JOHN BUTLER

Yes John Wayne and cowboy films. Way on back in the 1950's when I was young and life was simple, not good but simple.

Or fear of being disfellowshipped and completely isolated from everyone you ever knew or trusted.

I'll have to look at that then.

slander /ˈslɑːndə/ noun LAW 1. the action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation. "he is suing the TV company for slander" Judith I think you will find it has been proven that these things happen, hence it is not slander but truth

Just an update for SM really.... The only religion that i know of that go from door to door, house to house every day of every week are the Jehovah's Witnesses. In the twenty years we have lived in this house I have only seen the Mormons three times. I have never seen any other religious person at my door. The Jehovah's Witnesses visit people homes to give personal bible studies, but also to invite people into their Kingdom Halls. One reason I stopped being a JW was because I thought inviting people into a Kingdom Hall was not a good thing to do in light of the Child Abuse problem within the JW org. My point that i am making is that i want to warn people not to go to Kingdom Halls and not to have these 'strangers' into their homes. Because Jehovah's Witnesses are not outwardly honest about Pedophiles within the JW Org it could easily be that a pedophile JW could be in your home or at the Kingdom Hall. I suppose you could say that i feel responsible to the community as i was once a JW myself and would encourage people into the local Kingdom Hall. JW Elders have been known to give private bible study to young children, one on one. So at that time the man would be alone with a child. I think in their official documents they say that this does not happen, but I can assure you it does. And, someone else commented that women too can be pedophiles. Yes of course, so that could cause another problem in the Kingdom Hall where a woman may take a child out to the toilet to 'help' the mother who may have more children in the hall. It is such a shame that people cannot be trusted, and i know it may be only one in a thousand, but it does happen. Because JW congregants are generally lovely people, friendly, kind, helpful etc, there is more chance of something bad happening there. Why ? Because people are off guard, not expecting anything bad. So i am deeply concerned about the welfare of children, but more so in the case of JW Org, because I was once part of that Org so i know that there are lots of children per congregation and i can see how easy it would be for a pedophile to get away with things.

@JW Insider "For many decades the entire anointed remnant was considered to be the "faithful and discreet slave" and this probably raised the question about why they weren't ever involved in doctrinal issues unless they were already part of the Writing Department or Service Department at Bethel. Now, as of 2011, this has changed and the GB claims to be the equivalent of the FDS, which tends to remove the question about why the rest of the anointed are not involved" . @JW Insider "No one claims that God directly gives the GB the spiritual food they see fit to distribute" Wow, here we have something to work with. Let's think on this. All the Anointed were once seen as the 'Faithful and discreet slave'. However the GB, who are not directly guided by God, decided to demote the rest of the Anointed, and to Exalt themselves. Luke 14 v11 'For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted'. So we know that the rest of the Anointed humbled themselves when they were demoted, and we know that the GB exalted themselves by saying only they are the 'Faithful and discreet slave'. Now regarding true guidance from God. Jesus said to his Apostles, who are of course of the Anointed, John 14 v 13 & 14. Also, whatever you ask in my name, I will do this, so that the Father may be glorified in connection with the Son. If you ask anything in my name, I will do it. Also, For everyone asking receives, and everyone seeking finds, and to everyone knocking, it will be opened. Indeed, which father among you, if his son asks for a fish, will hand him a serpent instead of a fish? (Luke 11 v 10 & 11) Therefore, if you, although being wicked, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more so will the Father in heaven give holy spirit to those asking him!” Luke 11 v 13. So your GB that claim to be the 'Faithful and Discreet slave' should be able to ask God, through Jesus Christ, for Holy spirit, to be able to interpret scripture correctly. And your statement that "No one claims that God directly gives the GB the spiritual food they see fit to distribute" should be wrong. However it can be clearly seen that the 'food' given is often wrong. Even to my first point on this comment, about who is really the 'Faithful and discreet slave'. And yet again in the 'clarifications' we have already spoken about. I have a theory, a bit far fetched i admit but :- In one of my comments I said the GB should be removed and replaced. Then someone here said that no one was in a position to remove th GB. Now, perhaps the GB demoted the rest of the Anointed because the rest of the Anointed do have the right to remove the GB and replace them. After all, who can say that those 8 men are more important and should have more power than the rest of them. It may be God's plan in the near future to use the rest of the Anointed to remove the GB and to clean up the JW org. It's just a thought.

