8 hours ago, Ann O'Maly said:

And the question asked at the ARC remains a good one: 

"Why is it necessary, when
someone feels that they can no longer abide the
organisation and has to disassociate - why is it necessary
to shun them? Why can't they keep having social contact
with those people who happen to remain in the organisation?"

The reason is quite simple, ... the consolidation of  ecclesiastical POWER.

Can you imagine Jesus, who ate with sinners and tax collectors ( who had a reputation for corrupt collections to line their own pockets, as well as brutality in their methods), treating someone who was baptized at 10 years of age who is a victim of child sexual abuse having to defend himself to Jesus?  Or, having been brutalized by the inquisitional Elders ( ... in the nicest possible way ...), NEVER receiving Justice from those with the very BEST of intentions .. but who have no training  in this area, and who in fact are clueless incompetents ... being disfellowshipped, and shunned, and banished .... by Jesus?

I cannot.

The reason is quite simple, ... the consolidation and enforcement of  ecclesiastical POWER.

Once ANY religion reaches a certain size, and has accumulated buildings, assets, a steady stream of LOTS of money .. greed takes over, and they will pervert Justice to maintain possession of their ecclesiastical power and therefore their money, stuff, and high profile jobs.'

Except for the Apostles ... all church leadership is SELF APPOINTED ... and they LIKE THEIR JOBS!

Take for example, Governing Body Member Bro. Samuel Herd ... he told how he was a poor gardener for some rich woman, and maintained her lawn and grounds at pitiful pay ... and he resented being treated so shabbily for such hard work.  NOW he lives in a magnificent complex, is highly respected,... even adored in actual practice as a GB member ... wears the best clothes... has not missed any meals, has all his travel and all other expenses paid.

As best they can manage it, so do Priests, Ministers of Christendom, and even Shamans,  Witch Doctors, and criminally oriented Televangelists

.Except for the Apostles ... all church leadership is SELF APPOINTED ... and they LIKE THEIR JOBS!

When Governing Body Member Ray Franz got sick and left Bethel to go home and recuperate, he got $10,000 severance pay ... a pitifully small transitional allowance for a lifetime of serving the Society's interests ,,, and certainly no "Golden Parachute". ... but if you are in a lower "rank" you get NOTHING to get back into "civilian" life, as the 2015 October Meltdown and layoff of 83,000 Bethelites and Special Pioneers proved.

"Thank you for your years of sacrifice and service .... here is a map to the door, please be out by 5PM tomorrow..."

FEAR is one of the BEST methods of  consolidation of  ecclesiastical POWER.. and if you can instill FEAR of arbitrary and capricious treatment ... and MAKE THAT THE STANDARD ... then your position of "Boss" is assured.

This is NOTHING NEW ... this is what ALWAYS happens ... and in the history of the world, there has NEVER been any exceptions ... except Jesus Christ ... who had no place to lay his head, and to the best of knowledge, did not even have a change of clothes, and who talked and ate with people of HIS SAME RELIGION (at the time) who were universally recognized by the Pharisees .. the Shamans and Witch Doctors of his time ...  as despicable.

.We shun people today because it is NECESSARY for the consolidation of  ecclesiastical POWER, by those who have self appointed themselves to positions of ULTIMATE Earthly authority,

If you generate ENOUGH FEAR .. people will STOP asking questions .. and will learn to LOVE the "Big Brothers", as a matter of personal survival.

In  an article in the 1947 AWAKE! this principle was clearly understood, as a second World War made MANY issues concerning tyranny crystal clear ... for a while.

I like my fantasy story better than yours. 

Mine is OBVIOUSLY a fantasy story.

Yours has NO FACTS to take it out of the Fantasy category.

Any story has to be FACT CHECKED to be believable ... except for those with marshmallows for brains ... then you do NOT have to know "Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How Much".

THEN SpongeBob Squarepants or Casper the "Friendly" Ghost will ALSO be acceptable.

