JOHN BUTLER

And not that anyone can be bothered to go back and see what i wrote but this is the scripture i was relating it to. James 2 v 16. yet one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but you do not give them what they need for their body, of what benefit is it?

Keep throwing it at me guys, i can take all of it and more. Jesus and his apostles suffered for speaking the truth, why should i expect to be treated any different.

Now that question isn't as easy to answer as it might seem. I am a lover of God and Jesus Christ, but not a lover of the GB of JW org. And it would be nice to know your meaning of Apostasy ? Apostasy (/əˈpɒstəsi/; Greek: ἀποστασία apostasia, "a defection or revolt") is the formal disaffiliation from, or abandonment or renunciation of a religion by a person. It can also be defined within the broader context of embracing an opinion contrary to one's previous beliefs. Yes leaving a religion, not leaving God.

Aren't the ingredients already mixed in this case (blood) and the opposite is done, splitting the 'ingredients' apart. If blood is sacred or of high importance to God then surely it should not be messed with or split up in such a way ? Just a thought, though in practice i still don't think God meant it that way.

I would give you the same Luke 17 v 1 & 2 scripture too, but it would be of no use. There are none so blind as those that deliberately will not see. And that seems to apply to you and Anna and Gone Away. I am finding though that visiting this 'site' helps to give me perspective. And although it may not seem so, i do consider both sides of the 'coin'. Yes people can get easily upset by trivial matters i agree, and yes we should all try to overlook 'faults' in others and hope that they would overlook our faults too. But to say that they leave because they can't get control seems a bit far fetched. Unless of course a person enters the Org with such intentions, but I wouldn't think many do that. I do find that in congregations I've known, that individual Elders do tend to take control of the congregation, and the other Elders seem to be frightened of them. You might find that unbelievable. For instance when I reported a situation and was then threatened with being disfellowshipped for slander. The one Elder that threatened to disfellowship me if i didn't withdraw all of my accusations, seemed to back off when i said, 'If you think you have the authority to disfellowship me then go ahead and do it '. He didn't of course as he didn't have that authority, but the threat was only from him, not the other Elders. That Elder now has his father with him as another Elder in Honiton congregation, here in Devon. I dread to think how it is being run now. The two of them domineering the congregation. The JW Org is like a beautiful forest from a distance, but just do not get close and look at those trees or you will be so disappointed.

So the Luke 17 v 1 & 2 scripture means nothing then ? Your saying the Colossians scripture contradicts it ? I suppose you would use that Colossians scripture against the Victims of Child Abuse. So be it Anna. JW's showing true colours here today it seems. I'd give you the same Matthew scripture as above. Give consideration to those spiritually weaker that yourself.

Oh dear, actually it related to scripture, but in truth I'm sure you got the point of it. You and your close friends are ok, so why worry about anyone else. But of course you knew exactly where i was coming from, and didn't like it. So be it, you show yourself to be a true JW in attitude, selfish and not caring of others, other than close friends. Matthew 5 v 46 & 47. 6 For if you love those loving you, what reward do you have? Are not also the tax collectors doing the same thing? And if you greet your brothers only, what extraordinary thing are you doing? Are not also the people of the nations doing the same thing ? I had actually seen this attitude in the KH when I'd asked after someone who has been missing from meetings for a long time. No one really cares. They only care for these close friends. So be it.

https://www.watchtowerlies.com/who_was_edward_dunlap.html

Yep, I think no blood would mean no blood, but did God actually mean that ? I've said before, the Jews practice Pikuach Nefesh. Basically 'save a life'. And the scripture at Matthew 12 v 9-12 shows Jesus viewpoint covering more than the literal Sabbath. We have to remember that the 'done thing' back in the days of the disciples was to drink the warm blood of fallen gladiators. So no wonder Jesus' followers said abstain from blood. Other folks were actually drinking it. I would have thought the seriousness of the blood was that Jesus gave His blood on our behalf.

There is an expression, but i can't remember it properly. It's something about standing too close to see something properly. You seem to have a personal relationship with the GB, a closeness, that would stop you seeing the truth about them. As for getting things wrong. I'm glad Noah didn't get the measurements wrong for the Ark. And I'm glad Moses didn't lead the Israelites to the wrong point of the Red Sea. Are but of course they had Jehovah's guidance didn't they. The GB doesn't. You first tiny paragraph sounds like this to me. I eat well every day and live in a nice warm house, and so do my friends. So why should I or they worry about people who are hungry or cold ? And you last sentence "I'm sorry you have had negative experiences"...... But, I don't just think about my negative experiences, I take time to consider others too. Many Earthwide who were once JW's and have left or been removed because they were stumbled due to the GB policies and the puppet Elders that didn't question orders.. Luke 17 v 1&2 " Then he said to his disciples: “It is unavoidable that causes for stumbling should come. Nevertheless, woe to the one through whom they come! It would be more advantageous for him if a millstone were hung from his neck and he were thrown into the sea than for him to stumble one of these little ones." Watch out GB your time will come.

I can't imagine someone as nice as you ever being outraged Tom.

Sorry but that is the biggest squirm I have read on here so far. We get back to this thing about the GB being the 'Faithful and discreet slave' and Jesus saying that 'Whatever the Anointed ask for in Jesus name it will be given'. And again that 'What father when his child asked for a fish gives a stone instead'. And how much more so will God give the guidance of His holy spirit to those that ask. So why has the GB and the Writing Department needed to misquote, misuse, and mislead the congregation, And you said they, 'use date or chronological system is used without Biblical or secular support'. So guessing eh ? No. Pretending to know, when in fact they don't know. Come on, that is as bad a lying. People hang on their every word. 8.5 million JW's, hang on every word of the GB. And another 9 million bible studies also do the same, because they are told to.

