César Chávez

CC is too stupid to be confused.

Thanks dear! I am off to bed. Tomorrow I have a full day. It is almost 12 PM here in Albania.

AlanF..... you have never said anything I could think about...... not once.  Insider at least gives one something to consider..... or to be aware of (that is a compliment).
Your replies are like the excrement they are still looking for in the wilderness of Sinai. According to you there should be overwhelminging evidence of poop in Sinai  .......not like the overwhelming LACK  of evidence in finding the interim stages in the fossil record...... no bones..... bones are harder than poop and yet ie. there are no bones to prove how the wing
developed etc. 

🤣 Delta-T now. Oh please. 

Don't insult the guy! CC considers himself a veritable polymath.
So, getting back to your easy-peasy-lemon-squeezy method for obtaining the year of Cyrus' death without stars and calendars, are you going to enlighten us at all about what that method is? I have my Insight book handy.
...other than the vast wealth of cuneiform astronomical texts direct from the period, thus a reliance on Ptolemy is unnecessary (which has been the case for well over 100 years).
Irrelevant. Assurbanipal was an Assyrian who lived before the neo-Babylonian period. 
Irrelevant.
Do you have an easy-peasy-lemon-squeezy method for obtaining the year of Babylon's conquest without the use of stars and calendars? My fingers are poised to work those Insight book pages! 😉

It is true!  When he cannot answer he focusses on mistakes in language!

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/churches-fears-for-conversion-bill-are-unfounded-20201215-p56no3.html
I think this article puts a bit of balance on things. 
 
The Victorian government’s bill to ban LGBTQ+ conversion practices has raised confusion and disquiet in some religious communities about potential threats to their religious freedoms.
These fears are quickly assuaged by a plain reading of the bill and the statement of compatibility with the Charter of Human Rights.
The Victorian bill carefully weighs the protection of religious freedom against the protection of the rights of LGBTQ+ people and is the product of significant consultation. It does not ban prayer, preaching or pastoral support about gender and sexuality in general. But it does prevent these spiritual practices being misused in attempts to change or suppress a person’s sexuality or gender identity and thereby causing them harm. It has been found to be consistent with Victorian human rights law and does not constitute an overreach.
Placing limits on religious practices, as proposed in this bill, is not new. Both Australian law and international human rights law provide guidance on when it is appropriate to place limitations on religious practices.
There are numerous examples where we do this already in Australian law. Jehovah’s Witnesses hold religious objections to blood transfusions, but Australian law overrides the practice of that belief in circumstances where a blood transfusion is necessary to save the life of a child. Several religious communities have traditions of female genital cutting. Yet Australian law overrides that religious practice, making it both illegal to perform in Australia or to remove someone overseas for the practice. And more recently, several Australian jurisdictions have followed the recommendations of the child abuse royal commission to limit the seal of confession in order to protect children from sexual abuse.
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So. we know from scripture that the Superior Authorities are placed or are allowed to be in their position by Almighty God. 
And we can see some good here that this government is trying to stop female genital cutting and to protect children from sexual abuse. 
The position concerning blood transfusions is a difficult one. A secular government has to make secular decisions completely separate from religious bias. 
So at this moment in time it does not look as if they are trying to wipe out Christianity, as some people pretend they are.  
 

