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JOHN BUTLER

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Everything posted by JOHN BUTLER

  1. JOHN BUTLER
    It is said that i do "harbor the same for active witnesses within the organization." However the person that says such is lying. Because I don't 'make all members the same', as you pretend. If i say there are vehicles all over the earth, I am not saying that everyone is a vehicle driver. Similarly I say that there is Child Abuse within the JW Org earthwide, but I'm not sayin every JW is a pedophile... What I'm saying is that the danger of Child Abuse exists in every congregation of JW's because it is known that it has occured in many congregations before. And I'm also stating as fact that the GB have known about it for a very long time and it has been kept 'hidden' within the JW Org. 'Hidden' in a way that it is now just becoming known earthwide by people in general. And does a person really have to justify wanting to rid an organisation of Child Abuse ? Surely the GB should have to justify why they haven't acted on it sooner ? Kid, I think you may possibly be the 'troubled soul', hiding your head in the sand. Don't you want the JW Org to be clean ?
  2. JOHN BUTLER
    instead of speaking about their normal lives and why they were disfellowshipped. Their, plural.. they plural. Seems clear to me you were including a quantity of people. Singular would probably been his/her, he,she. So how is that conspiracy ? Maybe the conspiracy comes from you and your accusation that "The idea that those that faded, stopped going, or simply resigned out of their own free will ,doesn’t exclude the fact they will find an insistence to align themselves to the prosecution of the Watchtower, and its members. A bit of a blanket statement it seems. I get moaned at for doing such things when i say Child Abuse is Earthwide in the JW org. But you think it's fine because you sit on high judging Ex JW's.
  3. JOHN BUTLER
    I could answer you on many of the things you have written but in honesty i cannot be bothered. There is no point. We have totally different viewpoints, so be it. The GB / JW Org have said many times (and it has been in print on here) that a person has to be a JW member to be saved through Armageddon. Now you are not a JW, so you must have your own reasons for not being a JW. And I would think you do not agree with the GB of the JW Org on the point of being saved only through them. You must have reasons for not being a JW, yet you defend them so well. It is your choice. You seem to think I want to destroy the JW religion, you are wrong. I want to see the JW Org cleansed, so that if it is God's chosen organisation then God can use it to the full. BUT if it is God's chosen religion then you should be careful, as you are not one of them. So maybe when Jesus comes to judge us he may find that you are not among his faithful followers. Now you have said that the number of JW's is increasing, but that may not be in a true sense. As I've said before, they seem to be allowing much younger children to 'put in reports' of doing the ministry. The number of JW's earthwide is counted by the number of people doing the ministry. In the past it would only be the older members, not the very young children, putting in a monthly report. However it would seem possible that very young children are being allowed to put in reports, and so pushing up the numbers falsely. Jesus sent out men, not very young children, into the ministry. The JW Org seems to be doing all it can to make things 'look' good.
  4. JOHN BUTLER
    @JW Insider "Although the very next year, the Watchtower moved back to the idea of illiteracy in language education." Though still using the same scripture ? You're not suggesting that the GB twisted scripture one way then the other are you ? Just for their own purpose 'Moved back to' seems to mean that they first used a scripture one way, then another way, then back to the first way. Wow how reliable is that folks ?
  5. JOHN BUTLER
    @BillyTheKid46 Quote "It’s unfortunate former members market the conspiracy theories instead of speaking about their normal lives and why they were disfellowshipped". Wow how sly is that ? If no one else can see it, it is giving the impression that no one leaves the JW Org, they only get disfellowshipped. Sorry to burst your bubble Billy but many of us actually choose to leave the JW Org. Or as they will put it we Disassociate ourselves from JW Org. And yes it would be wonderful to hear why so many leave the Org of their own choice.
  6. JOHN BUTLER
    Maybe it's not that Jehovah needs me or others to make complaint, BUT maybe Jehovah wants me and others to make complaint. Now that could be a sifting of those that want a clean Org to those that are prepared to remain in a disgusting Org. Jehovah often has heard the voices of His people and then acted on their behalf. So in your opinion what does Jehovah think of the way the GB and Elders deal with the important problems within the JW Org ? Because in my opinion Jehovah is withholding His Holy Spirit from the GB and the Org at this time. However i do like that bit where you say "i will end this conversation now because it would appear you are hell bent on exposing only the errors .... " At least you recognise that there are errors, thank you. And you would say that Jesus 'had a big mouth' too then ? The way he spoke to the Pharisees many times. Truth hurts, so you can say i have a big mouth and I will understand your pain. Is it me that is making the preaching work harder, or the Pedophile elders and others that bring Jehovah's name into disrepute ? Come on, open your eyes, it's earthwide news now. From that viewpoint it doesn't need me to add to it, people out there already know. I don't get involved in the protests but i know there are protests in many countries about the problems within the JW Org. Has Jehovah planned all this ? Is it serving a purpose ? Is it a testing ? But why would anyone want to be part of such an Org that has known about these things for between 20 and 50 years, and not done anything about it apart from keep records ? "you have too much bitterness John" Indeed. Have you been a victim of Child Abuse ? If not then you have no idea.
