Fleeing from Idolatry

[Witness]

Written by "Joe", a faithful disciple of Christ. 

JW’s claim they are fulfilling prophecy of Matthew 24:14 in preaching the good news of the Kingdom, and claim they’re doing this to the whole population of earth.

There is one major discrepancy in this scenario, Jesus said the final witness before his return is not to the whole population of earth, but rather it is to be directed to the towns of Israel:

“When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.”- Matthew 10:23

God always sent prophets to warn of His people’s sins (2 Chronicles 24:19) and has always worked with Israel to repent. Israel knew His laws, as God made them to be an example for others to follow.

Deut 4:1-8 “Now, Israel, listen to the statutes and ordinances I am teaching you to follow, so that you may live, enter, and take possession of the land the Lord, the God of your ancestors, is giving you. ² You must not add anything to what I command you or take anything away from it, so that you may keep the commands of the Lord your God I am giving you. ³ Your eyes have seen what the Lord did at Baal-peor, for the Lord your God destroyed every one of you who followed Baal of Peor. ⁴ But you who have remained faithful to the Lord your God are all alive today. ⁵ Look, I have taught you statutes and ordinances as the Lord my God has commanded me, so that you may follow them in the land you are entering to possess.

⁶ Carefully follow them, for this will show your wisdom and understanding in the eyes of the peoples. When they hear about all these statutes, they will say, ‘This great nation is indeed a wise and understanding people.’ ⁷ For what great nation is there that has a god near to it as the Lord our God is to us whenever we call to him? ⁸ And what great nation has righteous statutes and ordinances like this entire law I set before you today?”

However, Israel always became rebellious, and relying on their own understandin,g forgot about God, violated His laws, and followed other idolatrous organizations (Deuteronomy 29:26).

Israel’s following The Watchtower organization today is no different than early Israel following Baal.  God does not have an equal, the Watchtower is not God, and there is no wavering (Isaiah 40:25; 1 Kings 18:21). Since God does not violate his covenant (Psalms 89:34), and certainly does not work with the Watchtower or any other organization, God sent a prophet to warn His people, and unless they change their ways they will suffer the consequences. God’s prophet is to shout out loud like a trumpet blast:

"Shout with the voice of a trumpet blast. Shout aloud! Don’t be timid. TELL MY PEOPLE Israel of their sins!" (Isaiah 58:1).

God said “tell my people Israel” of their sins, not outsiders; after all, Israel is to be the example for the world to follow (Isaiah 49:1-6), and if all of Israel is flooded in idolatry and fail to follow Jesus’ commands, what example are they setting for others? So, why is the Watchtower calling out everyone else’s sins, but those of the idol itself? Because idols don’t call out idols, and Satan doesn’t oppose himself (Mark 3:26).

The same pattern of idolatry is happening today. Again, the rebellious house of Israel has forgotten about God and His laws and have surrendered themselves to the laws of the Watchtower, only following what an apostate governing body and their army of elders say, instead of God’s word. Just one example proves this; they believe being submissive to the organization will save them. The organization can’t save anyone (1 Samuel 12:21; 2 Kings 17:15), it’s God who saves (Isaiah 43:11).  They must have forgot that part.

There is a trumpet blast today, but it’s not for the whole population of earth,  God will judge those outside (1 Corinthians 5:12-13). This trumpet blast is directed right at the towns of Israel (Revelation 18:4; Matthew 24:15), and is a chance for Israel to flee their idolatry of the Watchtower and out of covenant with death, (Isaiah 28:15), and return to their covenant with God (Isaiah 14:1; Jeremiah 32:38).

The good news is being preached to spiritual Israel right now, and it won’t be finished before Jesus Christ returns.

https://inthenightaflyingscroll.blogspot.com/

https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2014/06/the-good-news-part-one.html

http://www.christsdisciple.com/

 

[Witness]

I appreciate how the connection is made to Deut 4:6-8, with the failed obedience to the word of God in Christ, by the anointed “Israel” – today's “living stones” of God’s Temple/dwelling in spirit. (Rom 9:6-8,25,26; 1 Pet 2:5,9,10; 1 Cor 3:16) 

 It is said in the post,  “Israel is to be the example for the world to follow”. This is a scripture included in the post:

“Indeed, he says, “It is too light a thing that you should be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob,

and to restore the preserved of Israel.

