Kick_Faceinator

Thank you very much for your time and patience and understanding. It is something JWs appear to lack here.
I didn't answer 'Rambo'  because he is someone else, an AKA, and just looking for trouble.  I do not believe he/she is a JW.
Quoting you here :
This teaching of only IBSA's or the JW's surviving through the G.T.  (red highlight mine)
The IBSA was an Association, whereas the JW's is an Organisation.
I do not believe that the IBSA was a 'closed shop'. And, as you pointed out,  there wasn't even 1 million members yet.
I do believe that Rutherford was talking about those humans that were physically living at that time, never dying. 
So, my feeling is that Rutherford (when he took over from Russell) may have felt that many people that were not associated with the IBSA, would be judged as 'worthy' of 'saving' through Armageddon. 
But then Rutherford 'branched off' and formed an Organisation, Jehovah's Witnesses. 
Now back in the 1960's when i first started studying with JW's, I was told that the 'Org' was the 'new Ark'.  I was taught that anyone in the Org/Ark was 'safe', but all those outside the Org/Ark would die. Obviously the idea being based on Noah and his family being counted as righteous and therefore keptsafe in that Ark.
So I think that somewhere between the IBSA / Rutherford, and the 1960's, the line of thought changed from 'Millions' being saved, to, 'only JWs being saved'.  
However, I think there is a swing back to the idea, that many humans outside the JW Org, will be counted as worthy of 'saving'.  
I really thought that @JW Insider  would have given me a sensible answer as he has vast knowledge of JW doctrine / teachings. However it seems, Et tu brute, JWI. 
Thank you once again ABLJ. 

She can't answer so she is twisting....   you played false against holy spirit a long time ago.  That is why you tend not to believe Jesus words when he stated, "everyone who is living and exercises faith in me Will Never Die At All." (John 11:25-26)
Making the statement Millions Now Living will Never Die doesn't make anyone a liar....  it's how you brought up the question that makes one a liar.   “Did God really say that you must not eat from every tree of the garden?”

The foot note to the the scripture
@John 11:26
will never die at all: When Jesus spoke about not dying, or of living forever, he clearly did not mean that his listeners back then would never experience death. Jesus was making the point that faith in him could lead to everlasting life. That conclusion is supported by what Jesus said earlier, as recorded in John chapter 6, where he connects exercising faith with gaining everlasting life.—Joh 6:39-44, 54.

 
All due respect, BroRando
Why would you use this approach with PwfT?
"why don't you go for it and call him a liar too??   You know what Jesus says about Hypocrisy? "
John 11:26 isn't even being taken literally by jw.org. Please! Check out the above footnote. Look it up yourself. "When Jesus spoke about not dying, or of living forever, he clearly did not mean that his listeners back then would never experience death. Jesus was making the point that faith in him could lead to everlasting life."
We all here know that within the culture of the Watchtower, the Org has taught that there would be some that are living during the time of the end, or just before the Great Tribulation, ( other times the Org has use the term Armageddon or The great day of Armageddon which I will now in this discussion thread use G.T. for Great Tribulation & The Big "A" for Armageddon ) who would be able to live through it and walk right on into the new system of things.
This has been big thing within this culture of the Watchtower, even way back in the day when Rutherford was the president. Wasn't it he that established that there would be what is called, "a great crowd," spoken of in Revelations, that would have an Earthly hope rather than a Heavenly hope? If so, when did he established this?
The goal or hope of "the great crowd" was to be able to survive going through these times. I'm sure we can agree that within Watchtower theology, we were taught that those who did not survive the time of the G.T. or The Big "A" had no hope for a Resurrection. This surviving Armageddon And/or the Great Tribulation is a big teaching of hope. 
This teaching of only IBSA's or the JW's surviving through the G.T. and/or The Big "A" is, I thought, THE whole REASON for the preaching work or the ministry work. I can even remember it being spoken of as our spiritual act of worship. So what could possibly be a problem with PwfT saying, "So it would be good to know exactly who Rutherford expected to 'continue living," ?
So Patiently Waiting For Truth asking about this seems like a reasonable question to me. But hay. IDK? Is this, was this doctrinal change even a thing? A thing worth acknowledging and/or even discussing. Was there a chang? An add on to those with the Heavenly hope?
I mean if not, and that's the case, why would someone not just say so rather then comparing the words Rutherford to the words of Jesus and then proceeding to accuse Patiently Waiting For Truth of calling Jesus a liar. ( BTW, during the reign of Rutherford there wasn't even 1 million members yet, so might he have been talking about those who were not yet members, and not of the 144.000 Heavenly hope that might be potential future members that had not yet been recruited members of the IBSA yet "that will never die?" )  
I don't understand the hesitation here to have this conversation. 
 

