deathlessness. Understandably, Jehovah is the absolute source of all life and is immortal. (Psalm 36:9; 90:1, 2) This is confirmed by the fact that his glorified Son, who now “is the reflection of [God’s] glory and the exact representation of his very being,” is described as “the King of those [men] who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords, the one alone having immortality.” (Hebrews 1:3; 1 Timothy 6:15, 16) No creature can take Jesus’ life as an immortal, which makes him different from humans or spirits that can die. Further, we read: “Now that [Christ] has been raised up from the dead, [he] dies no more; death is master over him no more.”—Romans 6:9.
    Though immortality is, in a sense, everlasting life, immortality apparently implies more than that its possessor will live forever. It seems to indicate a particular quality of life, and it is linked with incorruption. The Bible says about spirit-anointed Christians who receive the heavenly reward: “This which is corruptible [in its human body] must put on incorruption, and this which is mortal must put on immortality. But when this which is corruptible puts on incorruption and this which is mortal puts on immortality, then the saying will take place that is written: ‘Death is swallowed up forever.’”—1 Corinthians 15:53, 54.
    Still, the Bible does not provide much detail about the quality of life termed immortality. We do know that mortal humans—even perfect humans having the prospect of endless life on earth—must eat and drink to maintain life, or they die and their bodies experience corruption. (Genesis 2:9, 15, 16) No doubt immortality involves a quality of life that does not need to be sustained like that. Thus it could be said that all who become immortal are not subject to death or that ‘death is master over them no more.’ That would harmonize, too, with their receiving incorruptibility, indicating that their spirit body or organism is inherently beyond decay, ruin or corruption. (Compare 2 Corinthians 5:1; Revelation 20:6.) In these ways a difference might be seen between immortality and everlasting human life.
    Jehovah God is the perfect Judge who rewards anointed ones with immortality. When he in his boundless wisdom and insight determines such ones to be completely tested and unquestionably qualified for immortality, we can trust that they will forever be faithful. All whom Jehovah judges worthy of endless life, whether as immortal spirits or as perfect humans, will be able to worship him forever. Thus, in the final analysis, both everlasting human life and immortality in heaven result in endless life.—John 17:3.
     
