Witness

Not all anointed ones are uninspired.  Some actually, are guided by Holy Spirit.  

This is a comment I found by an anointed one, very much inspired:

“The Bible makes clear, that there are cases which DO NOT require two witnesses, such as murder and rape (Deut.22:25-27). In both crimes, there was no witness at all. IN FACT, a child is not capable of resistance toward a crafty adult, despite the useless advice for the prevention of child abuse which is given in the Awake's futile magazine article. It places blame on the incapable victim, should they be molested, by depicting an image of a child with her hand up, to her would-be rapist.

Jesus also let us know, that God Himself can be considered a witness (John8:18). If "elders" believe that they are appointed by the action of that very spirit of God, can it not also testify to guilt or innocence, in response to a prayerful petition?

Of course, God will not respond to the prayer of the wicked, just as He refuses to respond to the prayers of the GB, as they themselves admitted, about their decision to build at Warwick.”

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

PRIESTS?? 

Jehovah's  Witnesses have priests?? Since when? :)))))))))) JW org say to public little contrary - JW have no priests or clergy.

Why you using Catholic priesthood privileges according to Catholic Church canon law, doctrines and want to apply false Babylon the Great measures and instructions and doctrines to "only true JW religion"?       :))) funny and sad at same time!

http://ex-jw.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Court-Trial-Testimony-Redwood-City-1-25.pdf

Check page 4

In the northern hemisphere, we are an the end of the harvest season, before the winter cold sets in.  The markets have moved from emphasis on greens, to the bright colors of local pumpkins, winter squash and the multiple varieties of apples.  In our own little garden, two small boys planted two small hills of pumpkins in the late spring.  Each boy was given three pumpkin seeds that they carefully planted in their designated hill, patting the soil with care and hope, for a productive harvest. Once sprouted, only two vines were allowed to grow on each hill. 

 As summer went by, the vines from both hills entangled together, and glossy large leaves hid any possibility of identifying the ownership of the pumpkins that grew.  Not until the leaves dried and fell off the vine, did they realize that their earlier perception of which hill grew which pumpkin, had been wrong. We followed the source of the vines and were surprised that the hill which seemed to produce the majority of the small harvest of pumpkins had only produced one. 

“Two” symbolizes truth in the scriptures. John 8:17  Two ‘hills’ or ‘mountains’ are present during this time of the end, each purporting to speak truth; each pronouncing that Christ’s final harvest is upon us, and each declaring an ingathering of righteous hearted ones.   One is a counterfeit of the other.  The “mountainlike organization” known as the Watchtower, teaches it has ‘harvested’ people unto Christ…should we guess, since its inception? https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+8%3A17&version=CSB

Wt. 2001/7/15, pp 10-15 -  In an article entitled “Anointed to Preach,” Zion’s Watch Tower of July/August 1881 said: “The preaching of the good news . . . is going on ‘to the meek’—those willing and able to hear, in order to develop from among them the body of Christ, the joint heirs.” God’s HARVEST WORKERS often met people as these were leaving church services and gave them tracts containing Scriptural messages designed to evoke a favorable response in deserving ones. After a reappraisal of the effectiveness of this method of witnessing, the Watch Tower of May 15, 1903, urged harvest workers to distribute the tracts “from house to house, on Sunday forenoons.

The “good news” of 1881 expressed Armageddon’s arrival in 1914; thus, it had to be placed somewhere in the Watchtower’s annals that the harvest of the end of the age, had changed.

From “God’s Kingdom Rules”, chapter 9:

“The same order of events is seen in Jesus’ parable about the harvest of the wheat, where he states: “The harvest is a conclusion of a system of things.” Thus, the HARVEST SEASON and the conclusion of this system of things BEGAN at the same time—in 1914.” 

Rather confusing, isn’t it? Were the harvest workers in 1881 bringing the true message from God?  Do you struggle to believe BOTH recent publications printed since the year 2,000?

As said, there are two opposing “mountains” during the time of the end – the true “Zion” and the counterfeit.  Watchtower will boast,

“THE WONDERS ABOUT JEHOVAH’S ORGANIZATION, OR “ZION” AND THE TRUTH ABOUT THE SPIRITUAL PARADISE MUST BE JOYFULLY PASSED ON “TO FUTURE GENERATIONS.” Wt. 15/7/15 pp. 7-11

God’s definition of Zion is far different than the Watchtower promotes. Daughter Zion is not an organization, nor does it refer to every “Jehovah’s Witness”.  It refers to “chosen” people who, if faithful will serve God and Christ eternally as “priests and kings” in God’s Kingdom, and are the spiritual descendants of Jacob and the dwelling of God’s Temple.  The end harvest is directed toward the anointed under the New Covenant promise, followed by their brethren that reside with them.  Both are found on the counterfeit “mountain”, the Watchtower Organization.  Zech 4:6,7; Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:5,9,10; Gal 4:26; 1 Cor 15:23