Then there are unqualified Elders, that are puppets and told what to 'detect' and what not to.

How very true your words are. The GB have to keep throwing crumbs to the sheep to keep the sheep happy. Even if the crumbs are false hopes. It is good that other people, such as yourself, can see this too.

Thank you for this information Anna. You seem to be proving more and more just how much sexual abuse is going on within the JW Org. And for me it just proves that by leaving i did the right thing. Why would i want to encourage families into this ? The Police or authorities should be taken to court in this case, and if it can be proved that they are to blame for the length of time the abuse continued, then they should have to compensate the Victims. As you say they do delay sometimes, but they should be shown up for their 'mistakes'.

Very interesting, thank you. Although I will disagree with you on some points such as :- 'It also helps us build a Christian character that can keep us free from the world's immorality, ' That hasn't worked in a lot of cases has it ? 'I still associate and preach regularly'. This is one of the things I could not continue to do because the point of preaching is not only to teach others about God, but to bring people into the congregation. I no longer felt that the congregation was a safe place to bring people into, especially young children. 'I don't consider myself to be as "obedient and loyal" a Witness as others, '. I liked this bit, that was how I survived as long as I did in the Org, by not being as obedient as others were...  'The problems certainly do not outweigh the good'. Now that depends if you are a Victim of one of those problems or just a bystander. This comes back to my point about collateral damage. Brothers and sisters that are not Victims do not understand nor do they even want to know. 'It's much easier to be a Christian with a loving brotherhood of Christians around us, related to us in the faith'. Um, that depends upon the weight that the Org puts on people's shoulders. And it depends on the type of Elders you have too. Unfortunately some Elders do lord it over the congregation and make life miserable for the congregants.  'It's not specifically the doctrines', no because they change the meanings so often ... 'There are hundreds of people in our brotherhood whom I love dearly, and I could not associate with them or do things for them if I chose to leave' This is an important point. Because people build their lives around the JW Org. It becomes a social thing as much as a way of serving God. So if a person, such as myself, choses to leave, then they are deliberately cut off, not just from the religious aspect, but from a complete social circle of people. Shunned, isolated, ignored. I was lucky (maybe should not use the word lucky) that i became friends with a business man from London that owns a large seme-derelict mansion close to where i live. So I've spent most of this year doing unpaid work for him, clearing his mansion of furniture and car parts. It came about because of my wife's interest in old buildings and photography. So my wife and I have been happy to have the keys to a mansion and be able to go there any time we want. Without this interest and work i may have gone crazy. I will add i didn't do the work for the owner, i did it for my wife, so that she could go there as and when, and I did it for the mansion itself to give it back some dignity. It's been great therapy. Â

Oh dear. That is so sad. All those misled people. And it seems to be all about Jesus, God isn't mentioned, I don't think.

Well it seems as if Billy the Kid doesn't believe such things, nor True tom. As for why I left and you didn't, different personalities etc, yes probably. And a lot to do with the fact that i got fed up with being told to be 'humble' about everything, which doesn't actually mean be humble it means shut up and do as you are told. As for restarting our conversation, most people here are fed up with hearing from me. Understandable I suppose as truth hurts when it is unpleasant.. I know you didn't start it Anna, nor would you have I'm sure. I suppose being turned away from a Kingdom Hall once (Reading my hometown), being told I couldn't get baptised when i was ready, then being told when to get baptised when i wasn't ready, being in a congregation where an Elder commited suicide (Bristol ), having the teachings I'd been taught at first changed to different teachings, seeing another Elder disfellowshipped and police involved, being threatened with being disfellowshipped for slander, and then a brother being murdered in 'our' Kingdom Hall, then all this Child Abuse problem Earthwide, well it all added up. But up until the time I found out about the Child Abuse problem, i was being humble, doing as I was told, I was hanging in there.... The JW Org has been no pleasure to me, not because of opposition from outside, but because of what i've seen from inside.