I will also give you as a light to the nations,

that you may be my salvation to the ends of the earth." Isa 49:6

 

“In the last days

the mountain of the Lord’s TEMPLE will be established

as the highest of the mountains;

it will be exalted above the hills,

AND ALL NATIONS WILL STREAM TO IT.

3 Many peoples will come and say,

“Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord,

to the temple of the God of Jacob.

He will teach us his ways,

so that we may walk in his paths.”

THE LAW WILL GO OUT FROM ZION,

THE WORD OF THE LORD FROM JERUSALEM. Isa 2:2,3

As a JW, I remember well that these scriptures were to mean that nations would stream to the organization, but the organization is not God's Temple.   I believed that the membership would continue to grow by leaps and bounds.  But it isn't happening.  All that they teach are empty lies...stories that have captured the anointed priests of God, who now are silenced under the dominion of men.   (Col 2:8; 1 Tim 4:1; 2 Pet 2:1-3; Rev 13:1,2,5-7,10; 16:13-16)

Mal 2:7 says, “For the lips of a priest should maintain knowledge, and people should seek the law from his mouth; for he is the messenger of the Lord of armies.”

Yet, in the lofty mountain home of Wt., where the anointed are under the dominance of a wicked slave and a nation of elder “Gentiles”, (Matt 24:48-51; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1,2) “Israel” has succumbed to the rules and regulations of these men and their idol “High Place”. They have become like the nations, “serving wood and stone”.

Ezek 20:29-38 

 

[Dmitar]

1 hour ago, Witness said:

There is one major discrepancy in this scenario, Jesus said the final witness before his return is not to the whole population of earth, but rather it is to be directed to the towns of Israel:

Can you explain why you believe your faithful "Joe" is correct with that understanding? It seems there's something to be said about interpretation.

ESV  Matthew 10:23 When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next, for truly, I say to you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes. (Matt. 10:23 ESV)

NAS  Matthew 10:23 "But whenever they persecute you in this city, flee to the next; for truly I say to you, you shall not finish going through the cities of Israel, until the Son of Man comes. (Matt. 10:23 NAS)

NIV  Matthew 10:23 When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes. (Matt. 10:23 NIV)

Also, didn't Christ mention to go throughout the nations?

KJV  Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. (Mk. 16:15 KJV)

Friberg, Analytical Greek Lexicon

[Fri] πορεύομαι impf. ἐπορευόμην; fut. πορεύσομαι; pf. ptc. πεπορευμένος; 1aor. ἐπορεύθην; go, journey, travel, proceed; (1) literally; (a) of going from one place to another go, travel (LU 13.33); (b) with an indication of the point of origin depart (from) (MT 25.41; LU 13.31); (c) with an indication of destination go (to), proceed (toward) (AC 1.25; 18.6); 

How does good old faithful Joe reconcile this with that? Another thing, was the demographics less or more back then? Do you believe the apostles would have made it to the new world (America)? If so, why didn't they?

Therefore, are you referring to a literal application or a spiritual application?

Another thing I wanted to ask you about Pearl Doxsey's stance on door to door, since it kind of falls into this post with interpretation.

Pearl Doxsey:

 Important consideration for you...
"house to house" does not translate as "door to door".

Although the Organization interprets Acts20:20 as meaning a public door-to-door witnessing to strangers, the context of Acts20:20 (as well as Rom.16:3,5; 1Cor.1:11; 16:19; Col.4:15; Phm1:2), proves otherwise. Those whom Paul is speaking to (about teaching them "house to house"), are the same ones he is speaking to in Acts20:18,19,20,28,34,36,37,38 and are those whom Paul knew well.
The "houses" where Paul went to teach, were Christian meeting places...Congregations...not the doorsteps of the public. They did not have church buildings or "Kingdom Halls" in the first Century. These Congregational groups met in the private homes of their fellow local members.