Remember ... MOST people in general, and most Witnesses in general do NOT have ANY training to determine the difference between fantasy and reality.   If WE do .. and the ability to even get to this site is a presumption of competence ... we have a MORAL OBLIGATION to teach the Brotherhood how to be good "Bereans" ... and INSIST on it!

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Money ALWAYS tells the truth!

If you want to know WHY things ... ANYTHINGS ... happen ...

FOLLOW THE MONEY!

It will lead you to the truth of WHY!

Nothing like getting beat up over and over by people who remember ... it takes a hundred years or more for ONE generation to completely die out, and that remembrance  to be lost ... with the possible exception of Mr. Google.

Wow:

You know Witnessing is tough when you have to put towels under your feet to keep them from freezing to the ground!

From the News source for Babylon the Great ... "The Babylon Bee", January 31, 2017

Local Man Boldly Engages Mormons At Door By Pretending Not To Be Home

FORT WAYNE, IN—Stating he was attempting to defend the faith that was “once for all delivered to the saints,” local believer Jared Wells recently pretended he was not at home as a pair of friendly Mormon missionaries knocked on his door, sources confirmed Tuesday.

“We need to contend for the faith when Mormon missionaries spread their false gospel in our neighborhoods, and the very best way to do that is to hunker down until they move on down the street,” he added, before telling reporters in his home to keep their voices down.

Wells also provided some practical pointers for engaging with LDS missionaries.

“Turn off the lights when you see them knocking on your neighbor’s door, so it’ll already look like you’re not at home when they walk up your driveway. And when they go on to the next house, make sure to stay hidden for a good 20-30 minutes, until you’re sure they’re no longer on your block.”

“Don’t slip up and go check your mail while they might still be nearby,” he added.

According to Wells, those who feel called to engage Mormons may even consider getting a “No Soliciting” sign, or a very loud, angry-looking dog.

At publishing time, the evangelist was frantically telling reporters to “duck behind the couch” as a pair of Jehovah’s Witnesses came up his home’s front walkway.

I hate it when something comes to a screeching halt, don't you?

Of course, in the case of a loaded concrete mixer truck going 78 miles per hour, jumping a median strip, flipping through the air, and skidding along the asphalt in sprays of sparks and screeching tortured metal ripping the mixer apart, and stopping inches from your fear petrified body   .. it's a GOOD THING!

So, were the Witnesses Don Ossewaarde and his wife Ruth given a "ticket", incarcerated in a local jail or prison, or shot in the back of the head and dumped into a mass grave ... or just spoken to in a harsh voice and told not to be "naughty"?.

Details are important ... otherwise, forgetting about momentum will get you entombed in a heavy mass of semi-liquid concrete after the screech.

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SPEAKING OF NEWS RELEASES !! ....

All the news from Babylon the Great can be had at babylonbee <dot> com. Here is the latest from them on Televangelist Binny Hinn's recent "open house" in Grapevine Texas.... *coff*

Benny Hinn Attempts Jedi Mind Trick On IRS Agents Investigating His Ministry

April 27, 2017

GRAPEVINE, TX—As IRS and US Postal Service investigators swarmed Benny Hinn Ministries’ Grapevine office complex Wednesday, Benny Hinn himself stood nearby, utilizing a difficult, powerful Jedi mind trick on various government agents walking by in an attempt to dissuade them from investigating his ministry any further, sources confirmed.

“Sir, please just move out of the way so we can get these to our vehicle,” the IRS agent responded, according to those within earshot.

“I can go about my business,” Hinn replied, attempting to influence the agent’s actions with the mere power of his mind.

Exasperated, the agent attempted to plead one more time, but was interrupted by Hinn’s commanding voice, declaring, “Move along,” before he shook his head in frustration and just walked around the televangelist and prosperity gospel preacher.

At publishing time, sources had confirmed Hinn had attempted to blast the fleet of federal vehicles surrounding his ministry’s compound with a barrage of lightning from his fingertips, but had been unsuccessful.

In related news, also from babylonbee<dot>com ......

