JOHN BUTLER

And yet when he judges me you voted it up. I am not a stubborn person ..... S.M. I tell you in truth i never even thought he was making a direct comment against you. I just agreed with the comment as a general comment. Although i know the answers are given to previous comments, I see the answers as more of a general comment to the whole group. And when i said how i felt i was being treated, i did not mean by you personally, I meant generally. . As for the rest of your comment here , it is too long for me to concentrate on. Sorry S. M. I am not a puppet for Srecko and i come here as an individual. I do not take sides, I am my own person. I comment as I see fit and will continue to do so.

If the Bible is the only collection of writings that is inspired by God, then all other writings are from the world or of 'man's thinking', or worse from the devil. I think the Bible talks of the Spiritual man verses the Physical man. 1 Corinthians 2 v 12 -15. T12 Now we received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit that is from God,m so that we might know the things that have been kindly given us by God. 13 These things we also speak, not with words taught by human wisdom,n but with those taught by the spirit,oas we explain* spiritual matters with spiritual words.14 But a physical man does not accept* the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot get to know them, because they are examined spiritually. 15 However, the spiritual man examines all things,p but he himself is not examined by any man. So therefore to examine the truth from God we only need God's written word, which we examine through prayer and the help of the holy spirit..

Yes the GB of the JW Org are constantly calling the Victims of Child Abuse liars. The GB tell the Elders to use the Two Witness rule to pretend the Victims are liars. The GB though are the liars. They say it is ok for the Elders to tell lies as it is Spiritual warfare. Quite funny how they are trying to protect themselves here by pretending that everyone else is lying. However when these reports of Child Abuse / Pedophilia are Earthwide and in great quantity, it would be unwise to turn a blind eye to it all. If the GB and JW org are as innocent as they pretend why would they fear the congregants investigating it a litte.

I keep seeing different religions on here use the pejorative label "APOSTATE"...... Why does anyone in 2018 still subscribe to this antiquated way of thinking? Well this is the Jehovah's Witnesses Public club and that organisation still uses the word Apostate. Hence one reason you see it on here. JW Org and it's GB are basically an antiquated religion in that way. They see it that by pinning such a label on someone then no one else in the Org will talk to them. It works too, none of them locally talk to me. That means of course that all the knowledge I've gained by my research, i cannot pass on to others. But my conscience is clear as I've tried to tell others but they would not listen. It's difficult to converse with someone about the JW Org, that hasn't been a JW. You have to have been there type of thing.

Ecclesiastes 12 v 12. "As for anything besides these, my son, be warned: To the making of many books there is no end, and much devotion to them is wearisome to the flesh". So , it seems in God's eyes we may only need His written word the Bible. If you understood me you would know that I seek truth as to how I should serve God. Yes I do get a bit 'upset' at times, but I'm human, a sinner like everyone. I could come back to other points but it would only be going round in circles.

Just a couple of points Space Merchant. If Hitler had made a comment i thought was true, I would back up the comment, not the man. If Srecko makes a comment which I agree with I will say that i agree with that comment.. I will judge the comment not the man or woman making it. I will also not go back ten pages to look for other comments they have made. I have in fact felt this "stubborn and persistent" attitude against me on here, but I'm not moved by it. Space Merchant says : "But yes, every time a biblical fact is thrown into their face, they are quick to bring up JWs, when I am talking solely about the Church Structure..." Um, go to the very top of the page. Read what this site is all about . JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES PUBLIC CLUB. Then look at the topic heading Jehovah's witnesses ..... Armageddon. What makes THEM think it will still happen ? It is about the Jehovah's witnesses, not about the Church structure or the early church.

OK not a suit but it is 'White man's clothing' 'Western culture' or what ever you want to name it.

So if you have to stop someone, in this case, @TrueTomHarley, check thyself before ye wreck'th thyself because you hit that same road yourself in this sense, in the same topic. The only reason I made response was due to what is said, hence the mention of pillows, take it up with the anti-masturbation Christian community, because I told you before, what you said about masturbation, they didn't take kindly to it, I'd post the comments regarding that, but this is of dress code and such. That being said, back on task here, every culture and or group of people have their own clothing that makes up of where they are from. Regardless, they still hit the modest dress code, as it is not too far off from that in the US and or elsewhere, for even for them, something that is immodest, they will take issue with it. As last time I checked, also, you do not see people wear suit and ties in a shanty town or rural village, the major will most likely stick to modest clothing in their village. Also I haven't see anywhere of a response from Ryan regarding Nationalistic Pride. This, of which was claimed - has yet to be seen.

As it happened I didn't win anything at the auction so didn't have to go. So I edited the comment a bit after. But if that is the best reply you can come up with i can see why you are still a JW, a non thinking machine. Try a bit harder Tom, at least try to show some intelligence.

