19 hours ago, BroRando said:

Armageddon begins as a Spiritual Event and then Ends as a Literal One.

39 minutes ago, Chioke Lin said:

I don't wish to disparage the bible in any form.

I never assumed this my dear!

39 minutes ago, Chioke Lin said:

I don't believe there are any discrepancies in the bible. I believe the discrepancies come from us

Correct

39 minutes ago, Chioke Lin said:

Jonah was protected from evil men.

Actually he was the cause of the problem - they threw him into the sea at his request.  I agree with you that Jehovah later protected him from the very violent Assyrians when he went there but they listened to him. Their hearts were more receptive than the Jews. 

I read a scripture where it speaks of the great sabbath: john 19:³¹  Since it was the day of Preparation, so that the bodies would not remain on the torture stakes on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath day was a great one), the Jews asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken away. 

Don't worry about your English - it is fine.  I am actually originally from Africa.  My first language is Afrikaans.... a form of Dutch because it was a Dutch colony which was later taken over by the British.... 

8 hours ago, Chioke Lin said:

not being part of the Passover ritual

8 hours ago, Chioke Lin said:

The way I understand, the "double sabbath" is, not being part of the Passover ritual, but a direction for soldiers to comply. 

Passover was not a Sabbath because they prepared the sacrificial lamb to eat and the bitter greens.  The Next day was a sabbath (last day of the week) and NO food was to be prepared on a Sabbath - people who worked on this day faced death penalty.  But directly after the Passover there was the 7 days of Festival of Unfermented Cakes.  The First day of this festival was always held as a Sabbath.  In the time of Jesus it was a double Sabbath because it was first day of Festival of Unfermented  cakes and it also fell on the Sabbath day. 

The soldiers, I would say was merely a additional practice. I would have to go and find it in the Law of Moses to see if it was a requirement by Law.

Regarding death: this is why I wrote the part on death..... it is total unconsciousness where "protection" of the dead is not needed.  It is a prison forever if Jehovah does not wish to free the person from this condition.  But I agree with you that Jehovah took the body of Jesus because it was a perfect sacrifice to him. I would guess, the moment Jesus was resurrected Jehovah disposed of it. It was protected by the soldiers as the pharisees tried to prevent the sign of Jonah..... the resurrection or freeing from the prison of death.

6 hours ago, Chioke Lin said:

would think no one would have claim to Christ body.

hebrews 10:   ⁵  So when he comes into the world, he says: “‘Sacrifice and offering you did not want, but you prepared a body for me. ⁶  You did not approve of whole burnt offerings and sin offerings.’ ⁷  Then I said: ‘Look! I have come (in the scroll it is written about me) to do your will, O God.’”

 ⁹  then he says: “Look! I have come to do your will.” He does away with what is first in order to establish what is second. ¹⁰  By this “will” we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all time."

 Yes - Jehovah prepared a body for Jesus as a human for it to be sacrificed. This was a perfect "sacrifice" in place of the animals. So like the animals which were burnt - this body belonged to Jehovah. (Jesus could never come back in a physical body because this was given up when he died on the altar of Jehovah's will. Jesus was dedicated to Jehovah and his will - his whole life was a sacrifice to Jehovah's will. The "altar" is a symbol of Jehovah's will.

10 hours ago, Chioke Lin said:

When Jesus spoke of Jonah, it would be important to use Jonah's experience.

If we were both watching your dog and I said to you: " your dog does that, just like my my cat".  And you say: "why?" .... and I explain: "your dog yawns with a long, stretchy abandon just as my cat does". .......Should you be satisfied with that explanation?..... or  go on and on and try to find many more small little things which are similar between my cat and your dog? 

That would be excessive would it not?  I was making only one comparison - they yawn the same.

Similarly, Jesus was only focusing on his death that would happen in future and he called it a sign - which event has a single similarity to the experience of Jonah. What was similar? Jonah was imprisoned in the belly of a fish for 3 days and then he was miraculously released.  Jesus was  imprisoned in death for 3 days and then miraculously released in resurrection.  - that was the sign.

To go and find out if there are many more little similarities or discrepancies between Jesus and Jonah, going into the number of hours, finding out if Jonah was in a coma within the fish, or dead and then came alive,,, that would be missing the point of the sign that Jesus spoke about.

It was a sign to prove that Jesus was the Messiah. Jesus knew he would die sometime on Nissan 14 (depending on how long they would take to convict and murder him), because on the original Passover, the  lamb was sacrificed on that date.....and Jesus knew the Law well. He knew the first fruit festival was on Nissan 16 - the second day of the unfermented cakes - and that sometime on that day Jehovah would resurrect him....as the First Fruit to a heavenly life  with a spiritual body.  He gave that as a sign that he was the Messiah.  His death and release.  The messiah came to provide us with a perfect Passover lamb - to be sacrificed and provide the ransom.

