Jump to content
The World News Media

JOHN BUTLER

Member
 View Profile  See their activity

  • Posts

    1,653

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    14

 Content Type 

Everything posted by JOHN BUTLER

  1. JOHN BUTLER
    Oh so you do think you have the right to judge me. Maybe you think you are anointed too... Dream on. Any one of the anointed would never support the JW Org. The Child Abuse, the misuse of scriptures. The false prophecies. The GB falsely claiming to be the Faithful and Discreet slave. the GB telling others of the anointed not to make contact with each other. The GB telling Elders that they can tell deliberate lies and claiming it is spiritual warfare. The GB / Elders threatening the congregants with disfellowshipping if the congregants dare question the GB's rules or decisions. What you have in reality is a dictatorship by the GB. Only now they are being shown up for who they really are. God, who's name may be Yahweh or Jehovah, has given Jesus Christ the authority to judge. And it looks like the judgement has started within the 'household'. I don't know if God will use the JW Org after cleansing it, or if He will wipe it out and use a different Org. But God demands that His anointed servants be perfect. As for us earthly class, I don't think we were supposed to fully understand the scriptures. A scripture that says about' ten men clinging to the skirt of a Jew' and saying 'we will go with you people as we know God is with you people' (not exactly quoted but near enough to get the meaning). I know that the 'Jew' means spiritual Jew, but it would refer to the whole anointed not just your 8 men in America. You may well be guided but its not by God's Holy spirit.
  2. JOHN BUTLER
    I've just re-read that 'ask the police' link, and yes i agree to a point. However the rest of your comment i take as a joke. You pretend that the Org is run properly, justly, honestly fairly, etc.... Firstly, you seem to put the blame on me, Quote : "If you feel unable to talk to an elder directly,"... Exactly what are you implying here ? Secondly, "you could write to the body asking them to contact you.. " You are so funny. The last time i wrote to the body of elders I actually thought that 'The Body of Elders' got to see the letter. How wrong I was. Maybe two or three Elders got to see that letter. One of which contacted me to meet the 'Elders' at the KH for discussion. When i went to the hall there were two elders there. The one Elder sat in front of me, the other sat behind me. The one in front did all the talking, and told me directly that if I didn't retract all of my accusations, then I would be disfellowshipped. So much for me trying to help keep the congregation clean. I never trusted an Elder since then. And having questioned other Elders after that 'meeting', they said they had no idea what letter I was referring to. I know that is all totally off the topic but it gives you insight to my reasoning. There is the other point as well. I've said i don't trust the Elders and I will be blunt and say I think they would destroy evidence that they already have. If I thought the police could go into the KH and get the written 'notes' that would have / should have been made at the time, then it would be a lot easier to report it to the police. But as it seems Elders refuse to hand over documents / notes, even if a Police officer has a warrant, then it might appear that I'm just causing trouble with no basis for doing so.
  3. JOHN BUTLER
    Wow, now you think you have been given authority to judge me. However you do not answer my question The GB either translated as such, or allowed to be translated as such, Nails plural and Hands plural. If they had thought it was one nail through the wrists I'm sure they would have said so in the NWT.. It's not terribly important but just shows another instance of Luke 16 v 10 The person faithful in what is least is faithful also in much, and the person unrighteous in what is least is unrighteous also in much. It shows that the GB are unfaithful and therefore unrighteous.
  4. JOHN BUTLER
    You are exactly right on both.
  5. JOHN BUTLER
    Anna, all i have is third hand information. And all i have is the name of the accused and his father. I do not have the name of the young girl that was the victim, or the name of her family. So if I report it to the police they would want the name of the person that informed me. In the situation with the Elders, they know the victim, they know the accused, they have details of the situation. The Elders have first hand information from both the accused and the victim..... What i have is third hand information that I assume is correct. I have no reason to disbelieve the person that told me. They told me because i was telling them the reason that i left the JW Org. Whilst i was telling them my reason, they assumed it was partly because of this 'situation' with the details here, that I left. They wrongly presumed that this 'happening' in 'our congregation', had triggered off my leaving. But even though i was part of the congregation at the time it must have happened, i had no knowledge of it then. It seems to me that JTR says do not go to the police, whereas you say go to the police. I'm not trying to start a war here. If i had the name of the young girl I would indeed go to the police. Especially as it seems her father wants to keep it quiet. Why would a father of a young child that had just had such a terrible experience, and on her own bed too, want to keep it quiet ? That child may think about it every time she goes to bed.