I noticed as the garden’s growing season progressed, I was continually plucking off diseased and rotten fruit, hoping to promote a healthier harvest of pumpkins.  Spiritually, we are “harvested” by the deep set intentions of our heart, known only to God and Jesus. If we choose to live in the “diseased” and spiritually “famished” environment of the Watchtower, we are rejected as unworthy for eternal life in God’s Kingdom. Matt 13:18-23; Heb 4:12 

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Zech+4%3A6%2C7%3B+Isa+43%3A10%3B+1+Pet+2%3A5%2C9%2C10%3B+Gal+4%3A26%3B+1+Cor+15%3A23%3B+Matt+13%3A18-23%3B+Heb+4%3A12++&version=CSB

“Behold, the days are coming,” says the Lord God,
“That I will send a famine on the land,
Not a famine of bread,
Nor a thirst for water,
But of hearing the words of the Lord.”  Amos 8:11

 “Thus the Lord God showed me: Behold, a basket of summer fruit.  And He said, “Amos, what do you see?”

So I said, “A basket of summer fruit.”

Then the Lord said to me:

“The end has come upon My people Israel;
I will not pass by them anymore.
 And the songs of the temple
Shall be wailing in that day,”
Says the Lord God—
“Many dead bodies everywhere,
They shall be thrown out in silence.”  Amos 8:1-3

The Temple today are the anointed in Christ, who are ZION and spiritual “Israel”.  Amos wrote these words concerning the idol worship established by Jeroboam in Samaria (meaning “watch tower”/”watch mountain”) during his prosperous reign.  No doubt the nation was convinced they still worshiped God, through their calf idols. Jeroboam was successful in directing the people’s worship away from the true temple in Jerusalem, and the people didn’t question his authority. This is the same tactic used today in the organization.  1 Pet 2:5,9,10; 1 Cor 3:16,17;2 Cor 6:16; Rom 2:29; Acts 17:24 

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Pet+2%3A5%2C9%2C10%3B+1+Cor+3%3A16%2C17%3B2+Cor+6%3A16%3B+Rom+2%3A29%3B+Acts+17%3A24++&version=CSB

Watchtower asks, “Are we going to remain loyal to Jehovah AND (along with) his organization?”  Wt 02/4/1

The true Mount “Zion” is not an idea manufactured within the minds and hearts of false prophets, such as the golden calves Jeroboam positioned at the far reaches of his empire. 1 Kings 12:28-31  It is within the hearts of those God has chosen as his “occupied home”; his “dwelling”.  1 John4:13; 2 Tim 1:14; 1 Cor 3:16; Rom.8:9  

We are all facing the culmination of the harvest. If our love for God is heartfelt and sincere, and we desire to serve him with our whole heart, mind and soul, we are to gather at the authentic, spiritual Mount Zion and God’s sanctuary.  Mark 12:33

Please, JWs, don’t be fooled by the apparent beauty and appeal of the Watchtower, which is manifested in Satan’s world.  His creative and alluring deception will be stripped bare, while the true Zion will fill the earth with God’s glory.  Rev 8:8,9;21:1-4

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Kings+12%3A28-31%3B+1+John4%3A13%3B+2+Tim+1%3A14%3B+1+Cor+3%3A16%3B+Rom.8%3A9%3B+Mark+12%3A33%3B+Rev+8%3A8%2C9%3B21%3A1-4+++&version=CSB

The following is from Pearl Doxsey's article, "The Rise of Zion"  (4 woman in the wilderness)

2 IN THE LAST DAYS (2Tim.3:1,5,7-8; Matt.24:3; Rev.1:10)

the mountain of the Lord’s temple will be established

    as the highest of the mountains;

it will be exalted above the hills,

    and ALL NATIONS WILL STREAM TO IT.

3 Many peoples will come and say,

“Come, let us go up to THE MOUNTAIN OF THE LORD
(Isa.56:7; 2Pet.1:18; Zech.8:2-3; Joel3:17; Rev.14:1),

to the TEMPLE (1Pet.2:5; 1Cor.3:16; Eph.2:20-22,10) of the God of JACOB (Isa.10:20-21).

He will teach us his ways (Matt.28:20; Mal.2:7),

so that we may walk IN HIS PATHS.” 
(Isa.30:21; 40:3; 11:16; Mal.3:1; 4:5-6; Matt.17:11,3,2; Mal.4:1-3; Rev.1:16)

The law will go out FROM ZION (Ps.110:2; Rev.14:1,3; 1Cor.14:15; 4:1; Rev.5:9,10; Isa.48:20),

the word of the Lord FROM JERUSALEM (Rev.21:2,3; 3:12).

4 HE WILL JUDGE BETWEEN THE NATIONS AND WILL SETTLE DISPUTES FOR MANY PEOPLES.
(Luke12:51; 1Cor.11:18-19; 4:5; 13:10; Rev.1:1; John16:13,8; Ps.94:21; Rev.6:9,11; 13:15,7) 
(Rev.20:11-13; John12:48; Matt.12:36-37; 15:11; 1Cor.3:13-14; 2Cor.5:10; 1Cor.13:10; John16:13; Rev.22:6; Mal.3:1)

They will beat their swords into plowshares

    and their spears into pruning hooks.