Well, my elder husband left the organization because of its hypocrisy, before I did.  I followed a while afterward. He supported me in this work, until he died.
 But, let me pose a scenario:  A JW “sister” approaches the elders about her abusive husband, and they tell her to go home and pray, to help her continue to tolerate the abuse by her JW husband who could likely be an elder.  That sister, battered and torn down by abuse, who can’t take any more neglect of shepherding by the elders, leaves the organization and her abusive husband.  She is subsequently disfellowshipped for speaking against the abuse that was never dealt with by the elder body.  Or perhaps she filed a report to the police when she was told to keep it to herself, since her husband was an elder in "good standing" with the congregation and good buddies with the elder body.  Does that woman’s husband have the right to divorce her for being labeled an apostate, now that she is disfellowshipped?
What I see in you, is a lust for blood and destruction, and an arrogance similar to your leaders.  The “two witnesses” who prophesy the sins of their people – their anointed brothers and sisters, who tolerate the elders/man of lawlessness robbing them of their position as priests -  preach in sackcloth, in mourning for their people. (2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1-3; 18:4-8) 
But you seem to love and condemn millions to a bloody or a literal fiery death.  
I’m very sorry for you.  This is not the way of Jesus Christ. ( Luke 19:10; Rev 3:1-3, 17-19)

In Hebrew, “thousand” -  Strong’s concordance refers it to “a company of men”.  It’s interesting to read its definition on blueletterbible.
The Greek “thousand” - plural of uncertain affinity
“But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.” 2 Pet 3:8
“For a thousand years in Your sight Are like yesterday when it is past, And like a watch in the night.”  Ps 90:4
The number one thousand (1,000) symbolizes “immensity,” “fullness of quantity” or “multitude.” The number evokes a very long time according to most Bible passages. It is often used in scripture to specify an indefinite quantity. http://www.scripturerevealed.com/bible-studies/the-meaning-of-numbers-the-number-1000/
One thing I think we agree on, is that it is a number that has an end, according to God.  But when reading Rev 21:14-22, which uses terms that appear to be describing a literal building, I realize its full spiritual symbolism, since the Temple is built with people, God and Jesus, not with literal walls, gates and a foundation.  (1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22)  I believe also, the number who “fill” this spiritual temple is also symbolic. 
 

The Timothy scripture applies to people like you, but was written for the Anointed and now applies to those coming out of the Last Days.
 
 
2 Timothy 3:5
having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power; and from these turn away.

Ezra is concerning the Nation of Israel. Are you a Jew and still living under Law ? 
The Timothy scripture applies to your GB and Elders, but was written for the Anointed.
Like I say, you are a fake, but quite a funny one  

The Body of Christ involves God's chosen priesthood. (1 Pet 2:5,9; Rev 5:9,10; Isa 43:21,10) I don't believe that this "body" is everyone. (Rom 2:28,29; Gal 3:29; Rom 9:8) The priests are to serve not only God and Jesus, but the "nations" - the children to come in the Kingdom.  This Body of Christ is "New Jerusalem" coming down out of heaven as the dwelling of God's Spirit which "resides" with mankind - the nations.  (Rev 21:1-4)  This is a family, with children "born" first - the anointed who comprise the Bride of Christ under the New Covenant.  Symbolically, this Bride when united with Jesus, "her" "husband", indicates the fulfillment of the New Covenant. (2 Cor 11:2) More children are "born" in the Kingdom of God. (Isa 66)  I believe, just as Revelation is a symbolic book, the number "144,000" is also symbolic and is used in the scriptures in various ways. With the Wt, everything is physical, tangible, not spiritual - including the number 144,000.  If the Body was formed from a definite number, then wouldn't each one have a different gift from the other?  But this isn't the case, since the gifts are outlined in the scriptures and there are not, as far as we know, a literal 144,00 of them.  🙂
We know that the Temple of God is a "living" temple, not physical. (2 Cor 6:16)   Neither is the number of "stones" who comprise it.  This article below breaks down 144,000 to reveal that it is based on the "measurement" of the temple of God, and that measurement is truth in Jesus Christ.  (Eph 2:20-22; 1 Tim 3:15)
This scripture is for all who accept and believe the truth in Jesus Christ - Both the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” Let anyone who hears, say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come. Let the one who desires take the water of life freely.  Rev 22:17
Who are the 144,000?

