JOHN BUTLER

Don't feel sorry for me Judith. Feel sorry for those that are too frightened to question the GB and the Elders and the whole JW 'set of man made rules'. I am not anti JW Org, though of course it looks that way. I am anti GB and very disappointed with Elders that just act as puppets because they don't want to lose their positions. As with Hitler who could not have done the 'damage' that he did on his own, so it is with the GB, they could not have ruined so many people's lives on their own. Hence the Elders are to blame as well.Â

Thank you, you have proved my point exactly. If you scroll up to an hour ago you will see that i said 'if i repeat myself then someone will moan about it' and rightly so. I agree with you. But, different people are asking me to defend my position and my comments, so am I supposed to say no ? What you are actually seeing is what you don't want to see, that is, truth.... Sorry if it hurts you. But it's 11pm here in beautiful Devon, England, so I'm off to bed. Good night.

Firstly SM it was Billy i was quoting when i said 'sects'. It was also Billy I was quoting when I said There has to be a distinction'. But it seems Billy is ok with the idea when it suits him. Such as when Billy says " Can we say, Christian sects that support the killing of others are reputable men?" Again I quote Billy : " There needs to be a distinction, otherwise, we’d be no better...... " But Billy, (and SM it seems), does not want to accept this need for distinction when it concerns Child Abuse. The JW org is as much in the bad news for Child Abuse as the Catholic church and others, so there is no distinction. However in the case of the JW Org, who promote God's name Jehovah, they are now bringing shame on that name and on God Himself. Plus, and I'm sure many do not think of this, they are endangering the lives of the congregants by not informing them of the increased danger of assault, either verbally or physically due to the public awareness of the Child Abuse scandal. There are such people in the world around us that do not think twice about assault and I feel the congregants should be warned and no secrets kept. There having been a murder in the Kingdom Hall of what was my local congregation, I'm more aware of the danger now. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-42027285

6 Jesus said to him: “I am the wayf and the truthgand the life.h No one comes to the Father except through me. Anyone that serves God properly through Jesus Christ is a follower of truth, because Jesus is the truth. But many JW's use the expression 'in the truth' to mean being part of the organisation, not as belonging to God through Christ. Quote : "Does this not apply to everyone, who follows in Jesus footsteps?" So does a person have to be a JW then ? Can we say, Christian sects that support hiding Child Abuse / Pedophilia in their organisation are reputable men ? That accounts for a large percentage too. Should honest Christians follow suit? To quote you Billy: , There needs to be a distinction otherwise, we’d be no better for being followers of Christ and unwilling to submit to God’s authority on earth. Where will we be then? if not in the hands of the devil that separates us from the truth. You see Billy that is what I've found. The JW Org is no better than any other one.. And when I've said about the Child Abuse within the Org, others have said, yes but it happens everywhere. And here you are saying, as I've said many times, There needs to be a distinction...

I think I've given many reasons to show that the GB are not guided by holy spirit. If I repeat myself some on here moan at me for being repetitive. It's nice to see that you say Jesus is the Truth. Many JW's say they are 'in the truth', but they mean they are in the JW Org. As you have said Jesus in the Truth, not the JW org. As for the 'reputable men' where are they ? Not the GB of the JW Org, nor the puppet elders.

If I read it right this man lost half of his business because he was disfellowshipped. Um, being disfellowshipped for drunkenness i can understand, but I presume the JW's that stopped dealing with him in business didn't have contracts to adhere to. Best not put all your eggs in one basket then. Probably best to do business dealings in the world that we should be no part of. Obviously I know nothing of this case, but it does seem a shame that he has lost so much because of the judgements of men.

What real honest proof do you have that the GB are guided by holy Spirit ?

You know exactly what i mean Tom. You wrote : "Now, there is nothing significant that enters the meeting content without the express approval of Governing Body members," My point was that the GB are only men and therefore the content of the meetings being approved by men means nothing. It's not as if those GB members have any special link to God. So meeting content is just men talking to men, to decide what they will tell the congregants this time and next time etc. It is funny how they have to keep coming up with things for each meeting and each magazine.