Part 2.  In this part we will examine nature and meaning of terminology used in WT publications. Here we have main thing, head of problem/answer to understand governing model in WTJWorg. Expression in WT magazine said: the superior appointment of the “faithful and discreet slave. Did you ever before noticed such terminology? FDS aka GB got superior appointment. They have, they are holders of inviolable status. Based on 1919 premise how Jesus and God declared, in heaven, in invisible manner, that Rutherford and people gathered in Bible Students movement, incorporated in WTS are chosen one, are appointed. 
What is meaning of the words appointment/appointed?  
- to assign officially, as for a position, responsibility, etc to establish by agreement or decree; to nominate (a person)
- assigned, appointed, elected, commissioned, selected, elected, installed, delegated, nominated
Well, procedure and process about it is quit interesting. GB explained "the 1919 process" in manner how Jesus came invisible to Earth and found Russell (of the deceased), Rutherford and Bible Students as only worth to be appointed by Him, because the WTS organization was the only one to teach the truth. Of course, this "Jesus' declaration" is without any evidence and proof. In sense, how only Rutherford and few other in WTS were in position "to hear Jesus' voice" about this.
Today, we only have Bible Students history, and with our examination of their teachings in those days, we are also able to establish some facts about their past and present claims and their "position before Jesus and God". But also have some interesting explanatory sentences, here and there, about issue. And with this little details we are able to see how questionable are such claims made by individuals and collective in WTJWorg. For example this below:  
And although Jesus—“the head of every man”—is in heaven, there are still on earth “the remaining ones” of his anointed brothers, who have the hope of ruling with him in the heavens. (Revelation 12:17; 20:6) These make up the composite “faithful and discreet slave.” Christians show their submission to Jesus, and therefore to Jesus’ head, Jehovah, by accepting the oversight of that “slave.” (Matthew 24:45-47; 25:40) -https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1998643
I put in bold this two things in their paragraph. Let me paraphrase :
Because they are people who have the hope of ruling with him in the heavens it is obvious how  These make up the composite “faithful and discreet slave.  
Another thing is important question; If by any chance Jesus chose someone in 1919, is that Jesus' appointment inherited, transitions from one member to a new one? Or would it be logical for each new person to be appointed in new appointment process? And that to be made by Jesus, again, and not from some earthly member of the earthly organization?
In WTJWorg process how to put them (candidate for elder, MS, etc) in some position are same, in fact with similar process in all democratic societies. And that is; appointed / elected / selected ....through process of elections and voting. Those process can be open voting and closed voting. WTJWorg Administration, elders and congregational members participate in such system.
 

Part 1.  In this part we will meet few quotes in article from one WT magazine which describes administrative functions in WTJWorg past. Many of them stayed till today. 
Please be free to comment. 
 
Following Faithful Shepherds with Life in View - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1967723
This means we must prove our faith by our course of action, by the things we do. It means that righteous requirements of the King Jesus Christ must be met.......Therefore, in submitting to Jehovah’s visible theocratic organization, we must be in full and complete agreement with every feature of its apostolic procedure and requirements.
UNITY MAINTAINED BY SUBMISSION
...In this way today too the governing body of the Christian congregation serves the entire organization. Solutions to problems arising in one locality are widely circulated so that the unity and oneness of the entire organization might be maintained...In submitting yourself to Jehovah’s visible organization as administered by such servants, you are still not required or expected to follow men..... It is the faith of these men that is to be imitated and their course of conduct that is to be observed....These men too, though occupying responsible positions of oversight themselves, recognize and submit to the superior appointment of the “faithful and discreet slave.”....The account says: “In those days there was no king in Israel.” (Judg. 21:25) So it was in the earlier days of the modern theocratic organization. Jehovah’s administration of righteousness took a pronounced forward step with the return of the Christian congregation to apostolic teachings. But before the King, Jesus Christ, was enthroned in 1914 C.E. the organization was loosely administered. Each “ecclesia” or congregation was self-governed by elected “elders” and “deacons.” But in 1914 Jehovah enthroned his King Jesus Christ, and from 1919 onward the time became due for Jeremiah’s prophecy to be fulfilled: “‘And I myself shall collect together the remnant of my sheep out of all the lands to which I had dispersed them, and I will bring them back to their pasture ground, and they will certainly be fruitful and become many. And I will raise up over them shepherds who will actually shepherd them; and they will be afraid no more, neither will they be struck with any terror, and none will be missing,’ is the utterance of Jehovah.”—Jer. 23:3, 4.
12 This benefit of theocratic administration did not come all at once. In 1932 the “elective elders” were replaced in the congregation by an appointed “service director,” who was assisted by a group of mature members of the congregation democratically elected to their positions. But not until 1938 did the final change to strictly theocratic order take place. In that year, through the columns of The Watchtower, it was revealed from the Scriptures that the power of appointment of servants in congregations rightfully rests with the governing body of the “faithful and discreet slave” as directed by Jesus Christ from Jehovah’s temple.* This important step in the restoration of theocratic order assured Jehovah’s “sheep” that they would not again be separated into independent “flocks” by unscrupulous “shepherds.” The shepherds that Jehovah promised through Jeremiah would be those fully in agreement with Jesus’ words that “they will become one flock, one shepherd.”—John 10:16.
14 In 1942 the change came. In the throes of World War II, with the change in administrations of the second and third presidents of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society,...The years since 1942 have told their tale regarding the exploits of the anointed Elisha class, accompanied by an ever-increasing number of the “great crowd.”—Rev. 7:9-17.
On February 1, 1943, the Watchtower Bible School of Gilead was set up for training missionaries and special representatives of the Watch Tower Society to serve in all parts of the earth. That same year, 1943, a new training program, the Theocratic Ministry School, began in the congregations of Jehovah’s witnesses. At first only male students were enrolled in these schools, but in 1958 provision was made for the women of the congregations to enroll and participate.
20 Such a theocratic view of matters will enable you always to keep pace with the organization, neither running ahead nor lagging dangerously behind. You will encounter trying circumstances. Do not be overcome by them. Wait on Jehovah and put your hope in him. (Ps. 37:34; 27:14) It might even be that reproof will be necessary on occasion. Do not become offended. If you do, you are undoubtedly taking yourself too seriously, failing to see the point of the reproof. Nor should you persuade yourself that you are of no use to the organization and quit simply because some mistake may be drawn to your attention. Rather, “my son, do not belittle the discipline from Jehovah, neither give out when you are corrected by him; for whom Jehovah loves he disciplines; in fact, he scourges every one whom he receives as a son.”—Heb. 12:5, 6.
21 On the other hand, it may be that your advancement will be rapid. Guard against an attitude of super-faithfulness. It might ensnare you. Do not feel that others in the congregation are slow and backward. You might even become impatient with the organization. Consider instead the example of Moses, who pleaded with Jehovah to spare his typical theocratic nation when some faithless ones in the organization sinned against Jehovah and brought his anger down upon the entire congregation. (Ex. 32:1-14) Neither should you wait constantly to be directed as to the theocratic activity assigned. Eagerly assume individual responsibility and seek ways of advancing the Kingdom interests in harmony with the program currently outlined by the “faithful and discreet slave.”
22. Why, then, should we stick loyally to Jehovah’s visible organization?
22 The Bible sets forth every inducement and encouragement to place the theocratic organization ahead of oneself, to accept it in all its features and stick to it loyally. The theocratic pace of activity is still increasing. What Jehovah will yet require of his faithful servants on earth before Armageddon he will reveal in due time. Staying close to his visible theocratic organization is the only way to find out. Having identified that organization and God’s righteous requirements expressed through his channel, never let it go. Follow Jehovah’s faithful shepherds so that, “just as sin ruled as king with death, likewise also undeserved kindness might rule as king through righteousness with everlasting life in view through Jesus Christ our Lord.”—Rom. 5:21.

