Noble Berean

Just now, Nana Fofana said:

He tried, anyway-

"Many who claimed to preach Christianity were drawn into politics with good intentions, but then they found themselves participating in evil. Martin Luther, a preacher and a translator of the Bible, is famous for his efforts to reform the Catholic Church. However, his bold stand against church doctrines made him popular with those who had political motives for rebellion. Luther lost the respect of many when he too began to speak out on political issues. Initially he favored the peasants who were rebelling against oppressive nobles. Then, when the rebellion turned savage, he encouraged the nobles to crush the rebellion, which they did, butchering thousands. Not surprisingly, the peasants considered him a traitor. Luther also encouraged the nobles in their own rebellion against the Catholic emperor. In fact, Protestants, as Luther’s followers came to be known, formed a political movement from the beginning. How did power affect Luther? It corrupted him. For example, although he at first opposed coercing religious dissidents, he later encouraged his political friends to execute by burning those who opposed infant baptism."

I don't think he was endorsing Martin Luther's life, but just sharing a relevant quote. Although I agree that the Reformation failed in that it replaced one tyranny with another. History is tragically cyclical. One group recognizes the tyranny of [insertname]Church, they branch off, and then form another tyranny. Wash, rinse, repeat.

15 hours ago, Gone Fishing said:

But there are a lot of rather ordinary ones trying to lock it up unfortunately.

"Some may feel that they can interpret the Bible on their own. However, Jesus has appointed the ‘faithful slave’ to be the only channel for dispensing spiritual food" (WT November 2016 para. 9).

We shouldn't need anything more than the Bible to find the truth, but according to the WT the Bible and the faithful slave is vital. You can't have true knowledge without both. A person can independently read the Bible, but without the faithful slave they will not have true knowledge. So, the faithful slave is the "key" to the Bible's "lock." Exactly as you stated.

@Israeli Bar Avaddhon wasn't the restraint supposed to exist in the first century when the apostle Paul penned that scripture? Aren't the "two witnesses" strictly end times figures?

4 hours ago, Gone Fishing said:

Oh dear.....................Let's just wait and see eh?

Why don't you go to work on what this scripture means: 

"For the Sovereign Lord Jehovah will not do a thing unless he has revealed his confidential matter to his servants the prophets" Amos 3:7

We don't have prophets at this time @Gone Fishing. The complete Bible is our prophet now. Anyone can read it and grasp its message. You don't need any "special" humans to unlock its message.

Brilliant job on the chronology @Israeli Bar Avaddhon...

 (Joshuastone) has a similar chronology laid out (pasted below). I've found his charts to be incredibly helpful in grasping end-times chronology.

On 10/10/2017 at 6:09 PM, Anna said:

It has everything to do with it since we are talking about the generation that was anointed before 1914. (Jesus talking about the signs of the last days which began in 1914 and THAT generation not passing away). Therefor the person would have to have been baptised before 1914. So it's that generation.  .

Which is where we encounter the problem because THAT generation is all but dead now and it does not apply to M. Sanderson, since he was baptised and became one of the anointed well after 1914 BUT, and this is the whole point of the overlapping generation, his life OVERLAPPED (between approx 1977 when Sanderson was baptised and 1992 when Franz died) with the life of one of the anointed who was baptised before 1914 (Franz).

It really doesn't matter how nice they make it sound...at the end of the day this "two groups" theory is human extrapolation and it does not have clear, Biblical support. This is the same organization that doesn't use the word "cross" in its translation despite historical records of crucifixion because the Aramaic word "stauros" does not clearly mean cross. And they were correct to do that! Our Bible should be the evidence. Let's not go beyond it. And there is no clear, scriptural evidence that the generation in Matthew 24:34 is two overlapping groups.

Not once did the GB suggest that the generation could be two overlapping groups until after the first theory failed. And the idea that the generation was one group existed for nearly a century. So, is this a case where the generation "evidently" meant two groups, or is it an attempt by the GB to force a square peg in a round hole? Wouldn't it have made more sense to throw out that failed idea and reevaluate our understanding of the prophetic framework? Even if 1914 is a valid prophetic date, why take the risk when it's been interpreted wrong before? In an organization that puts such value on Bible truth, wouldn't it make sense to discontinue a theory that has proven unreliable and has even mislead JWs? The GB did the opposite. They manufactured a new definition for generation that suits their need to keep 1914 a valid date. The GB holds onto 1914/the generation dearly, because it gives people a sense of urgency and makes our organization prophetically significant. Without it, JWs may become disillusioned or not cling to the organization. There are plenty of human motives for keeping this failed theory around, but at the expense of spiritual truth.

11 hours ago, Diakonos said:

As printing is reduced it will become easier to rewrite all the embarrassing statements online that never materialised.

Thank goodness for diligent individuals online who have saved the originals...

@Matthew9969 Perhaps it is coincidental, but it's not an absurd idea. Not sure how you can't see a similarity. The eye is visible at the top. There are bricks visible. You even see rays/lashes coming off the eye.

1 hour ago, Melinda Mills said:

They probably don't want to start a trend, as it could become touristic.

Don't they want brothers and sisters to come up? They built a museum... 

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Witnesses alone investigate wrong conduct so as to keep the congregation clean, which God expects them to do. In the case of pedophiles, they investigate also to make sure one does not simply slip out of one congregation and into another. That is the sole purpose of any records kept.

