Srecko Sostar

If research within the JW could be conducted that goes back at least 50 years, I am convinced that a large percentage of similar results would be found. All of them would have in common a collective state of mind due to which their view of the "near future" or the future in general, was influenced by the JW religious view of "tomorrow", and that all this "today and earthly" would fail. And that is why you should not put special effort into anything "material". That no plans should be made for the "earthly," but only for the "spiritual." This “spiritual” is, of course, exclusively within the ideology of the WTJWorg. There are capable and wealthy people among the JWs. There are those who came to the organization highly educated. There are those JW parents who have sent their children to college before and today. But a large number of members are "ordinary people", who accept "simple (unambiguous) doctrinal assumptions" regarding their position in the social life of the country of which they are citizens and regarding their own identity. For example, what is shown in one congress video / program - a child who has the gift to play the violin should be stopped to go "in the world" and achieve a career as a musician. Admittedly, I know personally two JWs, a father and a son, violinists, who had problems at work due to their refusal to play the anthem. It is interesting, on the other hand, that I have never heard of them refusing to play another piece of music, and we all, more or less know, that in some compositions or musical performances there are things depicting murders, adulteries, lies and other morally unacceptable things for some JW member. By that logic, a JW musician would often have to refuse to play in an orchestra. From all this and many other life situations, which you have also heard about, it is evident that an individual or a group of believers cannot be completely “pure within the unclean”. Not even within the "spiritual paradise" of congregation.

It is a fertile ground for doctrinal interpretations and for spreading the partial interests of interest groups and individuals. Does this mean that the Bible is written to “hide the truth” from some, and that some others “can see” it, and that third group (others) can abuse it (Bible) to “blur the vision” of those in the first two groups? Do you see yourself in any of those groups or you belong to "fourth" group? :))

In Eden God made law for human to eat vegetables. And God said after every Creative Day; It is Good, Perfect. So, eating vegetables is/was Good and Perfect...in Eden and up until Flood. After Flood God said to Noah; Eat Meat. It is not Perfect Solution and you will have problem with Ecology, Economy and all those stuffs in the Future, but don't worry, i will bring Armageddon on all people who ruined Earth with Global Meat Production and similar things. :))

I have neutral questions: If God created lions and tigers and bears (today predators) and other animals in Paradise Earth of Eden and outside of Eden to eat grass and fruits, Did He created them with teeth and claws and digestive system just for plant foods? After the fall of Eden or after Great Flood, how did these animals become omnivores or carnivores? Did their teeth and claws grow later, so they could catch food? If not, why did God create them with such teeth and claws? If their teeth and claws grew later, was it "micro or macro evolution"? Similar with many other animals in food chain. Birds eats insects. One sort of insects eats other sort of insects. They all killing (murder) each other. And so on and so forth.

Yes for sure, there are people who are highly educated and believe in God as Creator. JW or other religious organizations have in their ranks highly educated people who believe in God. That is a fact. If we stop after this conclusion, then we have no more problems...... .......Yet we have a problem: But in which Creator God do all these highly educated people and scientists believe? In God of Dr Tour? In God of JW's? What religion does Dr Tour belong to? To what extent will JW's accept the conclusions of Dr. Tour, a scientific believer of the Jewish direction, or of the Baptist direction, etc.? ? DR Tour said for Adventistorg. If you really study science, it will bring you closer to God.” But WTJWorg said opposite, You have to study NWT Bible and WTJWorg publications to be closer to God. Tour does not see a conflict between faith and science, having been quoted as saying, “I build molecules for a living. I can’t begin to tell you how difficult that job is. I stand in awe of God because of what He has done through His creation. Only a rookie who knows nothing about science would say science takes away from faith. If you really study science, it will bring you closer to God.” - https://www.adventistreview.org/church-news/story15332-andrews-university-to-host-origins-lecture-by-distinguished-scientist He also said: Only a rookie who knows nothing about science would say science takes away from faith. This is interesting. GB (rookie in Dr Tour mind) say opposite, stay away from higher education because you will loose your faith in JHVH. :))

“Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you”. Matt 5:44 (what did A. Morris say about his “enemies”) This is really serious and sobering. You connected that perfectly! Thanks! The "spirit" of A. Morris' is bad spirit.