  8. Upvote
    Evacuated got a reaction from JW Insider in Could Jehovah choose an 8 year old child to be one of the "anointed"?   
    Yes, in answer to your question. And if their dedication and baptism was accepted, what would be the basis for dissuading them? As we recently discussed in the Watchtower, the only difference between anointed and others is their calling. So, apart from taking the emblems, their behaviour should be no different from any other dedicated 8 year old. And, as they would continue subject to their parents until adulthood, the congregation would support them as it would any other family.
    And if that 8 year old should change their viewpoint later, what of it? As long as they wished to serve Jehovah faithfully, they would be supported by family and the congregation whatever their destiny.
    I can't help but be reminded of the spirit of Gamaliel's words (Acts 5:39) in many of these discussions about who is and isn't anointed.
  9. Upvote
    Evacuated got a reaction from JW Insider in How about an "Expose Wrongdoing / Hypocrisy" category on here?   
    Enhancing the JW paparazzi aspect eh? Hmm.
    Pretty subjective. And there might be a problem with eye-rafters. Pictures may speak a thousand words, but maybe not always those spoken by the persons in them.
  10. Upvote
    Evacuated got a reaction from Queen Esther in Could Jehovah choose an 8 year old child to be one of the "anointed"?   
    Yes, in answer to your question. And if their dedication and baptism was accepted, what would be the basis for dissuading them? As we recently discussed in the Watchtower, the only difference between anointed and others is their calling. So, apart from taking the emblems, their behaviour should be no different from any other dedicated 8 year old. And, as they would continue subject to their parents until adulthood, the congregation would support them as it would any other family.
    And if that 8 year old should change their viewpoint later, what of it? As long as they wished to serve Jehovah faithfully, they would be supported by family and the congregation whatever their destiny.
    I can't help but be reminded of the spirit of Gamaliel's words (Acts 5:39) in many of these discussions about who is and isn't anointed.
  11. Upvote
    Evacuated reacted to The Librarian in The 'Anointed'   
  12. Upvote
    Evacuated reacted to The Librarian in The 'Anointed'   
  13. Upvote
    Evacuated reacted to The Librarian in The 'Anointed'   
  14. Upvote
    Evacuated reacted to The Librarian in The 'Anointed'   
  15. Upvote
    Evacuated reacted to The Librarian in The 'Anointed'   
  16. Upvote
    Evacuated got a reaction from Melinda Mills in Has the 1000 years of Kingdom Rule started?   
    What Does the Bible Really Teach  commented on Rev. 20:4: 
    "After Armageddon, Satan and his demons will be imprisoned in an abyss for a thousand years. During that time, the 144,000 heavenly joint heirs will be judges and will rule “as kings with the Christ for 1,000 years.” " p214 para 1.
    That places the 1000 year, Satan-free period still in the future.
  17. Upvote
    Evacuated got a reaction from Anna in Why won't they announce the reason for disfellowshipping or disassociation?   
    It is not possible to support these statements with fact.
    Yes to both. However, with regard to following scripture, in the spirit of Apollos. Acts 18:24-28.
    Where is the scriptural proof of a requirement to indiscriminately publicize the reason for disfellowshipping or dissasociation?
    Have your elders used 2Tim.2:23 or Titus 3:9 to support their dislike for your questions? Have they attempted to provide answers to them?. I suspect even if they have, you have not been satisfied, as your many posts in this forum seem to indicate.
    Why not apply the principle in Ps.4:4? It's all about attitude really. (Compare Ph. 3:15, the principle, not the immediate subject matter).
    I recommend the advice provided by JW Insider quoted below:
    I would also add that the work of preaching the good news of Jehovah's established kingdom in the hands of His anointed king, Christ Jesus, should be the main focus of our efforts at this time. I would add that to the list of activities in JW Insider's comment above.
    For many honest-hearted ones, getting to know Jehovah and his son Jesus, learning about the ransom, the kingdom, the truth about life, death, sin, getting free from the deceptive domination of Satan in their lives, and coming into association with the worldwide congregation of Jehovah's people, is the best thing thing that could ever happen to them. And, if media reports are anything to go by, it appears that there are greater opportunities in your country to share the good news of the kingdom than many others of us have at this time.
    I do hope you can resolve your difficulties, if not your questions.
    Do you have this saying?
    Ας μην καίμε τα χλωρά μαζί με τα ξερά. 

  18. Upvote
    Evacuated got a reaction from Melinda Mills in REINSTATEMENT No3   
    This is getting contentious unnecessarily. I also feel that historical anecdotes are of limited use due to scarcity of background, circumstance and context. 
    I am going to post a question to deal specifically with one of the important issues that comes out of this.
  19. Upvote
    Evacuated reacted to Melinda Mills in REINSTATEMENT No3   
    Unwarranted acts often produce consequences that can't be fixed satisfactorily in this system. However, both sides can be humble and come to an agreement. Love conquer all things.
  20. Upvote
    Evacuated got a reaction from Melinda Mills in Is hearing voices the demons?   
    I have difficulty following the logic in John Houston's answer, probably he has previous answers sorted by rating rather than date.
    I would recommend the answer given by Melinda Mills.
    Please get some reliable medical advice if available, and especially if you haven't done so since 2011. Luke 5:31.
  21. Upvote
    Evacuated reacted to Melinda Mills in Is hearing voices the demons?   
    *** w03 5/1 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***
    Questions From Readers
    If a Christian hears voices, does that necessarily mean that he is under demon attack?
    No. While demons have been reported to manifest themselves in that way, many individuals who hear voices or experience other inexplicable, disturbing sensations have learned upon investigation that they have a medical problem.
    Even in the first century, it was apparently recognized that demon attacks and physical conditions sometimes produce similar effects. At Matthew 17:14-18, we read of a young boy who was healed by Jesus. Although the young boy had manifested severe epileptic symptoms, his suffering was actually caused by a demon. However, on an earlier occasion when crowds of suffering people were brought to Jesus for healing, these included some who were “demon-possessed and epileptic.” (Matthew 4:24) Evidently, it was recognized that some epileptics were not demon possessed. Their problems were physical.
    It is reported that some who suffer from schizophrenia, a disease often treatable with medication, hear voices or experience other symptoms that could appear to be something uncanny. Other physical conditions may also cause mental confusion that some could mistakenly think is caused by demons. Hence, while an individual who reports hearing voices or who has other disturbing sensations may not want to discount demon harassment, he should definitely be encouraged to consider investigating whether there is a physical explanation for what he is experiencing.
    [Footnote]
    See “Taking the Mystery out of Mental Illness,” in the September 8, 1986, Awake!, companion magazine of The Watchtower.
    (Matthew 17:14-21) 14 When they came toward the crowd, a man approached him, knelt down to him, and said: 15 “Lord, have mercy on my son, because he is an epileptic and is ill. He falls often into the fire and often into the water. 16 I brought him to your disciples, but they could not cure him.” 17 In reply Jesus said: “O faithless and twisted generation, how long must I continue with you? How long must I put up with you? Bring him here to me.” 18 Then Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of him, and the boy was cured from that hour. 19 Then the disciples came to Jesus privately and said: “Why could we not expel it?” 20 He said to them: “Because of your little faith. For truly I say to you, if you have faith the size of a mustard grain, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move, and nothing will be impossible for you.” 21 ——
     