Nation will not take up sword against nation (Rev.17:14; 16:13-16; Matt.24:7,21; Joel2:2,1; Rev.9:7,9,16; 2Cor.10:3-5; Dan.12:7; Rev.6:11;Rom.6:5),

nor will they train for war anymore.

5 Come, DESCENDANTS OF JACOB (Acts2:39; Deut.6:6-8; 1Cor.4:15),

LET US WALK IN THE LIGHT OF THE LORD.  Isa 2:1-5

2 hours ago, Gone Fishing said:

his is just alien gobbledegook. Were you once doing this??

Yes, I was, until I realized that worshiping God requires only one “mark” on our spiritual forehead, the source of our spiritual thoughts and actions – the mark of God.  

Baptism questions:

"The first question is:
On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will? 

The second is:
Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit-directed organization? Having answered yes to these questions, candidates are in a right heart condition to undergo Christian baptism."

“Don’t you know that if you offer yourselves to someoneas obedient slaves, you are slaves of that one you obey—either of sin leading to death or of obedience leading to righteousness?”  Rom 6:16

From “What You Vow You Pay”  Wt. 4/2017

 Have you dedicated your life to Jehovah and symbolized your dedication by baptism in water? If you have, that is wonderful! Do you remember when the brother giving the baptism talk asked whether you had dedicated yourself to Jehovah and understood that “your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses”?  

Where in the scriptures are we required to dedicate ourselves to an organization?  It certainly can’t be found in these words of Jesus:

 ^"Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,  teaching them to observe everything I have commanded you."

What I find alarming, is that the Holy Spirit is not addressed in the baptism questions; but a “spirit-directed organization” replaces it; the work of a false prophet.  Rev 13:15-17  Obviously, Jesus' command to heed his words are ignored by the organization.  

Our vow is only to God and Christ. 

“Then I looked, and there was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him were 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads.”  Rev 14:1

Gal 1:10; Rev 13:16,8,17

“When you make a vow to God, don’t delay fulfilling it, because he does not delight in fools. Fulfill what you vow.”  Eccl 5:4

3 hours ago, Gone Fishing said:

Well, I would say that he will continue to treat this organisation in the same way he treated David: 

1 Sam 16:13: "And the spirit of Jehovah began to empower David from that day forward"

The organization is a man-made creation, not an anointed individual. David gave full reverence to God.  JWs are unable to do this, since they believe the organization is, as you made the comparison to David – empowered.  Rev 13:5,15

David's words:

“Praise be to you, Lord,
    the God of our father Israel,
    from everlasting to everlasting.
 Yours, Lord, is the greatness and the power
    and the glory and the majesty and the splendor,
    for everything in heaven and earth is yours.
Yours, Lord, is the kingdom;
    you are exalted as head over all.
 Wealth and honor come from you;
    you are the ruler of all things.
In your hands are strength and power
    to exalt and give strength to all.
Now, our God, we give you thanks,
    and praise your glorious name. 1 Chron 29:10-13

“When you cry out,
Let your collection of idols deliver you.
But the wind will carry them all away,
A breath will take them.
But he who puts his trust in Me shall possess the land,
And shall inherit My holy mountain.”  Isa 57:13

On 11/3/2017 at 8:41 AM, Gone Fishing said:

Why not? If they believe Paul's description of themselves that they are "ambassadors substituting for Christ" (2Cor 5:20)

The word “substituting” was added by the NWT.  It isn't found in the Greek Interlinear.   An ambassador acts as a representative.  There is difference.  Also, every anointed one is to “represent” Jesus through their teachings in harmony with his.  John 13:20; John 15:4  The GB have fully usurped Christ’s Headship, and demand obedience from the rest of the anointed ones.  Matt 24:48-51 So, yes, “substituting“ is a good descriptive term for them; they have become “Christ” for a day, or so they think so.  Of course, it has been said, many other anointed ones are a bit “wacky”; most likely from drinking the “Harlot’s” intoxicating brew. Rev 17:1,2  Maybe they don’t deserve a place they can call “home”? 

Do you remember Eoin, when all anointed ones were referred to as the "faithful and discreet slave", even though that is still Christ's judgment call?  Luke 19:17

On 11/3/2017 at 8:41 AM, Gone Fishing said:

and that Christ is the ruler of Jehovah's Messianic Kingdom (Rev.12:10), then why not have a suitable embassy premises?

Why not?  Jesus said, “my kingdom is not part of this world” 18:36

 What about God’s Kingdom? 

“Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.”  2 Pet 3:13

On 11/3/2017 at 8:41 AM, Gone Fishing said:

And if they believe in an imminent intervention by Jehovah as described at Dan 2:44, and the salvation of all suitable humans as described at Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21, Rom 10:13, Revelation 7:10, 14, then why not build a suitable premises for the direction of the various necessary scriptural duties requisite to preparation for that intervention?

