Jehovah's Witnesses WorldWide Budgeting Meeting 2016-2020

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

 

The problem with all financially Liberal minded groups of people ... is eventually the waterfall of free money shuts off, and when you run out of OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY, you have to start thinking rationally .... or go bankrupt.

BUT HAVE NO FEAR!

WITH THE NEWEST GOVERNING BODY MEMBER ....

HELP IS ON THE WAY !

 

 

 

[JW Insider]

On 6/4/2018 at 12:34 AM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I wonder how we are doing since the WTB&TS confiscated all the Kingdom Halls globally

Before looking into this further, I was a doubter, but you are right. The sale of hundreds of USA Kingdom Halls was rushed so that millions were left on the table in order to meet some budgeting goals in the WTS timeline. 

Also the methods used for turning over the ownership of the KH's to the "Trusts" handled sometimes by inexperienced, sometimes young loyal brothers reporting to headquarters is odd. I hear that in some places the ownership of Kingdom Halls has been handed over  to a Circuit Overseer. (Legally this is more "arms length" from HQ, although HQ still gets the complete control of ownership.) I had not wanted to use the term "confiscation" but I realize now that in some countries the method has turned out out to be illegal, and the kinks are still being worked out. The method of "confiscation" really does appear unethical by either corporate or charity standards, but I doubt there will be any lawsuits. You don't bite the hand that feeds you.

[Anna]

I haven't had time to look at all the videos yet but from the vantage point of the ordinary publisher, the rumors that the organization is in financial trouble, hence the cutting down on printed material and sales of Kingdom Halls etc. is true then.

[JW Insider]

On 6/4/2018 at 9:13 AM, The Librarian said:

ONLY $25 million in contingency funds for a global corporation? That seems staggeringly low for what I would have imagined.

That was a contingency fund for just the 2016 service year, but already just about spent, the speaker says. I imagine that they will feel a need for a similar amount every year, so that over 10 years this would be $250,000,000 or a quarter billion. But a contingency is only for the likely percentage of error in forecasting and budgeting the future. It takes longer than planned to wind down a construction project and re-negotiate contracts accordingly. It takes longer to complete projects than predicted. When Trump brags about so many of his projects that were "on time and under budget" it turned out that meant that they were only off by 100% to 200% in scheduling and they only ran over by a few $100,000,000 -- or they were a complete failure and resulted in a half-billion dollars lost. So it's just assumed that "on time and under budget" doesn't really happen in any real life project.

So it could be that a budget line for legal expenses was already considered to need $25,000,000 per year and therefore the contingency budget of ANOTHER $25,000,000 would be spent on legal expenses if those costs and liabilities were higher, or for other areas of mis-judged future expenses.

The WTS had already been paying out many millions in legal expenses for child abuse cases long before the first articles began coming out on Child Abuse in the 1990's. They probably overpaid because they were overly concerned with buying silence prior to learning so many other available maneuvers practiced in more recent cases.

[JW Insider]

9 hours ago, Anna said:

I haven't had time to look at all the videos yet but from the vantage point of the ordinary publisher, the rumors that the organization is in financial trouble, hence the cutting down on printed material and sales of Kingdom Halls etc. is true then.

It does seem serious. Seems probable that the sale of large Brooklyn properties was due at least in part to a debt emergency. The buildings weren't put on the market until the absolute worst time in US History for real estate. They were fortunate in that some didn't go on the market until there was some rebounding. Most publishing houses in the world went through the same type of budget discussions due to the initial expenditures to succeed in Internet marketing as print fades away. Equipment and training and a lot of outside expenditure on a many sub-projects at once would apparently require some debt.

Remember too that it was not just the sale of Kingdom Halls. It was the handing over of the value to a Trust indirectly controlled by the WTS along with a refinancing of a perpetual "loan" that could never be paid off. In other words whatever "maximum" that the congregation had been willing to contribute to the building loan to get the KH in the first place. When they were voting as a congregation to pay back something as quickly as possible along with the excitement of a new or rebuilt hall, the brothers and sisters are typically ready to stretch their budget slightly. That loan payback was dropped, but the new recommended amount to pay INDEFINITELY should now be equal to that maximum: the new contribution goal. Congregations are no longer paying anything back, but paying in perpetuity whether the Kingdom Hall loan would already have paid back or not.

In listening to all the available videos, I was struck by how, except for the scriptural interludes, they sound exactly like every budget and yearly financial meeting I have been to in a large corporation for the last 15 years. All the language and definitions and reasons are the same, and the ideas and recommendations are the same.