  7. JOHN BUTLER
    James you are so funny i don't know what to believe and what not to believe from you. I'm not saying you tell lies but you make it all sound like a joke. I'll have to just pass it by because i honestly don't know how much of what you say is supposed to be taken seriously.
  8. JOHN BUTLER
    @Space Merchant Quote : But you yourself had posted the gofundme to the very man who took on to the side of aggressive witnessing, as they say, the same man who rallied against another, fat shaming, giving death threats and the like. I can quote you even, as well as your comment on a regarding protest. For this man I even made mention, even responded to you at the time regarding this. You have totally lost me on this one. The only thing i can think of is the London protests, which i thought were going to be peaceful or even silent protests just using banners / slogans. However i found out afterwards that it was not an Anti JW protest but more like an Anti God protest. A homoesxual man protesting and saying that God did not exist was one thing that I disagreed with, and I got muck slung at me for disagreeing with it, from the organisers. So quote me, and make me remember, if you think I'm in favour of aggressive protests....The truth is I am only in favour of sensible peaceful protests and yes i think they can work well. As for my question about gangsters allowing JW's to preach in the area, it was a genuine question. And also my question about do JW's carry a gun for protection in such areas, that was also a genuine question. Remember please I'm in England, i do not know how things are in the USA. Yes we have crime here as well but it still feels safe enough to walk the streets in daylight. Well here in Devon it feels safe anyway, maybe not so much in London.
  9. JOHN BUTLER
    @Space Merchant Your words : The answer he gave isn't a trick question, anyone can answer it, and it is a simple no. Do you know this person well ? I don't know them at all. Therefore I could not answer that question. They asked me if they were a pedophile. How am i supposed to know ? I cannot say that i think they are or are not. I have nothing to base that decision on. But you look for any reason to criticise me. So be it. And you make accusation saying that, " anyone who loses an argument to a Jehovah's Witness will jump straight to child abuse". That is what i call a blanket statement. And it is an excuse that JW's would use to try to cover up the seriousness of the problem. I've told you many times SM, you do not impress me. Nor do you worry me. It's true you have vast knowledge but you pretend to know situations that you do not know, such as actually being a JW. I still laugh at anyone that tries to fit me into a category. Anyone that tries to pretend I'm part of a group of this or that. You have no idea. Maybe if you knew me well you might call me a lone wolf. I don't need to hang on to others. And I'm not scared of the muck you throw at me. God will choose whomever he wants to serve Him. And God will show who the real Faithful Slave is, all in good time. As for me I will continue to warn others about the dangers of the JW Org, for it would not be a Christian attitude not to warn them. I've never said all JW's are pedophiles. What i have said is that the Child Abuse problem within the JW Org is Earthwide.
  10. JOHN BUTLER
    Yes Ephesians Ch 5 is most interesting. As is verse 1 of chapter 1 which reads:- 1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through God’s will, to the holy ones who are in Ephʹe·susa and are faithful in union with Christ Jesus: We note it is to the Holy Ones. Not the earthly class. Chapter 5. v1 says : as beloved children, The children of God are the Earthly class. However v 6 says : 6 Let no man deceive you with empty words, for because of such things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience. The sons are the Anointed that receive the inheritance. So are the 'sons' of disobedience the Anointed that do not serve God properly ? As for your final sentence, you choose how you accept them.
  11. JOHN BUTLER
    @JW Insider So where is one supposed to start ? If you are saying that the Bible might not be the book it should be. You make the plot thicken very much. For simple men such as i who cannot comprehend so much information, is there no hope ? SM talks so much about Strongs. Should we need to dig so deeply to find the truth ? Some of the disciples / apostles were fishermen, maybe not of the highest intelligence ? No insult intended but what I'm saying is they were inspired by God through Christ so they had divine guidance. What should i have ? I don't expect divine guidance, or should I ? Jesus was talking to 'chosen ones' when he said 'ask and it will be given to you'. Hence i believe that only a true anointed class can fully understand the truth of God's word. You seem to say that so many different scholars had so many different opinions. And then we have the GB that at times admit they 'get it wrong'. So who really can we believe ?