I'll agree this topic has certainly gone way off line but I didn't start it and I don't want the limelight, even though some may think i do. The word Apostate just means someone that has turned away from their former religion. So the disciples were in fact Apostates to the Jewish religion. But the JW Org seem to want it to mean, someone who has turned against God and Jesus Christ. Hence the JW Org love the word Apostate as it serves as ammunition for them to dislike / not talk to former Witnesses. A rather sad situation but that's as it is. Tom has made a number of sweeping statements or suggestions or implications here, some of which hold water others not. I'll agree with Tom that the 'homosexual lifestyle' is something that some ex JW's turn to. I was very disappointed with the 'protests' in London earlier this year, outside of JW conventions. I'm glad I was not any part of those protests. One particular homoseual showing off and becoming 'famous' amongst the protesters. Yuk. Tom's next statement is so much a blanket statement that i would have thought it was beneath him. "Essentially, they don’t like the idea that Christians should be separate from the world". Really Tom ? And you have spoken to so many of them in person have you about this issue ? Remember you are talking about apostates. People that have turned away from their former religion, not turned away from God or Christ........ There are so many things in your last paragraph that try to once again blanket over all, that it is laughable. 1. Theocracy. Where is your proof of it ? Catholics could say the same sentence that you have written. In fact, many of Jehovah’s Witnesses / Catholics / Protestants disagree with this or that aspect of theocracy. Is it so funny. Unless you can prove without doubt, that the JW Org and it's Governing Body are being directly guided by God through Jesus Christ, then what you are saying means nothing. 2. "We are after all being taught by Jehovah". Sweeping statement with again no proof. Tom, we come back to, 'Can you prove the GB are the Faithful and discreet slave ?' Can you prove they are getting direct information from Jehovah ? If not then your above statement is at best a guess. Oh, and back to the beginning of your comment. "They push for all it is worth the idea that all you have to do is disagree with the GB and you will be expelled!" Um, my brother is an Elder in a congregation here in England and he agrees with me that if you ask to many questions and if you disagree with the GB, you can and probably will be disfellowshipped for, "Causing a division within the congregation". Hence I left before making any statements to anyone.

Who inspected the tightness of their trousers ? No one. Who asked them if they masterbated and told them not to ? No one. There were more important issues then. It seems as if there are no really important issues now, so the GB are making things up to keep themselves busy.

And your point is ? Please don't just slap scriptures all over the screen like 'Gone Away' does. It means nothing. It proves nothing. It is not helpful in any way. I'm sure even the Pope could quote scripture.

This topic is about Armageddon, will it won't it happen ? I get moaned at for not keeping on topic. Therefore if I reply to your comment I will get shot up by the World News Media police. They seem to love to bully only me in this regard. I am actually a 'member' of the JW org web page, with log in details etc. As for it being 'honesty and truth' well that is up to each of us to decide if we believe that. I also studied last Sunday's study article in the W/T, which i found amusing. Even though my wife is told by the Elders not to talk to me about spiritual things, as she is not baptised it not for the Elders to decide, so we still converse about such matters. Concerning the Child abuse issue, I would love to discuss this but it would probably need to be elsewhere or a new topic. As you say, WE are all guilty. That was why I left the Org, so as not to be guilty. But I must leave it there for fear of being shot down.

You are strange. You keep changing direction. It's probs' better i just ignore you. You just pick out random scripture for the sake of trying to look clever. You prove nothing. Gone away, yes you should have, long ago.

Sounds like you are making threats, and proves the WT are getting to be more a part of the world than ever. The GB should give more of it's time to worrying about a more important type of violation, that of children.

Now you are being more precise. Your previous comment was more general. You are using a type of emotional blackmail to try to prove a point which is off topic anyway. JW Dress Rules is the topic, not, being in a concentration camp.

Doesn't God draw each one of us ? But if you read those scripture in context they do not answer my questions. But I'm not after a sparring contest, I'm just looking for true answers.

But the 'man of God' is each individual, not the GB of the JW Org. So unless you love following blindly, as it seems you do, then you, along with everyone would need to make their own judgement as to who is leading us to God through christ.

Yes Anna but, did the Governing Body give themselves the name 'Faithful and discreet slave' and if so what gave them the right to do so ? And then the GB said only they, those 8 men, are that 'slave', not all of the anointed. How can they judge this ? You are saying they are not inspired and there is no direct communication from 'above'. Plus all the things I've spoken about previously, which erk some folks, seem to make it clear that the GB are not treating the congregants in a loving way. Remember 'By their works you will know them'. It would have probably been easier for me to stay in the Org, keep my head down, and not to think, just obey.. That is how i see JW's acting. But is that what Jehovah and Jesus Christ really truly want people to be like ? Blind obedience ?

OH yes so clear. So clear, that there are hundreds if not thousands of so called Christian denominations earthwide. The JW's being one of the smallest. As for your comment "It comes down to who is applying what is true and who is not, and only a few do what is true while others do not". So, you can name who is doing what is true can you ? You can say what is truth and what is not can you ? From an historic standpoint it might be easier, but for knowing who God is using to give the true direction now, can you tell me ? Can you say this 'sect' or that 'denomination' are telling complete truth ? Can you know for sure who has God's blessing ? If you can truthfully answer all of this then God must be blessing you far more that he blesses many.

Not me Tom I'm a rebel. Always have been.  I think of Nathanael "Can anything good come out of Nazareth ? " He must have been a bit if a rebel. As for JW's thinking bold thoughts, that's a laugh. JW's are not allowed to think, they just follow orders the same way as soldiers or police officers. Orders come from HQ, GB, via Elders. ' You must obey, or be, exterminated exterminated exterminated. The whole thing is so funny. That is why JW's are not allowed to talk to any one that leaves the Org, because the one that has left is free to ask questions but those that remain are not. The GB doesn't want JW's to actually start thinking.Â

Ah, but we have to judge or we could just as easily follow the Pope or Archbishop. People hang on their every word. 'By their works you will know them', yes that's for sure. The GB have certainly proved not to be the Faithful and discreet slave  .

You are a joker. If you think you can apply Jesus' words to the GB then you too deliberately sin by going 'beyond the things written'. . My goodness how the JW Org corrupts some people. I would laugh about it but it is such an insult to Jehovah and Jesus Christ.

These guys go totally off topic but I don't mind it takes the heat off me for a while. Â

You talk in riddles, well rubbish actually. I'm talking about the GB of the JW Org, you are quoting Jesus' words. There is no connection.