Arauna

1 hour ago, Chioke Lin said:

specific thing I was referencing was, the territory of Egypt that might have included the Sudan region in ancient times.

Yes it did  in later times when upper and lower Egypt were united.

Yea -very well!   He is talking the talk but is he walking the talk?

16 hours ago, The Librarian said:

but there is also the possibility it comes from much later. Whereas the Temple in Ancient Egypt is pretty rock solid

Agreed..... 

I saw a historical discrepancy and said what I thought.  Sorry to get you all in a tizzy about this..... I thought you would just find it interesting that there is a discrepancy - actually 2.

I liked the link @Chioke Lin gave us: 

"Among ancient Egyptian designations for types of foreign peoples in the New Kingdom Period (1550–1070 BC), the term Shasu occurs fairly frequently. It is generally accepted that the term Shasu means nomads or Bedouin people, referring primarily to the nomadic peoples of Syria-Palestine. There are two hieroglyphic references in New Kingdom Period texts to an area called "the land of the Shasu of Yahweh." Except for the Old Testament, these are the oldest references found in any ancient texts to the God Yahweh.It is very likely that the Egyptians of the New Kingdom Period classified all of the ancient Edomites, Ammonites, Moabites, Amalekites, Midianites, Kenites, Hapiru, and Israelites as Shasu.

There is even a reference dating to ca. 1250 BC in Papyrus Anastasi I to a group of giant Shasu living in Canaan who may be identified with the giants encountered by the Israelites at the time of the Exodus. Clearly the Egyptians knew about Yahweh as can be seen in the Soleb and Amarah-West topographical lists, but they did not worship him, and they apparently did not want to worship him."

This indicates as the librarian said : that the inscription could have been of a later date. Since Amenhotep did not rule in 1500BCE era. 

16 hours ago, The Librarian said:

wandering around the world following a tent (tabernacle) "nomads".

Yes - he would - agreed.  The problem is that Sudan or Aswan lies in upper Egypt -  There is no way that the Israelites travelled around there AFTER the exodus as he implied.  

15 hours ago, Chioke Lin said:

since anyone after the flood would be considered nomads.

Agreed, right after the flood  everyone were nomads but later as clans grew in groups they would later become nations with city-states - such as the Edomites (offspring from Esau), Amonites and Moabites (offspring of Lot) etc. Later on there were still nomads roaming about and they lived in areas which were not occupied by cities. In Canaan the different Canaanite nations occupied specific areas. Joseph was picked up and sold in Egypt by a group of Ishmaelites /Midianites who were offspring from Abraham.  By this time there were many caravans which were travelling merchants who sold goods and travelled around different trade routs. 

About 800 years after the flood - Egypt was a massive country comprising different tribes (at least 20 Nomes - states with governors - maybe even different dialects) and even  Ethiopia was already a nation.  It was in this time that Jehovah led Israel out of Egypt in the exodus.  800 years after flood is a loooong time.  Nations had formed and wars were everywhere. 

The archeologist mentioned the inscription which referred to NOMADS of Jahweh which the Pharoah had conquered.  He speculated that it was the Israelites AFTER  the exodus......as the exodus took place +- 1512 BCE.....  this  speculation is not based on the reality.  Israel Never went back to Egypt after the exodus (but a break away group before the exodus could have become nomads).  If there were a group of nomads who had Jehwah or jahweh as their god they could also have been another nomadic group which split off from other peoples after the flood and remained in pockets and travelled around.  He says this because the inscription is dated to the 15th century but then he uses the wrong Egyptian king! which sat on the throne much later! 

Today there are pockets of Africans in North East Africa who have Jewish customs. Apart from Ethiopia there are other tribes. They must have become proselytes at one time or had contact with Israel and or split off from other tribes who had these customs. The traditions were carried over from generation to generation.

This kind of thing makes for very interesting history.

23 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

but Arauna seems to think these early hieroglyphs are not being represented properly.  

I do not know if you deliberately misunderstand me.  No - I am not saying the hieroglyphs are not 1500 years BCE or that the Name is wrong.  

Let me put it this way - I do not expect a gynecologists to know everything about heart of eye problems. I do not expect a bone doctor to know a gynies business. 

Similarly and archeologist usually specializes in one field.... .  I do not know the field of this archeologist but I am thankful he cares about the bible and Jehovah's name.