  12. JOHN BUTLER
    Best to treat everyone as equal and up the good points and down the bad ones. I've agreed with you on somethings and disagreed with you on others. I don't judge individuals that i don't really know, in the JW Org or outside, but I speak plainly about what i can see to be true or false. I only judge those i know as to whether i should associate with them or not. Some on here seem to describe assertive people as aggressive. Maybe they should learn the difference before commenting on people.
  13. JOHN BUTLER
    @Equivocation No all questions do not have a direct answer, that is worldly thinking. It is trickery just like the Pharisees tried with Jesus. Good try, just not good enough... I'll repeat, I will not judge you. How would I know if you are or not. I know nothing about you. Perhaps if i knew you personally for 6 months, then i could make an assumption. But even assumptions can be wrong. Sorry to disappoint you by not falling for your trick. I would not oppose you, i would just give you a balanced viewpoint. It would seem that you and others look for opposition deliberately. Pretending to be forgiving does not cut any deal with God. .
  14. JOHN BUTLER
    You are missing the point. What you follow is the GB's interpretation of the scriptures. And the GB say they are not inspired of God's Holy Spirit. So what you follow is the GB that guess about things after they themselves read the scriptures. And as I've said, the GB even make note that they might not be right. So for instance, you go on the ministry with a magazine or book to offer to people, but the information in those publications is only guess work by the GB. So it may not be true. You could in fact be offering lies. If you teach direct from the Bible that is much better, but you have to have an accurate knowledge of God's word. You follow your GB through your elders. You do Not follow God through Jesus christ.
  15. JOHN BUTLER
    @Equivocation Quote "I never counted you and I don't see SM throwing all former Jehovah's Witnesses into one pot. He is aware of the different factions of them and the fact he mentioned TGA gives an idea of who among former Jehovah's Witnesses you follow." It's 1.30 pm here in England. Time for me to have some lunch. But I'm actually laughing at this of which i quote from you. How do i put this in a pleasant manner ? I DO NOT FOLLOW ANYONE. I AM A MAN OF MY OWN THOUGHTS. I AM NOT GUIDED BY OTHER, AS YOU ARE. Just because you need to be following someone (your GB and Elders), don't judge me as the same. I do not need to follow anyone human.
  16. JOHN BUTLER
    It is not my place to judge you at all. I don't know you. And even if i knew you well it would still not be my place to judge you. Neither God himself or Jesus Christ has given me any authority, so why would i make so bold as to judge you. However, are you then judging me as being so wicked as to want to harm you or your family ? You say I choose Jehovah's Witnesses because I know it is the truth. That is a sweeping statement. As I've stated before much of the teachings have been changed many times, so much has not been truth at all. Length of Creative days, meaning of Superior Authorities and more... To serve Jehovah only, through Jesus Christ only, would mean questioning your GB on many issues.
  17. JOHN BUTLER
    Ah no, but the GB expect to be believed and obeyed. Even if they do put sly cop outs in their writings. GB : Um we might be wrong but we think this and that, but you must follow us and our Org or you will die at Armageddon. The threat of spiritual death and physical death of not being in the 'Org' and not following the teachings of the GB. Is that really how God wants people to show love to one another.
  18. JOHN BUTLER
    So exposing people for Child Abuse now becomes 'persecuting my own brothers and sisters' does it ? Exposing the GB for their heartless rules, their false information and misguidance becomes 'persecuting my own brothers and sisters' does it ? Well Jesus was accused of much that wasn't true about him. So accuse me of what you will. God himself will sort out whichever Organisation HE wishes to use, be it the JW Org or not. But if it is the JW org then it will need a lot of cleaning out first. Meanwhile you can carry on being a puppet if you wish, but not a puppet for God, only a puppet for the GB.
  19. JOHN BUTLER
    You love making fun of a serious subject it seems
  20. JOHN BUTLER
    Well when i first started studying with the JW Org this scripture was used quite regularly. But I just accepted it as saying that the complete Bible was inspired of God. It is of course, but it never occured to me at the time that 'all scripture' had not been written when Paul made that statement. In my opinion, when many people study God's word with the JW's it's a bit parrot fashion, stick to the book. People don't seem to ask questions. I became of this opinion from the Book Study we used to have on a Tuesday evening at people's home. After the study people would stay for tea and biscuits, and there would be conversation. Most of the conversation was spiritual and I would ask people questions of their understanding of certain scriptures. It became clear to me that most JW's never questioned anything. They just took it for granted that the GB and the Org new everything and got everything right. It was from that time that I started to look deeper into God's word. Unfortunately at 69 years old, much of what I had learnt has gone. My mind / memory has deteriorated. But there are a few things which i still find interesting, and this is one of them. How many JW's ever think of the fact that Paul wrote that information before the other scriptures were written and long before a Bible was composed ?