Panicked Kenneth Copeland Orders 15 Industrial Shredders From Amazon

April 28, 2017

NEWARK, TX—Having received a courtesy phone call from his friend Benny Hinn tipping him off to the federal government’s crackdown on Hinn’s ministry, a sweating, frantic Kenneth Copeland drove to his ministry headquarters Friday morning, sat down at one of his employees’ computers, and ordered 15 industrial paper shredders from Amazon, sources confirmed.

Scrolling through the various pieces of equipment available on the popular online storefront, Copeland filtered through dozens of lower-end, consumer-level shredders until a $24,000.00 industrial model that advertised the ability to shred up to 900 pounds of damning ministry tax documents per hour caught his eye.

“Perfect, this one can shred 500 incriminating files at once,” a nervous Copeland said as he perused the powerful, high-volume industrial paper shredder’s impressive statistics. “It can even get rid of 45,000 credit cards in an hour—that should do the trick.”

Adding the shredders to his cart and purchasing them on his ministry credit card, Copeland was then seen impatiently refreshing his Amazon tracking information, occasionally pacing to the window and nervously looking out the blinds at every passing helicopter and vehicle, sources confirmed.

bruceg:

I have not celebrated Christmas since about 1958, but every December I do calculate the size of my Freezer, and think about Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer, and how much space he would take up, fully dressed-out.

.

Soon after I was born, this came out in the AWAKE! magazine .....

As Dorothy said (paraphrased)  "We're not in Kansas anymore, Toto"

If they are registered as a "Company" ... which according to this news THEY ARE ... the civil authorities have the moral high ground.... and the "Company" has to obey the laws that APPLY to "Companies". The same thing has been recently established through the UK Supreme Court ... The Society is registered as a "Charity" in the UK, and for the past several years have been resisting and fighting in court after court that the Government DID NOT have the right to investigate Jehovah's Witnesses for the incidences of Child Sexual Abuse in the Congregations and what appears to be institutionalized policy.

They ALSO lost in that legal battle, and will be investigated.

This is an example of what happens when something that walks like a Duck, looks like a Duck, and quacks like a duck tries to pass itself off as a cow ... and discovers that people also EAT COWS.

.Who knew?

1 hour ago, Nicole said:

“The congregation is trying to evade its obligations under the SSC Act and this court cannot allow employees to be unprotected in the event they fall ill, become pregnant or die,” explained Judge Petrus Unengu.

Remember the October 2015 meltdown, when MASSIVE Bethel and Special Pioneer layoffs resulted in about 83,000 ( ... if memory serves ...) Witnesses to be "shown the front door", and escorted out?

Whoa .... *coff* ...AAAAA

.

..so you agree, then ... that the triangle is mad at the tube?

Tom, Tom Tommy Tom Tom:

Since you have misconstrued everything I have said, taken it out of context, and misapplied the PRINCIPLES of what I was ILLUSTRATING with contemporary examples of generally common knowledge in the Western world .. there is nothing I can do for you. You will just have to wallow in being you ... and I will wallow in being me.

54 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

No. in view of Matthew 10, modify JTR's statement to read: The reason Jesus was banned in the Russian Federation was because he DESERVES TO BE BANNED.

I quote you here to serve as a PERFECT example of my previous statement ... It is FALSE ... but you believe it to be true.

You MADE IT UP .... misquoting me for your own agenda.  I will give you this .. you are 100% consistent.

Your supposition is absurd on the face of it .... and your reactions to my postings is actually FUNNY.

I have enough experience with dangerous people whose philosophy is one stick away from a witch hunt and burning one at the stake to disregard it personally.

.... and, oh Tommy Tom Tom ..... have a nice day!

O.

K.

If they have ALREADY confiscated the Society's property, it now belongs to the Russian Federation ... if so, WHO CARES?

I have no interest in insulting people ... just sloppy thinking, which I myself occasionally wallow in.

I stand corrected .... but.. a "Cowboy" is someone that manages cows, nicht wahr?

Eoin Joyce:

It is SO refreshing  every once in a great while to hear a well reasoned, coherent thought.

Thank You!