Unfortunately he did sloppy biblical history about the inscription.  We are supposed to be the bible students are we not? And therefore I say he was wrong to say it was inscribed by the Israelites AFTER the exodus.  It does not make sense.   

10 hours ago, Peter Carroll said:

a’acov (Jacob) means: “he will follow”.

In Arabic the third person male also starts with Y...... which means he follows, he sings, he eats etc.

13 hours ago, Matthew9969 said:

imagine your not a fan of tennis either

I think there were people who went on to follow a career and ignore jehovah's standards such as the sisters who won so many award.  To tell you the truth I like tennis, cricket, rugby, socker, gymnastics, singing, acting writing ... the list is endless and it can appreciate a good performance.  But when I see a person that has known jehovah for a long time and still opts to put a career ahead of everything - I kinda say something. ....  No hard feelings- to each his own.  I do mentor young singers in the Truth -  and I have seen some of them go into the world to never return....... career and ego.

I always warn them when they are good!

I was showing in my post that there is a historical\ geographical error in his presentation!.  Geographically the Israelites were not near this area! ... and he speaks of a nomad people who were conquered who calls on this name!

Look on the map of Israel's travels on the peninsula and look at the  map of Africa and you will see there were no Israelites in Sudan! after the exodus - which was what he was implying.  The 1500 BCE dates are correct but the KING is the wrong king - He lived much later. 

While I respect the fact that he is bringing these old artifacts to us (I  subscribed to his channel) , it does not mean that he researches his comments very well.  The reason I say this is go back to the original Librarian post and you will see my reasonings for my  pointing out the discrepancies!

4 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

oes he have a big ego

Egos cannot be seen. The most gentle and humble looking people can have an ego. Ego is ego -  so what you seem to be saying it is only those with a BIG ego, that is clearly visible, is missing the mark.  Humility can be an exterior quality.

4 hours ago, Pudgy said:

like a bit of talent based jealousy, to me…

No, I have no jealousy for a pop singer believe me.  BUT there are many brothers and sisters who have left lucrative political careers, football careers, ballet careers, singing careers, acting careers and other careers for which they have natural talent and have all the necessary skills - for to put Jehovah first in their life.  He is the one who went on with his career - and therefore reminds me of the rich man who turned away from Jesús because his money meant more to him that being a disciple.

Jehovah will be his judge and he may get away with it..... but I would rather show great encouragement to young artists to practice their craft at home for pleasure of their friends - and I tell them it is not the time now to go out in the great entertainment world to make a name for themselves - unless they lose focus and lose their life.

He should know better! And I brought this up because I do not make idols of these kinds of people. 

While I liked the idea that the name was found which is so old,  I immediately saw the above  discrepancies regarding conflicting dates (wrong kung) and the geographical area he mentioned where the Israelites travelled through. 

7 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Have you beheld a man skillful in his work?

I do not think a man must follow his own ambitions after retirement age.  And use skill as an excuse. 

Once one is in the public eye it is very hard to let go.... of the ego. I know all about this. At 70 I can still sing a good dramatic piece.... the voice is no longer a sweet coloratura but it is still exceptional for a person my age to do this..... with little practice too! . I honestly had to fight where I am at right now.   I also know of excellent musicians who no longer follow careers or even play in the JW orchestra. 

Older people like this could set the right example. 

Additionally - 

It was in Sudan! Upper Egypt! Israel would never have been travelling in this area! 

It is also written in very early hieroglyphs (and if you study Egyptology you will know that the pronunciations are based on the  later Coptic pronunciations of Egyptian.) Scholars still do not know how the early Egyptian language was pronounced! So the chance exists that they do not know the exact pronunciation. ...

The presenter in the video also has the wrong king. Amenotep III is too late! 

here is the dates of Amenotep in Wikipedia!   

3 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

I suppose you will call the Egyptians liars too

You have it wrong - it was in Sudan! Upper Egypt!  But you are posting on the wrong thread!  In any case it was written in very early hieroglyphs (and if you study Egyptology you will know that their pronunciations are based on the  later Coptic pronunciations of Egyptian. Scholars still do not know how the early Egyptian language was pronounced! So the chance exists that they do not know the exact pronunciation. ...

The presenter in the video also has the wrong king. Amenotep III is too late! 

here is his dates in wikipedia!   

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

fear we expound too much energy trying to pound square pegs into round holes.

I do not share the same sentiment.  When one is famous and have a lot of income coming in from royalties.... one can cut your life-style and put Jehovah first.