Also, I take it there is some future worry based on real pending events. There was some guessing that Geoffrey Jackson had some of this in mind at a recent Assembly Hall dedication where someone claims he made the following points. (I'll give a link, but do NOT recommend any Witness goes there because much of what he says needs to be edited out. I will copy the relevant parts here.)

https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/8oatmt/geoffrey_jackson_preparing_the_rf/

• This weekend in France there was the inauguration of a new Convention Hall. Since it was some "never before seen project" (because done by 3 countries together : France, Switzerland and Italy... wow what an achievement!) they had to do something special.
• So they Had Geoffrey Jackson giving talks and those being streamed to a lot of congregations. Lots of rank file were invited to the Convention Hall, the rest got to see it over TV. The weekend meeting was cancelled and we had two days of this 2-hour retransmissions.
• So he made an illustration. He made sure that everyone got the fact that it was an illustration, not an announcement (laughter in the audience, whats funny about it?).
• Then he said (I'm quoting him best I can remember, but you'll get the idea): "Imagine if next week I go back to US and you see in the news that the whole GB was arrested for no reason. How'd you react? Well, surely you'd say to your coworkers or neighbours: "Jesus warned us. They were arrested for no reason." You would feel bad for us but be proud because you are sure it's persecution from Satan and that we're innocent.
• Now that's not really possible because in the US because you can't arrest someone with no reason like in Russia. So imagine they would make up false accusations, with false witnesses and false testimonies and all the newspaper would talk about how the GB was arrested for stealing billions of $$ to their followers. How would you react when coworker talk about it? Be ashamed? Would you believe it? Well Satan will attack us using lies. Lying about our high morality.
• Maybe they will accuse us of covering child sexual abuser. Would you believe it? Surely we know those lies come from Satan."

Both issues, the "confiscation" of billions of dollars, and accusations of covering child sexual abuse, might well be based on false accusations, but BOTH these items have already been dangerously close to becoming full-blown legal cases, class action and otherwise.

[Anna]

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Congregations are no longer paying anything back, but paying in perpetuity whether the Kingdom Hall loan would already have paid back or not.

So basically renting it from the society.

My friend in a central European country that I had visited recently was telling me of a rather upsetting case of where a KH was put on the market without the friends even being aware of it. What made it doubly bitter was the fact that this KH was completely financed by the congregation, the land being donated by a brother for that purpose, and the building built by the brothers themselves. Apparently it was a really beautiful building and in a prime spot. My friend was mostly upset at the way this whole matter transpired as no one knew about it until one day the announcement was made from the platform that "the society approved of the sale of the building". No one had even been aware....Now, the elders have to figure out how to transport all the elderly publishers, who now have to travel nearly an hour further to another congregation as opposed to 10 minutes to the KH that is being sold.

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I was struck by how, except for the scriptural interludes, they sound exactly like every budget and yearly financial meeting I have been to in a large corporation for the last 15 years. 

I guess one has to look after the money regardless of whether it is acquired through donations or some other way. It seems like they weren't doing a very good job though. Or is it really (?) because of the unexpected lawsuits? I wish there was more transparency. How many brothers and sisters are even aware of this financial problem to date?

[Anna]

On 6/4/2018 at 3:33 AM, Gone Away said:

Amazing how far we have come without these things being as firmly in place as they could be. 

That is a good point. Considering what Jehovah has to work with....can only mean it's only because of him we've come this far. I always say that.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

16 minutes ago, Anna said:

That is a good point. Considering what Jehovah has to work with....can only mean it's only because of him we've come this far. I always say that.

As crusty as I am ... that has always been my viewpoint, and still is .... When the philosophical Three Stooges are continuously cringeworthy, yet accomplish what actually gets done done at the bottom, there is a LOT to be said for that.

It does bother me when I find on tax rolls in Colony Park, about 28 miles from the WHQ, multi-million dollar houses in residential areas owned by the WTB&TS, and right outside the gate of the WHQ massive tracts of land are owned by members of the Governing Body, and finances at and above the Convention level are military secrets.

Rats .... I thought I was going to be complimentary of the things we do right ... but memory is putting the kabosh on that.

I need a drink.

But ... I would rather have a bottle in front of me ... than a prefrontal lobotomy.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

News just in:

Doing the math in reverse shows that the sale price of the Watchtower Properties in Brooklyn, was

ONE BILLION TWENTY FIVE MILLION DOLLARS.

 

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

IT SEEMS THAT EVERYONE KNOWS WHAT THE SOCIETY IS DOING .....

.... EXCEPT THE PEOPLE PAYING THE BILLS.

[JW Insider]

8 hours ago, Anna said:

No one had even been aware....Now, the elders have to figure out how to transport all the elderly publishers, who now have to travel nearly an hour further to another congregation as opposed to 10 minutes to the KH that is being sold.

