Shiwiii

you're taking us down a hypothetical right? If nothing is said and no one knows anything, then yes on your technicality there is nothing to report ( see John, its the loophole thing again). However, we're NOT talking about hypothetical, we're talking about real life and real people and real situations, or else there wouldn't be any lawsuits....right?

Of course it is. It is the MO of the wt in general. Sadly the good people who belong to this org can't see it yet. They will when the wt/gb pins the onus on the individual instead of the group. Loopholes are common in wt and often used in supporting their view of scripture.

Anna, it IS what we are discussing, what made me think this: this: And so that makes it ok???????? are you serious?!?!?!?!? As people who profess to follow the BIBLE shouldn't the conduct be that above other spheres of society? Or do you feel its ok because everyone is slime? so we might as well be slime too. Sheesh the wt/gb/etc. For reference you can research all of the surrent and past court cases involving CSA in the US/Canada/Australia/England/Germany/Norway/......shall I continue? there is NOTHING Christ-like about allowing CSA or any abuse to continue because the "laws" of men don't require reporting it to the police. So when the ms or elder molests a child and tells the child that he/she will kill them or their family or the family dog , scares them into submission, its ok because they didn't want to tell. Is this what you are saying? Or how about the wife that is getting the crap beat out of her and fears for her life, let it continue because she is scared to report for fear of more abuse? Riiiiight. Sounds like a good plan Anna.

I agree with you, there is NOTHING Christ-like about allowing CSA or any abuse to continue because the "laws" of men don't require reporting it to the police. Can you even imagine, when the time comes, and Jesus is standing there asking each and every one of us about our life choices. When He asks, are some people really going to say "well, there wasn't a law stating we had to report CSA/abuse to proper authorities" Romans 14:10"...For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; 11 for it is written, “As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess[b] to God.” 12 So then each of us will give an account of himself to God."

So when the ms or elder molests a child and tells the child that he/she will kill them or their family or the family dog , scares them into submission, its ok because they didn't want to tell. Is this what you are saying? Or how about the wife that is getting the crap beat out of her and fears for her life, let it continue because she is scared to report for fear of more abuse? Riiiiight. Sounds like a good plan Anna. Then leave crimes to the police instead of covering them up! Report the crime and THEN deal with the sin.

You are missing the point. The point is that people, especially children, are easily coerced into NOT reporting for fear of retribution from the offending person(s). This happens in a lot of cases involving not just CSA but domestic abuse. If these incidences are reported by mandate or not, but still reported, then the PROPER authorities can get involved and asses the situation. The elders/gb/wt/boe/ or ANY faction of the wt are not only ill qualified to handle such cases, they are incompetent at best. like I said, the ONLY thing gained here is that the wt now recognizes that the abuser is the bad guy and not the person reporting to the PROPER authorities.

Melinda, Come on. This IS the wt we're talking about. Well known fact here what CSA means in wt world

Why does it take the Inquisition into the CSA by governments around the world, lawsuits in many countries and the threat of non-profit status in a few countries to FORCE the wt/gb to amend the CSA policy? The article is in the May 2019 WT and the title of the article is "Love and Justice in the Face of Wickedness". "13 Do elders comply with secular laws about reporting an allegation of child abuse to the secular authorities? Yes. In places where such laws exist, elders endeavor to comply with secular laws about reporting allegations of abuse....So when they learn of an allegation, elders immediately seek direction on how they can comply with laws about reporting it." I can see that they still won't enforce reporting to the police each and every CSA case only if required by law. Key word is "REQUIRED" . "14 Elders assure victims and their parents and others with knowledge of the matter that they are free to report an allegation of abuse to the secular authorities. But what if the report is about someone who is a part of the congregation and the matter then becomes known in the community? Should the Christian who reported it feel that he has brought reproach on God’s name? No. The abuser is the one who brings reproach on God’s name." Finally, they finally get it that it is the wrong doer who is the bad guy and not the reporter.......but, I'm sure this is just lip service. And here's why: 16 When they learn that someone in the congregation is accused of child abuse, elders endeavor to comply with any secular laws about reporting the matter, and then they conduct a Scriptural investigation. If the individual denies the accusation, the elders consider the testimony of witnesses. If at least two people—the one making the accusation and someone else who can verify this act or other acts of child abuse by the accused—establish the charge, a judicial committee is formed. And there you have it, two witness rule still in effect and no mandatory reporting of CSA unless mandated by law. However, what is the true gain here? Not much, but some is better than nothing, the fact that whoever reports is not the bad guy, the abuser is. What a wonderful provision made by the loving Jehoverning body. I hope that one day the gb/wt will be on par with humanity in reporting ALL accusations of CSA or any abuse for that matter.