Alan F
Agreed but let us not confuse the exile/deportation of the few with the EXILE of the greater number in order to be historically correct.
No it is not and i checked a number of reference works which state similarly. But speaking of dictionarys, the Shorter Oxford English Dictionary defines 'exilic'-"to that of the Jews in Babylon'.
So if the population was so small or minimal in number why did Neb bother? And was not king Zedekiah present in the city at that time?
Only ONE Exile in the OT and recognized by historian for that it is why it is described as catastrohe  and Jeremiah wrote the book of Lamentations as a consequence thereof.
scholar JW
scholar JW

What I want to know is why the other elders are not being charged with anything?

https://www.nwherald.com/2020/11/24/crystal-lake-man-church-elder-charged-with-failing-to-report-sexual-abuse-of-child/aqqnlcw/
A Jehovah's Witness church elder is accused of failing to notify police about a known instance of sexual abuse against a minor in his congregation.
Michael M. Penkava, 71, of Crystal Lake, was charged Nov. 18 with violating reporting provisions. The offense is a misdemeanor typically punishable by less than one year in jail.

Maybe it should be at least five years in jail if proven true. I wonder how long the child has been suffering. 
 

I don't see @TrueTomHarley commenting on this one. I presume this Elder was breaking the 'Superior Authorities' Law as well as breaking God's 'laws' and Christ's instructions. 
 

Why did the parents not report it?  Are they dead?  Usually the parents (direct family members to the girl) are asked to report it - not an uncle.   

So can you provide a quote of them saying the world is going to be destroyed in 1975? If an ExJW risk his own channel to speak this truth, why not give a quote?
As of recent, this ExJW is currently against other ExJWs the day he posted the video of whom they forced Youtube to shut him down.