  6. JOHN BUTLER
    James, we are going round in circles here. When I've brought up the idea before that the Elders should always go to the police with ALL information of accusations of child Abuse, I have been shot down in flames for it. You are advising me I should approach people that will not even speak to me. But not to go to the police. If I approached the Elders with the information that I've been given, knowing full well they will do nothing about it, then I'm just creating a loophole for myself. Just saying 'well I've done my bit'. It that the moral obligation I have ? PLUS. in my honest opinion that would give the Elders the opportunity to destroy the written evidence which they would have recorded originally. Over to you to explain in plain English what my moral obligation is...
  7. JOHN BUTLER
    So why in the New World Translation did they use, or the GB allow use of, the word NAILS = PLURAL ? Deliberately confusing people ? Or, as i believe ,they are not guided by God's Holy Spirit, and they do not have a clue.
  8. JOHN BUTLER
    As i said before the GB of the JW Org do create confusion in people's hearts and minds. The Elders then add to that confusion. Before i left the Org one of our daughters became 'no longer one of JW's'. I had no idea why. So if I hadn't talked to her I would not have found out. However I made it clear that i would never stop talking to her and I would always be there if she needed me. Each JW is an individual and can act as they want. My brother has chosen to stay in seme-contact with me. However the over 100 JW's in my ex congregation do not talk to me. Even a brother that said he would visit me after 6 months, never has, proving himself a liar. My feelings are now very mixed. I think God, who's name may be Yahweh or Jehovah, has given Jesus the authority to judge each of us, whether in or out of that Org. I also think there are good and bad people in or out of that Org. We allow ourselves to cause division within our families. It doesn't have to happen.
  9. JOHN BUTLER
    JTR you talk in riddles and seem to make jokes out of serious situations. So basically I've no idea what you are talking about. Americans always seem to talk in monetary terms. Money is of no interest to me. I think the scriptures say it is for a protection. For me it puts food in our stomachs and fuel in the vehicles. Ok now, QUOTE : BECAUSE, for you, this is ONLY hearsay, you have no responsibility whatsoever to report this to the police, but you do have a responsibility to report it to the Congregation Elders ... if, and ONLY AFTER you have had a thorough discussion with all parties involved ... but ONLY as a "heads-up", so that they do not get sucker punched. 1. As I'm no longer a JW, and when i was a JW i was threatened with being disfellowshipped for reporting something serious to the Elders, then I think they would just pretend i was trying to cause trouble. 2. I said in my original post that the Elders already know, but they 'did nothing', well nothing visible to others. 3. I do not know 'all parties involved' I know the accused and his father. I know the age of the 'victim' but not her name nor her family name. 4. I only have third hand information to go on. 5. Because i am no longer a JW, NONE OF THEM will have conversation with me. So how could i even talk to them ? And as Anna said "because some of those people might get the mistaken impression you are doing this out of a grudge." I'm just letting it bide. The shock is wearing off a bit now. I will do it the American way, do some research into what my legal obligation is.
  10. JOHN BUTLER
    John 20 v 25 Thomas said :- But he said to them: “Unless I see in his hands the print of the nails and stick my finger into the print of the nails and stick my hand into his side, I will never believe it.” Now did Thomas know exactly how Jesus died ? Because he said Hands and Nails. Both of which are plural. It would seem to me that the GB / Watchtower were just looking for another way to be different to Christendom. But they messed up by having the scripture as 'hands' and nails'
  11. JOHN BUTLER
    Thank you again for all your help, on this matter and on the other matter.
  12. JOHN BUTLER
    @Space Merchant Quote : "Plus this should be discussion with those of your circle rather than here" I don't have a circle. Jehovah's Witnesses are 'encouraged' not to socialize with 'people in the world'. That means only mix with other JW's. Hence now that i am no longer a JW i have been completely shunned by all of them. That amounts to well over 100 people locally... 100 people that will not speak to me, not even to say hello. So I have only my wife and son for company. My son is at work most days and my wife spends time with her mum and our daughters and grandchildren. Hence i had spent so much time working at the 'Big House', most days alone. That is why i brought the problem here. Even before i put it up on here I had gone to my bedroom and prayed to God and cried about it. It hurts me, the problem itself, the people involved, and not knowing what to do.