  22. Upvote
    Evacuated got a reaction from gfnslave in Is it a lie when the Watchtower Society teaches that Jesus and the disciples ate the unleavened bread when in fact that bread was leavened?   
    Can't find myself saying that anywhere.
     
    Now this is interesting. "Honestly now... you really don't take money for what you do?"  
    In the early 1980s, when I was pioneering in a predominantly Greek Cypriot populated area, I (and many other witnesses) had exactly the same words directed at us a number of times!. Many of the Greek Cypriot men particularly were convinced we were paid for preaching and made money from getting converts. Later, some who became witnesses revealed that they were told this by the priests in their church who objected to our preaching work in "their" community.
    The inference is as baseless now as it was then.
     
    Not sure what point is made here, but my impression is that the dipped bread identified Judas as the traitor. Other pieces of bread shared by Jesus were likely undipped.
     
    This appears to be out of context and only a partial, condensed quote, so I am not clear on the purpose of its inclusion.
    Anyway, before this thread gets too far from the original question.
    It seems that the debate on the nature of the bread and the timing of this meal is pretty old. Alfred Edersheim appears to refer to it as ongoing in his book, Jesus the Messiah, first published in 1883 (p481-482 in the 13th impression).
    I am satisfied for now with the points made in  w73 3/15 p.175 - Is the Date for Celebrating Passover Important to Christians? and the article Preparation -   Insight on the Scriptures Vol 2 p.676 which I quoted in earlier posts. These provide sufficient information for me so far to conclude that Jesus used unleavened bread as an emblem in his instituting of the Lord's evening meal, directly after the Passover meal on Nisan 14, and that his followers today are correct in following his example and instruction on this matter. For me, the original question, as raised, is sufficiently resolved, the answer, basically, being... No!
    So I will withdraw from the thread for now, although I will note any further substantiated contributions to the discussion.
  23. Upvote
    Evacuated reacted to The Librarian in Geoffrey Jackson   
    Take away the word beautiful and his statement would still be true. You are putting his emphasis on a certain word. What if his emphasis was on the word "wife" in the same sentence? The meaning would be different.
    Let's give him the benefit of the doubt and say he is thankful for his wife. With the added plus that she is "beautiful". ;-)
     
  24. Upvote
    Evacuated got a reaction from Giannis Diamantis in REINSTATEMENT No2   
    You have used James 5:14 to answer your own question
  25. Upvote
    Evacuated got a reaction from Ann O'Maly in MEMORIAL VS PASSOVER   
    Amendment was posted to that quote:
    Adjustment in italics. Thanks Ann O'Maly
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