JOHN BUTLER

Um, reading TTH's comment above concerning the Trinity, it seemed to me to fit well into the idea of the GB calling themselves the 'Faithful and Discreet slave'. Following on Tom's logic then the 'burden of proof' is for the GB to prove they are that 'slave'. Quote "With very few exceptions, all ‘proof’ of the Trinity is based on taking literally certain passages which, if they were spotted anywhere else, would instantly be dismissed as figures of speech. I can picture these yo-yos reading of ‘crocodile tears’ and seizing upon it as proof that the writer is a crocodile." I can picture the GB 'reading of ‘crocodile tears’ and seizing upon it as proof that the writer is a crocodile." ' The default position favors the Ex Witness.... :) :) :)

We are not moving in a forward direction on anything here. We seem to have non inspired GB, leading a non inspired JW Org and Watchtower, using a non inspired translation of the Bible, and teaching non inspired teachings to millions of unsuspecting congregants. So what is so different to any other so called 'christian organisation' ? Well all this non inspired 'stuff' is taken door to door to deliberately mislead and frighten people. A sort of blackmail to make people believe that 'the only means of salvation' is through that non inspired mess mentioned above :) . For what purpose ? To give more power to the non inspired GB and bring in more money to the non inspired two fold organisation (Wt / JW Org) To think, I was once blinded by all of that !

@BillyTheKid46 Quote " The irony, you attack the GB when your heart in no better than the soulless being you present, not just here but elsewhere. " The difference being that i don't pretend to know the truth, and i don't want power over others. I don't make rules for others to follow. I do not mislead anyone as I do not try to 'take the lead' in any way. I do not pretend that i am the 'Faithful and discreet slave' of God through Christ. And I'm not frightened to admit that i have no love or trust in anyone. But then i don't hide pedophiles either, and I don't tell people how tight or loose their clothes should be. I don't make up rules about who can speak to who. I don't write magazines that tell deliberate lies about what God requires of us. I don't make up rules about the use of blood and then change those rules at a later date. I am only responsible for me. Your GB has made itself responsible for millions of people, but they have no proof that the responsibility is guided by God or Christ. Your GB has no love of people, only love of power over people. Your GB does not care about the victims of Child Sexual Abuse, they only care about 'their' money being spent in compensation. Your GB is prepared to sacrifice innocent lives to cover up the wickedness of the W/t and the JW Org. Your GB 'cleans the outside of the dish or bowl, but leaves the inside full of disgusting things'. And you Billy just worship your GB so much that you are completely blind to it all.

Scholarly JWs have admitted that it's a common problem to include bias. But this means that the NWT was NOT guided by God, Jesus Christ, or Holy Spirit. And basically proves the whole embodiment of JW / Wt orgs are not guided by any of them. So where is there any reason for trusting the GB, the Watchtower, the JW Org, the Writing department or any JW at all ? It all falls apart if their own Bible is not dependable. How can anyone give a BIBLE STUDY using FALSE information ?

Yes Billy I'm married to one, but I don't trust her and she knows that. The children know that I don't trust them either. i once wrote on my FB page :- Which is worse : Love based on lies, or, Hate based on truth. You see Billy i am not you. I do not think like you. I do not act like you. I do not have the feelings / emotions like you. When you and others, begin to see other people, as OTHER people, not as people like you, then you and others may just start to begin to understand that not all of us live by the same rules. You are trying to tell me I trust my wife because I'm married to her. Wrong. The trust died many years ago. I have no love for anyone, no trust in anyone. It does not mean that I hate people, it simply means I have no feelings for them. I demand nothing, I expect nothing, therefore i no longer get disappointed by anyone.

It seems to be like I've said before. The way some folks stay in the JW Org is 'by not actually being part of the JW Org'. Not using the NWT, not believing all the GB says, not obeying all the GB / W/t / JW Org rules. So um why actually stay in ? ah yes, well I've given the reasons for that already. Too much to lose. Now if all of those congregants earthwide that didn't, use the NWT, believe all the GB say, obey all the GB rules, were to leave the JW Org, I'm quite sure the 8.5million would decrease rapidly. When the GB use the expression "brazen conduct" I think they are referring to themselves. But now JTR Jr is saying that 'brazen conduct' is not from the original scriptures. Is any of the NWT from the original scriptures ? And what does God and Jesus Christ think of people that deliberately alter or add to the scriptures ? This seems to show that the NWT was not written / translated with direction by God's Holy Spirit.