Because Jesus said nothing built within the earth was needed to worship in spirit and truth.  John 4:21-14

“So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.”  2 Cor 4:18

Acts points out that God is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything.  Acts 17:24,25

2 Tim 4:3

The “preaching” began in Jesus day.  In 2,000 years, the Bible made its way around most the world with no problem. During that time there were anointed ones walking the earth with truth in their mouth. Matt 25:14-23; Mal 2:7  Within only the last 100 years, the organization has taken on what they believe is the true "preaching work". Today, the final preaching work is to spiritual “Israel”, who have been captivated through a false preaching work, driven by lies and man's greed.  Matt 10:23; 2 Tim 3:1-9; Col 2:8; Rev 13:10

The “suitable premises” that initiates God’s work is within the righteous hearts, and where Mount Zion is found.  Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; 2 Cor 6:16; Eph 2:20-22; Rev 21:22-24

“Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal;  but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. ²¹ For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.”  Matt 6:19-21

On 11/3/2017 at 8:41 AM, Gone Fishing said:

And do you think they believe this building will be destroyed by Jehovah if it is in existence and operating in harmony with His requirements when that intervention takes place?

“Then the second angel sounded: And something like a great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea, and a third of the sea became blood.  And a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.”   Rev 8:8,9

Outside of the “mountainlike organization” come the final living stones to finish off God’s Temple – not from within.  Rev 16:12; Rev 11:1-3; Zech 4:7-10; Rev 7:13,14; Rev 5:9,10

 A composite Master has been developed to rule over people – the organization, the elder body, the GB.  It requires another’s money and identity to remain under this ‘slavery’.  For a false promise of paradise, people “sell” their identity to a corporation, in exchange for the work of their hands.  If one secretly never donates, they are still slaves to fear - fear of the loss of their life as they know it, if they choose to follow the only Master, Jesus Christ.  Matt 10:39; Luke 9:23

On 11/11/2017 at 7:31 AM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

but the 15% Core Truths are so VALUABLE, that I am willing to allow "my hat" to be stomped into the mud by those marching to the 85% drivel.

Srecko compared it to healthy water of a questionable substance.

Jesus is “living water”. John 7:38  If offered Watchtower’s glass of tainted water, and a glass of Jesus’ living water directly from the source, surely you would choose the latter.  Your comment establishes that Wt. is unable to bring anyone to this source.  Approaching Jesus directly is the more difficult route to take, because of the ramifications we suffer by doing so;  but in the long run it guarantees eternal life. Luke 9:24   Just from the little that I gather about you, you are a determined fighter and someone whom I have come to admire; but why would we back off fighting for eternal life and settle for allowing our “hat”/mind to be stomped into the mud by men who are unable, and really could care less, about offering eternal life?

“Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord:  looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled”  Heb 12:14,15 

This is referring to wormwood, a “bitter root”, that scriptures mention that God “sends” to his wayward people when they have sinned against him.  Jer 9:13-16; Lam 3:15; 2 Thess 2:11,12

“The leaves and flowers are very bitter, with a characteristic odour, resembling that of thujone. The root has a warm and aromatic taste.  (A Modern Herbal) 

Hebrews 12:14,15 is associating fallen anointed ones to this root, whose demeanor and teachings appear palatable and inviting, perhaps even speaking as Christ. Matt 7:15-17; Mark 13:21,22; 1 John 4:1; Rev 13:11; 20:10

“Wormwood oil contains the chemical thujone, which excites the central nervous system.  However, it can also cause seizures and other adverse effects.” (webmd.com)

“Intoxications have resulted from the ingestion of an aqueous decoction of thujone containing plants, for their supposed abortifacient action. Death by overdose has been reported for wormwood”.  (The Essential Guide to Herbal Safety)

Anointed ones are compared to stars in the heavens. Matt 5:14,15; Phil 2:15  Those who wisely “shine” as “messengers” (angels) are in the “right hand” of Jesus. (Mal 2:7); Rev 1:20  Although they can be physically on the earth, they are secured in their “heavenly” position as stars in Jesus’ hand.  Eph 2:6; Rom 8:9; Heb 12:22,23

“Also, regard the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our dear brother Paul has written to you according to the wisdom given to him. ¹⁶ He speaks about these things in all his letters. There are some matters that are hard to understand. The untaught and unstable will twist them to their own destruction, as they also do with the rest of the Scriptures.

 Therefore, dear friends, since you know this in advance, be on your guard, so that you are not led away by the error of lawless people and fall from your own stable position.  But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. 2 Pet 3:5-18

It is very possible for anointed ones to lose their position in the Body of Christ; forfeiting the promise of salvation.  Ps 101:7; Heb 12:16  They are the root who mislead “many” by their teachings.