My elderly parents in Southern California have been attending their beautiful local hall for years and have been asked to go a few more miles to another hall for a few weeks while their own hall is being remodeled. Same situation. They just found out the beautiful hall is being sold and that was the reason for the remodeling. My father is still an elder but his health has now forced him to be the accounts auditor (just a second set of eyes on the accounts). And even he didn't find out the "bad" news until just a couple weeks ago, after it would be too late for the congregation to have any say. I am in the midst of helping them sell their old house and move, but they chose a new place before realizing where the new Hall would be. But it also forces some very odd meeting times, since they are squeezing 4 congregations from their original Hall into 3 nearby Halls. It seems that the new ownership of the Hall allows for decisions to be made without consulting any of the local elders of at least one of the congregations that used the Hall. Don't know if the other congregations were consulted.

8 hours ago, Anna said:

I guess one has to look after the money regardless of whether it is acquired through donations or some other way. It seems like they weren't doing a very good job though. Or is it really (?) because of the unexpected lawsuits? I wish there was more transparency. How many brothers and sisters are even aware of this financial problem to date? 

The year 2000 was supposed to be a big year for the organization when more experienced legal and management personnel began making financial decisions (instead of the GB who would become ecclesiastical). But according to these videos, the GB is still very much involved. But I saw first-hand in the late 70's early 80's and know experiences through the 90's that indicate some financially bad decisions were made by experienced brothers who were given their decision-making authority for their Bethel (bureaucratic) seniority, not for their minds. Brother Dean Songer was the closest they had to a mathematical mind and was sometimes called the "rocket scientist." But his decisions would be overridden by a Max Larson or Richard Wheelock or Daniel Sydlik. The younger factory overseers were the only ones who were being trained in the modern methods of printing, while some of the older decision-makers thought we should have the biggest presses in the world, but of the obsolete kind of presses they were accustomed to. Literally millions of dollars were wasted as they could never get the Behemoth to work. Then when my friends from IBM back home got brought in to Bethel in the new computer department, they claimed that it was a constant fighting match that wasted millions on bad decisions where the "spiritual" decision-maker who was put in charge (for Bethel seniority) kept using that as his leverage to throw out decisions by IBM managers who warned him of his lack of ability to manage any kind of computer project.

I notice that a place in one video seems to throw Brother Sydlik under the bus for constantly quoting Psalm 50:10 and like verses to indicate that Jehovah will always provide, in spite of our mistakes.

• 10for every animal of the forest is mine, and the cattle on a thousand hills. . . . for the world is mine, and all that is in it. (NIV)

I would say that these were exceptions, but I have also heard fairly good evidence that Barbara Anderson, a former accountant (prior to Bethel) and now ex-JW, was promoted to Research in Writing after exposing to Brother Don Adams that the JW construction companies they were using for windows or other supplies had been stealing hundreds of thousands from the Watchtower. She had seen the same things in her accounting job in the "world."

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

My wife and I have cut back our contributions back about 70% for the last three years, SOLELY due to how the WTB&TS has handled their pursuit and perversions of Justice by their legal staff.  Whether or not the GB is aware of that and everything else that is going on financially I do not have solid proof for, but understanding people in general, makes me dislike them even more.

Since I still believe Jehovah's Witnesses are "The only game in town", and there is clear hard evidence that the "game has been rigged", and I have no vote whatsoever ... and neither do you ..... I have only two choices.

Vote with my feet ... or vote with my wallet.

It appears MILLIONS of Jehovah's Witnesses are doing that exact same thing.

Sometimes .... as many Congregations are finding out, as their Kingdom Halls THEY built and THEY paid for are cruelly confiscated and sold out from under them ... you have to just stand there, and allow yourself to be robbed.

Ever notice in this year's Watchtower Study Editions they have prominently mentioned the baptism Dedication Oath , and ONLY cited the FIRST of the two questions? 

I have noticed this twice ... but they did NOT cite the second question.

There is an OBVIOUS reason for this.

This is WHY the Baptismal Dedication Oath was changed in 1985 to include "Part Two", to make us a vassal of the Governing Body and its lawyers .... and why we can now be legally disfellowshipped for such nebulous, undefined things as "brazen conduct". 

It cost them several millions of dollars in lawsuits to figure that out.

What is this undefined, "brazen conduct"?

If you call them to account for things needing serious reform, it means they do not LIKE you.

You cannot expect to treat people with pervasive, institutionalized cruelty, even in mild mannered, soothing gentle tones .... and expect them to like you back.

It is a double edged sword that cuts both ways.

I was showing my eldest son various weapons I have, and I stopped .... paused ....

... and in a conspiratorial low voice asked "I don't have any ammunition for it, but would you like to see the most powerful weapon ever developed in modern times?"

With wide-eyed awe, he wondered what I had that would be that weapon, and he replied in a nodding whisper .... that he would.

I turned around, and out of my desk drawer, I showed him my checkbook.

And yes, dear young ones .... be assured that Jehovah loves you ... and the Governing Body loves you.

Just be sure to keep that saved ice cream money rolling in.