Witness

19 hours ago, Nana Fofana said:

WHAT KINGS IS THIS SCRIPTURE REFERRING TO ACCORDING TO YOU?:

You must be referring to Christ and his ruling “kings”.  

1 Tim 6:15; Rev 5:9,10; 1:5;22:22-24

The first to be the recipient of Ps 37:11,29 is the second Adam – Jesus Christ.  1 Cor 15:45,47  This was according to the promise God made with Abraham. Gen 28:13,14; Rom 4:13

“Ask of me,
and I will make the nations your inheritance
and the ends of the earth your possession.”  Ps 2:8

“For everything was created by him,
in heaven and on earth,
the visible and the invisible,
whether thrones or dominions
or rulers or authorities—
all things have been created through him and for him.” Col 1:16

And…Heb 1:2; 1 Cor 15:28; Eph 1:10,20,21; Matt 28:18 

The second who inherit the earth within the family line of God’s children are the “144,000” Gal 3:29,26  Jesus is the firstborn of God; the anointed within his body are the “firstborn” to receive life from him.  John 5:21

If there are firstborn children, they are more to come; in abundance. 1 Cor 5:23

The Bride is the fulfilled covenant/woman/promise – “Sarah” of Gal 4:24,26; 1 Pet 3:14; Acts 3:25; Rom 4:13,16; 9:8; Gal 3:22,24,26,28,29 

I think you are having difficulty in accepting the definition of “new creation”; that these “kings” can be both human and spirit.  Rev 5:9,10 says they will reign on the earth.  We also see scriptures showing them in a heavenly form; (Rev 20:6; 1:20; 8:2,6; Josh 6:4; Mal 2:7);and as I brought out to Arauna on another thread, there are many scriptures that verify their being on earth. 

The first resurrection is complete when the New Covenant/promise is fulfilled by the “144,000” reaching completion.  They are the first to receive life through Christ, and they are the first to be judged as worthy of life, which takes place now. Eph.2:5; Rev.20:6; John6:50,51,58; 1John3:14; 5:13   Those not anointed can be in line for a “resurrection” to life, now; but it is fulfilled when the  Kingdom arrives and all of Abraham’s seed are made “sons of God”.  Acts 24:15; 1 John 2:2

19 hours ago, Nana Fofana said:

ARE EARTHLY KINGS ALLOWED TO BURN INCENSE "TO JEHOVAH" NOW ,OR IS THERE AN EARTHLY PRIESTHOOD NOW AUTHORIZED TO DO THAT ?  [maybe there is. I don't know. I don't know if it's forbidden like in Uzziah's or Korah's day, but doesn't strike me as a good idea]-

  https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/forums/topic/50063-the-role-of-the-anointed-ones-in-the-last-days/

 

2 hours ago, Nana Fofana said:

No- one seed grows into tree [root and branch of Jesse] that will fill the whole earth.  

There was a covenant/promise made with the literal nation of Israel, for a seed, who was the Messiah.  That was the old covenant. Heb 8:7,13  He also came from Abraham as his seed; and from Jesus, all other families would be blessed... Acts 13:23,32; Gal 3:16

…through another promise, the New Covenant that Jesus made with his disciples on the night of his last meal with them.             

“In the same way he also took the cup after supper and said, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.”  Luke 22:20

 The anointed ones are also Abraham’s seed that is produced once the New Covenant is fulfilled/given birth to the “new creation”. 2 Cor 5:17 To get there, they also sacrifice their lives as Jesus sacrificed his life, which was firstly for them, and for all the children of promise.  Gal 4:26; Rev 20:4-6  The “144,000” have followed Jesus’ example and given their life in order for the rest of God’s children to obtain life. John 12:24; Rev 6:9,11; Rom 8:19-21  As a “new creation” Kingdom promise/”mother”covenant, the rest of Abraham’s seed gains life.  Rom 4:13; Gen 28:13,14; Rev 22:1,2,17

Jesus, the Bride, the rest of God’s children are all Abraham’s promised seed; and in succession, all inherit the earth. 

This age-old question has been the subject of children, science and everyone in between since its written origin in ancient Greek history. Depending on what source you read today, they think they’ve nailed down the answer; and it appears to go either way.

Here is an easier question:

What comes first, birth or birth pains? We know this answer, but when it comes to the arrival of God’s Kingdom, the Watchtower does not.

From the NWT: In answer Jesus said to them: “Look out that nobody misleads you, for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many. You are going to hear of wars and reports of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for these things must take place, but the end is not yet. “For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. All these things are a BEGINNING OF PANGS OF DISTRESS. “ Matt 24: 4-8

The Watchtower teaches that God’s Kingdom arrived in 1914 in the heavens. This event is to be interpreted as the beginning of the signs of “pangs of distress”, their choice of translation. Certainly, the world clearly shows distress evident in the wars, famines, pestilences and earthquakes.

The Greek word for Wt.’s use of “pangs of distress” (ōdin) literally means pains related to child birth – labor pains.
This truth is found in Watchtower’s Greek Interlinear, reading word for word:

“All but these (things) beginning of pangs of birth”.

Why isn’t it read this way when translating the scripture on the same page? The Watchtower would be held responsible for explaining how the birth of God’s Kingdom supposedly arrives before birth pains. “The Kingdom is Born in heaven”, according to the “kr”, chapter 2; yet ironically, it appears to be followed by birth pains.

From “What Does the Bible Teach?” - “Just as Jesus predicted, his “presence” as heavenly King has been marked by dramatic world developments—war, famine, earthquakes, pestilences. (Matthew 24:3-8; Luke 21:11) Such developments bear powerful testimony to the fact that 1914 indeed marked the BIRTH of God’s Heavenly Kingdom and the BEGINNING of “the last days” (LABOR PAINS!) of this present wicked system of things.—2 Timothy 3:1-5.

How clever of them to change the “beginning of birth pains” (“pains of distress”) to “the beginning of the last days”!

Concerning the focusing of our eyes on Satan’s world for signs of the coming Kingdom, it is not Satan’s corrupt world that is in labor, it is the promised New Covenant that gives “birth” to God’s Kingdom. This ‘birthing’ is not complete until the full number of Kingdom heirs are sealed in the heavens; but not before they individually experience spiritual “labor/birth pains”, resulting from Satan’s demand to test each one. John 18:36; 17:16; Rev 12:1-6; Luke 22:31; Mark 13:13; John16: 2; Rev 2:9,10,13,17,7,24,26,28; 6:9,11; 3:5,9,12,21,22 
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/…

Watchtower 14/1/15 - “Let your Kingdom come”: God’s Kingdom came in 1914 when Jesus was made King in heaven. God’s Kingdom will also come in the future when Jesus destroys the wicked."

Here is where they have derived their thought:

“Therefore, you should pray like this:
Our Father in heaven,
Your name be honored as holy.
Your kingdom come.
Your will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us today our daily bread.
And forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
And do not bring us into temptation,
but deliver us from the evil one.
For Yours is the kingdom and the power
and the glory forever. Amen." Matt 6:9-13

Their comment has taken scripture out of context. Can the Kingdom of God arrive via two births at two different times? Obviously, God’s Kingdom has NOT come IN ANY FORM, as Satan is still here.

On 1/6/2018 at 11:08 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

Is 9:6  For to us a child is born,
    to us a son is given,
    and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
    Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
    Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

 

At the end of God’s promise covenants, a seed is produced.  Jesus was the promised seed of the old covenant and as that seed, fulfilled God’s promise.   He is the promise of life, if we accept him Mark 9:7

The New Covenant will also produce a ‘seed’. Gal 3:7,14,29;4:28,31,26  This seed is the Bride of Christ/”144,000”, fulfilled; as a result of the “first resurrection” to life.   Gal 4:26; 1 Pet 1:23 Rev 3:21; 20:4-6  She is the promised seed of the New Covenant – a “new creation”, and the promise of life, if we accept her.  Matt 5:14; 10:40; 1 Tim 4:16

At that point, one more eternal covenant/promise with God begins -  the Kingdom Covenant, for the rest of Abraham’s seed.  At the “second resurrection”, and when the Bride “comes down out of heaven”, the rest of God’s children receive life on earth.  Ps 37:11,29; Dan 2:44; Exod 37:25; Rev 21:2

Jesus is the savior through his sacrifice, for the “first fruits” - for his wife/Bride/144,000/New Jerusalem/faithful anointed priests and kings.  They become one  Eph 5:23,25-27,30  He is also the savior for God’s spiritual children that come from the bond with his “wife”/New Covenant promise fulfilled.  Rev 22:17   In this way, Jesus is the “Eternal Father”, bringing life to all, through the ransom sacrifice.  John 8:12; 1 John 2:2; Isa 9:6; 1 Cor 15:45 

I hope this makes sense.  

On 1/6/2018 at 2:16 PM, Arauna said:

Jesus did not come back in the flesh and ‘live’ amongst the people on earth did he?   He came back for only 50 days before he went back to his father.