@JW Insider Quote "But there is another thing about this particular verse in Revelation 17:14. It's not translated correctly in the NWT." I can't remember the scripture that says something about 'Anyone that adds to or subtracts from the scriptures, will suffer for it '. I know that is not exactly what it says but ....... Now, are you saying that the GB / Writing dept' deliberately mis-translate scripture, even adding in words, to suit their own purposes ? Because that is what it looks like to me. ( Reminds me of 'torture stake' which I believe is not a true translation. ) Is that why the GB say not to get educated. Educated people can use Greek and Hebrew to English translations, and not just stick to the one NWT Bible. It gets worse. Even the JW Bible cannot be trusted to tell the truth. Your words JWI "It's not translated correctly in the NWT."

Quote BTK " Since you think everyone at the Org is a potential pedophile..." I think everyone on this Earth has the potential to be a pedophile or a murderer, or a thief and much more. I think the Elders that hide the pedophiles are just as guilty as the pedophiles themselves. I think the GB / directors / bosses / Lawyers of W/t & JW Org are just as guilty for creating the mechanisms for hiding pedophiles in the W/t and JW Org. I think that anyone inside or outside the W/t & JW Org that hides pedophiles or hides information about pedophiles in the W/t & JW Org, are just as guilty of the Child Sexual Abuse in those organisations. And I've said on this blog many times I TRUST NO HUMAN. I would put more trust in animals. Quote BTK "Yet, its funny how some within agree with opposers." Billy I'm sure you know that a lot of people are only in those crap organisations (W/t & JW Org) because they have too much to lose, materially, emotionally, mentally. They have families, 'friends', businesses, status, position, pride, and much more, and it would all come tumbling down if they had the guts to leave the Org / W/t. Do you really think there are 8.5 million servants of JW Org ? Dream on Billy. There may be 8.5 million in that 'club' physically but they are not all in it spiritually. If you go on 'other' websites you will know that. Many witnesses openly admit that they are physically in / mentally-spiritually out. Well I suppose it's a good way to stay up to date with the latest lies from the GB. But you and James seem so violent in your minds and your words... I do not have to kill anyone to protect my grandchildren. :) I do have some mental balance, though I don't know why. A person does not have to go to war to see violence and perversion and emotional destruction. Many people including myself have seen and felt enough of it. That's why i don't want to see it happen to innocent children. But the GB / W/t / JW Org / Elders, do not care enough yet. And I do wonder by your comments BTK, if you are a p................................

Stop being so American James, not everyone on this planet Earth wants 'to go to war'. It's about being as cautious as serpents I thought :) Not being a rogue elephant.

I don't know, but I'd need more info on him like his previous address I think. His name is quite basic so could be many men with the same name. I don't know his age either other than my wife says he's old and looks around 60.

Ah so you were bored but not now :) And I agree with you about numbering verses. I'm probably as guilty as anyone for taking a vese out of context. When we look at Paul's writings as the letters to congregations that they were, the we get a much better meaning from them. I would have loved to have met him. A man that wasn't frightened to speak his mind. Not all mamby pamby like the JW Org pretends to be. I've always found that the Org here in UK tries to act toooo posh. There was an old Elder in the Honiton congregation and he was an ex farmer. Henry was his name. He would pronounce Honiton as Onitun, and Exeter as Hexeter. Poor man was always being told off by other Elders. But it was him, his character, the man he really was. But it was easy to see the other Elders didn't like it. It was so easy to see, and so funny, that congregants would put on a posher voice in the KH. Then once outside or away from the hall, even on the ministry, then would be back to their 'real self'. In my opinion God does not want posh. Jesus did not chose posh people for his disciples / apostles.

That is horrendous, funny but horrendous. Are you totally bored too ? I'll get back to listing on Ebay at least that is productive / proactive and positive.