 

 Friberg, Analytical Greek Lexicon

 [Fri] οἶκος, ου, ὁ house; (1) as a place for habitation; literally house, home, dwelling (MT 9.6); of specific houses: as a king's house palace (MT 11.8), as God's house for prayer, worship, etc. temple (LU 11.51); in a wider sense of a city as the home of a community of people (MT 23.38); figuratively, of a community of believers as a spiritual house for God's indwelling (1P 2.5); (2) as those living within a house; literally household, family (LU 10.5); figuratively, as the members of God's family household (HE 3.6); (3) by extension, of the descendants from a common ancestor house, nation, descendants (MT 10.6)

οἶκος N-NM-S οἶκος

οἶκος N-VM-S οἶκος

Does this person, actually understand the true context of Greek writing? In the above example, it would appear she over stretches the facts, since “house to house” can be observed as “door to door.” True, in Bible time, Paul spoke of Christ gospel wherever it would be heard, and at times, in homes that were interested in hearing the gospel.

However, when Jesus sent out his followers to cities or townships to spread the gospel, depending on the independent interpretation, he made a reference in Luke 9:5, “whoever will not receive you” can be applicable to the argument of house to house or door to door. I apply the KJV since Pearl Doxsey relies on the blue letter bible.

^KJV  Luke 9:5 And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them. (Lk. 9:5 KJV)

^NIV  Luke 9:5 If people do not welcome you, leave their town and shake the dust off your feet as a testimony against them." (Lk. 9:5 NIV)

^KJV  Luke 10:10 But into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you not, go your ways out into the streets of the same, and say, (Lk. 10:10 KJV)

^KJV  Acts 20:20 And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publickly, and from house to house, (Acts 20:20 KJV)

^NIV  Acts 20:20 You know that I have not hesitated to preach anything that would be helpful to you but have taught you publicly and from house to house. (Acts 20:20 NIV)

Now she relies on the translation of Acts 20:20 to justify her bad report. Once again, if a layman doesn’t fully comprehend ancient language in its proper context, then people will always see bad reports from those that don’t. What does “House to House” mean? Doesn't door to door imply the same physical application?

 Now, you might claim she has a point, well no she doesn’t. If scripture is to be understood properly and in context, then a person would include the Gospel of Matthew.

^KJV  Matthew 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. (Matt. 10:14 KJV)

 

^ESV  Matthew 10:14 And if anyone will not receive you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet when you leave that house or town. (Matt. 10:14 ESV)

^NIV  Matthew 10:14 If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet. (Matt. 10:14 NIV)

^NAS  Matthew 10:14 "And whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake off the dust of your feet. (Matt. 10:14 NAS)

3614 οἰκία oikia {oy-kee'-ah}

Meaning:  1) a house 1a) an inhabited edifice, a dwelling 1b) the inmates of a house, the family 1c) property, wealth, goods

Origin:  from 3624; TDNT - 5:131,674; n f

Usage:  AV - house 92, at home 1, household 1, from the house 1; 95

Misc:  For Synonyms see entry 5867

There are no notes for this verse.

Then you can literally translate that to include “door to door” regardless if that is not acceptable to the opposition. Does that mean, when a householder opens the door; isn't that an action of the householder? Now, are they obligated to listen? NO! That’s their choice if they don’t want to receive the gospel or listen to the person presenting it.

A person calling themselves “anointed” would not be in a proper position of spirituality to convey such understanding, especially when reciting other text that are supposed to support that kind of bad report.

AMP: Acts 13:10

10 And said, You master in every form of deception and recklessness, unscrupulousness, and wickedness, you son of the devil, you enemy of everything that is upright and good, will you never stop perverting and making crooked the straight paths of the Lord and plotting against His saving purposes?

 

 

 

 

 

[Witness]

57 minutes ago, Dmitar said:

Can you explain why you believe your faithful "Joe" is correct with that understanding? It seems there's something to be said about interpretation.

if you provide me with your email, I'll pass it on to Joe, and he can give you his understanding.

1 hour ago, Dmitar said:

Important consideration for you...
"house to house" does not translate as "door to door".

It does for the Watchtower.  1,424 results for "house-to-house" in regard to the door-to-door ministry, is found on JW website.  Maybe you should contact the GB and tell them your feelings about this. 

