MEMORIAL VS PASSOVER

[Γιαννης Διαμαντιδης]

Eoin Joyce in a previous answer said that  "Seems the practice (since the 4th Century(???)) of adding an extra month, Adar1, every so often to realign the Jewish lunar calendar with the solar calendar puts the modern Jewish calendar out of sync with our Memorial date". If the Watchtower don't want to add a month on 2016 in order to coincide with the Jewish calendar how is it possible the memorial of 2017 ( April 11 ) to coincide this time with the Jewish calendar of 2017 ( April 10 ) ? 

[Γιαννης Διαμαντιδης]

Eoin Joyce in a previous answer said that  "Seems the practice (since the 4th Century(???)) of adding an extra month, Adar1, every so often to realign the Jewish lunar calendar with the solar calendar puts the modern Jewish calendar out of sync with our Memorial date". If the Watchtower don't want to add a month on 2016 in order NOT to coincide with the Jewish calendar how is it possible the memorial of 2017 ( April 11 ) to coincide this time with the Jewish calendar of 2017 ( April 10 ) ? 

[Γιαννης Διαμαντιδης]

I want to say that if we don't want to accept the added month that Jewish people use, that will put us always one or more months behind Jewish calendar, and it is impossible for the two celebrations ever to coincide. I mean there is a practical reason for putting an extra month and we must accept that ! Or you say that Jewish people are not clever enough for doing this?

[Evacuated]

Amendment was posted to that quote:

On 3/7/2016 at 12:31, Eoin Joyce said:

Seems the practice (apparently formalised since the 4th Century) of adding an extra month, Adar1, every so often to realign the Jewish lunar calendar with the solar calendar puts the modern Jewish calendar out of sync with our Memorial date, particularly in 2016.

 

 

Adjustment in italics. Thanks Ann O'Maly

[Ann O'Maly]

17 hours ago, Γιαννης Διαμαντιδης said:

I want to say that if we don't want to accept the added month that Jewish people use, that will put us always one or more months behind Jewish calendar, and it is impossible for the two celebrations ever to coincide. I mean there is a practical reason for putting an extra month and we must accept that ! Or you say that Jewish people are not clever enough for doing this?

Don't forget that the Jews are counting lunar months (29 or 30 days long each month). JWs are counting Gregorian calendar months (28/29 or 30 or 31 days long) and just pay attention to the lunar cycle for one month only - for calculating their equivalent of Nisan 14. The timing of the (approximate) full moon after the spring equinox serves to offset any major drift between the JW method and the Jewish one - about a month's difference at worst. 

[Ann O'Maly]

Giannis has piqued my curiosity about the 2017 Passover. Why April 10? By my reckoning, that would be Nisan 13. Hmm.

[JW Insider]

The 2017 Memorial is on April 11 not 10th. This is another year when our Nisan 14 is the Jewish Nisan 15. 

See http://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/?year=2017&country=34

Don't know why chabad.org appears to be off by a day, perhaps it's not set for the time in Israel/Jerusalem.

[JW Insider]

24 minutes ago, Ann O'Maly said:

Giannis has piqued my curiosity about the 2017 Passover. Why April 10? By my reckoning, that would be Nisan 13. Hmm.

I see it now. They are listing the first full day, not starting from the evening before which would make our date on the equivalent of the start of Nisan 13. Probably the difference is because of the leap day adjustment so that Passover doesn't start on one of the three "forbidden" days of the week.

[Ann O'Maly]

Yes, the Memorial is on April 11, 2017, but Passover is listed by multiple sources as beginning sunset April 10, which I can't find a reason for if the new crescent is first visible in Jerusalem on March 29.

[Ann O'Maly]

2 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

I see it now. They are listing the first full day, not starting from the evening before which would make our date on the equivalent of the start of Nisan 13. Probably the difference is because of the leap day adjustment so that Passover doesn't start on one of the three "forbidden" days of the week.

No, the first full Passover day is April 11.

There must be something really basic I'm overlooking ...

 

[JW Insider]

5 minutes ago, Ann O'Maly said:

Yes, the Memorial is on April 11, 2017, but Passover is listed by multiple sources as beginning sunset April 10, which I can't find a reason for if the new crescent is first visible in Jerusalem on March 29.

I agree. I still suspect there had to be a leap day adjustment especially since the "empty" moon was astronomically tied to March 28, 2017 in Jerusalem, so there is no way the first crescent would not be seen by March 29th. The full moon is on April 11th.

Note the article on wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Days_of_week_on_Hebrew_calendar

Finally, in a regular year the month of Adar has 29 days, while in a leap year Adar I of 30 days is added before the regular Adar, which becomes Adar II of 29 days. The result is that the period from 1 Tevet to 29 Cheshvan is fixed, except that in a leap year Adar one of 30 days is added; and all adjustments are made using 30 Cheshvan and/or 30 Kislev.

The period from 1 Adar (or Adar II, in leap years) to 29 Cheshvan contains all of the festivals specified in the Bible - Purim(14 Adar), Pesach (15 Nisan), Shavuot (6 Sivan), Rosh Hashanah (1 Tishrei), Yom Kippur (10 Tishrei), Sukkot (15 Tishrei), and Shemini Atzeret (22 Tishrei). This period is fixed, during which no adjustments are made.

The result is that all dates from 1 Nisan through 29 (or 30) Cheshvan can each fall on one of four days of the week. Dates during Kislev can fall on any of six days of the week; during Tevet and Shevat, five days; and dates during Adar (or Adar I and II, in leap years) can each fall on one of four days of the week.

 

 

[Giannis Diamantis]

17 hours ago, Ann O'Maly said:

Don't forget that the Jews are counting lunar months (29 or 30 days long each month). JWs are counting Gregorian calendar months (28/29 or 30 or 31 days long) and just pay attention to the lunar cycle for one month only - for calculating their equivalent of Nisan 14. The timing of the (approximate) full moon after the spring equinox serves to offset any major drift between the JW method and the Jewish one - about a month's difference at worst. 

 

16 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I see it now. They are listing the first full day, not starting from the evening before which would make our date on the equivalent of the start of Nisan 13. Probably the difference is because of the leap day adjustment so that Passover doesn't start on one of the three "forbidden" days of the week.

Thanks a lot. Now I understand !