Unfortunately, most Israelites failed to allow themselves to be led by the Law to Christ ( Matthew 23:15; John 1:11 ). That is why Jehovah God rejected that nation and caused the birth of 'Israel of God'. In addition, he invited non-Jews to become full citizens of this new Israel ( Galatians 3:28; 6:16 ). - https://wol.jw.org/hr/wol/d/r19/lp-c/1995484 I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew... - Rom 11

It may be the same kind of problem WTJWorg has regarding the redress scheme in Australia. The Jehovah's Witnesses have refused to sign up, arguing the religion did not have the "institutional settings" needed to be covered by the scheme. Perhaps South Korea, also, do not have "institutional settings" to please, to meet the requirements (scheme) of JW members about this issue.

.... and expecting obedience to, THEIR word – the word of men not inspired by Holy Spirit. This is so well said. What parallel do I see with the words of the apostles, to obey God rather than men? To whom did the apostles not want to submit? They did not want to obey Sanhedrin and the elders of the Jewish people. To the spiritual leaders of their own people and religion. Did the members of Sanhedrin claim to be inspired by God? Did Sanhedrin claim not to be inspired by God? GB claims that they are not inspired, but that they must be obeyed. Religious people, JW also, accept the claim that the Bible is inspired by God. And this fact (that the Word is inspired by God) provides in itself proof that people should accept God's guidelines and be obedient to that very Word. On the other hand, we have the fact that GB is not inspired (according to their own claims). And that fact ("we are not inspired") provides the basis for what the apostles claimed, Not to obey (GB) people who are not inspired by God, because their “commandments” (doctrines) are not God’s, but human’s. Was everything the Sanhedrin taught wrong and contrary to God’s Law and Word? I don't think we could say anything like that. But still, the Sanhedrin and many religious leaders, the elders, violated God’s law and God’s word in many things. Both in word and in spirit. That is why it was justified for the apostles to oppose it. Today JWs have a Biblical precedent from the book of Acts, to oppose their religious leaders (GB and elders) for the same reasons and in the same way as it was in the 1st century. Can Acts 5 be identified with Romans 13? In Acts it is allowed to oppose spiritual authorities. The Epistle to the Romans calls for obedience to secular authorities with no alternative. But whatever we personally decide, every choice carries good and bad consequences. Each of our choices will make us stronger or weaker, that we are winners or losers, happy or unhappy. “As long as we’re alive nothing is lost,” one man said.

"Alternative service" in East Europe for JW's who refused go to military service. If my memories serving me well, I heard that in Czechoslovakia (info from native bro and sis in Bratislava in the mid of 1980) they tell me how you can choose between going to prison for few years (and perhaps again if you refuse service after prison time) or going working to mine under contract, and have normal working time as all other civil person who are mine worker, going to home after work and so. Perhaps long life contract. So, this "problem" in South Korea is just "piece of cake" :)))

Separation between religious and political things and decisions in Old Israel.