  13. JOHN BUTLER
    @Anna Thank you for this information. The scripture at John 20 v 25 only mentions Thomas speaking about hands and nails. No mention of feet. The scripture mentioning feet in Luke 24 v 39 is Jesus' words not Thomas'. But i like that it says "That could have meant a nail through each hand, " I do not know what 'page 24' refers to however, as the picture i used is on page 52 of the 'Bible Teach book'. And I like the phrase "are merely reasonable artistic renderings of the scene" .. What i mentioned before as artistic licence. It would be nice if you could tell me exactly what 'page 24' refers to please. Thank you again, John
  14. JOHN BUTLER
    COLLATERAL DAMAGE I have mentioned this before in relation to the Child Abuse within the JW Org. I have said that this is now part of the American way of life. Am I right ? Please see this news topic :- https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/us-led-airstrikes-in-syria-kill-more-than-40-people/ar-BBPP2oR?ocid=ob-fb-engb-57&fbclid=IwAR3sDT7gl1pENiozYl1BnLE8stM26PaWSHF5ODvtswyYXan0wB_OxpDAePQ
  15. JOHN BUTLER
    OK, I've sort of shot myself in the foot by saying I'm now going to take this forum as a joke and have a laugh. In most ways i will continue to do so BUT. This evening I was given some information that 1.maybe I shouldn't have been given. 2. Maybe i wish i hadn't been given. Some of you may say I'm telling lies. Some of you may say I'm just after attention. Some may say I'm just trying to put down the JW Org. However i have to think on something i say a lot. DUTY OF CARE. Care of everyone, in or out of that JW Org. I have been given this information :- Somewhere between 18 months to 2 years ago, a young man that is a member of Honiton Congregation (my ex congregation) committed a sexual offence against a young girl that would have been around 7 or 8 years old at that time.. The young man was visiting the home of this child and he went up to the girl's bedroom and asked the girl to have sex with him. I do not think that sexual intercourse took place but from the information that I've been given, he laid her on the bed and got on top of her and 'humped' her as if he were having sexual intercourse with her. The incident was reported to the Elders and the police were not informed. I have no idea what action the Elders took but the congregation were not informed. The young man ( who's name I have ) would have been in his very early twenties at the time, but his mental age is lower. He is a bit slow in learning things and possibly has mental disorders. That is not meant as an insult, but i do know this young man personally and he does act a bit strange sometimes and frightens people. The young man's father was a single dad of three children ( i knew this man quite well ), but he invited a foreign lady (a sister in the JW Org) over to the UK, and they married. The marriage did not go well as the woman wanted to 'be the boss'. They split up and she went back to her country of origin. But then she came back to have a 'second try' at the marriage. I do not know the marriage situation at this time. However the whole issue would have been totally upsetting for the three children, especially for this young man that found it difficult to cope with some situations. The person that gave me this information, in my opinion, is completely trustworthy, and once again in my opinion, would not have any reason for making up a 'story'. As I was given the young man's name, and i know the young man and his father, it all seems quite genuine to me. Now i come back to the duty of care. For, in my opinion, it is the duty of anyone that has any information concerning child abuse to report it to the police. This could be just a one off incident, but it could be the start of a young man becoming a pedophile. I honestly don't know where my duty is here. The young girl that was the victim of this assault may need help getting over the situation. The information was also that the father of the victim does not want 'any trouble'. Hence he did not want the police involved. That helped the Elders to keep it secret, well almost. Now this young man may commit sexual assault again, within the JW congregation or outside of it. And that young lady will be in fear of him and yet still have to attend that Kingdom hall where she will see him every week. So should i report what i have been told to the police or not ? Of course I would have to tell the police it is only third hand information. BUT, if the police could get hold of the 'records' / paperwork from the Kingdom hall regarding the incident, then it would be proved as true. I do not expect that the Elders would willingly hand over paperwork, so I've no idea how it would work out in the end. But it's my actions that I'm concerned about here , my responsabilites. What should i do ?
  16. JOHN BUTLER