Good night all. I'll pop back tomorrow to read further comments. 

MyVideo_1wrwc.mp4 The actual view is much smoother than the choppy capture in the video.

This didn't have to be a JW Club topic, but I'm interested in whether any Witnesses here, especially those over, say 50 years old, play any video games. As an old fogie myself, I have always tried to discourage it in my children, but one of my sons although he is going to be 30, started playing video games again last year. He's an attorney, and doesn't have the time now as he travels between various court houses all day. But through most of Covid courthouse closures he worked everything from a home office on Zoom. My youngest son lives far enough away that I don't know for sure, but he apparently takes no interest in either sports or video games. My daughter doesn't really like any of them, but has trouble pulling her five year old away from the iPad on weekends. It's forbidden through the week.
My older son bought me an Oculus VR headset this year, and I haven't made much use of it. It's good for more than games, but I just haven't taken the time.
There are two games I play where I figure I don't have to feel guilty because I can easily relax with them and listen to JW videos, news, radio, etc. One is chess, and the other is a flight simulator.  I don't have a working version of MS Flight Simulator any more, of if I do, it's hasn't been tried for 15 years. But I do play the flight simulator on Google Earth. It's so much better than it used to be years ago. if you fly from JFK through most of NYC and several other urban areas, the AI has produced 3D versions of every house and even the trees all over NYC and Long Island and Jersey.
I enjoy flying over places I read about anywhere in the world. Or revisit places I've traveled to (Haiti, Turkey, Sydney) or places I lived in (CA, MO, NY). Today, I flew from NYC JFK up to Tuxedo and Warwick. I 'visited' Bethel, doing a couple of flyovers. The scenery is taken from almost exactly a year ago, so you can see the leaves start to change.
I just recorded a part of that flight, and it was a couple of gigabytes, but if I can chop a small piece of it down to under 20 MB, I might post a part of it below. In the VR headset, I give it a curved screen and a much wider 180 degree view, so that it resembles a cockpit, but the video (if I can post it) will just be a flat view from the middle of the screen.

A public talk titled "The World Has Ended; Millions Now Living May Never Die" was first delivered on February 24, 1918 in Los Angeles, California. Five weeks later, on March 31, 1918 the title was changed to indicate absolute certainty: "The World Has Ended; Millions Now Living Will Never Die." The public talk continued to be delivered under that same title until 1925.
At a 1931 Bible Student assembly in Columbus, Ohio Rutherford proposed a new name for the organization, Jehovah's witnesses, to differentiate them from the proliferation of other groups that followed Russell's teachings.
Joseph Franklin Rutherford, also known as Judge Rutherford, was the second president of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society (Jehovah's Witnesses) from 1917 until his death in 1942.
OK, a few questions. 
If I'm right what RUSSELL had built up was an Association of Bible Students possibly earthwide ? 
So, what Rutherford had taken over was this Association of Bible Students. But Rutherford broke away from that and formed an Organisation naming it Jehovah's Witnesses in 1931.
Now, this creates a question.  Who were the Millions now living that would never die ? 
This was 1918. Pre-JW.  International Bible Student era.  So exactly who did Rutherford expect to 'never die' ? 
(At this point it matter not that his prediction failed. More to the point of who he expected to live on).
And when Rutherford's breakaway 'group' were named Jehovah's Witnesses, did his idea change from 'Millions' now living will never die, to, Only JWs now living will never die ?
There must have come a time when the quantity of people expected to continue living decreased rapidly. Because Rutherford's JWs would have been far less than the original International Bible Students Association. 
And when exactly was this Millions now living will never die idea, removed from the JW doctrines / teachings ? 
There seems to be lots of discussion about RUSSELL on here, but not much about RUTHERFORD. However it was Rutherford that 'built' the Jehovah's Witnesses religion. 
I'm interested in this big change of thought from the idea of, millions of individuals that would continue living, to the idea of, 'only Jehovah's Witnesses will continue living'.  So it would be goodto know exactly who Rutherford expected to 'continue living'. 
(information taken from https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/218007.Millions_Now_Living_Will_Never_Die_ )
The thoughts are mine but I found this book online when looking for information. I would think about buying the book but then wonder if it is likened to 'hero worship' / idolatry. 
Any thoughts ??? 
 