10 hours ago, Chioke Lin said:

Jesus shouldn't have been protected from Satan, and evil ones wishing to do harm to his body?

Jesus cried out " my God why have you forsaken me" (paraphrased)..... 

If God helped Jesus at this time, then Satan could accuse God of not being fair - that Jesus did not give his all together with his life and suffer of his own free will. Satan  could have said that Jesus was unfairly or extraordinarily helped to endure. He did not really have a death of suffering.

When they offered Jesus myrrh and wine he refused for the same reason.  This combination was known to deaden the pain and was a kind of drug.  Jesus did everything perfectly so that no legitimate accusations could be brought against his sacrifice.  There were of course, many false accusations.

Sheol and Hades: 

These words mean the same: the common grave of mankind (all humans go to dust in the common grave of mankind). Gehenna is the second death (this can be discussed later as this refers to death which lasts forever.)

I can explain this to you in more detail later if you want........  but it is important to know that Jesus died completely!

What do I mean by that? Many Christians believe Jesus was a body with a separate soul.  Is this belief correct? NO! This belief comes from the Babylonian teachings of the "underworld" where the soul lives on after death or is conscious.  The bible does not teach this at all. 

In fact, the Bible prophesied that Jesus would put his "soul" in death!   Isaiah 53: 12 

6 hours ago, Chioke Lin said:

I'm still trying to figure, the "double sabbath" that is being referenced.

Saturday was the regular sabbath on which no cooking on any work was to be done.  It was the first day of the Festival of Unfermented cakes.  The first day being a special day- kept like a Sabbath.

Festival of Unfermented cakes:

The first convention of the Jews was to be held in early spring and lasted eight days, from Nisan 14 to 21, to celebrate first the Passover; and then the festival of unfermented cakes. 

They were occasions of great rejoicing before Jehovah and happy fellowship, joyful, upbuilding reunions of the entire nation.

Four days previously, on the tenth of the month, each family head had to take into the house a sound male lamb or goat, a year old. After sunset of Nisan 14 it was slaughtered without a bone’s being broken and then roasted whole.

"During the first Passover in Egypt - the blood was splashed upon the upper part of the doorway and upon the two doorposts, where every passerby could see it. After this no one was permitted to leave the house.  “Later in the evening the whole family assembled around the table to eat the Passover lamb or goat with unfermented cakes and bitter herbs. They ate in haste, not sitting down at their tables, but standing, with their hips girded, their sandals on their feet and a staff in their hand. They were ready to leave that very night as Jehovah had promised through his prophet Moses. 

The eating of the Passover lamb with unfermented cakes and bitter greens reminds the Israelites, not only of the afflictions while they were in Egypt and the hasty departure, but also of the miraculous deliverance from cruel slavery under the mighty Pharaoh. This has made Passover a joyous festival. To express this joy, wine was added later to be used during this festival of liberation and songs were sung, such as the ‘Egyptian Hallel’ during the first part of the celebration, that is, Psalms 113 and 114, and at the conclusion of the feast Psalms 115 to 118. 

“For, indeed, Christ our Passover has been sacrificed.” (1 Cor. 5:7) Yes, Christ Jesus was offered as the perfect Lamb of God exactly on Nisan 14, in the year 33 C.E. B y this sacrifice the basis was laid for a far greater deliverance than the release from Egyptian captivity.

The day following Passover marked the beginning of the festival of unfermented cakes, which ran for seven days, from Nisan 15 to 21. During these seven days the Israelites continued to eat unfermented cakes; in fact, no fermentation was to be found in their homes. This law was very strict; anyone found eating what was leavened was to be cut off from the people, put to death. 

The next day of the convention, Nisan 16, was another featured day. It was the second day of the festival of unfermented cakes, the official opening of the harvest. The Jews were not allowed to eat from the product of the new harvest before this day, when the firstfruits were offered to Jehovah. On this day the high priest was required to wave a sheaf of the barley firstfruits to and fro before Jehovah at the sanctuary. (Lev. 23:10-14)

During the seven-day festival, in addition to the regular sacrifices, two bullocks, one ram and seven male lambs were offered day by day as burnt offerings and a he-goat as a sin offering, besides the many voluntary offerings by individuals. The festival climaxed with a final general assembly on the seventh day, Nisan 21

By the waving of the sheaf of the firstfruits of the barley harvest, another important point was foreshadowed. Again it is the apostle Paul who gives us the correct understanding: “However, now Christ has been raised up from the dead, the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep . . . Christ the first fruits.” No ferment or leaven, representing sin, was associated with the presentation of the barley firstfruits, for Jesus Christ was “loyal, guileless, undefiled, separated from the sinners.” As the sheaf was waved on Nisan 16 Jesus was raised as the “first fruits,” or the firstborn from the dead, on Nisan 16, 33 C.E. Since Jesus is called the “first fruits” or “first-born from the dead,” there must be more “fruit” following him. This is foreshadowed by the next festival.

