Outta Here

Quite so. And the understanding we have now, as proclaimed by the GB of Jehovah's Witnesses and supported by their application of Scripture, would appear to me to bear this out. The various perspectives of those contributing to the discussion on this matter really would not exist at all if it were not for these proclamations at this time. The historical "curios" of understanding that have led people who have stuck with the organisation to this point of time are in the public domain, as are similar "artifacts" of all areas of human endeavour. Whether revered as trailblazing milestones in the search for truth, or ridiculed as crank-minded curios for the amusement of cynics, the body of historical thinking on the part of Jehovah's Witnesses serves really only one purpose. The 1st Century view of the apostle Paul on the effect of various expressions of opinion on Christianty is as valid today as it was at the the time it was written: "With what result? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is being proclaimed, and I rejoice over this. In fact, I will also keep on rejoicing," Phillippians 1:18

@JOHN BUTLERmight give you some tips. You seem to have something in common.

Not of K Halls. Of people who love respond to the good news. Eventually. they will no longer come you know.... We have brothers who live 2 minutes from the KH and cannot get there. No one misses out where I come from. They can hear and watch on line and association is laid on for them. Brothers provide transport, not congregations. The important thing is for love to abound in your heart, and to be evident in deed and truth. You will not notice the lack in others if that is the case.What has happened to you?

Or maybe.....not Not really, although the old light is a lot newer than the very old light that you quoted..................

Wasted resource. Mostly empty. etc,etc,etc. .Fill 'em, share 'em, or shut 'em.....what's the problem? These are not churches. Anyone can have a minibus? Where on earth do you live?? True Christians travel as far as it takes to get to meetings...and help others to get there too. Where on earth do you live??

"Better use of dedicated funds" is a phrase I hear frequently. Isn't that more appropriate? "Saving" money implies hoarding it up somewhere. I think we are more in the business of using resources aren't we?. Compare Matt.25:24-27 😊

Or technology per se? The scripture spoke of a time when men who were delegated to care for mundane tasks required spiritual and secular qualifications in view of the context of their work. This required appropriate selection. Similarly today, secular background is required to implement technical solutions for spiritual tasks effectively. The acquisition of secular skills is sometimes erroneously viewed as antithetical to spiritual endeavour. Therefore an important and enlightened balance needs to be achieved and maintained to avoid waste. This of course will have to incorporate the principles of Ex.35:30-35. Quite a challenge, but apparently met is my observation.

This viewpoint is personal and not only unreasonable, but unscriptural. In fact, it is also out of line with Jehovah's Witnesses thinking by at least 29 years. As Melinda above said, do your own research in the theocratic literature, and avoid some of the clumsy blundering presented by cleverdicks more interested in their own opinions *** g90 9/8 p. 23 Suicides—A Resurrection? *** Stunned friends of a suicide victim may thus take comfort in knowing that “Jehovah has shown mercy to those fearing him. For he himself well knows the formation of us, remembering that we are dust.” (Psalm 103:10-14) Only God can fully understand the role of mental sickness, extreme stress, even genetic defects, in a “suicidal crisis,” which, the National Observer noted, “is not a lifetime characteristic [but] often a matter only of minutes or of hours.”—See Ecclesiastes 7:7. Granted, one who takes his own life deprives himself of the opportunity to repent of his self-murder. But who can say whether one driven to suicide might have had a change of heart had his fatal attempt failed? Some notorious murderers have, in fact, changed and earned God’s forgiveness during their lifetime.—2 Kings 21:16; 2 Chronicles 33:12, 13. Thus, Jehovah, having paid “a ransom in exchange for many,” is within his right to extend mercy, even to some self-murderers, by resurrecting them and giving them the precious opportunity to “repent and turn to God by doing works that befit repentance.”—Matthew 20:28; Acts 26:20. *** g00 2/22 pp. 6-7 Given a Desire to Live *** Yet, never forget that Jehovah God raises up the dead and that this might well include our loved ones who because of depression, mental illness, or despair took their own lives.—See “The Bible’s Viewpoint: Suicides—A Resurrection?” in Awake! of September 8, 1990, pages 22-3. While suicide cannot be justified, it is comforting to remember that the future prospects of our loved ones rest with a God who fully understands that weaknesses and frailties could push one to such desperate action. The Bible says of Jehovah: “As the heavens are higher than the earth, his loving-kindness is superior toward those fearing him. As far off as the sunrise is from the sunset, so far off from us he has put our transgressions. As a father shows mercy to his sons, Jehovah has shown mercy to those fearing him. For he himself well knows the formation of us, remembering that we are dust.”—Psalm 103:11-14.