You aren't putting a time limit on Christ's abilities, are you?

“Again, when he brings his firstborn into the world, he says, And let all God's angels worship him.”  Heb 1:6

Approximately 2,000 years ago, God established His “organization” through His Son.  It is the chosen Body of Christ. 

So the Jews answered and said to Him, “What sign do You show to us, since You do these things?”

¹⁹ Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”

²⁰ Then the Jews said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?”

²¹ But He was speaking of the temple of His body. ²² Therefore, when He had risen from the dead, His disciples remembered that He had said this to them; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had said.  John 2:18-22

Before this, the early temples and the tabernacle under Moses, were built in great detail – in an organized way -  following God’s decrees on how they were built and how worship was to be given to Him.  We have the records of this in the Bible.  It was an “organized” worship.  The pattern followed was already layed out –

“For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices. Therefore it is necessary that this One also have something to offer. ⁴ For if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer the gifts according to the law; ⁵ who serve the copy and shadow of the heavenly things, as Moses was divinely instructed when he was about to make the tabernacle. For He said, “See that you make all things according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.”   Heb 8:3-5

The early temple arrangement was abolished with the appearance of Christ, although the majority refused to accept it. Acts 7:48-51  His Body replaced this arrangement – an organized arrangement that is reaching its fulfillment and will be seen through the existence of the “144,000” both in heavenly form and in human form, in the Kingdom of God. Rom 12:4-8;  This is Zion – the Temple of God, built on the foundation of Christ’s body and faithful, sealed, “living stones”.  Acts 7:49; Matt 16:18; Eph 2:20-22

Around a hundred years ago, another “arrangement” began developing; a counterfeit.  Slowly it has come about, yet, also rather quickly compared to 2,000 years for each faithful “living stone” to be placed eternally in Zion. 1 Pet 2:5,9 The counterfeit has morphed into the perceived epitome of salvation.  Zion has always been the dwelling of God. Since Christ, that dwelling has not left Christ’s “Body” – his anointed priesthood.  It has not transformed into an earthly organization with its own “arrangement”.  It has remained the same as God established it; in Christ, who is its foundation along with the apostles.  1 Cor 3:11; Eph 2:20

Within this relatively new counterfeit, are sub counterfeits of the true arrangement by God. 

·       The Body of Elders replacing the Body of Christ – the anointed ones. Ezek 44:7-9; Matt 24:15

·       Salvation through an “image” – the organization, and calling it “Zion”; replacing salvation through the true Zion – God’s Temple within the Body of Christ and he as its Head.  Rev 13:14,15

·       Although the organization calls Christ its Head; obedience is given to all direction of the GB; thus, they have taken the place of Christ.  The anointed Body must obey a counterfeit head before obeying Christ, who is their true and only HEAD. You hear/see the governing body, making easy to do what they say.  It requires faith and a willing heart to “hear”/”see” the direction of Holy Spirit from Christ.  Matt 24:4,5; Luke 22:24-27; Rev 3:18

·       Looking toward physical signs as fulfillment of scripture, replacing the spiritual signs coming against God’s chosen “kings”, made evident with the blessing of Holy Spirit.  It is the contrast that Satan’s earthly realm will bring about Armageddon, compared to the “heavenly” war already raging, which takes spiritual discernment.  Luke 11:29; Eph 6:12; Col 2:8

·       God’s “witnesses” defined as all JWs, replacing the true witnesses of his spiritual nation, “Israel”.  That definition began in truth, but has now been tossed aside. Isa 43:10; 44:8; 1 Pet 2:5,9,10; Rev 11:1-3                                                                                                

·       The dwelling of God’s Spirit taught to be the organization, (spirit-directed) replacing His true dwelling found in the hearts of the anointed ones. Rev 13:11,12,14,15

·       The “good news” preached as Christ ruling only since 1914 and a peaceful “thousand years” to follow after Armageddon; counteracting the “good news” of the redemption of spiritual “Israel” and Christ’s rule as beginning once he ascended, which was the true beginning of the “Thousand Year Reign of Christ”. Jer 31:22,23,21; Matt 10:23; Rev 1:11; Isa 43:1; Ps 110:1,2; Dan 7:25

·       The “short period of time” of Satan’s deceit as coming twice; both during the great tribulation, and after an assumed “thousand years” of peace (when he is released for a “little while”)  Do you remember anywhere in scripture where Satan has two ‘little whiles’/’short periods of time’ to mislead God’s people? There is only one, and it is now; present as his counterfeit production of “truth”.  2 Thess 2:5-9; Rev 20:1-3; 9:1-6; 12:12

·       The presence of both a true “wicked slave” and a true “faithful and discreet slave” during the time of the end.  Matt 24:48-51 Which would be easier to accept as the FDS slave, one boasting that he is so, or one supplying “proper food at the proper time” as a despised one, already tossed out by a “wicked slave”, wicked “steward” over God’s household of anointed ones?  Luke 16:11-13; 1 Cor 1:28

Within a century, this counterfeit arrangement has magnified itself as “the truth”.  God’s Word tells us that Christ is “the Truth”. One is a delusion, one is authentic. Jesus always has been “the Truth”, and made this known when he came to earth. John 1:1-5   The delusion of 2 Thess 2:9-12 was fabricated to come against the anointed ones -to “trample” God’s spiritual Temple, and it has been fulfilled within the Watchtower.  The Body of Elders “sits” in God’s Temple, standing “over” the anointed ones. 

Satan has been successful producing a most convincing lie – called “the truth”.  All of it, is approximately a one hundred year old…delusion.  Isa 41:28,29  The organization repeatedly returns to the time of the early temple arrangement to justify its “organization” and its many building endeavors. They repeatedly lead you back to Moses’ day, dismissing God’s own arrangement through Christ.  The GB has taken “Moses’ seat”, forgetting that is Christ’s place now.  Matt 23:1-6

All counterfeits created through the organization are to mislead the anointed ones.  God’s Kingdom is soon to come, and Satan knows this.  He knows his kingdom will be destroyed, since he has been battling against Christ’s seed with his own his seed, at the point God predicted it; and which culminates in Armageddon before his end. Gen 3:15  So why not make the best of it and create a fake Zion/”mountain-like organization” to mislead and destroy the last unsealed priestly kings with him?  This is the true battle of Armageddon.   Rev 20:7-10

Mount Zion is “Daughter Zion” – the holy people, where the spirit of God dwells within their hearts.  It isn’t an organization created by men.  It never has been.  Fallen anointed ones, used by Satan, have been instrumental in creating this delusion. Impossible?  God’s chosen ones have been known to be corrupted by power and riches over the centuries.  Rev 8:10,11; 9:1,2 

“The law will go out of Zion”. Isa 2:3  How?  Through the “dwelling of God” who are the new creation, bringing God’s decrees and guidance from heaven to earth.  They carry the “law written on the heart”, and they will carry it from “heaven” to earth where God’s children will reside.   

“Many nations shall come and say, “Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, (God’s Temple found within the “144,000”) To the house of the God of Jacob; He will teach us His ways, And we shall walk in His paths.” For out of Zion the law shall go forth, And the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.”  Micah 4:2

When you read Rev 21:1-4, how do you suppose God will “dwell” among the people, if not through “New Jerusalem”, the Bride coming down from heaven. 

I hope you can see this.  It is not a hit or miss guidance through a counterfeit body of elders, that as you say “does a pretty good job”. 

Thank you so much for your scriptures. 

In reference to your scriptures,

“Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. ⁵¹ Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— ⁵² in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. ⁵³ For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. ⁵⁴ So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.” 1 Cor 15:50-54

After the second resurrection, won’t God’s children who are mortal, gain “immortality”?  Won’t all lose their corrupted bodies?  The “change” of the anointed ones is the “new creation” that will be fully complete, in a “twinkling of an eye”.   When in spirit, they are in “heaven” – not “flesh and blood”.  When on the earth, they will be immortal. 

Can you see from your use of Heb 12:22,(23) and Phil 3:20 that heaven is a spiritual state once reached, where one’s name will be written in heaven?  Luke 10:20

Eph 2:6 -  “He also raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavens in Christ Jesus”

  Were the writers in heaven when they wrote those verses?  No.  Anointed ones who have been tried and found faithful, can be sealed while still on the earth. 1 Pet 1:23; James 1:18; 1 Pet 1:3; 1 John 3:9

The following scriptures are from the other topic I linked to in my previous comment.

“Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away, and see, the new has come!”   2 Cor 5:17  Gal 6:15

A “new creation” of both human and angel.

 “sown a natural body, raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.  So it is written, The first man Adam became a living being; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.  However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, then the spiritual.  The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven. Like the man of dust, so are those who are of the dust; like the man of heaven, so are those who are of heaven. And just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we will also bear the image of the man of heaven.”  1 Cor 15:44-49

 “Don't you yourselves know that you are God's temple and that the Spirit of God lives in you?” 1 Cor 3:16

The 144,000 are the Bride of Christ/Temple/Holy City – which comes down from heaven.