On Sivan 6, the second national convention was held, the festival of weeks, also called Pentecost, meaning the fiftieth day. It was a one-day convention. Many conventioneers stayed in Jerusalem from Passover till Pentecost. Pentecost was a very joyful gathering; it was “the festival of harvest of the first ripe fruits of your labors, of what you sow in the field.” 

 They should be baked leavened, as first ripe fruits to Jehovah.” It is interesting to notice the use of leaven during this festival. 

The most notable festival of weeks ever held was the one celebrated after Jesus’ resurrection in the year 33 C.E. The historian Dr. Luke has recorded the events of this memorable Pentecost in detail. (See Acts, chapter 2.) It was on this day that the waving of the two fermented loaves began to have fulfillment. The two loaves symbolically represented the entire body of 144,000 spirit-begotten members of Christ’s body as being waved or presented by Christ Jesus, the greater High Priest, before Jehovah as holy unto Him. The 120 disciples who were gathered in the upper room were the first members presented and the ingathering of the remaining ones has continued from Pentecost 33 C.E. until our day, with a remnant yet living on earth. The first ones were taken from the natural Jews, as foreshadowed by one of the loaves, and then others were taken from the Gentile nations, beginning in 36 C.E., when Peter preached to Cornelius, as represented by the second “loaf.”—Acts 10:1-48.

]

The watchtower I found this information  goes on to explain why the breads were fermented etc..    https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1967523

Nissan 15: That is, Nisan 15. The day after Nisan 14 was always observed as a Sabbath, or holy day of rest, no matter what day of the week it fell on. Additionally, in 33 C.E., Nisan 15 fell on the regular weekly Sabbath, making the day a “great,” or double, Sabbath.—Joh 19:31; see App. B12 (this appendix B12 is worth keeping)

John 19:31: New International Version

Preparation: A name applied to the day preceding the weekly Sabbath. During this day, the Jews got ready for the Sabbath by preparing extra meals and finishing any work that could not wait until after the Sabbath. In this case, the day of Preparation fell on Nisan 14.—Mr 15:42; see Glossary.

27:63

three days: This expression can mean parts of three days. This is evident from the request that the tomb “be made secure until the third day,” and not until the fourth.—Mt 27:64; see study note on Mt 12:40.

three days and three nights: Other Bible accounts show that this expression can mean parts of three days and that part of one day can be considered a whole day.—Ge 42:17, 18; 1Ki 12:5, 12; Mt 27:62-66; 28:1-6.

I looked this up because it is important.  Enjoy!

7 hours ago, BroRando said:

Nisan 14th, the 1st Day conculded on Friday Evening with Sundown ushering in the Second Day that Jesus was in the Grave. That's why they hurried to bury Jesus. 

This is how I understand it too. Nissan 14 is Passover day (Thursday after Sundown to Friday sundown.....)and Nissan 15 is a sabbath...... and Nissan 15 happened to also fall on the regular Sabbath - so it was a double sabbath.  (what is the chances of that! - amazing!)

Because it was a double Sabbath when no work was to be done the bones of the criminals were broken so they could be taken off the stakes and buried.  Jesus had already perished. 

12 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

dare not comment on the bit I've put in bold

I am sure that if you keep it civil and not just use your post to get at the GB, the librarian will not mind.  We will not mind either.  We like to have new thoughts.

11 minutes ago, BroRando said:

hey had No Understanding nor discernment. 

My discernment is that Jesus had not need for any purification or any added symbolism regarding his death - the "sign" of Jonah was a "sign" not an exact replication - Jesus was not in a fish for three days.  We do not want the superstition of the Jews who find numerology in almost anything to overwhelm us.  We then lose the purpose of the illustration/sign and meaning of his death.

All the symbolism about the death of Jesus is found in Hebrews. How he replaced the Passover lamb, being High priest of the new covenant; his flesh died and was disposed of by Jehovah (curtain of the Most holy) tore,  and so forth.