Too general a statement and not necessarily true. A personal friend of mine who was a highly talented musician developed Alzheimers. He soon became unable remember any words to songs, then to differentiate chords and how to play instruments. This was soon followed by an aversion to music altogether, although he will communicate in song. There is a difference between skill and talent. Allan Boyle showed me round the IT workshop when I visited Brooklyn in 1980. I have to admit it was rather like visiting a computer graveyard with electronic carcasses all over the place. It must be quite a challenge to apply Acts 6:3 in a modern, technical setting. But, somebody appears to have got something right.

All do, specifically or otherwise, as soon as they speak or write about God.

I like the description at 2Tim.2:17: "their word will spread like gangrene" (Gk γάγγραινα: gangraina). Doesn't seem to present any translation difficulty?

The original post states that "JW.org Says "Apostates are Mentally Diseased." Whilst true, what is ommitted is that JW.org is reflecting the Bible's view. Apart from what has already been quoted, Peter makes reference to that early apostate Balaam who sought to attack God's people. He says that when Balaam was hindered in his attempt to stumble worshippers of Jehovah by a "voiceless beast of burden", the effect was to hinder "the prophet's mad course" 2Pet.2:16. In using the Greek word "paraphronia" Peter indicates that Balaam was engaged in an act of madness or insanity and manifesting a symptom of mental disorder. A related word, "anoia" is used to describe the "sensless rage" of the Pharisees at Jesus' supposed violation of their Sabbath Laws (Luke 16:11), and also by Paul when actually describing the activity of those other ancient opposers of Jehovah's people, Jannes and Jambres. He spoke of them being completely "corrupted in mind" and that this corruption was plainly evident in the "folly" (anoia) of their action against Moses. (2Tim.3:9). By the same token, modern day apostates exhibit they are "corrupted in mind", clearly exhibiting "folly" along with "senseless rage" and manifestly engaged in a "mad course". There is a PC language argument these days for avoiding the use of the word "disease" in connection with mental disorder, even the term "mental illness" is being questioned. This is due to the innapropriate reactions of people to such terms. Over time, terms may gather an emotive potential which may provoke an inappropriate response in many. This reactive tendency is exploited by propagandists of which Christian apostates are a sub-division. However, no amount of feel-good euphemism can disguise the fact that Christian apostasy is abhorrent, contagious, and death dealing, whatever metaphor is used to describe it. Given the facts, it is also a mainfestation of insanity or madness. Many translators seem to agree: 2Pet.2:16: New International Version But he was rebuked for his wrongdoing by a donkey--an animal without speech--who spoke with a human voice and restrained the prophet's madness. New Living Translation But Balaam was stopped from his mad course when his donkey rebuked him with a human voice. English Standard Version but was rebuked for his own transgression; a speechless donkey spoke with human voice and restrained the prophet’s madness. Berean Study Bible But he was rebuked for his transgression by a donkey, otherwise without speech, that spoke with a man’s voice and restrained the prophet’s madness. Berean Literal Bible But he had reproof for his own transgression by a mute donkey; having spoken in a man's voice, it restrained the madness of the prophet. New American Standard Bible but he received a rebuke for his own transgression, for a mute donkey, speaking with a voice of a man, restrained the madness of the prophet. New King James Version but he was rebuked for his iniquity: a dumb donkey speaking with a man’s voice restrained the madness of the prophet. King James Bible But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet. Christian Standard Bible but received a rebuke for his lawlessness: A speechless donkey spoke with a human voice and restrained the prophet's madness. Contemporary English Version But a donkey corrected him for this evil deed. It spoke to him with a human voice and made him stop his foolishness. Good News Translation and was rebuked for his sin. His donkey spoke with a human voice and stopped the prophet's insane action. Holman Christian Standard Bible but received a rebuke for his transgression: A donkey that could not talk spoke with a human voice and restrained the prophet's irrationality. International Standard Version But he was rebuked for his offense. A donkey that normally cannot talk spoke with a human voice and restrained the prophet's insanity. NET Bible yet was rebuked for his own transgression (a dumb donkey, speaking with a human voice, restrained the prophet's madness). New Heart English Bible but he was rebuked for his own disobedience. A mute donkey spoke with a man's voice and stopped the madness of the prophet. Aramaic Bible in Plain English But the reproof of his violation was a dumb donkey which spoke with the voice of men, restraining the madness of the Prophet. GOD'S WORD® Translation But he was convicted for his evil. A donkey, which normally can't talk, spoke with a human voice and wouldn't allow the prophet to continue his insanity. New American Standard 1977 but he received a rebuke for his own transgression; for a dumb donkey, speaking with a voice of a man, restrained the madness of the prophet. Jubilee Bible 2000 and was rebuked for his iniquity; a dumb animal accustomed to a yoke (upon which he was seated), speaking with man's voice, hindered the madness of the prophet. King James 2000 Bible But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb donkey speaking with man's voice restrained the madness of the prophet. American King James Version But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbade the madness of the prophet. American Standard Version but he was rebuked for his own transgression: a dumb ass spake with man's voice and stayed the madness of the prophet. Douay-Rheims Bible But had a check of his madness, the dumb beast used to the yoke, which speaking with man's voice, forbade the folly of the prophet. Darby Bible Translation but had reproof of his own wickedness -- [the] dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the folly of the prophet. English Revised Version but he was rebuked for his own transgression: a dumb ass spake with man's voice and stayed the madness of the prophet. Webster's Bible Translation But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice, forbad the madness of the prophet. Weymouth New Testament But he was rebuked for his transgression: a dumb ass spoke with a human voice and checked the madness of the Prophet. World English Bible but he was rebuked for his own disobedience. A mute donkey spoke with a man's voice and stopped the madness of the prophet. Young's Literal Translation and had a rebuke of his own iniquity -- a dumb ass, in man's voice having spoken, did forbid the madness of the prophet.