You think that the gb is on par with Paul? Wow, just wow. They got you good

true, but these are contradicting statements

If I accept a Bible study, do I have to become one of Jehovah’s Witnesses? No. Jehovah’s Witnesses love teaching people about the Bible, but we never force anyone to become a member of our religion. Rather, we respectfully present what the Bible says, recognizing that each person has the right to choose what he or she will believe.—1 Peter 3:15. vs So in the video example, these two guys stop studying with the guy because he won't come to meetings and take steps to become a jw? Makes you wonder which of these two, presented by the wt, is actually true? I believe the later is most true. They need converts and since the cart work is sooooo busy, although I've never seen anyone at those carts who weren't jw's already, they must have people knocking down the doors for study and have to turn away those who just are not progressing.

What did John the Baptist wear when telling folks to repent while he was in the desert? Oh, so lemming mentality is just fine with you? The Hare Krishna shave their heads like monks do, is that the same then? Should you be shaving your head because these guys do? Are you equating clothing and money extortion in God's house? I'm pretty sure I didn't read that part about Jesus making a whip to whip those in tight pants or who wore a beard......err wait, didn't Jesus wear a beard? Tell that to the beggars Jesus visited and ate with and healed.

Then why is it asked in a judicial committee for apostasy if you believe that the gb is the faithful and discrete slave?

And here lies the crux of the matter. This is exactly what the gb wants of the rank and file, for them to believe exactly what we are talking about. You may or may not be the exception and I would be naive to think there are not others who hold the same thoughts, but the fact of the matter is that this is exactly what the gb and the wt wants. They want no one to question their view and not to speak about it to others who may have the same feelings, because then there might be a change that was not from the top down but rather from the bottom up. This would disrupt the ivory tower they have created for themselves. I can tell you are sincere in your words,beliefs and your treatment of others and I share many of the same thoughts as you, I just don't hold the gb's point of view as being from God. Thank you JW Insider for all that you contribute here and for helping us to understand the gb point of view when we ask.

but isn't that exactly what the publications state? That they ARE. "They do not claim that this slave class is infallible, but they do view it as the one channel that the Lord is using during the last days of this system of things." Proclaimers p.626 "It is vital that we appreciate this fact and respond to the directions of the "slave" as we would to the voice of God, because it is His provision." Watchtower 1957 Jun 15 p.370 "Today, Jehovah provides instruction by means of "the faithful steward." Pay Attention to Yourself and to All The Flock p.13 Isn't it a disfellowshipping offence to not believe that the gb is the faithful and discrete slave?

But the requirement of jws is to adhere to ALL teachings of wt unless you would like to lose your family or in the case of not having family, be expelled. This is the case even if you know in your heart that you are correct, to keep up with the gb chariot, one must believe what they say verses what the Bible tells them. Again, the Bible warns against such things, juts as you pointed out at Matt 23:1-3.

That is a very weak argument, not on your part by any means. I thank you for explaining this from the jw perspective. To me, this argument presented by the wt, is a deliberate attempt to remove facts from the Bible to support their view. It has no basis other than to establish their own timeline and differentiate themselves from what most Christians believe. The problem will lie with how God views such tampering, ie. Rev 22:18&19.

How does the wt get away with postponing this until 1874/1914/1919/1925 or whatever? How can regular witnesses not see this for themselves? I think this is intellectual dishonesty on the part of the gb and strips Jesus of His role to the jws in general. This isn't anything new, but this is bold of them to do it like this.

How in the world could the gb and the wt make this determination? If the Bible is our guide, as it should be, then you cannot wish away the words written in them. Jesus said in Matthew 28:18 " And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me." How can ALL authority be given both in Heaven and Earth and this not be the King? And I agree with your supporting scriptures (1 Tim 6:15 and Rev 1), the only caveat is that Rev is what John saw in the future.

I hope your little personal attacks make you feel better.

I agree with you that this lawyer is lying. I understand the policy as well and I think you stated it precisely how it is to be applied. The only problem I have is that Mr. Jackson didn't explain it as well as you just did when he was under oath in Australia. Mr. Jackson stated that normal family relations continue, just not spiritual ones. How is this not also lying? Mr. Jackson knows the truth, exactly as you stated it, since he approved it, but yet decides to lie in court under oath? How can an honest person follow the lead of such person(s)?

Interesting point John, I mean if the "closed" club is only comprised of jws that support the gb and the wt, then what is there to discuss? They all nod their head to the same line of reasoning or lack there of. So no progression in thought, only regurgitation of what the gb says. What a boring forum that would be.

Doesn't 1 Peter 3:15 state he should as well? I mean if one were to adhere to the Bible as the standard in their life, then I believe it does.

Who are you trying to fool? You or others? Because it isn't me that you are fooling.

I agree with this by Revelation stating that heaven will come down and God will dwell with His people. wise decision and mine as well, because only God knows and if we seek Him, He will direct our paths. The Bible says you don't have to be. You can have your sins washed clean, right now. This is why Jesus died for us. If we come to Him and ask Him, He will wash us clean and take our blemishes and cast them away as far as the east is to the west so that you may stand before God and know you are covered.