15 hours ago, Chioke Lin said:

purification, a ritual under the law of Moses for atonement?

Yes -  I do see the pattern of the purification and cleansing of the number 40.  It rained 40 days and nights to clean the earth during the flood ... and there are many other examples. ......BUT..... Jesus was perfect - he needed no cleansing or purification. .

1 peter 2: 22 " ²²  He committed no sin,o nor was deception found in his mouth."

20 hours ago, BroRando said:

Nisan 14, 33 CE - 1st Day - Thursday at Sundown from 7:00 pm to Friday at Sundown to 7:00 pm   Jesus was put to death at approximately 3:00 pm that Friday afternoon on Nisan 14th. That's 4 hours.

Nisan 15, 33 CE - 2nd Day - Friday at Sundown from 7:00 pm to Saturday at Sundown to 7:00 pm  That's 24 hours.

Nisan 16, 33 CE - 3rd Day - Saturday at Sundown from 7:00 pm to Sunday at Sundown to 7:00 pm  Jesus was resurrected at dawn by 7:00 am. That's 12 hours.

4 + 24 + 12 = 40 hours

That was good to read.  Only, Jesus did not need any purification, cleaning or any things else regarding cleaning.  He did need time to talk with Jehovah to be able to focus on the purpose of his anointing.

On 6/19/2022 at 4:55 AM, Pudgy said:

of course he ate fish, on Friday

A royal three course meal - fish, then Passover lamb, dessert and coffee

On 6/19/2022 at 8:54 AM, BroRando said:

preparation day was the day before, making it Thursday Evening

One had to prepare before the sabbath - the sabbath was on the Saturday (a double sabbath whereon NO work was to be done - no cooking etc.  

I am a bit lazy to investigate but Jesus sent two ahead of him to the upper room to prepare for the Passover.  Passover was not a Sabbath so they could prepare the lamb on that day.... I hope I am correct on this.   ....  Maybe someone (JWI) could give us some more details on this.  (My eyes do not allow much any longer). 

On 6/19/2022 at 5:11 AM, BroRando said:

ust watch video

thanks - was reminded again - lovely!

On 6/19/2022 at 12:34 AM, Chioke Lin said:

Now the LORD had appointed a great fish to swallow Jonah, and Jonah spent three days and three nights in the belly of the fish

Nowhere does it say it is exactly 72 hours.  It would have been more accurate to say 72 hours if God meant exactly 72 hours.  So they could have thrown him onto the sea very late late night of first day  (which fits in with Jewish day which starts at sundown), and shortly after the third night when daylight came - spewed him on dry land.....  did not think this through but just an idea.  

Jesus also spoke of the SIGN of Jonah.  A sign is not literal but an indication of something.  So we do not expect literal 3 days and nights but FOCUS on the SIGN..... just as the budding of the first flowers on trees is a sign that spring is arriving.  

The focus of all of this is the sign and the fact that Jesus died.  The other additional things are the side events.

4 hours ago, Chioke Lin said:

is the bible referring to the full 3 days,

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1958888

Questions From Readers

● At Matthew 12:40 Jesus said he would be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights, which some understand to mean a full seventy-two hours. However, the Watch Tower publications speak of it as “parts of three days.” Why?—B. W., Canada.

Those who argue that Jesus was dead in the grave for a period of seventy-two hours, three full days and three full nights, base their argument on the words of Jesus at Matthew 12:40: “For just as Jonah was in the belly of the huge fish three days and three nights, so the Son of man will be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.” However, their conclusion that this means a period of seventy-two hours is in conflict with the scriptures that say he was raised “on the third day,” not the fourth. Obviously, their conclusion is in error.—Acts 10:39, 40.

In the Bible “three days” does not necessarily mean a full seventy-two-hour period. An example is found at 1 Kings 12:5, 12. King Rehoboam said to the people: “Go away for three days and return to me.” Acting in harmony with his command, would they return on the third day or on the fourth? If they understood his command to mean to return after three full days, they would put in an appearance on the fourth day. However, they did not understand it that way and neither did the king mean it that way. So 1 Ki 12 verse 12 says: “And Jeroboam and all the people proceeded to come to Rehoboam on the third day, just as the king had spoken, saying, ‘Return to me on the third day.’” So they returned after parts of three days had elapsed: the first being the day the king sent them away, the second being the next day, and the third being the day on which they returned to the king.—See also Genesis 40:13, 20; 42:17, 18; Esther 4:15, 16; 5:1.