In two places in Revelation a star is seen falling from heaven. Rev 8:10,11 names the star, Wormwood, and through its fall onto rivers and springs of water, (those basic true teachings) a symbolic “one third” of the waters become wormwood.  The symbolic meaning of three in scripture shows significant effect on a complete whole.  Take a large 100 year old ladle, stir well, and “many people die from the waters because they had become bitter”. 

The source of “bitter” fruit, begins at the root. Matt 12:33-37; 3:10

Revelation is like a puzzle, with each piece full of color and descriptions of the same scenario. 

Wormwood is the fallen star, “Beast from the earth”, false prophet, Harlot/ Governing Body and generally all major leaders of the Watchtower. It falls like a “burning torch”, hardly something to be missed, especially to the “elect”.  Would it not “light up the whole house” and appear to be from Christ?   Prov 5:3-5; Rev 13:11; Rev 17:1; Matt 5:15; Matt 24:24; Eph 2:20-24

The Wild Beast from the Sea is the locust/scorpion “Gentile” army that Wormwood releases from the abyss, after it falls from heaven; after it has spearheaded Satan’s plan into action. It is the gradual, steady growth of the now massive army of the Body of Elders who are the beating heart of the organization. Rev 13:1,4

 The description both in Revelation and Joel of the locusts, fit the actions and intentions of the Elder Body, exactly. Rev 9:7-11; Joel 2:3-11 By replacing the anointed priesthood, the result of the locusts’ “sting” and Wormwood’s water, brings spiritual affliction upon the unsealed anointed ones. ("seizures and other adverse effects")  Luke 22:24-26; Matt 24:48-51; Rev 9:4-6

The Beasts are Gog and Magog who have surround the camp of the holy people.  Rev 20:7-9 Both identities have convinced the multitude of JWs, that the bulk of Revelation is not about them and God’s anointed people, but about the rest of mankind.  They will be judged according to God’s righteous judgment; but God’s anointed people are subjected to this delusion of Satan’s, to test/sift each heart for their love of pure, healthy living water, or a barely potable, intoxicating cup from a questionable source.  Rev 18:2,3; Luke 22:31; Rev 12:1-4

“Then I saw three unclean spirits like frogs (it takes time to become a full-fledged lie)

coming from the dragon’s mouth, from the beast’s mouth (organization), and from the mouth of the false prophet.

 For they are demonic spirits performing signs, who travel (preaching work) to the kings (anointed ones) of the whole world (of God’s “inhabited dwelling”)  to assemble them for the battle on the great day of God, the Almighty.

 “Look, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who is alert and remains clothed (Heb 4:13; Matt 22:37) so that he may not go around naked and people see his shame.”  So they assembled the kings at the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon."  Rev 16:13-16

In Ezekiel, Gog is destroyed in the valley of “Hamon-Gog” – the “multitude of Gog”, “a valley of graves”.  Joel 3:14 calls it, “the valley of decision”, where “multitudes” are found.  Ezek 39:11 

John 7:38 -  “The one who believes in me, as the Scripture has said, will have streams of living water flow from deep within him.”

“Deep” meaning at the root, which is the heart.  Matt 13:18-23; Luke 6:45 

On 11/11/2017 at 8:51 AM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I analyze the questionable substance. isolate it, and TRY to avoid it.

 You are wise, but there are those contacted in the “preaching work” who are not as intelligent, (like me) and wouldn’t know how to avoid the poison.  Who is responsible when the person suffers from its affect; the one dangling the carrot, the one snatching it up… or both?

Since Satan also knows the core truths, he uses them to set the foundation for the lie.  Rev 13:2

9 hours ago, Matthew9969 said:

Is the governing body again apostatizing from the Jehovah witnesses?

Worse.

It appears the organization has apostatized from God. 

If God cannot be worshipped without an earthly organization, then what do have, but an idol? 

“Jehovah God’s glory directly lights up this organization, just as the Shechinah cloud illuminated the Most Holy.”  w05 8/15 p. 31 

“Their work brings praise to Jehovah and his organization.” kr chap. 20 pp. 209-219 

I am Yahweh, that is My name;
I will not give My glory to another
or My praise to idols.  Isa 42:8

What is sad, Matthew, is God's word from Isaiah will be rejected, and man's word will rule.  So, I ask, do JWs really know God?

PDF File

17 hours ago, Nana Fofana said:

If you blow it up and "make it 3-d"  You can see that all those odd features are crudely drawn in, on top of the  original satellite image.

Go to Google Earth,  type in this address, choose satellite image and you should pull it up with no problem - unadulterated.

Helsinkivej 3C, 8600 Silkeborg, Denmark

It really is nothing new for the Watchtower.  

https://ia601407.us.archive.org/26/items/1919BibleStudentConventionReport/1919SouvenirReportColor.pdf

 

Edit:  I meant to say, Google Maps. 

@Israeli Bar Avaddhon

Sir, I have put your quotes in green:

My question is: to go where?