@BillyTheKid46 Judge me as you will. I know it's impossible to convince those that are just puppets of JW Org. I still have love for God and Jesus Christ, but not the GB of JW Org, that is simple enough even for you to understand, but you do not wish to believe me as it knocks the GB and the Org so upsets you. You surely know how Jesus spoke to the Pharisees and it wasn't always kindly was it ? Just because i speak a little wildly sometimes doesn't mean I don't love God, Jesus, or truth. As for me only reading what Barbara Anderson wrote, what nonsense. IT IS EARTHWIDE, NOT JUST IN ONE PLACE. There are JW's, even Elders still in the Org, using false names and giving information, not wanting to leave the Org but wanting to get things sorted out and the truth told. It's not my place to name names, or get others into trouble. The GB of JW org does not use Biblical standards, it uses worldly legal standards now. It has two legal departments, one in JW Org and one in W/T. If you want Biblical standards, here's one at Matthew 18 v 6. 6 But whoever stumbles one of these little ones who have faith in me, it would be better for him to have hung around his neck a millstone that is turned by a donkey and to be sunk in the open sea. One of these little ones. The GB's rules and the puppet Elders have stumbled thousands of children and adults... You probably don't believe the amount of people leaving the Org either, and yes i mean leaving not being disfellowshipped. So, walk on. Ignore. Pretend it's not true. I wish you well. No hard feelings. We have different viewpoints, so be it.

So, unsettling as it might be for some, we just will not know how long Jesus meant by "this generation" until the end comes, and no amount of fancy footwork is going to change that. So why do the GB pretend to know ?

@JW Insider I don't know if you are are a Witness now, or past tense, and i don't know what side of the fence you are on. You say, "It was the word used in the publication itself. I agree that it is one of a range of words we use so as not to highlight "previous error" or "former false teaching" etc." ..  Thank you. Quote : "No one claims that God directly gives the GB the spiritual food they see fit to distribute."  I'll have to look into that. But you seem to be saying that those 8 men, the GB, are no better than any other Witness. I don't even know if all 8 are 'of the Anointed'. I would presume they are or they think they are. However then my next question would have to be, Why are the rest of the Anointed not seen as being as important ? And why did the GB actually have written in a W/T that some of those saying they are anointed have got mental issues ? (I remember reading it but don't know if i could find it now)  Two other points, yes i know i go on a bit. There were twelve tribes of Israel (well maybe 13 including the Levites) and there were twelve Apostles (once again maybe 13 including Paul ) so why only 8 men in the GB ? I would have thought it would be twelve (maybe 13) members of the GB and that they would come from different lands around the Earth. It would make far more sense and show that Jehovah is the God over all the Earth not just America  . Â

Very interesting information which confirms another of my feelings. The GB are not the faithful slave class. I do love your use of the word 'clarifications', when in fact you mean, change of meanings. And i will repeat my question here, If the GB are the 'Faithful and discreet slave' why do they not get it right first time ? Surely God does not give them false information ? A faithful and discreet slave would make sure the food he fed the domestics was good pure food, otherwise the Master would not be happy if the slave fed poison to his domestics and killed them spiritually, or at least stumbled them in many cases.

Thank you for your comment and the link is much appreciated. I believe every word of it, but of course many JW's won't. It does very much demonstrate what i have been saying and why i left the JW Org.

@Anna "Problems have arisen because this situation needs also to be handled secularly, and if the perpetrator is found guilty, to be punished by secular law also, not just disfellowshipped." We agree on that point. So why does the GB withhold information ? If all the accusations that the GB have on record were handed over to the 'proper secular channels', then all the accusations could be dealt with and those found guilty could be punished. Whilst now, even if a person has been disfellowshipped, they are still a danger to children outside the Org. And i come back to the 'duty of care' to the Victims and the general public. And as for your 'proper investigation'. It does not take much for an Elder to ask a Victim, 'Do you have witnesses' and for the Victim to say No. Then the Elder say 'There is nothing we can do then'. Investigation over.