I have a nasty suspicion it is the ego that remains involved.... the need of achieving something and still be admired by the people!

Thank you - so it is clear that even in Sudan area there is this an inscription of the Name of the God of Israel dated to 1500 BCE.  Unfortunately the nation of Israel did not travel as nomads around this region after the exodus 1512 BCE because there was a clear understanding that they would never return to Egypt - and Sudan lies in the upper Egypt region.

They were brought into a covenant relationship with Jah three months after they left Egypt (if I remember correctly), which included that God would give them the land of milk an honey, which was promised to their forefather Abraham. Turning back to Egypt was a sin. Their worshiping animals as a god was also connected to the Egyptian religion........ Something hated by Jehovah.  If they retuned to this religion Jehovah would punish them -  Deut 28:68 " ⁶⁸  And Jehovah will certainly bring you back to Egypt by ship, by the way that I told you, ‘You will never see it again,’ and there you will have to sell yourselves to your enemies as male and female slaves, but there will be no buyer.”

Deut 17:16: ¹⁶ The king, moreover, must not acquire great numbers of horses for himself or make the people return to Egypt to get more of them, for the Lord has told you, “You are not to go back that way again."

Could it be possible that these nomads in Sudan were people who left Egypt before the exodus or after the exodus and moved around as nomads in this area, which was much more fertile at the time? They obviously were known to have Yahweh as their god - OR could it have been left over worship from patriarchal times with memories of Yahweh? In patriarchal times there were isolated pockets of peoples (from post-diluvial times) who still followed this worship (learnt from their forefathers.)

If one studies the maps of Israel's movements in the Arabian peninsula - they did not go back to Egypt at this time. The presenter is therefore inaccurate in his assumption that Israel wondered in the area of Sudan.  They would have had to pass through Egypt to get there or over the Red Sea again.

You would think at this age he would put Jehovah first. Instead his career still going....still working hard on his career.  

I do not admire this - sorry.  

Thank you for your contributions! Great!

Joseph asked for his bones to be brought back to the territory of his forefathers - most probably put in a repository of the tomb  of his forefathers at Machpelah.

Yes - evidences pile up but most archeologists do not give it any attention and just promote the materialistic viewpoint - nothing spiritual of value provided. 

Interesting that the archeologists give such exorbitant laboratory dates (wrong dating for sure!), when most honest scholars know that the bronze age was just before the iron age.  It is in the bronze age (just before the iron) that these Giants in neighboring areas to Israel where living.  

There were very tall nations such as the Philistines, Anakin and the Rephaim. They could even have been related. Jehovah promised the territory of the Rephaim to the descendants of Abraham.—Ge 15:18-20. Read in the Insight book where they originally lived and were displaced.

When David was fighting the Philistines, he and his servants struck down four men “born to the Rephaim in Gath.” One of them was described as “a man of extraordinary size whose fingers and toes were in sixes, twenty-four.” The description of their armor indicates that they were all men of great stature. One of these was “Lahmi the brother of Goliath the Gittite.” read 1 Cron 20: 4-8 (interesting).   

Personal note: When one has a nation who all are exceptionally large and heavy, one would find that there would be some larger exceptions amongst them as well (especially when the same blood is perpetuated for 4 generations all of them would be tall and when one finds genetic defects such as the six fingers and toes then one know you are dealing with exceptional genetic heritage.)  Today we know this, so there is no doubt that their mere height and size would have put fear in the heart of a normal man - even if their fighting ability was not exceptional in man to man combat.  With the help of Jehovah they subdued these tall and strong peoples.

Most of these nations were warlike, so Goliath was chosen above the others (above his large fleshly brother who may have been a mercenary Gittite to Gath, the philistines). It seems there were 2 Goliaths - a title given to the role of the main warrior. (There is a scripture which does not read right - one needs to study al the linked scriptures to understand what happened)  There were many of these large persons. Goliath was one of the Rephaim; he may have been a mercenary soldier with the Philistine army.—1Ch 20:5, 8;

When the 12 spies of Israel went into the area of Hebron , they saw the Anakim. They alleged that they were descendants of the Nephilim. Note:  I see many people on internet are now taking up with the book of Enoch and reject the bible, except for these verses about the Nephilim.  They are practicing what I deem - worship of the demons.  They uphold the idea that there are demon-offspring still on earth..........  which we know as a fact , were all annihilated during the flood.  All angels had to return to heaven as their human bodies could to protect them from the flood and their offspring, the Nephilim, also died.  Jehovah thoroughly cleansed the earth.  But it shows the level of superstition  still on earth at the time when Israel returned to take the land which Jehovah had promised to Abraham. 