Sir, we go to the one who has the sayings of eternal life, which Srecko highlighted with scripture.   It is the Son of God. It isn’t the Watchtower, since the leaders admit to not being inspired and haven’t been since the beginning.  Rev 2:2,9; Rev 3:8-13

Can you see that the disciples followed only Jesus?

“But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.  Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”  John 6:68,69

Should we go to religions who have taught abominations like the hell of fire, the trinity, the mother of God, innate immortality of the human soul, predestination, limbo, purgatory, and so on?

“Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them. For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world.” 1 John 2:15,16  That includes the Watchtower. 

Any Watchtower errors do not make false religion a little bit more truth.

Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.”

 ^“Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this (literal) mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father.”

“But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.  God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”  John 4:10,21,23,24

I would be very careful before saying "leave this religion".

“And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.  For her sins have reached to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.  Render to her just as she rendered to you, and repay her double according to her works; in the cup which she has mixed, mix double for her.  In the measure that she glorified herself and lived luxuriously, in the same measure give her torment and sorrow; for she says in her heart, ‘I sit as queen, and am no widow, and will not see sorrow.’  Therefore her plagues will come in one day—death and mourning and famine. And she will be utterly burned with fire, for strong is the Lord God who judges her.”

This cannot refer to Christendom, because as you say, God’s people are being disciplined.  This refers to the Watchtower, where God’s anointed ones are “camped”.  Rev 20:9

 “Flee from the midst of Babylon,
And every one save his life!
Do not be cut off in her iniquity,
For this is the time of the Lord’s vengeance;
He shall recompense her.
 Babylon was a golden cup in the Lord’s hand,
That made all the earth drunk.
The nations drank her wine;
Therefore the nations are deranged.”

The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,  and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.  And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.” Yet, the Watchtower promotes itself as Zion.

 Pilate therefore said to Him, “Are You a king then?”

Jesus answered, “You say rightly that I am a king. For this cause I was born, and for this cause I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.”

³⁸ Pilate said to Him, “What is truth?” John 18:36-38a

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.”  John 14:6

Is Jesus making an exception to this rule for an organization fabricated through the use of worldly tools and situated in, Satan’s world?  Think about it.  God and Christ are pure, while the organization is filthy rich, and run as other corporate entities are, in Satan’s world.  Why would Jesus use Satan’s resources, who literally wants to kill off all Christ’s anointed brothers (Gen 3:15) and condone anything in this system?  The Watchtower consistently teaches you to be ‘no part of the word’ yet they are so mired down in its dung, JWs see only the icing on the; well,....  It is blasphemy for an organization so full of false prophesy, false security, sin against victims of child abuse,, lawsuits,  and disfellowshipped individuals who desire to follow the truth in Christ – to call itself “the truth” and “Zion”.   

It is the delusion of 2 Thess 2:9-12 and the ‘spirit-breathed’ Beast of Revelation.  (spirit-directed organization)

“Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name.”  Rev 13:1

Read further and see how this Beast comes against God’s Temple/anointed ones; (1 Cor 3:16,17) accompanied by a false prophet who authorizes the “trampling”.  Matt 24:15; Rev 11:1-3

During the discipline of Jehovah many "fake brothers" will no longer exist. Probably there will not be anyone who has idolized men above the Word of God.  We can not know how many will be, how many will remain.

The faithful to God and Christ are found “outside the camp”, despised as “garbage”, persecuted by their own brethren for following the one Master, Jesus Christ. Matt 6:24; John 15:6; Heb 13:12-15; 1 Cor 4:13; Matt 5:11; 24:48-51

“Woe to those who decree unrighteous decrees,
Who write misfortune,
Which they have prescribed
² To rob the needy of justice,
And to take what is right from the poor of My people,
That widows may be their prey,
And that they may rob the fatherless.
³ What will you do in the day of punishment,
And in the desolation which will come from afar?
To whom will you flee for help?
And where will you leave your glory?
⁴ Without Me they shall bow down among the prisoners,
And they shall fall among the slain.”

For all this His anger is not turned away,
But His hand is stretched out still.

Therefore it shall come to pass, when the Lord has performed all His work on Mount Zion and on Jerusalem, that He will say, “I will punish the fruit of the arrogant heart of the king of Assyria, and the glory of his haughty looks.” 

Then the rest of the trees of his forest
Will be so few in number
That a child may write them.”  Isa 10:1-4, 12, 19

A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.  Therefore by their fruits you will know them.  Matt 7:18,20

Please, do not perceive the large print as “yelling”, but to help connect the importance of Christ’s words – although it is a trumpet call to leave the crumbling wall of lies behind. Rev 11:2,3   Ezek chapter 13 is having its second fulfillment. 

52 minutes ago, Gone Fishing said:

Actually, I rather like the reference in Mclintock and Strong regarding this one: "soiled (i.e. with sin), impious:-hypocrite"

Now, would that be ordinary or extra-ordinary sin?