Now, if the Bride is in Christ and Christ is in God through Holy Spirit, (John 17:22) and the “Holy City” is God’s Temple, how is the “Holy City” going to come down from heaven without the Bride and Christ?  It isn’t a literal building, but is the Holy Spirit within the new creation/Temple.  How will God “dwell” among mankind if not through his Temple?  Rev 3:12

 “Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.  And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.   ”  Rev 21:2,3

Can you see it?  Can you see this ‘mobile’ Temple in the sealed anointed ones?  

“For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building.”  1 Cor 3:9

“And have made us kings and priests to our God; And we shall reign on the earth.”  Rev 5:0

“Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.  And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”  Acts 1:9-11

“Now Jacob went out from Beersheba and went toward Haran. ¹¹ So he came to a certain place and stayed there all night, because the sun had set. And he took one of the stones of that place and put it at his head, and he lay down in that place to sleep. ¹² Then he dreamed, and behold, a ladder was set up on the earth, and its top reached to heaven; and there the angels of God were ascending and descending on it.  Gen 28:10-12

“And He said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, hereafter you shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of Man.”  John 1:51

There is no descending in heaven, is there?  Where would Jesus be descending to with his angels/messengers (Mal 2:7), if not to earth?

Jesus received two “births”, one of flesh, one from God.  So, too, do those within his Body.  John 3:6; Col 2:9  He is the Son of Man, and the Son of God. Matt 12:8; Mark 8:29; 9:7

Jesus inherits the earth; he shares it firstly, with the “firstborn” and then the rest of God’s children. Gen 28:12-14; Ps 37:11,29  If the earth is Christ’s inheritance, should he not be allowed to enjoy it and walk among what he created with God?

"Heaven must receive him until the time of the restoration of all things, which God spoke about through his holy prophets from the beginning.”  Acts 3:21

“Again, when he brings his firstborn into the world, he says, And let all God's angels worship him.”  Heb 1:6

On 12/28/2017 at 4:00 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

... this reminded me now on Law about food in OT Israel. Some food was "unclean" according to Law given by god. Before the Law and after the Law food have no etiquette - "pure/clean"  or "unclean". 

I am learning the depth of these words, Srecko;

“Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again: Rejoice!  Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near.  Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

 Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things.  Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me—put it into practice. And the God of peace will be with you.”  Phil 4:4-9

It is how one reaches purity of conscience. 

On 1/4/2018 at 6:34 AM, Arauna said:

This to me sounds like a bunch of people who want to see themselves as a special class of teachers...... and walk around amongst the earthly Amaharets as privileged heavenly ones.....like the fathers of the Nephilim of old.... same wish for more than their allotted attention.  

I am dumbfounded by your condemnatory words against the anointed who are AMONG you; how anything about them is assumed as haughtiness, while the GB in all their high-minded glory has instituted judgment against them if they disagree with their doctrine, using their own false priests to carry out the verdict. Isa 66:5; Matt 24:48-51; Luke 12:11,12; John 16:2; 1 Cor 4:8; Rev 11:1-3,7,8  You are condoning the judging of God’s priests by the elders.

Rom 8:33,34 - Who dares to bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34 Who then is the one who rightly condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us."

1Cor.6:2 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? 3Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! "

John20:21-23: " Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.”  And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.  If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

In other words, you are saying the priests/kings are to only reign in heaven, not on the earth - although scriptures say otherwise, Rev 5:9,10. They are going to remain quiet up there, just as they are in the organization.  Since it is the elder body that will continue to “rule” over all, as a “special class of teachers”…replacing the “new creation”, of both human and spirit. 1 Pet 1:23; 2 Cor 5:17; Heb 12:22  Or…maybe you believe that the ‘lofty’ position in heaven that the GB, who are most certain they will obtain, (Phil 2:12) will allow them to continue authorizing an elder body to be the “princes” on earth, instead of the chosen ones.  Chosen – by God, and not men.

Is this what you think? Was it an act of arrogance when Christ appeared to the disciples in bodily form after he was resurrected?  This High Priest continued to teach his followers – his under priests once he was resurrected.  He is the Head of the anointed Body of Christ, of which each member is to be one in him. They are to be inseparable. Eph 1:22; John 15:16; Rom 12:4,5; 1 Cor 12:25  In the Kingdom, they are the Bride of their Husband – the Bride/New Jerusalem that comes down out of heaven.  1 Pet 2:21; Rev 3:12  Arauna, that is only possible if they are both spirit and human.

Please, l beg you and all JWs to learn who these anointed ones are, who reside with you under “captivity” in the organization. Rev 13:1,5-7,10; 20:9 You, along with the majority of JWs of the organization, are blind to God’s own New Covenant arrangement with spiritual “Israel”; an arrangement that is perfection, bringing healing to the nations.  The anointed are the symbolic “trees”, prepared through rigorous testing to benefit all of God’s children. The Tree of life is Christ (John 6:57; Rev 2:7); his “trees” that obtain the Kingdom also will carry sustaining life to all.  Luke 6:44,45; Rev 11:3,4; Zech 4:3,4,12-14 The elders do not carry God’s laws within their heart, allowing them to teach as God intended; they carry a man contrived set of rules. Do you really think God would prefer them over His anointed ones to heal and teach the nations?  Not according to scripture.

“Then he showed me the river of the water of life, clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb  down the middle of the city’s main street. The tree of life was on each side of the river, bearing twelve kinds of fruit, producing its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree are for healing the nations,  and there will no longer be any curse.”  Rev 22:1-3

 You are blind to who are the authentic “witnesses” of God, and the true teachers He has appointed, and who will “follow the Lamb wherever he goes”; if and only if they submit to refinement of sins, idolatry, false prophesy, and false teachings by an “Ephraim” who has removed the boundary (of the meaning of God’s nation) and teaches “human precepts”. Matt 10:24-27; Luke 3:9

“But finding fault with his people, he says: See, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah not like the covenant
that I made with their ancestors
on the day I took them by the hand
to lead them out of the land of Egypt.
I showed no concern for them, says the Lord,
because they did not continue in my covenant.
 For this is the covenant
that I will make with the house of Israel
after those days, says the Lord:
I will put my laws into their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.  Heb 8:8-10

Spiritual “Israel” – the anointed ones who carry the law of God within them.  Because of this, they are able and required to teach the people.

“For the lips of a priest should guard knowledge, and people should desire instruction from his mouth, because he is the messenger of the Lord of Armies.”  Mal 2:7

This instruction is given in the manner Jesus, who fulfilled the law – carried the law within himself, instructed while on earth.  Is this haughty, or a blessed arrangement by God?

Now this is what the Lord says—
the one who created you, Jacob,
and the one who formed you, Israel—
“Do not fear, for I have redeemed you;
I have called you by your name; you are mine.

“You are my witnesses”—
this is the Lord’s declaration—
“and my servant whom I have chosen,
so that you may know and believe me
and understand that I am he.
No god was formed before me,
and there will be none after me. Isa 43:1,10

“As you come to him, a living stone—rejected by people but chosen and honored by God—  you yourselves, as living stones, a spiritual house, are being built to be a holy priesthood to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 

 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his possession, so that you may proclaim the praisesof the one who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.  Once you were not a people, but now you are God’s people; you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.”  1 Pet 2:5,9,10

They, the priesthood, are the nation of God.  The remnant who come out of the great tribulation – purged of all sin taught by the Harlot; refined through affliction to serve God and Christ and accepted as vessels to teach mankind through God’s arrangement. There is nothing haughty about it, since following Christ requires sacrifice.  They are not their own - they belong to God; yet, in the Watchtower they, and their companions, have become slaves of men. 1 Cor 7:23; Rom 6:16

Those who accept the falsehood that “the day of the Lord has come” in 1914, choose also the lie about the anointed ones, over this truth.    2 Thess 2:1,2,9-12; John 13:20

Scriptures are needed, Arauna, to prove the truth from God’s Word.  Otherwise, it is the blind leading the blind.  Is this your choice?

The “helpers” in Moses’ day were directly approved by God.  Num 11:16,17,25   Through the anointing, God has directly chosen his priests. 1 John 2:27

I also went to a Catholic school as did my siblings; and then was shunned because my mother pulled me out in the 6^th grade to attend a different school that gave greater variety of classes.  Amid rulers slapped over the wrists, pulled hair by the nuns, and the highbrow looks my father received for his meager donations from a family with little money, he did not deter from his devotion as a Catholic.   During a brief time during these years, a JW was making calls on my mother regularly, until his suggestive looks, actions and comments sent him packing.

These two religions, as well as all centralized religions share the same characteristics that I do see in the points above.  The Catholic church has relaxed its standards, but not so the Watchtower which has only tightened the reigns.  I scrutinized the list to make sure it compared to the reality…of the Watchtower.  Perhaps because I have run the whole gamut, I clearly see how all points apply.