@Srecko Sostar Sometimes you make me laugh loudly. I must not this morning as my wife is still in bed (at 10am) . Have a good day my friend.

@Anna (Children with adoptive parents always want to know, or want to search, for their real parents once they come of age). Oh yes and what problems that has caused my wife and I. I'm stepfather to 4 girls. :(

Didn't JW turn to a child, in one of his films and say ' You're what this war is all about ' And something like ' Get off ya horse n drink ya milk' In my second marriage we had a son and I almost named him Wayne, as my name being John, John (and) Wayne. But i thought it was too much Hero worship which we are told is a sin. :)

He might be, he might not be. But I'm just grandad that is left on the sidelines and I suppose it looks as if I'm bitter about it. So do I just mind my own business, or is it my business ?

OK, I know some people will not like this and they will call it gossip but my wife and I are worried about it so it needs to aired out. We have one daughter that is still a JW. i will call her H. She is married to a non JW. She has 4 children. This daughter does not seem to recognise any dangers at all about her children. She invites anyone to her house without really knowing who they are or anything about their past. 3 of the children are girls and they attend ballet and tap dance lessons. They are only young, the oldest being around 8 years old. Today they were in a performance /show in Exeter, a biggish show that their teacher was putting on for all parents, grandparents, etc. I wasn't allowed to go of course as I'm a 'naughty boy' that left the Org. My wife went to the show and was surprised to find two 'brothers' there. One of the 'brothers' is a young single Elder and the other 'brother' is an old man that has recently been reinstated and moved into Honiton congregation. This older man frequently visits H and her daughters at their home and the girls call him Uncle Phil. He seems very 'friendly' toward the girls. H does not know where this 'brother' is from but he is now part of the Honiton Congregation which H and her children attend, here in Devon. It seems strange to me that this man has just arrived at Honiton Congregation and just been reinstated. My wife says he has a London accent. If I were still a JW I would ask him bluntly why he was disfellowshipped and where he is from, but of course I cannot do that now. I have his full name, so is there any way i can run a check on him ? Should i contact an Elder at Honiton Congregation and tell them of the concern my wife and I have ? If this 'brother' had been involved in a child abuse accusation would they have told H about it so that she could be on her guard ? Some on here may think I'm just trying to cause trouble, but my wife came home this evening and is looking very worried. It seems that H had invited both 'brothers' to the meal afterward and my wife felt unhappy about the whole situation. TTH will probably bring out the rule book again and say 'it never happens', but child abuse does happen and needs to be looked for all the time. Our daughter H seems to have no idea about the situations that have taken place, and in honesty she doesn't want to know. So how can my wife warn her ?

Actually BtK it's you that don't get it. Your GB are trying to shift the blame onto the congregants by saying it was the congregants that didn't understand it right. Today, the faithful and discreet slave sometimes helps us to understand a teaching in the Bible in a way that is different from what we thought before. We should be happy about these changes. And as @Srecko Sostar said it wasn't WE that thought it in a wrong way, it was your GB. Wake up Billy.

@Srecko Sostar That is a fantastic comment. Thank you for the thought you have put into that. Billy the Kid obviously feels the lack of love for him, and so has to downvote you. We all need love and maybe God needs love from humans as you say. It does seem strange that God demanded love from the Nation of Israel. I have said previously that the Jews were in a much different situation to us. The Jews were born into the Law and had to serve God, whereas we can chose to serve God or not.

@JW Insider July 2015 Watchtower simplified edition. Para 16. Sometime after the attack of Gog begins, all the remaining anointed ones on earth will be taken to heaven. Then Revelation 17:14 tells us about the reaction in heaven to Gog’s attack. The enemies of God’s people “will battle with the Lamb, but because he is Lord of lords and King of kings, the Lamb will conquer them. Also, those with him who are called and chosen and faithful will do so.” Thus, Jesus, together with his 144,000 anointed kings in heaven, will rescue God’s people here on earth. 17 That rescue will result in the battle of Armageddon, which will bring glory to Jehovah’s holy name.................... So this W/t says all the 144,000 will be in heaven before Armageddon starts. But are you saying that the Judgement of the earthly class is prior to this happening ? I also remember a scripture at Matthew 24 v 22 In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short. How does this fit into the equation ?