That would be the sin of an adulterous harlot, the true apostates, which the early Jewish leaders were in Christ’s day, and the spiritual “Jewish” leaders are, in the organization today.    Matt 12:34; Matt 23:34,35,37; 1 Cor 6:15,16; Rev 13:11,13-17; 17:5,6 

5 hours ago, Nana Fofana said:

I wasn't a witness then, but as far as I can tell, they didn't say that.

Much clearer, though, to me is what some desperately want them to have said, including that.

However, what I was asking is whether  you know how many years it has been since Adam's creation , according to the Bible?

 And do you dispute that 1975 was the 6000th year since Adam's creation according to the Bible?  

And If so, what about it do you dispute?

If you can listen to the video again, you will see that the leaders were very convincing that 1975 was the date Armageddon was to come.  The first speaker is Fred Franz, the past president of the Watchtower.  The other speaker is a district overseer, Charles Sinutko.  There is another recorded talk by a district overseer where he used the phrase, “Stayin Alive ‘till ‘75”.  There are many Watchtower references concerning the date, but you won’t find them in the recent collections of the organization’s website.    

I do not put my faith in any literal timetable because Jesus expects us to find the answers from him that we need to know, at the time we need to know it. John 6:27; Matt 13:44,36,51 

 If we are to look at chronology, wouldn’t we be just like the Pharisees who sought a sign for the coming Kingdom?  Yet, the Wt. has set many dates regardless of Jesus’ words.  They have been dogmatic about ignoring Jesus’ words.

Jesus said, "A wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign shall be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.” And He left them and departed." Matt.16:4

Obviously, that 1975 marked the date of 6,000 years of the existence of mankind has nothing to do with the sign of Christ’s coming, but in 1975 Watchtower leaders expressed it as a very big deal.  Men disregarded Jesus’ warning of Matt 16:4, and went with it anyway as they have done so since the beginning of the organization.   Should it be dismissed that Jesus said any who do so are a “wicked and adulterous generation”? 

How do the Watchtower leaders present this false prophesy today?

“This is the way of an adulterous woman:
She eats and wipes her mouth,
And says, “I have done no wickedness.”  Prov 30:20; Rev 2:20; 17:4-6

The Watchtower has a history of chart-making, from Russel and the pyramid measurements, to the “overlapping generation” – all based on a date.  1 Cor 2:13,14

31 minutes ago, Anna said:

One thing is vocally defending the true nature of God, where Christendom has created a mystery pretzel which alienates people from having a relationship with him, and instead worship and pray to his son, and another is criticizing something which has been interpreted in all honesty and as an encouragement to those who are awaiting God's promises for the earth.

The generation timeline is a mystery pretzel.

 The timetable of Armageddon is a mystery pretzel.

There is no reason man cannot give Jesus relative worship, now and in the Kingdom.  Rev 5:12-14; Heb 1:6; Matt 28:9,17; John 9:38; 5:23 

Having a relationship with God requires refinement from idolatry, that an organization can bring one salvation.  Acts 4:12; Acts 17:24,25

God’s promises are given to those who seek out Christ and buy his “refined gold”, free of false prophesy and the lie that an earthly organization is Zion; when it is God’s Temple of anointed ones – those being “trampled” by a false priesthood that is costing the Watchtower millions in lawsuits. Rev 3:18; Isa 2:1-5; 43:10-13; 1 Pet 2:5,9,10; 1 Cor 3:16,17;2 Cor 6:16; Rev 14:1; Matt 24:15; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 13:1,4-8

3 minutes ago, Nana Fofana said:

 

I just now read and listened , but did not see your answer to my question.

Nana, did Armageddon come in 1975, as the leaders of the Watchtower promised?

10 minutes ago, Nana Fofana said:

Do you know how many years it has been since Adam's creation , according to the Bible?

 Do you dispute that 1975 was the 6000th year since Adam's creation according to the Bible?  

If so, what about it do you dispute?

My first two posts cover it.

2 minutes ago, Nana Fofana said:

How many years has it been since Adam's creation, according to the Bible?

Explain?

@Anna, thank you for your explanation.

It is very sobering to think that JWs can speak vocally against the trinity, but not speak just as vocally against the failed doctrine of their own leaders.  If a JW sees the grave error of those leading them, and says nothing, what sets them apart from Christendom?   Rev 13:16,17

27 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Please, Witness - 42 years is a long time to be bitter. It is a long time to still say to our resident fisherman:

It’s not about being bitter, Tom.  It’s about our tolerance to lies – rotten fruit/spiritual food -  and our avoidance of truth. Luke 6:43-45; 2 Thess 2:9-12

God has never condoned deception and lies, and 42 years is nothing to the Father.

And yes, I do pray for JWs to wake up and get out.  Rev 18:4-8 

2 hours ago, Anna said:

I think he/she means that they didn't check the source of the video, but did listen to it. It is guite believable that the recordings are genuine, however the narrative interjection is obviously from an apostate.

Thank you, Anna.  I really couldn’t belief he thought I didn’t watch the video, thus I didn’t respond regarding it.