Jesus himself explained the meaning of his statement, both before his death and following his resurrection. After having made the statement found at Matthew 12:40, Jesus later explained: “The Son of man is destined to be betrayed into men’s hands, and they will kill him, and the third day he will be raised up.” Following his resurrection he confirmed it: “In this way it is written that the Christ would suffer and rise from among the dead on the third day.”—Matt. 17:22, 23; Luke 24:46.

The Bible clearly shows that Jesus was in the tomb “parts of three days.” He expired on Friday afternoon, the day before the Jewish sabbath. (Matt. 27:45-50; John 19:31) He rose from the dead early on the first day of the Jewish week, or Sunday morning. (John 20:1) So he was in the grave part of Friday, all day Saturday, and was raised early on Sunday.—See The Watchtower as of March 15, 1944, pages 86-88, paragraphs 17-25.

4 hours ago, Chioke Lin said:

Does this mean, Jesus last supper was on Friday? 

Time of his death. The death of Jesus Christ took place in the spring, on the Passover Day, Nisan (or Abib) 14, according to the Jewish calendar. (Mt 26:2; Joh 13:1-3; Ex 12:1-6; 13:4) That year the Passover occurred on the sixth day of the week (counted by the Jews as from sundown on Thursday to sundown on Friday). This is evident from John 19:31, which shows that the following day was “a great” sabbath. The day after Passover was always a sabbath, no matter on what day of the week it came. (Le 23:5-7) But when this special Sabbath coincided with the regular Sabbath (the seventh day of the week), it became “a great one.” So, Jesus’ death took place on Friday, Nisan 14, by about 3:00 p.m.—Lu 23:44-46.

(Concerning the day of his death as reckoned on the Gregorian calendar, astronomical calculations show that there was an eclipse of the moon on Friday, April 3, 33 C.E. (Julian calendar), which would be Friday, April 1, on the Gregorian calendar. (Oppolzer’s Canon of Eclipses, translated by O. Gingerich, 1962, p. 344) Eclipses of the moon always occur at the time of full moon. This evidence strongly indicates that Nisan 14, 33 C.E., fell on Thursday-Friday, March 31–April 1, 33 C.E., on the Gregorian calendar.)

Sometimes two legal Sabbaths would fall on the same 24-hour period, and this was called a “great” Sabbath, such as when Nisan 15 (a sabbath day) coincided with the regular Sabbath.

—Joh 19:31 “31Since it was the day of Preparation, so that the bodies would not remain on the torture stakes on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath day was a great one), the Jews asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken away.”

5 hours ago, Pudgy said:

and of course he ate fish, on Friday!

Pudgy - please - there are times to laugh, times to obstruct (with laughter), and times to be open and help.   This is a woman who sincerely is asking questions and needs answers.  Inappropriate attention seeking is not good at this time! 

1 hour ago, Chioke Lin said:

Yud-Hay-Vav-Hay

The letter w and V is pronounced the same in some languages.  And J and Y is pronounced the same. Different letters are used for the same SOUNDS. 

Just as J and Y  is pronounced the same in some languages.   So different languages use different letters for the exact same sound. 

2 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

nd what about the 'V' when the tetragrammaton is YHWH. 

I guess you only speak one language.... because if you have learnt any other you will know that sounds are different in different languages.  A  J  in some languages are pronounced as "Y" in other.   In my own language (Afrikaans) a J is pronounced the same as a Y   in Albanian....... (where I live now).

3 hours ago, Peter Carroll said:

poster witness is one twisted individual ,what a lot of crap

Peter, when I saw the other picture you often use, I did not know what to make of it because I saw a "parrot" with his wing like an arm on the JW-sign. 

The "parrot" took on a special significance...... lol.  Now I see a new picture and I see you just love all birds. What a relief!

1 hour ago, BroRando said:

transliterated

Nehemia Gorden indicates clearly that Jewish scholars never took any time to search  for the true pronunciation of Jehovah's name because Jews do not pronounce it.  So he has done so himself over the past few years. 

He has a team of people searching online through all ancient manuscripts. When they find the Name written down with the point system (vowels) included, he goes personally  to look at the original manuscript to ensure the ink is the same etc. 

He confirms the Name is Jehovah - actually YEHOVAH..... because the J is a transliteration. 

The last time I kept track of him there were much more than a thousand places the vowels and consonants were found together. 

35 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

The Truth about the GB and it's Org makes a big enough dent, and you show it, because you have to keep commenting on it. 

Ha..... funny!

11 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

A woman that moans about others being rude or insulting

Sexist again - .....keep sitting on your brain and hands.... 

5 minutes ago, BroRando said:

that it would have to be a multi-national body to which all these peoples would stream

So - sitting on his brain waiting for something other than the truth - should take note? heh?