"Joshua devoted them and their cities to destruction 22 There were no Anʹa·kim left in the land of the Israelites; they remained only in Gazʹa, in Gath, and in Ashʹdod.  Later Caleb had to fight them in this same city of Hebron again as it seems the Anakin re-established themselves there.  While Israel was fighting elsewhere they did not establish garrisons in Hebron - which opened the way for Anakim  to return.

Read under Hebron in the Insight book to get the history of Hebron, a city where Abraham lived and later,  through conquest, belonged to Israel.  The fertile soil and produce is described there.

I have put a scholarly analyses of  how the Hebrew language works. I have shown that the name of jehovah  itself is a rare form of Hollow verb and does NOT have the meaning of  destruction -  unless you are a babe in Hebrew language you would think so. .... similar to ass-ume does not mean " ass" to someone who knows  English.

I have also shown that destruction in some cases is permanent and sometimes it is not - depending on whether jehovah or Jesus has passed a righteous judgment on the person.  I also showed that the wicked can destroy a person but it is also not permanent - depending on a resurrection.

So when one clings to the false ideas of destruction.... it is wrong.  Jehovah needs to judge the apostates even when we can see they have clear case of unrepentant sin and regularly  spew their falsehoods about the name of jehovah and about Jehovah Himself. 

8 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

I've never seen so many pathetic JWs as

I have seen quite a few interesting comments on here from various lexicon etc.   But of course, one can have a pathetic attitude too! 

2 hours ago, Witness said:

Jesus told us HE IS NOT THE DESTROYER in John 10:10.

 This is what John 10:10 says:

¹⁰  The thief does not come unless it is to steal and slay and destroy. I have come that they may have life and have it in abundance. 

James: 1

¹² There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor?

The destruction of any human is only righteously due (from the viewpoint of Jehovah or his Son, who will judge the sheep and goats at time of the end). Jesus has been given the right to resurrect humans - so even if Satan or his associates have in some unrighteous way put someone to death (destroyed him so that his body decays, has a destructive process in the grave), it is not everlasting destruction or spiritual destruction, when the person is resurrected by Jesus. 

Many of those who were destroyed by Jehovah are not in Gehenna but in Sheol. Take as an example Dathan and Abiram. Moses wrote that the earth opened up and they went down "alive into sheol". Numbers 16:31 and 33. The Assyrians also went into sheol. Ezekiel 32: 21 an 22. So, not all destruction by God is necessarily eternal.

On the other hand all deliberate blasphemers will go to Gehenna - everlasting destruction / oblivion.

Everlasting destruction is righteous when Jesus leaves someone in death forever - Gehenna.  The wicked angels and Judas have been judged to go into Gehenna.   There is an unrighteous destruction  and a righteously judged destruction.  Adam went straight into the second death did he not?  The Canaanites were so wicked that archeologists wonder why god did not destroy them sooner..... but Jehovah used another nation as his tool to destroy them.  He also did this to Juda when their wickedness was so great - Babylon became the executioner.

Jesus is the image of his father.  While he is love (like his father) he is also destruction to those who disobey the father.  Revelation 19: at war of Armageddon he will act as a destroyer of all those who have morally and physically ruined the earth and sided with the enemies of Jehovah. 

rev 19:19 + 20 "And I saw the wild beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the one seated on the horse and against his army. ²⁰  And the wild beast was caught, and along with it the false prophet that performed in front of it the signs with which he misled those who received the mark of the wild beasti and those who worship its image. While still alive, they both were hurled into the fiery lake that burns with sulfur."

Jehu was anointed and given command to destroy the house of Ahab, so he was not blood guilty for following the command of Jehovah.

Jehovah has a purpose to destroy the entire world of wicked people at Armageddon and the executioner is Christ, riding on his white horse symbolizing righteous warfare. Just like in the flood, the earth will be cleansed. Unfortunately at this point in time people do not fear Jehovah as they should and go on eating and drinking and paying Him no attention.

I think there is more than enough evidence that Jehovah can destroy and Jesus can destroy ..... but they do this when someone has been righteously judged.  Not in all cases is It necessarily everlasting destruction, except at Armageddon.. 