You obviously didn't bother to meditate on what I've written otherwise you would understand it . The Anointed (all of them in my opinion not just those 8 ) are in union with Christ, as Paul wrote. Therefore they are given better, fuller understanding of scripture. It is their job as the 'faithful and discreet slave', to feed the 'domestics' / earthly class with spiritual information. The Christian Greek scriptures are addressed to them, not to the earthly class. The Anointed are SONS of God The earthly class are CHILDREN of God. There is a difference. I think the Anointed 'have an office of responsibility' to feed the Earthly class at that table you mentioned. Giving the pure spiritual food at the proper time. Hence it is very important to know that we get the food from the REAL Anointed ones, so that we know it's pure spiritual food.

Well on here it is sooo easy to just click 'translate' and there you have it, Portuguese to English. It's more difficult to translate American English to English English though Â

self-effacing /ˌsɛlfɪˈfeɪsɪŋ/ adjective not claiming attention for oneself; retiring and modest. "his demeanour was self-effacing, gracious, and polite" Oh you are good for a laugh Tom. And quote: "Now, there is nothing significant that enters the meeting content without the express approval of Governing Body members, " But the approval of mere men means nothing in God's eyes, haven't you figured that out yet Tom ? . My oh my and I thought you had spiritual wisdom. As for the GB commenting on accusations. If only i could find it, I'm sure somewhere the GB or one of its members said that the Child Abuse accusations were the acts of Apostates and not true.

I'm English and have no idea how American law works, or doesn't work. In fact i don't even know how UK law works or doesn't. A few years ago, just before the Jimmy Savile scandal, I requested information about my time in 'Care' in the Children's Home. Using the Data Protection Act i managed to get pages of info about my horrible time in 'care'. However most of it had been redacted, to the point where one page was just black. My next aim was to use the Freedom of Information Act to get information about the people that had worked in that 'Home' during the time i was there. Oh dear, it was almost impossible. The procedure that i would have had to go through would have made it pointless, because i could only read it in their files office, not copy it. When the Jimmy Savile scandal started i stopped making enquiries as I realised i would be seen as just jumping on a 'sexual abuse' bandwagon. The Law of the land favours people with position and power. It is not generally good for the 'working classes'. However it would be really good if these victims get justice, and yes, get compensation directly from the abuser.

Well 7 of the 8 GB are American, and 7 of the 8 GB are white. As for how each of us see Jesus in our hearts and minds, well I would think we see him in a very positive way, so colour doesn't matter. But it doesn't show much 'guidance from God' does it, if the GB have always pictured Jesus and His followers as white ?

Well each to their own but i still maintain that the Scriptures were written for the Anointed only, so therefore we have two problems :- 1. We need to know for sure exactly who the Anointed are. The 'Sons' of God as mentioned in Galatians 3 v 26 -29. 26 You are all, in fact, sons of God through your faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek,i there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female, for you are all one in union with Christ Jesus. 29 Moreover, if you belong to Christ, you are really Abraham’s offspring, heirs with reference to a promise. And Galatians 4 v 6 & 7 Now because you are sons, God has sent the spirit of his Son into our hearts, and it cries out:“Abba, Father!” 7 So you are no longer a slave but a son; and if a son, then you are also an heir through God. That of it's own i think proves Galatians was written by one of the anointed (Paul) and to the others of the anointed. It was not written to 'us' of the Earthly class..... 2. Personal Bible study even through prayer, if we are of the Earthly class, may not give us true understanding, because it was written for the Anointed ones only. Remembering that Jesus said, that although he spoke to the complete gatherings of Israelites on many occasions, only a few were given the gift of the holy spirit to understand the true meanings of Jesus' words. So even if every person (apart from the Anointed) in every nation read God's word for five hours a day, it does not mean any of them would gain a true knowledge or a true understanding of God and His purpose. And if people listen to a 'false slave class' 'non anointed class' then people will only get false information, not truth.