Jesus said true worshipers of God will worship in Spirit and truth, and that no earthly “mountain” is the source of our worship. This means no centralized religion within this world can receive God’s favor; except the only “organization” that He himself instituted; the anointed Body of Christ and authentic Temple of God.  John 4:21-24; 1Cor.3:16; 1Pet.2:5,9-10; Eph.2:20-22

"Just because all prostitutes wear shoes ... does not mean that everyone who wears shoes are prostitutes."

But their companionship can bring a man to ruin.  Prov 5:1-20; 6:26; Jer 14:14-16; Rev 18:4-8

^“Pure and undefiled religion before God the Father is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself unstained from the world.”  James 1:27

These are well done videos that I shared here a few years ago.  Someone  may find them enlightening.

The Channel of God Part 1 The Walsh Trial Jehovah's Witnesses   

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TLbffsuyz0&t=845s

Channel of God P2 Simple Brotherhood to Centralized Authority Jehovah's Witnesses

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTL2CFl7434

The Channel of God P3 From Simple Brotherhood to Centralized Authority Jehovah's Witnesses

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpEHVaMn9Ok

8 hours ago, JW Insider said:

 To me, it makes much more sense that this was a great danger, much more of a dangerous "apostasy" than being concerned with what sort of a body Jesus would have when he would return.

Thank you, I can see that; but also it is good to keep in mind that John mentioned in his previous book,

“Children, it is the last hour. And as you have heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. By this we know that it is the last hour.  They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.  1 John 2:18,19

I believe it is possible that those who left were anointed ones, since he speaks to the anointed in the next verse.  1 John 2:20  These are the “false christs” and false prophets that Jesus warned would deceive, and “by their fruits” we would know them.  Matt 24:24; Matt 7:17-19

Teaching that the 144,000 have strictly a “heavenly hope”, and that Jesus would not return to the earth is a great apostasy. The GB is responsible for fostering this lie.  The true meaning of the “new creation” is lost; that of Christ, as well as the priesthood, walking and teaching among all of God’s children in human form on the earth, as well as serving the Father and Christ in heaven as spirit creatures.    Not only are the anointed deprived of truth about themselves, but so are the entire 8 million, and those who have died over the years.  I remember a friend lamenting that she would miss her anointed husband once in the Kingdom, understanding she would never see him again.  The “heavenly” vs. “earthly” class system have left many with a resentful feeling toward anointed ones; especially those leaving the organization. The anointed, as “firstfruits” inherit the earth and share this inheritance with the rest of mankind –the “Bride’s” spiritual children.  Gal 3:29; Rev 21:2; John 1:51; Zech 8:23; Rom 2:28,28; Luke 10:16; John 13:20

How the Wt. teaches Jesus’ return is only part of the tangled ball of yarn. This affects the New Covenant teaching as well.  By the anointed in charge choosing not to reveal truth about how Christ will be on earth with his Bride/priesthood, shows they are…“anti-Christ”.

On 12/29/2017 at 11:07 AM, Matthew9969 said:

I could add a few more signs.

Me, too.

"Don’t become idolaters as some of them were; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, ("spiritual food") and got up to party."  1 Cor 10:7

On 12/31/2017 at 10:08 PM, Arauna said:

Speaking to you is like speaking to a Muslim.

On 12/31/2017 at 10:08 PM, Arauna said:

The muslims believe that Jesus is going to come back in the flesh 

I’m not a Muslim, but I do believe Jesus will return in the flesh with his messenger/angels/144,000.

 “Many deceivers have gone out into the world; they do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist. 2 John 1:7 CSB

(Check Wt’s Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures)

Could John be referencing the future coming of Christ in the flesh? The “many deceivers” were already well aware of Jesus Christ; thus, they knew he had been ‘in the flesh’ as a man; so possibly this refers to his future coming, or his ascension. At any rate, the Bible usage of “coming” defines it as coming and going.

^“After he had said this, he was taken up as they were watching, and a cloud took him out of their sight.  While he was going, they were gazing into heaven, and suddenly two men in white clothes stood by them.  They said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking up into heaven? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come (same word found in 2 John 1:7)  in the same way that you have seen him going into heaven.”  Acts 1:9-11

It gives full indication of Christ’s going and his future coming, in the same way – as the apostles saw him appear to them in the flesh after he was resurrected.  John 21:14; Mark 16:12  The apostle John was aware that Jesus said to Nathanael:

 “Do you believe because I told you I saw you under the fig tree? You will see greater things than this.”  Then he said, “Truly I tell you, you will see heaven opened and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man.”  John 1:50,51

Is mankind going to peer into heaven and view the angels (“144,000”) ascending and descending on Christ while in heaven?

Jacob saw a symbolic ladder/stairway in his dream:

“And he dreamed: A stairway was set on the ground with its top reaching the sky, and God’s angels were going up and down on it.“   Gen 28:12

Who are these messenger/angels?

“And they sang a new song:

You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
because you were slaughtered,
and you purchased^[a] people^[b]
for God by your blood
from every tribe and language
and people and nation.

You made them a kingdom
and priests to our God,
and they will reign on the earth.”  Rev 5:9,10

“Priests” – “ For the lips of a priest should guard knowledge, and people should desire instruction from his mouth, because he is the messenger of the Lord of Armies.”  Mal 2:7

“But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his possession, so that you may proclaim the praises of the one who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.”  1 Pet 2:9

Can you see that the “144,000” faithful priests to serve God and Christ as the Bride coming down from heaven, will be with Christ both in heaven and on earth? Rev 21:2  Both Christ and the Bride will be ascending into heaven and descending to the “ground” at various times. Rev 22:17,1,2   There is no other way to explain these two scriptures. 

The “new creation” of both human and spirit, which enables this to occur, was covered in our last conversation on this thread: https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/topic/34048-why-doesnt-the-society-translate-and-provide-the-russian-court-transcripts-for-us/?page=10&tab=comments#comment-72045

On 12/31/2017 at 10:08 PM, Arauna said:

Question: how can they accomplish the preaching work which will be done in an organized way to ALL the earth before the end comes? Jehovah is a god of order not disorder....      

The “man of lawlessness” which “sits” in the Temple of God - the replacing of the priesthood with the elder body/ false priesthood - performs the works of Satan “with all power, signs and lying wonders. 2 Thess 2:9  But, if you’ll remember, the true preaching work during the time of the end is to spiritual “Israel”. Matt.10:23; Isa.48:20; Jer.31:11  The scripture is there and can’t be ignored.   How has God accomplished his work in the past?  He has used few individuals to come against the majority – Elijah, Jeremiah, Isaiah, Amos, Jonah, etc. – the majority of His people.  1 Kings 19:3,4,9-18; Jer 1:4-10; Isa 6:6-13 As we have seen in the history of God’s people, Holy Spirit in an individual accomplished what was needed to get accomplished, and how it was said.  You seem to doubt the power of God? Is the power of the organization greater than the power of God? Rev 13:4,11-15  Do you doubt the Holy Spirit within an individual that leads them to truth in Christ?  Do you have to “see” great signs, or can you have faith that Jesus will lead each acceptable heart to truth?  

Rev 11 - Then I was given a measuring reed like a rod, with these words: “Go and measure the temple of God (the holy priesthood) and the altar, and count those who worship there. ² But exclude the courtyard outside the temple. Don’t measure it, because it is given to the nations, and they will trample the holy city for forty-two months. ³ I will grantmy two witnesses authority to prophesy for 1,260 days, dressed in sackcloth.”  Rev 11:1-3

“Two” represents truth.  Christ emboldens his “witnesses” with authority to expose lies. 2 Thess 2:7,8 These anointed ones and others who take up the call with them have been “killed”/disfellowshipped for refuting the GB’s/organization’s false teachings. Rev 11:7-10 Pretty hard to fathom since God has been quiet for a long while. Isa 42:14-25  Since the Temple has been trampled upon by the elder body; since it has been given over to the “Gentiles”/nations, since Revelation’s Beasts are found in the Wt., what’s next?  Matt 24:16; Rev 18:4-8

  We have the internet now, bringing news from around the world in an instant , Arauna.  One person blessed with God’s Spirit, can reach thousands.  Joining that one person, are many more.  Please, don’t forget that Jesus knows his sheep and will lead them to “living water” if they are truly searching for truth. Or have you forgotten this power?    Do you really believe that God is blessing a “preaching work” fraught with dark holes of empty, trashed, doctrine; (Col 2:8) and which rejects Christ’s anointed Body, favoring the “Gentile” elder body over God’s appointment?  Rejecting the anointed in the capacity they have been given, is rejecting Christ; which is a full indication of “anti-Christ”.  Heb 10:29

 “And I, brethren, when I came to you, did not come with excellence of speech or of wisdom declaring to you the testimony of God.  For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. (Maybe Paul was OCD)  I was with you in weakness, in fear, and in much trembling.  And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,  that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.”  1 Cor 2:1-5

On 12/31/2017 at 10:08 PM, Arauna said:

Your chronology has NO logic..... it does not fit.... and half the prophecies can be thrown out with the way you present the dates.