@JW Insider Quote "So, more recently, the Watchtower stopped discounting the idea about the "rapture." " Is this then something else the GB / Writing dept / W/t have changed their minds about. In fact changed meaning of scripture ? In honesty how many congregants have a good understanding of all this ? I always thought that all of the Anointed would be in heaven at Armageddon. I don't even remember being taught anything different. I was taught that as each one of the Anointed died they went immediately to heaven... Then the living ones would be gathered up / taken up before the Judgement started. I'm more confused than ever now :( Not that i have any faith in Watchtower / GB teachings anyway, but I like to consider all things.

@BillyTheKid46 Quote "12 The Governing Body is neither inspired nor infallible. Therefore, it can err in doctrinal matters or in organizational direction.... " I added the phrase 'by holy spirit' actually. What else does God use to inspire people or anoint people or for God to work through people, via Jesus Christ ? Matthew 3 v 16 After being baptized, Jesus immediately came up from the water; and look! the heavens were opened up, and he saw God’s spirit descending like a dove and coming upon him.17 Look! Also, a voice from the heavens said: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.” Acts 2 v 3&4. And tongues as if of fire became visible to them and were distributed, and one came to rest on each one of them,4 and they all became filled with holy spirit and started to speak in different languages, just as the spirit enabled them to speak. Now this becomes even more interesting if we look at the word ERR which the GB or Writing Dept used. Did the GB deliberately use this word err ? Do they understand the implication of it ? err /əː/ verb FORMAL be mistaken or incorrect; make a mistake. "the judge had erred in ruling that the evidence was inadmissible" synonyms: make a mistake, be wrong, be in error, be mistaken, mistake, make a blunder, blunder, be incorrect, be inaccurate, misjudge, miscalculate, get things/something/it wrong, bark up the wrong tree, get the wrong end of the stick, be wide of the mark; More fail to adhere to the proper or accepted standards; do wrong. "he has erred and strayed as many of us have" synonyms: misbehave, do wrong, go wrong, behave badly, misconduct oneself, be bad, be naughty, get up to mischief, get up to no good, act up, act badly, give someone trouble, cause someone trouble; The second meaning seems more likely. Therefore, the GB can err in doctrinal matters or in organizational direction.... " It can, do wrong, go wrong, behave badly, misconduct oneself, get up to mischief, and, give some trouble. Yep that sounds right. The GB, for once, admitting they do wrong.

Are yes but the sinners Christ chose were INSPIRED OF HOLY SPIRIT and Christ FULLY OPENED UP THE SCRIPTURES TO THEM. You cannot say that about your GB as they say they are not inspired of holy spirit and they admit making 'mistakes'.

@JW Insider Won't the Anointed already be in heaven when the judgement happens ? The separating of sheep from goats (earthly class) will be after the Anointed are taken up surely ? Those truly Anointed have surely already been chosen (seperated in a way from the earthly class), although it obviously depends on their true service to God through Christ for all of their earthly life. To judge the Anointed again would seem strange to me. In my opinion it is only those of the Anointed that can sin against the spirit. Because they are Spirit Anointed and brothers of Christ. But then in my opinion the Greek scriptures were written by and only for those of the true Anointed. The idea of the 'early church' that the Bible was only for those 'in charge' seems basically right to me, but unfortunately they misused that power. Imagine just for one moment, a truly Anointed group of 'Spiritual Jews' here on earth, having direct spiritual contact with Jesus Christ, receiving perfect spiritual information (food at the proper time), which they then pass on in an honest and righteous way, to those of the earthly class. Just imagine those of the earthly class, receiving that perfect information and going into the ministry with God's blessing through Jesus Christ, to pass on that true God given information to deserving ones in the world............... That is where I'm coming from. That is how I think it should be.

Billy there is no talking with you. You are completely blinded by your worship of those 8 MEN. It matters not if they say revise, change, alter, new light, or anything else, they still deliberately tell lies. They use words to deceive people Billy. AND they change meanings of scripture and misuse scripture too. Sorry you are not mature enough spiritually or mentally to face those facts. It's your loss.