My question would be then: Can we count our time spent in trying to get Siri, and Alexa, for that matter, and any other voice assistant out there, to give correct answers to Bible Questions? (I know only 1 peson can count the Return Visit and Bible Study). P.S. I discontinued the study with my Tom Tom! It was just unproductive. It is not spiritually minded. But I am getting somewhere with my telephone anwering machine!

Somebody got something wrong there! In fact, it looks like he held the baptism candidate under a bit too long!!

I can understand this. It's a bit like the meat offered to idols. Nothing wrong with the meat, but some having weak consciences (which is as much about feelings as knowledge) might have been enticed to worship, or are just plain offended that someone else seemed to be doing it. "If others have doubt...Leave it out" works for me. I don't like these cheesy dollies, but that is just a personal thing. "Holy" baby pictures never meant anything to me other than a slight nausea, even when I was being forced up as a Roman Catholic. So models of Sophia and the doting affection some seem to have for such things is pretty crass to me, but there's no accounting for culture. Look at those creepy manga or anime bug-eyed creatures, and the wierd paintings that Margaret Keane did. Some people go mad about this stuff. I just feel slightly air-sick. But I don't mind the Caleb and Sophia videos. They are a bit Toy Story, but they have a moral punch that is quite effective. Don't like the cardboard cut outs and photo shoot stuff and merchandise much.... BUT....worship them? or feel anything other than pity for their outsize heads? Not really...............But I have always been suspicious of those fat baby cherub things they have in religious pictures.....................