Are you talking to me?  The only date I mentioned was 1914. 

I believe to Anna you said, "world events since 1914 has proven that it is a 'reality'."

Only in JW world.  You teach that the “birth of the Kingdom” (1914) came before the labor pains.    How do you account for such a phenomenon?

Jesus replied to them: “Watch out that no one deceives you. ⁵ For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and they will deceive many. 

“As regards the Christian congregation, Jesus Christ is the only one rightly bearing the title “Leader,” because no imperfect human is the leader of true Christians; they follow Christ.” it-2 pp. 228-229

I totally agree.

“WHO is your leader?” That is a question often put to Jehovah’s Witnesses. And no wonder! In many religions, one man or one woman acts as leader, or chief. In contrast, we are proud to tell those who inquire that our Leader is not an imperfect human. Rather, we follow the lead of the resurrected Christ, who in turn follows the lead of his Father, Jehovah.—Matt. 23:10”.  Wt 2/17/ pp 18-22

Truth.  This is the truth that you “preach” at the door, right?  I came from a Catholic background and was convinced that this organization was not anything like the Catholic church, with a pope as head.  How wrong I was.

“As anointed Christians, the members of that slave “keep following the Lamb no matter where he goes.” (Rev. 14:4) As we follow their direction, (lead) therefore, we follow our Leader, Jesus. Soon, he will lead us to everlasting life. (Rev. 7:14-17) And no human leader can promise that!  es18 pp. 88-97”

A transition is happening; from only Christ as our Leader, to a human leader promising that by following their direction - their lead -  one is following Christ.

“But we are acting against Jehovah’s purpose if we do not obey the faithful and discreet slave or if we choose to obey only what we think is important.” ws11 7/15 pp. 17-2

Following a faithful anointed one’s spiritual direction through scriptures, is one thing; but requiring strict obedience to the person, with consequences for not doing so, is blasphemy;  since Jesus is our only Master and Leader.  Could the GB be called a “false Messiah”?  Indeed!   “For when one says, “I am of Paul,” and another, “I am of Apollos,” are you not carnal?” 1 Cor 3:4

Through Holy Spirit, we can discern what is truth and what is not, and no man can judge us according to another’s faulty doctrine. James 4:12  The Watchtower teaches madness, pure drunkenness, sourced from a Harlot’s cup. Rev 17:1,2  Occasionally, such as the above quotes, they show you both spectrums, then teach the lie.  Are you not still following humans that expect your obedience? 1 Cor 4:6,7 What other anointed one besides the GB has the assumed ability to spiritually “kill” through disfellowshipping for rejection of doctrine?  Rev 11:7; 13:11,14,15

⁶ You are going to hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, because these things must take place, but the end is not yet. ⁷ For nation will rise up against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines^[a] and earthquakes in various places. ⁸ All these events are the beginning of labor pains. Matt 24:4-8

I have given you proof through scriptures, which I wonder if you have even attempted to read.  You give me your rebuttal in words only.

 ^“And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,  that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.” 1 Cor 2:4,5

^“ For the kingdom of God is not in word but in power.” 1 Cor 4:20

“These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.”  1 Cor 2:13

"So he answered me, "This is the word of the Lord to Zerubbabel:  'Not by strength or my might, but by my Spirit,' says the Lord of Armies"  Zech 4:6

Since the GB is not inspired, the organization relies on men's strength and might, not on Spirit - at least not God's Spirit.  Rev 16:13-16

  The “Great Crowd” has its’ own topic under Bible Discussion. 

“For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.  But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; ²⁸ and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, ²⁹ that no flesh should glory in His presence.

This includes the GB whom you call "the slave" (as if Christ has only 7 "slaves")  and whom you feel cannot be challenged.

On 12/31/2017 at 10:08 PM, Arauna said:

You are living in a bubble because the information you give is as inconsistent as the teachings in the Qur'an

Do you realize you believe that the Watchtower exists in a “bubble” in Satan’s world, with full access to his “tool box”? And that you look for the signs of coming Kingdom of God to be fulfilled through Satan’s world?  Job 14:4; John 18:36; Matt 12:39

We can not nullify scripture. Each and every thing Revelation tells us about the Great Crowd,  is how the chosen priests  are described in other scriptures.  We must accept the Bible's own interpretation of who the Great Crowd is.

Let us consider only one  of the many descriptions of them....Rev.7:15

"and they render sacred service day and night in his temple".

The "Temple" in Revelation is not the physical "shadow" of the reality to come (Col.2:17; Heb.8:5). The "temple" in Revelation symbolizes the anointed 144000 priests, among whom God dwells (1Cor.3:16; Eph.2:21,22; Rev.7:15 D).

If you read  Heb.10:11; 8:1,2; Num.18:5,6,7; 2Chron.23:6; 1Chron.23:3,4,5,24,28,30,32; Eze.44:5,9,15,16
("day and night" Rev.7:15; 1Chron23:30)

you will see that the Bible says that the only ones permitted to "render sacred service...in the Temple" are God’s priests (2Chron.23:6).

They are the only ones allowed to do this (Num.18:7).
Rev.7:9 tells us that these include those who were not his people (physical Gentiles), but these have now been "shown mercy" and made priests....
physical "Gentiles" made into spiritual Jews and  Holy priests (1Pet.2:10,9; Rev.5:9,10)
by means of spiritual circumcision of the heart (Rom.2:28,29; Col.2:11).

These who serve in God's temple, cannot be spiritual Gentiles (uncircumcised in heart by spirit) who never received the circumcision of the heart (Eze.44:7). Only anointed, spiritual "Jews" and priests receive this circumcision by spirit (Rom.2:28,29) and may enter the temple to render acceptable sacred service (1Pet.2:5; Rev.7:15). 

Those born in the flesh as Gentiles, but who receive a circumcised heart by spirit, become spiritual Jews. (Eph.2:11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21; Eph.2:22; Eph.3:1,2,3,4,5,6]

The Great Crowd can be included in God's priestly group who stand for truth (symbolic meaning of 144000) when that number is regarded as not so much literal and numerical, but as those who testify to truth. There can be a group of Testifiers to Truth ("144000"), later joined by more who Testify to Truth. Although the group increases, the label of that number's meaning, remains the same.

Yet a distinction is made in Rev.7, between the 144000, and those who appear "afterward" (Rev.7:9).
We are told in Rev. ch.20, that the 144000 reign with Christ during the Thousand years (Rev.20:4-6). (which began when Jesus ascended into heaven)   It is after the "Thousand Years", that Satan is released, and the Great Tribulation ensues (Rev.20:2-3,7) (Satan's "short time" of release Rev.20:3; 12:12,17).

During the "Thousand Years", Satan is restrained. Those who rule with Christ during that time, are not overcome by Satan's Beasts and their slave mark (Rev.20:4). After Satan's release, he empowers the false prophet and it's Beast, with powerful deception (Rev.16:13-16; 13:4,11; 20:7-8; 17:14; 20:9; 11:3,5; Jer.5:14; 23:29; Matt.10:20) (2Thess.2:9,11,8; Rev.2:16).
Initially, the Great Crowd are overcome (Rev.13:7; Dan.11:31-33; Rev.13:10 <Col.2:8; Luke21:24; Rev.11:2; Matt.5:13). Of these, a remnant of those who face the Great Tribulation, will be saved (Matt.24:24-25,21-22; Dan.12:1; Jer.23:3; Mark13:26-27). These survivors, are the Great Crowd.

Therefore, the experience of the Great Crowd, differs from the previous faithful priests.
The previous 144000 had never accepted the slave mark of the Beasts (Rev.20:4) who are unleashed during the Great Tribulation (Rev.13:1,11). The remnant (remaining ones of the seed -Rev.12:17,15) are overcome (Rev.13:7), and must be rescued (Jer.31:11; Isa.48:20; 51:11). These are required to repent of their soiled identity, and be given white robes (Zech.3:3-4,8; Rev.3:18; Isa.1:18; Eze.18:27; Rev.19:8; 7:9,14).

Not all, repent (Rev.2:21-22; 9:20-21; 16:9-11) (1Kings8:46-50; Mal.3:6).

The previous group of 144000 were in the Lamb's book of life during Christ's "Thousand Year" reign ("first resurrection"). The "second death"--
    (being overcome by death again, after having received redemption from Adamic sin and "first" death
    -Rom.5:12; John6:63; 5:24; 1Cor.15:45; 1Pet.1:23)
--"has no hold" on those previous "144000" (Rev.20:6; Luke10:19).
Yet for a time, the "sting" of the agents of death (1Cor.15:55,26; Rev.20:5,14), gains a hold on the remnant (Rev.9:10) during Satan's release and Great Tribulation.

When the Chosen who are living after the Thousand Years, are overcome by the released Satan and the resources of his abyss; they are overcome once again by death, having lost their slave mark of God (Deut.11:18), (being slave-marked by the laws of the Beast -Rev.13:16)
(Rev.13:7; 9:4-6,10; 7:3)

Yet there will be those who repent, are saved, and are added to those who receive life (Rev.3:3,19; 20:6,5) "after the thousand years have ended".