 

"It all goes back to what God promised Abraham. God repeated that promise, to Abraham's grandson, Jacob. In fact, *the scriptures I'm going to give you, prove that JW doctrine is false.*
At Gen.28: "10 Jacob left Beersheba and set out for Harran. 11 When he reached a certain place, he stopped for the night because the sun had set. Taking one of the stones there, he put it under his head and lay down to sleep. 12 He had a dream in which he saw a stairway resting on the earth, with its top reaching to heaven, and *the angels of God were ascending and descending on it.* 13 There above it stood the Lord, and he said: ‘I am the Lord, the God of your father Abraham and the God of Isaac. *I will give you and your descendants the land on which you are lying.* 14 Your descendants will be like the dust of the earth, and *they will spread out to the west and to the east, to the north and to the south. All peoples on earth will be blessed through you and your offspring."*
There we learn, that it is Abraham's seed, that will inherit the earth. But we learn more... The meaning of "angel", is messenger. Verse 12 tells us, that those messengers will be traveling between heaven and earth, and in the very next verse, says that the earth will belong to Abraham's seed and they will spread out to possess the entire planet.
Why put the vision of the angels, along with the promise of the people who are going to Inherit the earth?
At John1:51, Jesus told Nathaniel, "‘Very truly I tell you, you will see “heaven open, and *the angels of God ascending and descending in service to the Son of Man.’"*
Jesus repeated the words that God told Jacob, but added that the angels/messengers, would be serving Christ, AND, that Nathaniel himself, would see it.
When we keep in mind that angel is the original word, but when translated, really means "messenger", we can certainly see how Nathaniel saw messengers, serving Jesus Christ. Jesus was telling Nathaniel, that the apostles and Jesus' Elect, would fulfill Gen.28:12.
Who inherits the earth?
Abraham's seed, who are those born again as spirit. They are those who serve Christ, by being messengers of the gospel of light and life. In God's future kingdom, they will traverse between heaven and earth, so that as Gen.28:14 said; "All peoples on earth will be blessed through you and your offspring."
That quote is a parallel to Rev.22: "1 Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2 down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the trees of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. *And the leaves of the trees are for the healing of the nations."*
We see that the trees of life that bear fine fruit, will heal/bless, all the nations. Jesus compared his messengers, to trees... their teachings, to fruit (Luke6:43-45; Matt.7:15-20).
Rev.21 reads; "2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, *COMING DOWN OUT OF HEAVEN from God,* prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, ‘Look! God’s dwelling-place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God."
When referring to those faithful servants of Christ, who become spirit-born sons of God; Gal.3 reads;
"26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptised into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 *If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE.*
Those who belong to Christ (his body members... his messengers who serve him), become spiritual seed of Abraham. They inherit the promise made to Abraham.
They, inherit the earth. They bring with them from heaven, healing and blessing to all the Nations.-
And so, the doctrine of the WT that teaches that the anointed, never return to earth, is false.
The teaching that there is a "heavenly hope" and an "earthly hope", is false.
The teaching that JW "elders" are the "princes in all the earth" when God's kingdom arrives, is false.
The teaching that JWs are the ones that inherit the earth, is false."
Pearl Doxsey  - https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2021/10/who-inherit-earth.html
 
"For the creation eagerly waits with anticipation for God’s sons to be revealed.  For the creation was subjected to futility—not willingly, but because of him who subjected it—in the hope that the creation itself will also be set free from the bondage of corruption into the glorious freedom of God’s children.  For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together with labor pains until now."  Rom 8:19-22
Jacob's Ladder
 
 

With the whole Facebook situation, information like this will be wiped out. As mentioned in the other thread, a lot of things is taking place concerning what The Left/Libs deemed misinformation, and now it puts the spotlight on those who oppose them, this includes Truthers as a whole. Should things go side ways, and Section 230 flourishes, there wouldn't be a lot of truth to be spoken in the face of conspiracy, even in the light of talk of COVID-19.
The most damning thing is this sets everyone up for the reset and what is to take place 2030 and onwards at a faster pace.
That being said, I've mentioned COVID-19 Pills. Granted they can't get people to vaccinated, although they have a choice, do not be surprise if they enforce it. The pills will have to be taken multiple times, as is the vaccine, granted, the effectiveness, mainly Pfizer and J&J with Pfizer going down to 84% after 6 months, reduces protection over time, so it may be an every few months type of things, which justifies this pandemic is actually Endemic. Also, Natural Immunity is also talked negatively by many.
Interestingly enough, in the Independent Journalist space, it has gotten some people worked up, in the Truther community what transpired with IJ Pool and Murphy was talked about a lot, even that of which Mr. Southern stated (Her being called "Mr." has a history behind it)
 