Mr Chavez - she is too worked up to understand much. 
All her efforts are much ado about nothing  and a  'manufacturing of outrage'.  I joined UN press to get news too!  There was no other source of news available about the decisions of the UN at its meetings but the UN news department itself - at the time. I later left them when I could get more material online. I joined as a member of a NGO (non-government organization) and did not pay any fee to join.  OXFAM and many charity organizations are NGOs!
The UN started with only 50 members in 1945 and was an  importent international organization because at the time it was viewed as a reliable organization even though we knew that in future it would be turn against religion, and take over from the 7-headed beast.  For that reason I am still watching  UN events.
The UN itself is a non-government organization - intergovernmental    Here is the definition of it its public information department: 
 "The United Nations (U.N.) Department of Public Information (DPI) defines the NGO as “a not-for profit, voluntary citizen’s group that is organized on a local, national or international level to address issues in support of the public good. Task-oriented and made up of people with a common interest, NGOs perform a variety of services and humanitarian functions, bring citizen’s concerns to Governments, monitor policy and program implementation, and encourage participation of civil society stakeholders at the community level.”
Since 1992 the UN has been working on Agenda 2021. After this (especially after 9-11)  its international actions in the last 20 years has started to take on a sinister character.  Much internal corruption, that is growing exponentially, and collaboration with many corrupt private NGOs all over the world as well as super capitalists has turned the global world organization with 192 members out of 195 nations into a place where super-capitalists have control over  technology, banking, media, legal, and human rights organizations. ... and its power is growing as super-global corporations which provide food, water and energy is joining its ranks. I.e. Monsantos-Bayer. Look at the list of attendees at DAVOS and you will have a good idea of the new and old super corporations which are joining the ranks.
I have complained many times on this forum that Arab nations and China (who have no clue of human rights) are now in control of human rights. 
RUSSIA AND CHINA veto many beneficial actions..... controlling things to go their way on the security council.
For example, not only does Bill Gates own most shares in all the corporations that will manufacture the upcoming  vaccinations , he also owns the patents for the technology that will be used in them.
He (and many billionaires) do not pay taxes because they all have charity organizations which their money is given to. These charities give mega donations to NGOs or corporations that promote their financial interests (tax free).  NGOs additionally get billions in "grant money" from governments and they use it for purposes they deem fit. ... which further line the pockets of those billionaires, NGOs and those involved with the UN. I.e vaccination "testing programs in Kongo and India.
These are now dictating health policy to the WHO.  The world AIDs fund has also  been a slush fund for the super rich. Gates himself is the biggest money contributor to the WHO.  UN has been bought and paid for.  This is why I am warning that UN now has the teeth to act.... something it did not have before. BUt a corrupt organization with super-capitalist technocracy running things does not augur well for the future. IT WILL BRING THE WORST TRIBULATION THE WORLD HAS EVER SEEN. I call it a technological corperatocricy or science dictatorship.
Soros set up a NGO in Ukraine in order to stop corruption........ and it became the biggest corruptor of the society and the legal sector. He is also funding all DA offices in USA and many front organizations. His Open Society charity is behind many sinister plots....... THAT IS HOW HE MAKES HIS MONEY.  READ up how he almost broke the UK economy and how he is not welcome in many countries any longer and is facing criminal charges in 6 countries....  But of course the naive people here will look it up on the super-capitalist owned media and call it conspiracy lies.   Soros is funding corrupt  prosecutors who do not follow legal procedures but make up their own rules as they go along...... in Ukraine the people who were trying to prosecute  Hunter Biden for corruption was FIRED. ........ Read up about the Color revolutions - big money involved in the overthrow of governments and it seems USA may be following the same pattern.
The world is totally corrupt and the super-rich and UN & collaborating NGOs is behind it.  Most local NGOs for " sustainable development " in the USA is changing the LOCAL laws without the people's consent. They are changing the laws in line with agenda 2030.  NGOs for sustainable development are often funded by the  Council on Foreign Relations (which was given power by the first president Busch after the first UN Agenda 2021 was signed by more than 170 nations). ...... which by the way is legally binding..... eventhough the agenda itself does not say so. 
I can go on about this non-government organization - which started in idealism - has been totally corrupted and taken over.  It used to be an organization without teeth but has enough teeth now to lock down the entire planet - think on that.
TO SUM UP:  the UN had not much power a few  decades ago...... but in last 15 years is exponentially growing its beastly teeth ..... together with those who are giving it money and support.  It will soon be able to gobble those up who dare to stand up against its all encompassing policies.