.

bruceq:

Since reading comprehension seems to suffer because of the agendized glasses you look through .... I cannot help you understand other than the straight English sentences I have already posted.  Some people look at a house and say "That is a white house (or green, or tan, as the case may be ..). If you asked me I would reply "The parts of the house I can see are white (or green, or tan ,,,), with a dark colored shingle roof, and a red brick chimney, etc. ".

Good detectives detect a LOT ... bad detectives ... no so much.

People that base their perceptions on an agenda,  ... not at all.

The back of the house may be painted black, or cherry red.

When your life depends on it, details are IMPORTANT!

.

.

.

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bruceq:

Your last post presumes that Jesus can be wrong, which is FALSE.

You obviously did not read where I have ALREADY completely answered the exact question you asked previously.

SCROLL UP !

When we have a constant stream of "New Light", it means that the people that are NOT Jesus Christ .. WERE WRONG ....... constantly.

.

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bruceq:

That is a LOT of "perhapses", and "may be", and "may puts" testings of theoretical loyalty.

That is WHY we have trained consciences .... to be able to discern the DIFFERENCE between Jesus's direction, and arbitrary made-up stuff that is NOT Jesus' direction, but corporate policy.

We each have to decide what  "perhapses", and "may be", and "may puts" testings of theoretical loyalty are REAL, and what are  merely mechanisms for control by men, for no legitimate theocratic reason.

23 minutes ago, bruceq said:

   Stuff does happen. For example Jesus told his followers to eat his blood and flesh which was against the Mosaic Law and common sense. Would you have followed Jesus without any explanation or would you be so bold to ask for one?

To answer you question ... If I did not ALREADY know the symbolism ... I would have done BOTH!

Like the old saying goes (paraphrased) " Fairie Tales by a milkmaid can be disregarded ... Fairie Tales from a REAL FAIRIE deserve your attention".

Remember, the constant stream of "New Light" means that formerly we were, BY DEFINITION ... given darkness as spiritual food before .... and it was necessary to APOSTATIZE from those beliefs for "new light"

.

.

.

I believe (if memory serves) that it was American Revolutionary War hero Nathan Hale that said "My country right or wrong... but MY COUNTRY!"

The Nazis also had that philosophy, as do we for OUR Spiritual Nation..

Remember, even David, the beloved of God, had to hide out when King Saul went nutso and was trying to kill him for his own selfish reasons ... and Saul was ACTIVELY ... the Annointed of Jehovah at the time.

"STUFF HAPPENS!"

13 minutes ago, bruceq said:

As to policies and procedures it all boils down to loyalty to Jehovah's Organization. If this is the true religion then we should follow the ones Jehovah has taking the lead.

I disagree.   When they serve the cause of righteousness correctly, your statement is true ... when incompetence and ignorance and self serving aggrandizement  is the law ... NO! 

AND OF COURSE! we will have to pay whatever price levied.

That is the theme of the 2016 movie "Hacksaw Ridge" ... illegal orders do NOT have to be obeyed.

.

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bruceq:

I agree that disfellowshipping is a necessary part of keeping the Congregations clean from the things you mentioned ... BUT ... can you imagine Jesus Christ doing it the way that it is practiced today?

... ONLY in a Monty Python movie reduced to the absurd.. or a Vatican horror movie such as the Hunchback of Notre Dame

Early "christians" also tortured people, and burned them at the stake to cleanse their souls with fire.   TECHNICALLY, when a soldier uses a flamethrower against enemy soldiers, as the Americans did against the Japanese during the battle of Okinawa, it was NOT torture to burn someone alive ... because there was no INTENT to torture.

The nuances of that well recognized legal distinction is lost on those being burned to death.

Remember: Jesus Christ did not ruin the prostitute that was about to be stoned to death by the Elders of his day ... he said "Go your way, and sin no more ...".

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IT'S COW'S BLOOD !!!

IT'S COW'S BLOOD !!!

WHAT PART OF IT BEING COW'S BLLLLL0000000OD IS NOT UNDERSTOOD! ?