Sorry, you are wrong about premise that I am discriminator. Simply, i was raised from my childhood as part of JW Church and spend cca half of my life (it depend how long i will live ;)) ) as member of WTJWorg, and as such i can't speak in this way about Catholics or Adventists etc. Paul and Caesar example you brought is interesting. And it is different of what we have today as "politic" of WTJWorg and State Courts. As i can see, Paul preaching caused trouble to him. He made some activity in Temple and spoke about "new light" and against established priesthood. Reaction of people and establishment was expected. What he done? He tell few things that average JW's today will not tell as evidence for defending nor in every day life. First thing. Paul said: I am a Roman! (Roman citizen), and by that identified self in a way that JW today not see themselves as important or even separated from this world who put nationality and nationalism as important (i am German, American, British etc). Paul done exactly opposite of JW members are thought today, to not put national belongings in first place. JW have to be neutral in such matters. They are "global citizens" not belong to any particular nation, but belong to New World Nation. Second thing Paul done is his calling on his Higher Educational Level and belonging to Higher Class of Israel Society. He said, I am Pharisee! Imagine, he openly said he is part of blamed group. Will JW today say, Your Honor, I am professor (not janitor, so my words are important) and I am (ex) member of Catholic Priesthood. Third thing. Secular Courts don't want today to be involved in church theology and questions of church doctrines. And WTJWorg Lawyers using this very much and very good (in USA call for 1st Amendment, i guess). Well, Paul done opposite. He wanted secular Judge to make decisions about religious questions. ;)) Fourth thing. Paul didn't want go to Jerusalem Elders for jurisdiction process, but to secular, pagan Roman courts. Amazing. JW's today are instructed that all religious and even some secular questions need to be presented before Elders and GB Administration. And how it is shameful if they bring brother before "unbelievers". Please tell me, where and when we live today, and how Paul is role model for JW members in this matters?

I guess how people will be in conflict about "give God and give Cesar", because this are Two Masters you have to please :)) and Bible is very clear with command to JW members; obey, be in subjection to secular government :)) What do you think about "separation" in Old Israel Theocratic State, in time of Saul, David, Solomon and others? Who obey and how - God JHVH vs Kings?

I guess how people will be in conflict about "give God and give Cesar", because this are Two Masters you have to please :)) and Bible is very clear with command to JW members; obey, be in subjection to secular government :))

Thanks to God JHVH, because he allowed "secular governments" and "secular people", who opposed the Nazi invasion with full force and enabled today’s freedom, even for those who refused to contribute to the Allied struggle, to win in that battles. Since the JW's believe that "gentile time" is over in 1914, do you think the YHVH intervened in historical events of 1941 and helped the "Allies" to overcome the "Axis Powers"? Because, under Hitler, WTJWorg could not serve God and preach and have congresses and other stuffs, so to speak. So, YHVH had an interest in one side winning and the other side losing, right? Can you prove that YHVH did not interfere in earthly conflicts od WWII, precisely because of your doctrine of “gentile time” which teaches how God’s passivity lasted 2520 years and ended in 1914, and because he, supposedly, create Earthly Part of his Government in Spiritual Paradise of WTJWorg. Nazi German was a real threat to JW's to completely exterminate them from Europe. So, God would lose his "witnesses." How could that not happen, maybe he sent Michael again to oppose some another "Prince of Persia"? :))

"In 2000, Taiwan implemented an alternative civilian service program that allows conscientious objectors to fulfill their obligation to perform national service without violating their conscience. Under this arrangement, those who conscientiously object to military service have been given the option to work in hospitals, in nursing homes, and in other areas of the public sector." - quote from link you provide. "In particular, the petitioner insisted that two clauses of the law, which require 36 months of in-camp service twice the active-duty service duration of 18 months, run counter to the Constitution, due to their punitive nature." - quote from link 4Yah2me provide. First, how much time last civilian service in Taiwan? And second, as we see, the place where the replacement service is performed is very different and it seems that working at local correctional facilities is "uncomfortable", to petitioner, compared to what is offered in Taiwan. Third, GB WTJWorg are not willing to agree to any kind of "civil service". In the past they objected to the jurisdiction (who is in charge) of the civil service, and similar. GB can be picky. :)))

Mansikka got the idea about Neb-V from Furuli book?