This is why the "144000" and the "Great Crowd" are depicted by scripture, as two different groups.
Yet in the end, the survivors of the Great Tribulation, battle for Truth (Rev.12:10-11; Luke 12:8; Rev.6:9-11; Mark 8:35; Rev.11:8), alongside Christ at Armageddon (Rev.17:14; 19:14,8), and are united with the previous "144000", in the Lamb's scroll of life (Zech.3:7-10; Rev.3:5).

pearl doxsey 4womaninthewilderness

“you wanna go out there…it’s at your spiritual risk”.  Sounds like fear-mongering. 

What spiritual risk.  Being disfellowshipped for uncovering a lie, or two or three…and not keeping quiet about it.   

“If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed.”   Albert Einstein

On 12/29/2017 at 10:44 PM, Arauna said:

By yourself or from these same people that you now condemn and think you have more special insight than they.....

I was hoping you would provide scriptures with your opinions.  In what you did provide to Anna, do you realize that the “house of the God of Jacob” is God’s Temple?  They are Zion, the “New Jerusalem”, not under Zion.  1 Pet 2:5; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22; Rev 7:15    If you take just a moment and read the verses you will see that God’s dwelling is within the hearts of faithful anointed ones.  “New Jerusalem” is the Bride/priesthood.   Rev 21:2,3;3:12  Jesus made it very clear that there is no earthly “mountain” where worship is given; but only “in spirit and truth”.    John 4:23,24

On 12/29/2017 at 10:44 PM, Arauna said:

and there is hate behind your words for the slave... calling them the lawless one!

I never said the GB was the “man of lawlessness”, although they practice “lawlessness” by allowing God’s servants to be “trampled” upon.  Dan 8:9-14   I said it is the elder body/”Gentile” Beast from the Sea.  They are directed by the GB to wield power over God’s anointed ones – and all.  Enough power to disfellowship the GB’s “fellow slaves” for refusing to believe in an organization as Zion, just one of the many lies generated by a “false prophet”.  Rev 13:1,7,11,15  I do believe we have gone through all of this before, under another topic.

On 12/29/2017 at 10:44 PM, Arauna said:

You do not even understand the history of Christianity.

How did you reach that summation when we haven’t touched on it?  Is it because I don’t seek a date, or pursue chronology to fabricate 1914?

I do hope the “OCD” tendencies that your friend has developed is because of realizing Jesus’ words hold more power than those of a Wicked Slave.  Matt 7:13,14; Matt 24:48-51  Perhaps her/his vision has finally come into focus.  Luke 12:51; 1 Pet 2:21; Mark 8:35

I noticed you didn’t respond to 2 Thess 2:1-12; how unfaithful anointed ones proclaim the “day of our Lord”, and how the “man of lawlessness” “sits” in the Temple of God; and how the two are connected. I will be happy to explain the true meaning of the Great Crowd, once we get passed this, and as a new thread; if you like.

While you exonerate an organization (Rev 13:4), I exonerate God’s Son as the only source of salvation.  Acts 4:12   And along with His Son, I exonerate the true God and Father.  Ps 113:5-9  Scriptures do not express that I should give allegiance to any earthly organization. Nor does Jesus.  John 4:13,14,21-24 The anointed inside the organization are ‘held hostage’ by the Beast. I was also, caught with a bait of initial truth and brought in to the final testing ground of Satan’s making.   Luke 22:31  And God allows his people to face it.  2 Thess 2:9-12

Awake, awake, Zion,

    clothe yourself with strength! (Rev 12:1)

Put on your garments of splendor,

    Jerusalem, the holy city.

The uncircumcised and defiled

    will not enter you again. (Rev 22:15; 21:27;11:2; Mark 13:14)

Shake off your dust;

    rise up (Isa 60:1), sit enthroned, Jerusalem.

Free yourself from the chains on your neck,

    Daughter Zion, now a captive."  Isa 52:1,2

I hope you can see that this does not imply “organization” but anointed individuals making up a whole; the Temple of God. Fear tactics and promise of “peace and security” keep “Zion” captive under the “wicked slave”.  Only a remnant will “awake” and be brave enough to listen to Christ.   Amos 7:1-3; Isa 10:10; 1 Thess 5:3; Rev 14:7; 7:10

On 12/29/2017 at 10:44 PM, Arauna said:

and as I said before - the BIG picture is missing from your view (very short-sighted views, accusative and critical).

 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.  But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Cor 2:13,14

If you fix your eyes on Satan’s world to see “SIGNS” of the coming of Christ, you are indeed, short-sighted.  Matt 16:2,3  This is not “accusative or critical” it is based on scripture.

On 12/29/2017 at 10:44 PM, Arauna said:

I would also like to meet with them so I can do field service as the bible indicates will be done in the "entire world " for FREE in the time of the end (matt 24:14). 

Nothing comes free connected with the Watchtower.  Once an individual takes the bait and enters, it is imperative to dedicate oneself to the organization.  One becomes pidgeon-holed by a title and clicked into a hierarchy, either as acceptable or not acceptable.  The organization requires your labor to uphold physical treasures, contrary to Jesus’ admonition.  Matt 6:19-21   Every conceivable way to extract money is presented to the newcomer – from “ice cream money” to the title of one’s house; even the appalling attempt to gain money from The Holocaust Victim Assets Litigation to be used by the organization!

The Watchtower is not the early temple where God’s spirit dwelled and the place of worship; but it is where God’s spiritual Temple (1 Cor 3:16,17) is trampled upon. Matt 24:15   It is an invented corporation fulfilling the selfish desires of men, and a god that requires upkeep. 

The Father requires exclusive devotion, does He not?  Ex 20:4,5; Matt 22:36,37; Rom 1;21,22,25

Watchtower 1990 11/1 p. 26  "As Christians, we face up to similar challenges today. We cannot take part in any modern version of idolatry—be it worshipful gestures toward an image or symbol or the imputing of salvation to a person or an organization." 

But of course, this is not what is taught.

Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed.  And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”  John 8:31-33 

Living water does not come from an organization polluted by Satan’s world.  It comes from Christ. John 7:38  Truly, that is “good news”.

On 12/30/2017 at 7:18 AM, Ann O'Maly said:

Witness said about there still being Facebook pages for Lett and Morris. I guess we are to understand these are fraudulent.

I guess.  Although this page has Lett written all over it.  But, sure as I post this link, the page will be gone.  

If indeed it's authentic, who's guilty of lying; the writer of the article, or the GB who reviewed it?

https://www.facebook.com/M-Stephen-Lett-737859476343764/

 

"However, no member of the Governing Body maintains a personal Web page or a presence on any social media site."

Facebook pages are still up for Stephen Lett and Anthony Morris

"Baptism by John was the symbol of repentance for the Jewish nation (Mark 1:3-4) who were physical Jews (John 8:33,37,39; Matt.15:24; 10:5-6; Luke 1:54-55).  
John the Baptist was " 'greater / more' than a prophet" (Matt.11:7,9-10), because he had the spirit of an Elijah Herald (Luke 1:17,16; Matt.3:3; 11:14)... whose purpose is to awaken and cleanse God's nation to receive the arriving Messiah (Mark1:3; Matt.21:5). Such a Herald/Watchman, was also prophesied to arrive in the time of the end (Mal.4:5-6; Matt.17:11; Isa.49:8; Matt19:28; 25:6; Mal.3:1; Zech.4:9,14,11; Rev.11:4,3; 10:7; 16:17; 11:15; Isa.52:7; Rev.22:6,16; 1:1; John 16:8-14; Hab.2:2; Rev.4:8; 15:7) (Rev.12:14; Isa.40:3; 35:8; Matt.7:14; Rev.22:2), previous to Christ's final arrival (Matt.24:30,37; 16:27; Rev.1:7; 22:7). 

At Mark1:3 and Luke1:17, we learn the work of the Herald, and how he prepares the heart to receive the arriving Messiah.
What does "turning hearts" between fathers and children, mean? 
Is this to be taken as a reconciliation between literal physical relatives? No. See the context of Luke 1:17, by reading Luke 1:16. Verse 17 also says, "to turn the hearts of...the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous". Who are the disobedient children, and who are the righteous and wise fathers? 
(Dan.12:4,10,3; Phil.2:15; Rev.1:20)

The Herald comes to restore spiritual relationships...