If they have ever erred in any investigations, this should not be spun as a negative, for no one else even attempts it, though they all should.

 

They're not being punished for doing the right thing. If the organization's policies were effective, would we be seeing repeated sexual abuse in congregations? It became a big enough issue that child welfare organizations got involved, and the org has faced multiple cases against them. How bad does this issue need to be before it's acknowledged that the policies of the organization have failed in this regard? Sometimes it's best to just to be humble and not let ego get in the way of necessary changes.

The WT organization chooses to be heavily involved in people's lives, so its bears partial responsibility for the continued presence of sexual abuse in the congregation. The organization shouldn't get brownie points for enforcing congregational purity unlike other denominations. That's a give-in if we are to believe this organization is being directed by God. And it's also a misdirection from the fact that this protective system has failed to protect many young JWs.

I think we can both agree that it's the atmosphere of this organization that has led to these legal problems. JWs are taught to rely on the organization to handle issues--the elders and overseers. So, it's no surprise that many JWs come to elders looking for direction on matters of sexual abuse before turning to anyone else. I think elders should always report abuse to police, because that's their moral duty. The hundreds of unreported claims of sexual abuse have left a stain on our organization and God's holy name.

On 9/28/2017 at 1:44 PM, Bible Speaks said:

"Auntie, when I get to paradise who will be my mama and my papa since my mother and father are not witnesses?" The sister replied, "Your auntie and uncle will be there with you."

I don't think I would say this to an adult let alone a young child. Doesn't seem very tactful or appropriate. 

Robert King did a video on it

On 9/6/2017 at 10:12 AM, Otto said:

I think the example of the scripture David gave about the generation in Joshua I forget which one seem convincing and gave the idea of what a generation men from the Bible point of view but really other than knowing the biblical perspective of generation what else is there that can you reference .

I think the brother is assuming that you know what he is talking about by reference to the great tribulation in Matthew and revelation etc.. and brother David splane is assuming that you don't need to be spoon fed on every single thing you know ...that you actually know what he's referring to

There is no consistent meaning to a generation in the Bible, so which one do you pick to apply to Matthew 24:34?  Exodus 1:6 doesn't support a two group theory, because there is no mention in the scripture of two groups living at similar times. The scripture is actually very vague.

Is this really the GB using the Bible accurately or cherry picking a vague scripture to validate a questionable theory?  

It's scary what some powerful people in our government think!

21 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

The reason the Russians CAN do what they do ... is because words mean NOTHING to them.

Words will mean something to Russia when it's the voice of Jehovah speaking on behalf of his people.

This is what the "assembly hall/kingdom hall" looks like on Google Maps.

Here's a link to the Google Maps listing. I've never seen a kingdom hall with a Facebook Page either. I also noticed there is an image of peculiar private rooms on their FB page.

If this is true, it is very concerning to me. I do not agree with our organization using a masonic/illuminati symbol and would like an explanation.

YES! I think it's wonderful! I hope this becomes common. I've noticed a lot of women are doing roles like passing out literature now.

beautiful illustration @Queen Esther

This wouldn't be happening if it was blessed by God.

On 9/11/2017 at 7:21 AM, Alessandro Corona said:

Rutherford claims that an angel revealed to him the identity of the great crowd, we know Angels wouldn't contact humans unless Jehovah sent them, so this was obviously an Angel of light. Does it mean the identity of the great crowd is wrong? If you read the Bible, in Revelation, you will see there are two groups of survivors, one that is numbered at 144000 and another that no man can number, is this a lie? No. 

Could you provide a source on this?

@ImStrugglingBad I am so, so sorry you are struggling with this. 

My heart breaks for our young JW brothers and sisters that are struggling with their sexual orientation. There is little sympathy in the organization towards gay people, and it doesn't feel like the "Christian love" we always here about in the mags. 

But I want you to know that you ARE loved. Don't forget that. You are loved by God, and by me, and by so many other Christians! You are loved for trying so hard to do the right thing when giving in would be so much easier! That's something to be proud of! 

Throw your burden on Jehovah God. Don't worry about what others say. Lean on him alone. He can give you a power greater than human strength.

I have a friend that is honeymooning in Antigua ...hoping and praying that they are safe.

3 hours ago, Queen Esther said:

BEAUTIFUL PAINTED?? But I see Jesus, not Jehovah, our Heavenly Father....

It's meant to represent Jehovah, but they are perfect reflections of each other

The theory isn't difficult to understand, but where's the Biblical evidence? Br. Flodeen gave the concluding talk at the convention and discussed the new theory--not one scripture was referenced! Very strange...

@Nana Fofana was that an attack of my character? I am seeking spiritual truth just like you all. I read my Bible and pray everyday. I'm trying to sort out the nuggets of truth. I don't think anyone on earth has all the answers at this time. My questioning is with the goal of finding spiritual truth. When I look at history of this religion's leadership and the missteps, it shows me that there's no basis to follow this organization without question.

Is the GB comparable to Moses? Did Moses repeatedly mislead the Hebrews with incorrect direction? And what evidence do we that the GB is divinely appointed? Moses face shone with divine light. He parted the Red Sea with God's holy spirit. He erected a bronze serpent that healed the sick.

We could go on and on about Biblical parallels to the modern era. You used the example of the wicked Hebrews in the wilderness. I already used the wicked Kings in Israel as an example. It seems we can all use a Biblical reference point to defend our viewpoint.