    @Space Merchant By your hand ? Not by God's hand. None of us know when this old system will end. None of us know who will survive and who will perish. Do you not believe in One Ark = One religion, to survive Armageddon ? Can a Unitarian and a JW both survive ? Must your family be Unitarians to survive ? Do you know who the true Spiritual Jews are ? After all the scripture says we should hold on to the 'skirt of a Jew' and we 'should go with those people'. Here on the forum many have different opinions as to who those Spiritual Jews really are. I came seeking wisdom and have found none. I have only found people that love to disagree with each other. Hence i am now turning it into a game. I visit this site for a laugh. It's impossible to know truth from lies, lies from mistakes, genuine feelings from wind up merchants. It's only good for a laugh. I will agree with you on your last sentence. Happy are those who serve the True God. But it's knowing the 'proper way' to serve God that is confusing.
  17. JOHN BUTLER
    I think that put the Kid in his place. Just shows how well the JW Org had trained him, to use one meaning but deliberately leave out the second meaning. Oh dear. Thank you for this well thought out comment.
  18. JOHN BUTLER
    You are so funny. That's Anna and you have made me laugh today.
  19. JOHN BUTLER
    @Anna Anna, you've just made my day. I laughed at this comment. Thank you And i loved the smutty bit.
  20. JOHN BUTLER
    @Space Merchant I think i will continue to like every comment you dislike just for the fun of it all. You seem to love linking me with others, so be it. I will join in your game and it will become fun for me. A bit of light hearted pleasure. As for you implying something like 'Butler said that the GB of JW org are demonised' Well maybe they are . Jesus said as recorded at John 8 v 44 You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father. That one was a murderer when he began,c and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie. Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees but they had been God's chosen people, part of God's chosen nation. Yet he said they were from their father the Devil. So, think on it, why cannot the GB of JW Org be from 'their father the Devil' ? And if that is correct they would be demonised, or would that be Devilised. Remember that many Jews / Israelites remained in their Jewish faith, but they were wrong not to change. So just because the JW Org has 8 million followers, does not make it right. If the amount of people in a religion made it right then the Catholic church or Islam would be more right than the JW Org
  21. JOHN BUTLER
    Only Thomas' words in the Bible of course. But then you seem to be doubting God's word here. Holes in the hands where the nails passed through.
  22. JOHN BUTLER
    They mess up family relationships for sure. They get people not really knowing what to do for the best. For one instance, my brother who is an Elder. I talked through with him before I let the Org, and he agreed that i would get Disfellowshipped if I shared my views with others before i left.... Since I've left and my brother knows my reason he is not against me, and he said I have not sinned against God, so he knows no reason why he should not talk to me. However he doesn't phone me like he used to and i can't phone him.. He does occasionally send me cuttings from a newspaper that he thinks might interest me, but not spiritual things. It's like he wants to just keep in touch but at a big distance, and of course he has told me that I'm not allowed to mention anything to his wife and grown up children about it. I would have been going to visit him to help him clear out two of his large sheds, but now it will not happen as he's too worried about me telling everything I know to his family. It's his loss really but i do feel sorry for him. He's 77 years old and has prostate cancer. He wants to sort out his belongings, mainly the big sheds full of stuff, so that his wife isn't left with 'loads of junk' as she would call it. He's probably dying and he's frightened to have me visit him. Why ? All because of the GB rules.
  23. JOHN BUTLER
    Well i know three sisters that would go every Sunday but not go in the evenings, because only one of them could drive and she will not drive in the dark. Also old brothers that can hardly see and should not be driving but it's the only way they can get to meetings. Living out 'in the wilds' there are no buses round the lanes. I have seen that there is not the love that the Org talks about. Older folks are left to look after themselves. And i do know that the JW Org, here in the UK, will not encourage/ allow the use of minibuses to collect congregants for meetings.
  24. JOHN BUTLER
    I thought they wanted people's money online these days ? And in monthly payments through your bank. Or cell phone/mobile phone. And when they sell a hall it's not just the money from the sale, but also not paying out for amenities for that hall. And like i said they won't invest money in transport for people to get to meetings. It is expected that other people will pick up and drop off people. Kinda funny as I've always said to my wife, they always say keep your life simple, BUT, they still expect people to own vehicles, to book into hotels for assemblies / conventions, to put money in the box, to buy new clothes just for meetings and ministry, to keep their own houses and gardens and cars in a tidy and acceptable condition, but oh yes, keep your life simple...
  25. JOHN BUTLER
    About what ?
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Service Confirmation Terms of Use Privacy Policy Guidelines We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.