WITH GOD
" 'A son honors his father, and a servant his master. Then if I am a father, where is My honor? And if I am a master, where is My respect?' says the LORD of hosts to you, O priests who despise My name.' " (Mal.1:6)
(Mal.4:6) (Luke1:16) (Eze.14:5-6) (2Cor.5:20; Col.1:20; Matt.17:11)

WITH CHRIST
 "For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."  (Isa.9:6)
 "If you love me, obey my commands." (John14:15) 
 (James1:18)
 "Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 “Honor your father and mother,” which is the first commandment with a promise" (Eph.6:1-3) (Deut.4:40; Isa.59:21; Deut.11:18; Rev.14:1) 
 "Like Isaac, we are children of promise (Gal.4:28)...Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother." (Gal.4:26) 
  (Heb.8:6) (Gal.4:24 a)

WITH GOD'S TEMPLE
"Even if you had ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel." (1Cor.4:15)
(3John1:4; 1Cor.4:14; 2Cor.6:13; 1Thess.2:11; 1Tim.1:2; 2John1:4; 1John2:1; 1John5:21; etc.)
"I am writing to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I have written to you, children, because you know the Father. I have written to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I have written to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the evil one." (1John2:13-14)

And so when we read that during the "Great Tribulation", the relationships between spiritual fathers, mothers, and children, are ripped apart (Jer.47:2-3; Luke 21:20; 19:43-44;  Matt.24:15; Dan.11:31; Jude 1:17-19) and need to be restored through the Elijah Herald (Matt.17:11; Mal.4:6; Isa.61:4,1-4);
we understand better why God will  "devote the whole land to destruction/a curse" (Mal.4:6) (Satan - 1Cor.5:5) (Zech.5:3), if these bonds are not repaired."
 (Luke1:16; Rev.22:3,18-19)."

pearl doxsey - 4womaninthewilderness

18 hours ago, Arauna said:

You have exposed yourself in what you said above

Good, full transparency is important.  I will give you my real name, if you like.

I erased my answer I was working on, since it is obvious you are sold on “organization” as salvation and believe I “hate” God’s Nation, of which I am part of it.  That is an incredible thought – to hate my own fellow servant. (Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:5,9; Eph 2:20-22)  Rom 12:9-21

 I have caused you quite a bit of distress, a sign that we are facing the “great tribulation”; when lies and truth are both revealed.  I am here because the “good news” involves the redemption of “Jacob”/spiritual “Israel”. Jer 31:10,11; Isa 27:6;48:20,21;49:5  

 “Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. ²² You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. ²³ When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another.

Any anointed one as well as all who leave the organization to follow Christ experience the above. They leave 1914 behind, false prophesies, idolatry, and “false christs”.  Jesus continued,

“Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.”  Matt 10:21-23

The Son of Man is soon to come, and the “towns of Israel” are the target of the “preaching work”.  (“Spiritual Israel” is defined in the Insight book). 

Take a look at 2 Thess 2:2

 “not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come.”

This letter/teaching/prophesy was made by anointed ones  - “as if from us”.   I’m sure you agree that the GB are anointed ones; all the major leaders of the Wt. were anointed ones.  1914 has carried on relentlessly since it gave birth in Russel’s calculations using pyramidology.  It is proclaimed as God’s Kingdom ruling “in the heavens”/ Christ’s Kingdom established.

In verses 3,4 – the man of lawlessness is found in God’s Temple.  Can you tell me where God’s Temple is?  1 Cor 3:16,17; 2 Cor 6:16; Eph 2:20-22

Verse 8  How is the “lawless one” revealed?  Rev 11:1-3 (John 20:22); Mal 3:1; Matt 10:40,20; Luke 21:15; Rev 22:16,6

Verse 9:  What does Satan use to “serve the lie”?  Rev 13:1,2,5-8;16:13-16; 20:7-9

Verse 10:  What “truth” is it that people refuse to love, which causes them to perish?  John 14:6;17:17;14:17; Heb 4:12

Verse 11:  What is the delusion?  Rev 13:1,2,5-8;16:13-16; 20:7-9; 13:11-17

Verse 12:   ^“and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.”

This wickedness is found where the Temple of God resides; where the “man of lawlessness” is found.  When we can identify the “man of lawlessness”, the “abomination standing in the holy place” (Matt 24:15)……when the anointed ones can discern the “lawless one” standing over them (the elder body)…… the scriptures tell us Christ is near; “even at the door”  Rev 3:20; Luke 12:37  If we open this door, he gives us assurance that he will “feed” us with spiritual abundance.

Rev 2:7; Isa 29:18; Ref 22:10,14; Eph 5:14; John 6:27,33,40,57; 14:21; 2 Pet 1:19; Matt 25:10

This is why I’m here – to tell you these things.  Rev 18:4-8

 Dr. Michael Langone, has done considerable research in the field of mind-manipulating movements. He's identified some key traits that cultish movements reveal themselves. Steve Hassan, a former cult member and one of the leading experts of cults has also contributed a lot to the field. Both of these men have helped in identifying the tell-tale signs of cult mentality.

     What they say:

• "Cult members are “focused on a living leader to whom members seem to display excessively zealous, unquestioning commitment.” The leader is a strong-willed, domineering character who rules the group with tight control. He lets it be known in subtle ways that he is in charge of the movement. He makes the plans, he orchestrates the movements of the group or groups (sometimes he exercises his sway over several groups). He dispatches the workers, assigns their chores, etc."
• "“Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged,” and there can be pressure or social punishment when there is disagreement with the “boss.” Those who disagree are made to feel as though they are stupid or inept. They are brainwashed with the notion that they do not have the knowledge or experience to question the leader. Younger people are particularly vulnerable to the leaderÂ’s gift of gab, and his feigned expertise. No matter how radical the leader becomes in his decisions or actions, the cult members will not criticize him. Even if there should be mild disagreement, no specific expressions are voiced. The members reason that though he may be mistaken in some of his judgments, yet the overall good he accomplishes outweighs any minor flaws.
  Members are taught to “rationalize” the conduct of the leader in matters they have always “considered unethical before,” under the guise that the “end justifies the means.”"
• "The leader “is preoccupied with [raising] money.” There is always a need for increasing finances. New projects are ever in the planning. Members are strongly encouraged to greatly sacrifice for the leaderÂ’s current pet enterprise. There is little pressure let-up; members of the group must be kept revved up on a continual basis.
  The cult leader always takes the major credit for the movement’s accomplishments. Members become psychologically dependent upon him. “What would we ever do without our leader?,” is the cult mentality."
• "The cult leader generates within his members “a polarized” mentality. His people evolve an us-versus-them outlook. Little by little, he criticizes other groups with which his members might tend to associate, undermining confidence in them, attempting to discredit anyone who could have influence over his flock."
• "The cult leader has a clearly defined anti-authoritarian disposition. Within the context of the church, for instance, he would have an “anti-elder” attitude. Elders would be recipients of constant critical remarks. No cult leader would affiliate himself with a congregation having elders to whom he must be in submission. Control could not be maintained in such an environment.
  The cult leader will constantly criticize preachers, particularly those whose knowledge of the Scriptures eclipse his own. Members must be made to feel that he is the chief authority in spiritual matters."
• "Cult members are seen occasionally to take on a new personality. They begin to act differently. They become increasingly antagonistic to family members and long-time friends. They may even boast, “I am not the old [name] that you used to know; I am a new person now.” And indeed they are. They have become strangers to those who knew them well. They have been transformed into the image of their leader."

        From the "Psychology of Cults"  

Rev 13:1,5-18

 

 

20 hours ago, Arauna said:

of your own infallibility regarding the non-existence of  1914

Scriptures are infallible, right?

Ps 110:1,2 - This is the declaration of the Lord
to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand (“sit” - a primitive root; properly, to sit down (specifically as judge.) 
until I make your enemies your footstool.”
 The Lord will extend your mighty scepter from Zion.
Rule over your surrounding enemies.

Jesus became a ruling King/judge once he was ascended and was sitting next to God.

“But each in his own order: Christ, the firstfruits; afterward, at his coming, those who belong to Christ. ²⁴ Then comes the end, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father, when he abolishes all rule and all authority and power. ²⁵ For he must reign until he puts all his enemies under his feet. ²⁶ The last enemy to be abolished is death. ²⁷ For God has put everything under his feet.”  1 Cor 15:23-26

God said in both scriptures, that “everything”, including enemies, would be Jesus’ footstool.  During this time, Jesus is reigning UNTIL he also “puts all his enemies under his feet."  They are working together on this.

Jesus replied, “Truly I tell you, the Son is not able to do anything on his own, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, the Son likewise does these things.  John 5:19

Two infallible facts are presented here.  The “Thousand Years” to come after Armageddon is a lie; since all rule, power, authority and death is abolished at the end of Christ’s reign ,which began when he sat down at the right hand of the Father.

Neither God nor Jesus waited until 1914 for everything to be put under his feet.  It has been in process for the last 2,000 years.

20 hours ago, Arauna said:

Most have been about applying the scriptures to daily living, meekness and humility.

No difference that I can see from teachings within “Christendom”.   Amos 8:11

20 hours ago, Arauna said:

How to stay neutral and not get involved in this world.