You say, “obviously, from an apostate”.  You must mean, according to Watchtower’s definition, no? Not according to scripture?   Doesn’t this mean that within the organization itself, there are many hidden apostates who refused to accept 1975?  In fact, if they reject any doctrine, such as “overlapping generation”, wouldn’t they also be apostates? 

If anyone leads another through false predictions and teachings, they themselves are apostates; and for those who gulp these teachings down, they become apostates also, according to scripture. (Gal 1:8,9; 2 Tim 4:3-5) Where does that leave the entire membership of the organization, but as a confusing plethora of apostates?     Ezek 2:6; Jer 51:7;Rev 2:20,21

By such definitions, no one should be speaking to each other in the organization, but it is those who stand up for truth in Christ and speak it, that are labeled and “killed” as an apostate. Mark 13:13; John 16:2; Matt 25:6; Heb 13:13; Rev 11:3,7-10; Luke 17:33,37

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Shiwiii said:

Romans 13:1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.

Further in Romans 13 -    

"Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.  For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same.  For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.  Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience’ sake. "   Rom 13:2-5

46 minutes ago, Nana Fofana said:

6000 years of man's existence did end in 1975.

31 minutes ago, Nana Fofana said:

ACCORDING to the Jewish calendar, Thursday, September 16, 1993, was the festival day of Rosh Hashanah. By tradition the shofar, or ram’s-horn trumpet, was then sounded to proclaim the incoming of the new year. That year is 5754 (Jewish calendar), and it runs from September 16, 1993, to September 5, 1994.

Nana,  how does this defend a false prophesy, or perhaps that isn’t your purpose?  Dan 7:25; Matt 24:36; Matt 16:1-4  I think @Matthew9969 is pointing out that 1975 was preached to be the end of mankind as we know it - Armageddon.   

3 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Usually before I spotlight a video for proof of my point, I go there to see that it really does that.

 

Should you not add: "It is so important that I didn't go there?"

 

 

What about the "nourishing spiritual food" of 1975?  Do you have a comment, or do you prefer to avoid the topic at hand?

14 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Are you saying they are not?

 

Didn't you just say that they did?

 

Didn't you just say Witnesses spoke of nothing else?

 

Do you think it is not?

All that you are pointing out were quotes from the organization.  But you know that, right?  Matthew's words are:

IT'S AMAZING HOW YOU CAN TAKE THE WORDS "6,000 YEARS OF MANS EXISTENCE WILL END" AND MAKING IT END IN 1975 AND CONCLUDE THAT IT REALLY DIDN'T SAY THAT AT ALL.

5 hours ago, Gone Fishing said:

some were. I was there in 1975 and I was not looking to a date. That was because some were not. So I can't see an issue of any significance any more than expectation postponed makes the heart sick. Were you there? Did you attach too much to human chronological speculation at the time?

Did the vast majority of JWs come to the conclusion that 1975 was the date of Armageddon – on their own? 

How did these people come to the realization of the world ending, unless they were convinced that the leaders in control understood Bible chronology?   Consider global warming; whether you believe it or not, you are relying on the scientific experts to tell you what’s happening with the planet; but in this case it doesn’t affect your relationship with family and friends if you choose one side or the other.

Surely you see the confusion by individuals reading the various articles and references to the date, as well as hearing live talks -  all coming from “Jehovah’s organization” and his “mouthpiece”.   

There was a 14% growth in member in 1974.  Why?   I am sure you know why.

By 1976 the growth rate dropped to 4%. 

In 1977, it dropped further, -1%

“Expectation postponed” made their hearts so sick, that many realized the Watchtower was not an organization run by God. 

How do you dismiss scripture, Eoin?  How do you read God’s word that condemns false prophets and ignore it?  Was there ever an instance that God told the nation of Israel to tolerate it?  Think of the generations of JWs that have put up with false dates and changing doctrine; hanging on because the authority over them so thoroughly convinced them it was “Jehovah’s will”, that they remain faithful to the organization!

 ^“And the Lord said to me, “The prophets prophesy lies in My name. I have not sent them, commanded them, nor spoken to them; they prophesy to you a false vision, divination, a worthless thing, and the deceit of their heart. ¹⁵ Therefore thus says the Lord concerning the prophets who prophesy in My name, whom I did not send, and who say, ‘Sword and famine shall not be in this land’—‘By sword and famine those prophets shall be consumed! ¹⁶ And the people to whom they prophesy shall be cast out in the streets of Jerusalem because of the famine and the sword; they will have no one to bury them—them nor their wives, their sons nor their daughters—for I will pour their wickedness on them.’”  Jer 14:14-16

Isn’t this exactly what the organization teaches, that no sword or famine will come upon the Watchtower?  If we take all of this with a grain of salt, then we are blind to God’s righteous expectations to follow his Word closely.  Ezek 14:21; Rev chapter 6

It appears you are attempting to defend a sinking ship.  I truly pray you get off before its too late.