@Gone Away And Thumbs up to the walesonline.co.uk people who seem to be able to present news about Jehovah's Witnesses in a fairly objective manner. https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/inside-biggest-annual-gathering-jehovahs-14991197 Yes good article. Well balanced.

@Gone Away I prefer scriptural quotes on such serious matters. Joel 2:32 is pretty relevant (for me) "And everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved" Peter and Paul referred to this at Acts 2:32 and Rom.10:13. Yes exactly, but the GB and their Writing Department don't seem to agree with you. So maybe you might agree with me when I say the GB give false information. Or at least misleading information not based on Scripture.

Talk to @The Librarian then it's his topic. Look at top of page. I just quoted form topic heading.

@Gone Away Um, erroneous eh ? 15 February 1983 Watchtower, pp 12-13, article Four Requirements for Salvation: “Jehovah is using only one organization today to accomplish his will. To receive everlasting life in the earthly Paradise we must identify that organization and serve God as part of it.” Watchtower March 1, 1985 p 14: “Only Christian witnesses of Jehovah who successfully pass this test will survive and come forth like fire-refined gold for God’s use in his precious new order.” Watchtower September 1, 1989 p 19: "Only Jehovah's Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd," as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil." Watchtower September 15, 1993 p 22: “But if we were to draw away from Jehovah’s organization, there would be no place else to go for salvation and true joy.” Watchtower May 15, 2006: "During the final period of the ancient world that perished in the Flood, Noah was a faithful preacher of righteousness. (2 Peter 2:5) In these last days of the present system of things, Jehovah's people are making known God's righteous standards and are declaring good news about the possibility of surviving into the new world. (2 Peter 3:9-13) Just as Noah and his God-fearing family were preserved in the ark, survival of individuals today depends on their faith and their loyal association with the earthly part of Jehovah's universal organization." Watchtower December 15, 2007: "But Jehovah's servants already belong to the only organization that will survive the end of this wicked system of things." Now i will admit that i haven't looked up these Watchtowers and checked the quotes, so maybe if you disagree with them you may want to check them out yourself.

@JW Insider Quote "Admittedly, I am somewhat of a critical reader and often find things that are easy to disagree with, at least slightly. Usually, it's when our publications make a statement that is not necessarily wrong, but could easily need to be updated in a future publication. This might be for any of the following reasons: Some explanation was worded as if the meaning of a thing can only be understood in one specific way when in fact the Biblical evidence makes it clear that there are other possible meanings and our conclusion is really speculation. Or when a quote is used but it was misunderstood or misused by the writer. Or when a historical event is referred to as evidence of something when the event didn't really occur exactly as was stated. Or when a concept isn't actually explained or defined correctly. Or when examples are used that can easily become obsolete, out of date, and might later require a new explanation if trends change. Or when a specific date or chronological system is used without Biblical or secular support. (Our date might be correct in those cases, but since we sometimes make use of an alternate dating system without Biblical or secular support, I always feel that at least an explanation of our assumptions should be included, so people know why we give a different date from 99.9 percent of encyclopedias, for example.)" So basically when the GB tell lies and / or deliberately mislead the congregation. As it's often quoted: "Ours is not to reason why, ours is but to do or die...... Like I've said before, Puppets. I wonder, What was the true reason the Group study of a Tuesday Eve was stopped ? Sorry that's off topic.

@Space Merchant It makes you think. If a single angel can wipe out 185,000 Assyrian soldiers, how much you think the one made superior to the other angels in combination with the angels themselves will do when that day comes? For their assault will also be directed to those spirit beings who side themselves with Satan as well. Yes SM, it is very serious and does make me think. I hope I will be in the ground before it happens.

Yep shows i should wake up before typing

If SM would be kind enough to go to the top of the page and read the Topic heading he will see IT IS ABOUT JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES VIEWPOINT ON ARMAGEDDON. The question asked in the heading is What makes them think itÂ’ll still happen? I'll make it clear here. It is. What makes the Jehovah's Witnesses think it will still happen ? It is not out viewpoint on Armageddon that is asked for here. So over to all you JW's the question is aimed at you i think. But use your Bible please.  I'll just add one thing though. Jesus warned of the fall of Jerusalem to the Romans, but it didn't happen for a long time. BUT it did happen.Â

I think you are getting confused with John the Baptist who ate locusts. However you may see the reason for my comment if you look on other topics, and i did say IF it is true.

If it's true that they are making 3 year olds unbaptised publishers, then a family with four children and two adults could be counted as six publishers. There by pushing up the numbers of JW's Earthwide if this is used on a large scale. However that household may only have one income, so six publishers, but only one contribution per month. It's not surprising then that the donations are going down, because in earlier years the total number on Witnesses didn't need 3 year olds to make up the numbers. There were more adults to make donations, but now many of them have left the Org of their own choice.

How do you count your membership? We count as Jehovah’s Witnesses only those who are actively preaching the good news of God’s Kingdom each month. (Matthew 24:14) This includes those who have been baptized as Witnesses as well as those who, though not yet baptized, qualify to share in the preaching work. Um, so here we have a 3 year old unbaptised publisher. @Jack Ryan Why would the Service Committe even approve the daughter ? Answer: To make up the numbers as so many older witnesses are leaving of their own choice. I wonder how many young children are being used in this way to make the numbers up. Some families have five children or more. So the 8.5 million 'Witnesses' could be one third of them under ten years old. Having been a witness I've seen how many children are in congregations.

I thought he had his body put on ice so that he could be brought back to life someday.

Now a mother may have to take her 3 year old daughter with her on the ministry, but not as an unbaptised publisher surely. Unless there is more to it than this......