You mean like, not investing in military stock as the Watchtower does?  Or, not dodging court orders that the GB is so good at?  Ps 26:4

20 hours ago, Arauna said:

Of course - if you were part of the slave (the ones who you believe like to glorify themselves)

Every anointed one must strive to be “faithful and discreet”.  No anointed one has the corner on who should be recognized as the ONLY “faithful and discreet slave”; but since the GB has taken the title on, and dabbles in Satan’s realm, they fulfill the parable of the “wicked slave”.  Matt 25:21; 24:48-51

20 hours ago, Arauna said:

So please do not accuse the slave of the very thing which you are doing ALL the time!   

Are you referring to imitating the Bereans by examining the scriptures, and not taking the GB at their word that failed prophesies and changing doctrines are blessed by God and Christ? 

20 hours ago, Arauna said:

Just thinking of ONE thing.

Perhaps you are too use to “new light”?

20 hours ago, Arauna said:

Satan was the big rebel and was accusing Christs brothers all the time!  I see the same here with the so-called intellectuals using "innocent intellectual discussion" to pull the slave apart at every opportunity available to them - and using the word of God in the most deceiving way to say so!

The GB directs/controls the “spirit-directed organization”.  Through this direction, the organization has been given a spiritual “life”.  It is taught as the only way to salvation.  If anyone leaves it, it is considered they have left the path to eternal life.  Although this organization operates exactly as any other in Satan’s world, men who claim no inspiration by Spirit themselves, teach that God is “in control”.  Nothing short of a miracle.  

The act of spiritual immorality among anointed ones who mislead and malign truth by teaching soon-to-be failed doctrines, (WHICH ARE LIES SPOKEN “IN A MOST DECEIVING WAY”), marks them as “harlots’.  2 Pet 2:1-3; 1 Cor 6:15,16

“Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants (these are anointed ones) to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols.”  Rev 2:20

Revelation’s “Harlot” directs/rides a Wild Beast, which is admired, and revered as having great power – an idol.  She “breathes” “life” into the Beast, causing great awe and admiration among every “tribe, tongue, and nation”. (most likely solidified around the ‘50’s) This Beast has been authorized to “war” against the anointed ones – of whom are found WITHIN the “spirit-directed organization”.  Rev chapter 13

The “slave” who does not recognize any other “slaves” -  Christ’s brothers -  but easily dismisses them from their sight through disfellowshipping, is the Harlot. Soon, it will be the Beast/organization that will chew up and spit out the Governing Body.  More “sins” will be exposed, so much so, that even the organization want her gone.

“Then he said to me, “The waters which you saw, where the harlot sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues. ¹⁶ And the ten horns (“kings” Rev 1:6; 17:12) which you saw on the beast, these will hate the harlot, make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire. ¹⁷ For God has put it into their hearts to fulfill His purpose, to be of one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled. ¹⁸ And the woman (Babylon covenant of death) whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth.”

These “kings” are anointed ones.  True to scripture, the GB/Harlot daughters of the “woman” presently reigns over the anointed “kings”/ of the earth.  Rev 17:15-18 (Rom 6:16)

By the way, I’m not looking for a following on this website.  Every anointed one should be representing Christ’s truths and leading people to him.  Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.”  John 14:6  Yet, the organization overshadows the simplicity that is Christ. 2 Cor 11:1-4

This is what the apostles taught and what all anointed ones should be teaching.  It is also their job to “demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God”  2 Cor 10:5  Sadly, those anointed still in the organization, rely on “buying” spiritual oil/”food” from the Beast instead of from Christ. Matt 25:6-10; Rev 3:18

Except for a seemingly few, I am becoming convinced that scriptures scare JWs away, preferring GB’s tainted offerings instead.

23 hours ago, Gone Fishing said:

And as for this continual regurgitating of old spiritual food, isn't a bit like trying to eat yesterday's manna? It was good at the time, and certainly did what Jehovah wanted it to do...then. But today? Don't we find it's just like the manna of old which , when saved beyond it's current need,  just "bred worms and stank"?

This is the crux of the problem – that of holding onto a date, and comparing “new light” surrounding that date that must not lose its ‘significance’ -  to manna -  good for only a “day”; as if since Christ, that is the viewpoint to be held.

“What can we do to perform the works of God?” they asked.

 Jesus replied, “This is the work of God—that you believe in the one he has sent.”

 “What sign, then, are you going to do so we may see and believe you?” they asked. “What are you going to perform? John 6:28-30

 I see David Splane working through the “overlapping generation” doctrine, using a pointer and chart. 

“Our ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, just as it is written: He gave them bread from heaven to eat.”

 Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, Moses didn’t give you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven.  For the bread of God is the one who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” 

Then they said, “Sir, give us this bread always.”

 “I am the bread of life,” Jesus told them. “No one who comes to me will ever be hungry, and no one who believes in me will ever be thirsty again.  But as I told you, you’ve seen me, and yet you do not believe.”  John 6:31-36

The Watchtower is always chasing “new light”, since they desire a “sign” to follow.  So, they made one up, that requires “feeding”. 

“Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him: We ask you, brothers and sisters,  not to be easily upset or troubled, either by a prophecy or by a message or by a letter supposedly from us, alleging that the day of the Lord has come. 

1914

 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way. For that day will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessnessis revealed, the man doomed to destruction.  He opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sitsin God’s temple, proclaiming that he himself is God.   2 Thess 2:1-4

The elder body “representing” the anointed priesthood – the Temple of God.  1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22  “Exalts”?  Yes.  God’s priesthood must obey the elder body, or they are ousted.  John 16:2

JWs are like those who chased after Jesus once he fed them with literal, perishable, bread.

“When the crowd saw that neither Jesus nor his disciples were there, they got into the boats and went to Capernaum looking for Jesus.  When they found him on the other side of the sea, they said to him, “Rabbi, when did you get here?”

Jesus answered, “Truly I tell you, you are looking for me, not because you saw the signs, but because you ate the loaves and were filled.  Don’t work for the food that perishes but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set his seal of approval on him.”  John 6:24-27

He is speaking of perfect spiritual food, not seen with the eye but discerned as holding the promise of life. The GB cannot obtain this food, to share with JWs.  They are not connected to the source, but they make JWs “work” for it, nonetheless.

“May we be diligent in partaking of all the spiritual food we receive through Jehovah’s organization.”  Wt 13/4/13

"Jesus promised that he would sustain them with nourishing spiritual food.” Wt. 04/3/1

For the believers in Christ; yes, he did.  But not through men who continually concoct perishable “new light”. 

“The timely spiritual food we receive is proof that Jesus, the Head of the congregation, is keeping his promise to feed us.”  Wt 13/7/15

No, it is not proof; since “new light” rots.  Matt 7:18; 12:33

 ^“Consider what makes it possible for the faithful and discreet slave to provide timely, nutritious spiritual food. “I shall make you have insight and instruct you in the way you should go,” says Jehovah. He adds: “I will give advice with my eye upon you.” (Ps. 32:8) Yes, Jehovah provides direction to the slave. We can therefore have full confidence in the Scriptural insight, understanding, and guidance that we receive from the slave.” Wt 09/2/15

They always throw in that word, “timely”, to cover the need to make “timely” changes.  It appears God’s insight and instruction must be short-lived; as if changes at a whim. 1 Sam 15:29

Once a light bulb goes out, darkness creeps in enough to shake one’s confidence in where they are stepping, until the bulb is replaced with a new one.  Jesus’ “light” never dims and never goes out.  “I am the light of the world. Anyone who follows me will never walk in the darkness but will have the light of life.”  John 8:12 

 “Of course, Jesus did not tell us that his faithful slave would produce perfect spiritual food.:” W 17/2

He did promise his slaves who are faithful, perfect spiritual food, that would last; but not to a “wicked slave”.  Matt 24:48-51  They are blaming Christ in their excuse; yet change “faithful slave” to “wicked slave” and it becomes a true statement. 

Deception in its ‘true’ form.

“Remain in me, and I in you. Just as a branch is unable to produce fruit by itself unless it remains on the vine, neither can you unless you remain in me. “ John 15:4

“The ax is already at the root of the trees. Therefore, every tree that doesn’t produce good fruit (that lasts) will be cut down and thrown into the fire.”  Matt 3:10

Gal 1:6-9

On 12/26/2017 at 12:55 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

JWorg and some other Christian scholars, they note and conclude that the conscience of a man can make mistake and because that it is not the right benchmark for making decisions. In fact conscience is not/ has no ability to legalize and set general standards that would be unbearable and the only correct one for all people. 

Good assessment.  Interestingly, the Bible takes a different view: 

"To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted."  Titus 1:15

Those with a "seared"/corrupted conscience dictate the conscience of another.

"The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.  Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron." 1 Tim 4:1,2

On 11/10/2017 at 9:43 AM, Witness said:

"Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.  For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil.

"resists"

Among Strong’s definition of uses for “Satan” are included,

adversary (one who opposes another in purpose or act)

he incites apostasy from God and to sin

circumventing men by his wiles

a Satan-like man

On 12/26/2017 at 7:14 AM, Nana Fofana said:

So Jehovah's witnesses should have been like every other denomination in Nazi Germany who had no problem complying with Hitler?