Translators translated words they found in copies of Scriptures. Did Moses wrote Hebrew word that we have today translated in Bible as - "day"? And did the word he wrote signify what people today think it meant? How did Moses understand the inspiration, which told him to write the word “day” or a word that signifies what is not (which need not be understood) a day of 24 hours, but it is 7000 years or some other longer period of time? Should he have been interested in how long the "day" lasted? Did Moses anywhere in his writings gave specific idea how to understand "Creative day" duration? Did he understand or try to understand, did he care, about how long "day" lasted? Did he (or some other biblical writer) indicate that the duration of the "creative days" should be counted and associated with any prophecy? Or to link them to any interpretation like those that WTJWorg link to 1914 or 1975?

I think i can understand what you say. On other side, if Genesis book speak about "Day" in which God created this and that, than "faith" will believe what Moses wrote - "the day" (from sun to sun or from from sunrise to sunset), not 1000 or 7000 years or eons. If believer have faith that God can create things in literal 24 hours, because he can and want, than interpretations, on what word "day" means in Genesis and what "day" means in other part of Bible, are not necessary for faith but for mind.

Because of the identical flood stories, but in different parts of the planet, it could be that similar cataclysms occurred in different places at different times to different people. It would also mean that “God warned" not only Noah, but other individuals or groups of people around the world as well.

.. said in video: I hope that perpetrators everywhere are brought to justice Not to use groups as scapegoats Crimes to not go unpunished Family CSA and Institutional CSA Beliefs of organization not driving behavior of CSA JW have not/are not guilty for "typical" CSA as it is case in many other religious organizations because JW do not have set clergy as in Catholic Church. JW operate as lay organization. No "Sunday Schools" JW are not "closed society" Most cases in JW are in fact incest, abuse inside family and relatives The JW families decided to keep the matter a secret Ex-JW demonized WTS Victims with their lawyers want money WTJWorg Lawyers made claims how Elders are Clergy and how JW have hierarchy which is same as in Catholic Church.

The history that emerged in Croatia in 1991 has no influence on the history that was created in the USA at the same time. The records that were created at that time are of the greatest importance for each nation separately. And every nation can best interpret the historical records of its own history. But let's say that the then president of Croatia, F. Tudjman, asked the then president of the USA, George H. W. Bush, to send an air force and retaliate against the JNA, which was against the independence and creation of the Croatian state. What will be written about it in Croatia, and what in the USA? And what about the rest of the world? What documents can we find today, 30 years later? What will we find after 2520 years? One could argue that the conversation between the two presidents did not take place, but would anyone argue that these two presidents did not even exist, just to prove that this kind of conversation did not take place? Or vice versa.

I am not versed in this subject enough, but I suppose that the ancient peoples at some point introduced a systematization (record) of their history on the basis of several factors; the change of seasons, the movements of the sun and the moon, and the existence or duration of rulers. Were the Egyptians more precise than the Babylonian and Assyrian “astronomers and historians”? Did the Babylonian astronomers know better than the Assyrians? That can be discussed, of course, but for some other reasons. In the context of this club, the question arises; Is all this dilemma aimed at further proving that one religious theology followed by 8.5 million believers possesses the “truth” about the beginning and end of the “gentile times”? Is it really necessary to revise the chronology from that time because it is wrong? Or people who disagree (as WTS researchers and scholars) have failed in calculations, similar to Mr Mansikka's first version when he added 20 years to Nabonidus?

I agree on that what you said about "revision". But in "second edition" author came with completely new idea, not just add few new information about old theory. In fact, he completely rejected his own old theory. For example, "overlap generation" is not just minor revision of "generation of 1914" with one or few new details. That is completely new doctrine based on old (wrong) elements. When Mansikka add 20 years to Nabonidus rule period (17 years) which is official by historians, that is serious thing. When author rejecting own previous conclusion and bring to readers idea of new king, "Neb V", which he installs in history simply by writing a new edition of the book, that is completely irresponsible. This says a lot about the value of both books, and puts the author in the position that the reader should not devote his time and attention to reading the books, and should by no means believe what he says. JW or ex-JW, many of them can say and write nonsense. I have never read a single book of COJ and don't know about editions. :)) Thanks for info :))

@César Chávez What you're doing in this post is "trolling", isn't it? :))