1 hour ago, Dmitar said:

Although the Organization interprets Acts20:20 as meaning a public door-to-door witnessing to strangers, the context of Acts20:20 (as well as Rom.16:3,5; 1Cor.1:11; 16:19; Col.4:15; Phm1:2), proves otherwise. Those whom Paul is speaking to (about teaching them "house to house"), are the same ones he is speaking to in Acts20:18,19,20,28,34,36,37,38 and are those whom Paul knew well.
The "houses" where Paul went to teach, were Christian meeting places...Congregations...not the doorsteps of the public. They did not have church buildings or "Kingdom Halls" in the first Century. These Congregational groups met in the private homes of their fellow local members.

This is true.

1 hour ago, Dmitar said:

I apply the KJV since Pearl Doxsey relies on the blue letter bible.

"blueletter bible" is not a Bible, it is a reference point for many translations.

1 hour ago, Dmitar said:

Also, didn't Christ mention to go throughout the nations?

KJV  Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. (Mk. 16:15 KJV)

In the Wt. are people from every nation, tribe and tongue – those who are not anointed as well as those who are anointed. 

The "Marriage Feast" is not only open to all exiting the apostate "city" (Wt),  but  open to nations and tribes  of people found all over the world.  Matt 22:1-14

[Dmitar]

49 minutes ago, Witness said:

It does for the Watchtower.  1,424 results for "house-to-house" in regard to the door-to-door ministry, is found on JW website.  Maybe you should contact the GB and tell them your feelings about this. 

I understand their logic, however I asking you about Pearl Doxsey's logic of not wanting to view it the same. This is why I'm asking you for enlightenment as a bible student under her spiritual care. It also appears, she is or was a Jehovah's Witness. Can you comment on whether she is or is no longer one?

49 minutes ago, Witness said:

This is true.

Can you explain why this would be true as opposed to "door to door" which amounts to the same thing?

49 minutes ago, Witness said:

"blueletter bible" is not a Bible, it is a reference point for many translations.

Oh, I see, it's someone's constitution for bible interest. Thank you for the clarification.

49 minutes ago, Witness said:

In the Wt. are people from every nation, tribe and tongue – those who are not anointed as well as those who are anointed. 

The "Marriage Feast" is not only open to all exiting the apostate "city" (Wt),  but  open to nations and tribes  of people found all over the world.  Matt 22:1-14

How does that not apply to modern times? Are Christians supposed to abandon Christology that Christ himself  included with the gentile nations? It true, Paul included areas that were further away, but their mission didn't stop. Just because Christ died and the apostles, isn't "until my return" have a future application. Otherwise, everything would have been fulfilled in 70 CE. How, can the application of Hebrew 9:28 be omitted, along with other various text, supporting the second coming of Christ?

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

Whilst I'm not involved in this argument and I'm not 'taking sides' either.  What it does prove to me is, that a True Anointed remnant are needed to guide the 'other sheep' that are 'not of that fold'.  

John 10 : 16 Berean Study Bible
I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them in as well, and they will listen to My voice. Then there will be one flock and one shepherd.

Zechariah 8:23  Berean Study Bible
This is what the LORD of Hosts says: “In those days ten men from the nations of every tongue will tightly grasp the robe of a Jew, saying, ‘Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.’ ”

Most non anointed ordinary humans do NOT have multi lingeral education. And do NOT read Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek. So most non anointed ordinary humans that want to be 'other sheep' and want to be the 'ten men clinging to the skirt of a Jew' have to rely on other humans (the JEW) to not only translate the Holy Scriptures properly, but to aslo interpret those Scriptures properly. 

Whilst both of you post lots of information and 'back it up with scripture', you are only two of thousands that have their own opinion. My personal opinion is that neither of you are anointed. The big difference seems to be that @Witness makes statements and shows some spiritual direction (rightly or wrongly), @Dmitar just seems to ask questions but gives no direction. 

There is one thing that does bother me however. If the Judgement / Armageddon is to happen within, lets say,  20 years, and if all humans on earth at that time will be judged as to be allowed to live or condemned to death. To make it right for those people then there has to be an easily recognisable way of serving God through Christ. At this moment in time I cannnot see any recognisable 'religion' to be part of. I cannot see anyone that represnts the JEW. Hence I remain Patiently Waiting for Truth.