I was a baptised brother for many years. January of this year i chose to 'resign' from the JW Org, because of Child Abuse issues Earthwide. I did three months research via the internet before making my decision. Then I emailed as many Elders in the congregation as i could and told them I was leaving the JW Org. I had to go to the KH to sign paperwork and that was it. I am no longer a JW. That does not mean i have turned against God or against Jesus Christ. I still love God and pray often. I still have love for Jesus Christ and pray through him to God. I am still looking for truth through the scriptures and prayer. I have never questioned the existence of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the 'active force' that God uses to 'get things done' and to pass on information to those God wishes to have such information. I find it strange that you refer to 'the Watchtower' as I tend to refer to JW Org. I've always thought of the Watchtower as being the 'business' and printing side of things. However it seems that now JW Org and the Watchtower have different legal departments, to the annoyance of the American legal system. Billy, you've written a lot but proved nothing. Writing about Jesus and the Apostles, giving me history as if I'm a child, does not impress me at all. I asked you what proof you have that your GB are guided by God. You give me no proof. I ask everyone on here what proof they have that the GB are the 'Faithful and discreet slave' and no one gives me any proof what so ever. It was nice of someone, sorry i cannot remember who it was, to show some of the 'cop outs' in Watchtower literature, showing that they are not sure of what they write. Surely if they truly believed that they were guided by God's Holy Spirit, they would have faith in God to know for sure that the things they put into print are from God. In the Revelation book, page 9, the writing with the picture. .... " It is not claimed that the explanations in this publication are infalible " That is a cop out. That is saying they are not sure of what they write. Could you imagine the Apostles starting off talking to a crowd by saying, "We could be wrong but we think .... " NO, the Apostles were guided by God's Holy Spirit and had full confidence in what they preached. It can be proved that the GB have got things wrong many times. Oh how i wish I still had all my study books from the 1970's onward. I'll say it again. God does not give false information. Jesus said "What father, if his son asked for a fish, would give him a stone" (or similar words) God will not mislead true servants of His. So why does your GB give false information ? Answer, because they are not who they pretend to be. Have i found the true answers yet, no. But if I'm looking for clean pure water i don't drink from a muddy pond.

@BillyTheKid46 "Those that stand in the middle as some do, find themselves not just questioning the authority God has put in place on earth, and at times questioning his own words listed in scripture. " So what authority has God put in place on the Earth, with proof please ? Of course we know about the early Christians, but i mean can you prove what authority is in place now ?

But isn't this just going round in circles. The Elders conduct a Scriptural investigation, but only if they believe Child Abuse has taken place. If they dismiss the Victim as telling lies, because the victim does not have two witnesses, or no solid proof, then the 'investigation' is almost nothing. Many victims have said they were not believed. So it's back to square one. Elders are not trained investigators to investigate such matters.

The JW Org / GB say that Armageddon is very close. They also say that Jehovah is speeding up the work in these 'last days'. Now, it seems I'm not one for knowing truth from lies, so people keep telling me, but this webpage/site seemed interesting to me. It seems to show more of a decrease in JW's, but more importantly it seems to show more of a lack of faith, or lack of action / 'works' of JW's. It also shows a large number of people leaving the JW Org. If this video or page has been used before then I apologise for any repeat. But I thought it was of interest. https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/statistics.php

@JW Insider "But only persons who have an extreme ego, or who confuse Jehovah with the organization, believe they are "helping Jehovah." Oh I love that, how true. This is why James could say that true religion that is spotless will look after orphans and widows, for example, without being "spotted" or sullied by the motivations common to the "world." -- James 1:27. So what happened to JW Org then ?

SM I was quoting Billy when he said " Can we say, Christian sects that support the killing of others are reputable men?"  I presume he means such as Catholics killing Catholics on opposite sides in World War 2. and things like that. As for me when you say " you speak as though it is only happening to a sole religious faith alone when all religious faiths are effected, " I have told you many times, my only interest is in the Jehovah's Witnesses Organisation, no other religion interests me. Billy made a good point that JW's do not go to war, as many other religions do. So in that way the JW's stand out as different because they take a firm stand for God by not going to war. SM you said concerning Child Abuse , " it does not derail them, nor will it derail others." Nor has it derailed me. I'm just taking time looking for true direction. Hence when you ask me why I'm not out preaching the Good News, it is because I'm going through a recovery period and I'm looking for truth from God through Jesus Christ. How can i preach or teach others when i don't have true direction myself. That would make me as much as a hypocrite as the GB of the JW Org. I would be giving false information to others just as JW's do.

You don't have to read it, Walk on