  21. JOHN BUTLER
    Wow, someone rattle your cage ? You are joining forces with S.M. ? You are counting me amongst violent people ? Just because i am an Ex-JW you think I'm a gangster ? Climb down off your high horse for a moment. If you are a JW you sure don't sound like one. I never said England was peaceful. I said "I'm so glad I'm here in a peaceful part of England" I know what happens in other parts. My brother and sister live in our hometown of Reading, just 30 miles from London. I visit occasionally but only stay for the shortest of time. I also wasn't suggesting that S.M. practised Voodoo. I was suggesting that Voodoo was practised in the area where he lived, as he seems to know about such things. As for me 'following' anyone else, you are totally off course. You seem to be suggesting that anyone that is an Ex-JW must be part of a movement of some kind. How wrong you are. I am not that weak. I do not need holding up by others. I am my own man. I have no thoughts of JW's having firearms. i have no thoughts of JW's harming others physically. BUT i do have thoughts of the GB and JW Org harming people spiritually.
  22. JOHN BUTLER
    SM, you seem to like to say that all Ex-JW's cause trouble. You seem to put them all in the same pot together. Every person on this Earth is an individual. So it is also with Ex-JW's. I for one would never cause physical harm to anyone. I do not go to protest marches or mobs. I do not believe all I read. I never buy a newspaper as each one is biased in one direction or the other. And i do not deliberately hurt people's emotions. I just speak truth as i know it. You have spoken with ex-JW's about their feelings and thoughts. Well that is good. But i tell you that JW's are not allowed to speak to ex-JW's, it is forbidden. Shunning as you know is common. So, JW's cannot ever get a balanced view. If a person is born, raised and schooled in the JW Org', then that is all they ever know. Because they are told not to look outside. My point is to bring some balance in, to let people know that the JW Org is not as pure and clean as some may think. I sit in the middle if you like, a sort of neutral position. Amos 5 v 15 Hate what is bad, and love what is good, Let justice prevail in the city gate.It may be that Jehovah the God of armies Will show favor to the remaining ones of Joseph.’ If you see hate in me sometimes, then it is because i follow God's word and want what is right for people. Just as this scripture says.
  23. JOHN BUTLER
    You talk of the Nation of Israel. They were God's chosen people. Not by their choice as individuals though. So it cannot be compared to the JW Org. The JW Org is made up of individuals that have made a choice to be in that Org. The Org is supposed to be like a New nation. A safe place, a hiding place from the storm of the world. It should be 'looked after', watched over and guided by men of pure hearts. But it isn't. It's an organisation of dictatorship with the threat of death if a person disobeys. Spiritual death at first, then physical death at Armageddon, ( if you believe what he GB says ). You said 'so you leave because of wrong doing of a few in power'. Let me remind you of Hitler. He was in power, but why ? Why did he have such power ? Because people feared him and so they did as they were told. They were his puppets. Hitler could not have done as much on his own. It was because he had so much of Germany under his control and they 'did just so', obeyed his every command without thought or feeling for others. It is the same in the JW org. The Elders are in fear of the GB. The GB are the hitler of the Org. So the Elders are the puppets of the GB, and in turn the congregants are in fear of the Elders, so the congregants are the puppets of the Elders. That is why the JW Org is not pure and clean. If you pollute a river from its source, that pollution will run down through the whole river, polluting all in its path. So it is with the JW Org, the pollution starts with the GB and it runs down through. You are saying to me then, why not be part of this pollution ? Why not invite other people into this polluted Organisation ? I think you will now understand why I left it all. Well you will understand if you want to, but if you want to continue to be blind then so be it.
  24. JOHN BUTLER
    The gangsters allow Jehovah's Witnesses to walk around preaching in these areas ? And do the JW's carry guns? I'm so glad I'm here in a peaceful part of England, although you know we have murders here but they are rare occurrences.  I believe that God finds a person, a person doesn't find God. But how does a person when found by God get out of such a situation as you have mentioned ? An under age prostitute. How will she be able to change her ways so that she can serve God ? A drug dealer that wants to leave his organisation of criminals. It must be difficult for him to break away and start a new life. But, yes we know, with God all things are possible. Â
  25. JOHN BUTLER
    I always thought cows were female, having udders.. I thought it was bulls and steers that were male Chickens too are female here in UK. Males are cockerels or roosters. But I think you are referring to this Macho male image of a man. Does that come from spending years in the Armed Forces or are you naturally a rough, tough type of guy ?  I have no idea where S.M. lives but by the way he talks it must be a dark and dismal violent sort of place, full of voodoo, witch doctors, blood shed and other wickedness. Â
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