Justice you get from Jehovah God, and Jesus Christ .... any time men become involved, the MOST you can reasonably hope for in "due process".

Remember ... during the times when the Nazis ruled Germany and much of Europe ... they had a fully staffed and operational "Department of Justice" ... but there was no Justice ....

... but LOTS and LOTS of "due process".

Remember when called into the little back "Room 101" that the trial is called a "hearing" ... NOT a trial .... an example of "due process that may or may not have anything to do with Justice.

.

10 minutes ago, bruceq said:

"... All organizations who exist in our country, with the exception of traditional confessions, should be examined to find protection of the interests of traditional morality, traditional values of Russia, in institutions of respect for the family, concern for neighbors, and love of the fatherland ..."

I don't think most Witnesses ever consider that to the Russians, "Family" is extremely important ... during the Gulag years family was the only thing there was, as the tyranny of the Soviet Empire was a corrosive fog that eroded everyone. They saw neighbors rounded up and shipped to Siberia, in winter, dumped on the side of railroad tracks in the wildernesses, and with no food, or tools, told to build a city.   MUCH cheaper than prisons .  Work camps in the wilderness WERE the prisons.

THEY HAVE LEARNED what tyranny is and the only refuge is Family, and neighbors.  Wikipedia says this about the Soviet Gulags:

" The Gulag Archipelago (Russian: Архипелаг ГУЛАГ, Arkhipelag GULAG) is a book by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn about the Soviet forced labor camp system. The three-volume book is a narrative relying on eyewitness testimony and primary research material, as well as the author's own experiences as a prisoner in a gulag labor camp. Written between 1958 and 1968, it was published in the West in 1973 and, thereafter, circulated in samizdat (underground publication) form in the Soviet Union until its appearance in the Russian literary journal, Novy Mir, in 1989, in which a third of the work was published over three issues.

GULag or Gulág is an acronym for the Russian term Glavnoye Upravleniye ispravitelno-trudovyh Lagerey (Главное Управление Исправительно-трудовых Лагерей), or "Chief Administration of Corrective Labour Camps", the bureaucratic name of the governing board of the Soviet labour camp system, and by metonymy, the camp system itself. The original Russian title of the book is Arkhipelag GuLag, the rhyme supporting the underlying metaphor deployed throughout the work. The word archipelago compares the system of labor camps spread across the Soviet Union with a vast "chain of islands", known only to those who were fated to visit them.

Since the dissolution of the Soviet Union and the formation of the Russian Federation, The Gulag Archipelago has been officially published, and it has been included in the high school program in Russia as mandatory reading since 2009."

THEY HAVE LEARNED  about families being ripped apart and scattered to the wind, for senseless administrative cruelties to keep the system supplied with money, labor, and suppression of dissent ... so when they learn that Jehovah's Witnesses in disciplining their "flock" also destroy families, extended families, and entire social networks for the same reasons ... they look at it as cruel and unusual, and destructive to the fabric of society as a whole.

The fact that Jehovah's Witnesses NEVER behave in an extremist manner toward the Nation as a whole is not that important, as they can see the seeds of past terrors lying beneath the surface, waiting to infect the fabric of the Russian Federation as a whole.  They have learned from history ... their pogroms of the past killed over 20 MILLION Russian citizens in THEIR witch hunts.

When we, as disfellowshipping is practiced today, to discipline ONE PERSON .... destroy his relationships with mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins and friends, and cut off all communications with them ... it is worse than being arrested on fabricated charges and being sent to a wilderness work camp to freeze or starve.

It is cruelty BEYOND physical hardship.

I have and have read all three volumes of The Gulag Archipelago, and understand this nature of the Russian people.

They were sheep, and they were led to the slaughter by their leaders to consolidate their power and authority.

This is what is called in every political and religious system that has ever existed, or exists now ... NORMAL.

When will WE ever learn /

When will WE ever, Ever, EVER learn?

The reason Jehovah's were banned in the Russian Federation was because we DESERVE TO BE BANNED.

Such CRUELTY flying the false flag of righteousness the Russians know all too well.

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