26 For if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth,b there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left,c 27 but there is a certain fearful expectation of judgment and a burning indignation that is going to consume those in opposition. My personal opinion is that the whole of the scriptures were written for the anointed class only. Therefore those of the anointed would have that special relationship with God. So the Hebrew scripture above would have very serious meaning. Why ? Because every one of the anointed would have RECEIVED THE ACCURATE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH. Whereas i do not believe that we, the earthly class, have the capability of 'receiving the accurate knowledge of the truth' in such a special way. Jesus said (recorded at John 10 v 16) “And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold;n those too I must bring in, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd. He must have been talking to the anointed about the earthly class. Calling us 'other sheep' There are other scriptures that make me believe that the Holy writings were meant for the anointed only. Zechariah 8 v 23 23 “This is what Jehovah of armies says, ‘In those days ten men out of all the languages of the nationsc will take hold, yes, they will take firm hold of the robe* of a Jew,* saying: “We want to go with you,d for we have heard that God is with you people.”’ This scripture is obviously talking about a 'spiritual Jew', an anointed one, not a physical Jew. And look it does not say 'only 8 of them', it seems to include all of them. All anointed people are 'spiritual Jews' surely ? So now, if the resurrection is so dependant on our 'way of living' after receiving 'accurate knowledge of the truth', then even more so, is it of the greatest importance to be taught the 'accurate knowledge of the truth', in a truthful way, and by those chosen by God (the anointed), not those chosen by men. Hence we need to be sure who are THE ANOINTED OF GOD.

No pressure then ? No dictatorship then ? No lording it over the congregation ? BUT, No allowing each person to be an individual.  I finished school at 15 years old. I left the 'other' establishment that gave me orders and controlled my life when i was 16½. I will not be dictated to by men. And in honesty neither will most JW's. People dedicate their lives to GOD, not the Org or the GB.Â

So when Jesus said "Father forgive them for they do not know what they are doing" Who was Jesus asking God to forgive. Was it the Romans ? Was it the Israelites that shouted for him to be put to death ? Was it the criminals either side of him ? Who ?

I love the way they throw around these massive figures such as, " the island has been isolated for about 88 million years" and "around 135 million years ago". Please describe in great detail how they get these figures. Thank you.

9 “You must pray, then, this way:“‘Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified. Let your Kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also on earth. After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.10Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Depending on which Bible you chose, but basically it say the same thing. I think this shows what we would look forward to if we serve God properly. I for my part have no interest in going to heaven. And as S.M. says, God's original purpose was for mankind to live here on this planet Earth and that purpose will be fulfilled.

That is why i think we are a long way from Armageddon. I think life earthwide has to get massively worse so that everyone will have to decide which way they are going, serving God or against Him. Whilst we can sit at our computers like this, life is toooo easy. As for JW's just obeying orders, that is tooooo easy too. And i know for sure that a lot of JW's 'just get their hours in', to please the Elders, not in true service to Jehovah. Having been on the ministry and seen them looking at their watches to see if the time is up. No, it has to become more difficult, more effort needs to be needed to prove a person's stance. Like Russia maybe but Earthwide. Everyone losing their homes, Kingdom halls being closed down by governments earthwide. And of course the fall of Babylon the Great has to come first. When Armageddon is really here I think the judgement by Jesus Christ will be short and swift as people will have chosen their side. Whether it will be brutal or not can be argued, but i think the scriptures say that birds of prey will feed of the bodies for a long time.

Yes it seemed strange to me that they accepted people of all different faiths. And i think you have mentioned previously about the Pope trying to bring different faiths together as one. I do understand that it is against God's will for that to happen. The scriptures / Revelation, talk of 'Babylon the Great' and that it will fall (soon?). And that it will be noticable earthwide when it happens. I don't know your feelings on that or about Armageddon. And do you think the 'Good News of God's Kingdom' should be preached by an organised religion of some type now before Armageddon happens ?

Um, twenty field mice. Nice quantity for a pie.

So, should ladies shave their legs if Jehovah created and designed them to have hairy legs ?Â

S.M. I tried to understand where you are coming from, but I failed. I wasn't trying anything on. I just remembered you saying you are a Unitarian in the past and thought I'd look it up. Sorry for being wrong.

'A great amount of rainfall'. I think the flood was a bit more than that. It came upward from the ground as well as downward from the 'canopy'. And the pressure pushing downwards would, one would think, destroy all in it's path. There are of course things remaining intact on the sea bed in various places, and with Jehovah's powers anything is possible. Those that believe, believe. Those that don't, dont. And of course 'science' / governments / businesses will not give praise to God. My view of science is that 'whoever pays the piper calls the tune'. I still think it's funny that someone has dated the building of a pyramid to the same date as the flood.