Revelation 20: 1 - 3 clearly indicates that an angel of Jehovah has the key to the abyss. 

8 hours ago, Chioke Lin said:

ven the lexicons are being misapplied

I need to warn you that there are apostates on here - unfortunately. ....they twist things very much.  I am glad to see that you stand up to them in such an admirable way and correct any deviant thoughts.  Satan is a deceiver - so a thing may look right but on closer inspection it is leading the one without discernment astray.

I nevertheless have used this forum to find subjects to think about - and often do.... It is interesting to see things from your perspective.... 

21 hours ago, Witness said:

hovah - disaster/ruin

Summary of Nehemia Gordon (Scholar regarding the name Yehovah):   I  am often asked whether God’s name, Yehovah, is related to the Hebrew word for "disaster". The question starts off with the observation that the Hebrew word hovah means "disaster, calamity".

This word “hovah” appears three times in the Tanach, once in Isaiah and twice in a single verse in Ezekiel: "Evil is coming upon you which you will not know how to charm away; disaster (hovah) is falling upon you which you will not be able to appease; coming upon you suddenly is ruin of which you know nothing." (Isaiah 47:11) "Calamity (hovah) shall follow calamity (hovah), and rumor follow rumor. Then they shall seek vision from the prophet in vain; instruction shall perish from the priest, and counsel from the elders." (Ezekiel 7:26) Since hovah means "disaster" or "calamity", I am often asked, doesn't this mean that Yehovah also means "disaster" or "calamity".

I guess this makes sense to those innocent of basic Hebrew grammar, but in the Hebrew language this makes no sense. This would be like saying that the English word "assume" is derived from the word "ass" because when you ass-u-me you make an ass of you and me. Someone actually said this many years ago, and they were dead serious. Of course, an examination of any historical English dictionary will reveal that "assume" actually comes from the Latin verb "assume(re)" and not from the English word for a donkey.

Let's look at some Hebrew basics before we get ourselves in trouble assuming. With a few exceptions, every word in the Hebrew language has a three-letter root, something proven in the 11th century by the Spanish rabbi, Yonah Ibn Janah. Modern linguistics have confirmed this, observing that the three-letter root is a basic characteristic of all Semitic languages.

Whole Roots:

Most Hebrew roots are "whole" roots meaning all three letters of the root are present regardless of how the root is used in different grammatical forms. For example, the Hebrew root SH.M.R. has the basic meaning "to guard". Hebrew can use this root in dozens of ways, each with a different shade of meaning, such as the verbs SHaMaRti "I guarded" and hiShaMeR "be careful" (be on guard), the noun miSHMeRet meaning "duty" (which a person has to be on guard to keep), and the names SheMeR and SHoMRon. As a "whole" root, the letters shin, mem, resh, are always present in words derived from this root.

Hollow Roots:

The opposite of a "whole" root, is a "hollow" root. In "hollow" roots, one or more of the three letters of the root can be absent in certain grammatical forms. For example, the root BNH "to build" loses the third letter of the root in the verb baniti (spelled BNYty) "I built". In this form of the verb, the H of BNH drops and is replaced by a Yod.

If you didn't know about hollow verbs, and saw the word baniti, you might think the root was BNY, when in fact it is BNH.  .............Yehovah is from a Hollow Root. The name Yehovah derives from the three-letter root HYH which means "to be". We know this from Ex 3:14 in which the Almighty explains his name as "Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh". The word Ehyeh is an "imperfect" verb from the root HYH meaning "to be". In later Hebrew, the "imperfect" form took on the meaning of "future", but in Biblical Hebrew it primarily expresses a repetitive action. In plain English, Ehyeh means "I am now and I will continue to be in the future". This is why Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh can be translated as "I am that which I am", but also as "I will be that which I will be". Both of these translations are correct, even if they are a bit inaccurate. An accurate translation would be: "I am now, and will continue to be in the future, that which I am now, and will be continue to be in the future". That's quite a mouthful, and you can see why most translations prefer to dumb it down.

I just remembered - One of the first things I realized when I studied Arabic (also a Semitic language with 3 root consonants in most words) ...is that most verbs already assume that an existing person is carrying out the verb. So one does not say : I am playing this or that.  Most sentences are: I play..... the AM is not in the sentence. 

This is why a rare form of hollow root is used to express the I AM when speaking of Jehovah.