How wonderfully loving and merciful those Elders were if this is true ????????? 
SALT LAKE CITY — The Utah Supreme Court heard arguments Monday in a case alleging male leaders of a Jehovah’s Witnesses congregation in Roy forced a 15-year-old girl to listen to a recording of a man raping her in 2008.
https://www.deseret.com/utah/2020/11/9/21557200/utah-supreme-court-case-woman-says-church-made-her-listen-to-audio-of-her-rape-jehovahs-witnesses
“The allegation here is a mental and emotional equivalent of waterboarding,” Justice Deno Himonas said. “I’ve been a judge for a long time and a lawyer for a long time. I’ve never seen, in court, anything like this that’s alleged.”
The woman sued the four elders, the Roy church and the religion’s national organization, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, in Oden’s 2nd District Court in 2016. She alleges she cried, shook visibly and pleaded for them to stop as they played the recording intermittently over the course of at least four hours in 2008. Their goal was to extract a confession that she had voluntarily engaged in sex outside of marriage, her attorneys contend.
She alleges she was 14 years old when the man, a fellow Jehovah’s Witness, 18, bullied her increasingly and began sexually assaulting her in December 2007. She alleges he raped her several times and provided her congregation’s leaders a recording of one instance.
And they didn't immediately report him to the Police for rape or underage sex ????? 
This religion which is built on God's word and Christ's instructions, with high moral standards ??????? 
 
 

Why is it so hard, for some of the JWs on here to simply admit that yes, 1975 was a debacle, and a  mistake made by  imperfect people, eager to see the new world. There is nothing wrong with that kind of eagerness. Rather than denying and defending that 1975 was not a debacle, why not talk about what this teaches us, and how it can help us on a personal level to avoid getting sweap up by that kind of reasoning in the future? If the conventions suddenly started mentioning 1930 as a possible date for Armageddon, because of some calculations pertaining to the generation, for example (or any other calculations for thay matter) how would we react? Emma mentioned we would just wait and see. Well yes, that is definitely an answer, and can be the answer for absolutely anything  that we are not sure about. But maybe it should go deeper than that. Maybe we should look at ourselves, and refresh the reasons why we are in the truth in the first place. Like those who are now ex-JWs should have done prior to 1975...

That’s one more than I am. Who’s the 2nd?

@Srecko Sostar That is fabulous.  Very well explained. 
I think that JWs forget the teachings of the 60's.  Remember the teachings ;
Each Creative Day = 7000 years. 6 Creative Days = 42000 years.
We were living in the last day and it would consist of 6000 years + 1000 years of Christ's rule
That would equal 49,000 years, then it would be handed back to God and be a Millenium of some sort. 
So that teaching was saying that at the end of the 6,000 years, Christ's rule would begin.
That year was 1975. 

But wasn't there a Watchtower magazine in 1967 saying that the world was in the 'final part of the final day' or something like that. I saw a picture of that mag on here not long back. 
And wasn't there a slogan saying 'Stay alive 'till 75'.  
And I do know for sure that JWs sold their houses and went into full time ministry, and they must have had some reason for doing that. 
Oh it would be lovely to have coppies of all old Watchtowers dating back to the 1950's.  
But some JWs are like the Egyptians, that used to wipe out all traces of failure and mistakes. Some JWs just cannot face true facts. 

The GB of CCJW

"Self-professed", what an ignorant thing to say.  Do God's anointed servants need the approval of men before they profess that they are anointed?   Gal 1:10   I suppose in the organization, that is how it is.  I know of anointed ones who were discouraged by the elder body to partake of the emblems.  I know of one who quit partaking because of elder pressure against them.  (Rev 13:5-7)  I really don't care what anyone wants to believe about myself. It matters most, what Jesus Christ sees as my servitude toward him and God.   I do care that JWs put the Truth of Christ, before the counterfeit "truth" of a wicked slave/Harlot, and the organization it directs.  (Matt 24:48-51; Rev 13:11-17; 16:13-16)

So by your reasoning, it's like if Armageddon came on December 1st 1975. Now imagine we can see into the future like Jehovah can:  A Witness would have knocked on your door Saturday morning December 2nd and planted a seed which would have grown and seen you get baptised a few months later. Well oops.....sorry Derek, obviously too late! By that time you will have been pushing up daisies for several months already.
Does that kind of reasoning make sense to you?