Good information.  It's crazy though. I think things like this have happened here in UK, where the Police are told to do things that are not even written in law.  So much bluff and so many lies. 

https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2021/10/05/wheres-the-biden-executive-order-mandating-the-vaccine/
 

Just seen on YT. Here is a JW committee where a woman can also participate in decisions led by men.
But that triggered another story i have heard. Imagine married couple. Wife is talented for music and singing. And she is looking forward to being able to be part of a choir to sing “theocratic” songs. The husband is looking forward to the same and they apply as volunteers. But one needs to pass a rehearsal in order to be a part of the choir. Unfortunately, the husband has no hearing at all and he drops out of the election. That means, neither wife has the opportunity to join the choir. ....... But there is a solution. The husband is talented at laying gypsum boards and smoothing boards. And here’s a wonderful opportunity for both of them to volunteer. Now it is only up to the wife to be happy as she helps with the installation of the drywall and their treatment, .... and she can hum while working on the construction site. This is what unity, hierarchy and submission to the husband mean. What a wonderful spiritual paradise.
 
 

Well, there wasn't a lot that she was allowed to comment on - "poor posture" inhibits good singing.  Seemed like such an important meeting, all the while stuff like this is happening:
exjwReddit:  "Just informed of a child sexual predator in the hall."
"So my wife and I were informed by the elders that we are to review chapter 32 of the learn from the great teacher book. Which I was like ok what's this about?..
The next thing out of their mouths shocked me. Don't let your children be around or alone with Brother so-and-so....ever. Zoom breakout rooms or when we return to in person services.
Me being a paranoid father goes into our states very easy to use sex offender registry. All the nearby territory zip codes and our territory zip codes and he's not registered...
So is he a predator that has only been caught and disciplined in the congregation? And to be so hush hush about it that you had to have a special meeting to tell us as parents. Shouldn't everyone know there is a sexual predator in their presence?
Is this just more evidence that they cover this shit up and even in my own congregation?
As if I didn't have enough reason not to return to the hall in person. This just cements my determination to never return. They put all the responsibility of the predator on us and we have to be on alert at all times, especially the meetings?
I thought the meetings were a spiritual paradise a place to be protected from the world. Seems we are more in danger in what's supposed to be a safe place."

I had previously said, 
I do see how some things are just anti-JW, but i also see when the Watchtower / GB  / JW Org have wrong direction too. It's a matter of being balanced. And as for all the other things you've mentioned, I just don't go there. It's not my business to dream up thoughts of what the 'world' is doing. 
When things happen we will know, and if we are serving Almighty God through Christ, then we need not worry. 
For those that try to preserve their life will lose it, but those that lose their life will gain it back again. 

https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/so-much-for-vaccine-generated-herd
So much for vaccine-generated herd immunity
In an Israeli hospital outbreak, 96% vaccination rates (and universal masking) made no difference. And guess who had mild cases? Hint: not the vaccinated.

The "new light" shone on Julia Blum or ... Julia did a little more research. Of course, it was all under the "guidance of a spirit" who doesn’t mind a woman being a teacher.

How ocd of you.

According to these explanations, no one and nothing, as person and as place, neither in heaven nor on earth, is "protected" from sin.
Certainly, it would be good, for someone to tell us, what that would mean at all: To be protected from sin?
To be protected as perfect individual/place ? .., and to be protected as imperfect individual/place ?  

Another "set" time?
 
This is judgment, Adam and Eve faced judgment.  The "flaming blade of a sword" is the fire of God's Word.  "Is not my word like fire, declares the Lord, and like a hammer that breaks the rock in pieces?"  Jer 23:29
"For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart."  Heb 4:12
 
 
 

Jesus, is the tree of life.  If Satan had his "eyes" on it, it was to bring about his enemy's destruction. (Gen 3:15) The anointed, are also referred to as "trees".  (Matt 7:17,20; John 6:57,58,63;17:2;6:44,45; Rev 2:7; Ps 1:3; Rev 22:2,14)  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt+7%3A17%2C20%3B+John+6%3A57%2C58%2C63%3B17%3A2%3B6%3A44%2C45%3B+Rev+2%3A7%3B+Ps+1%3A3%3B+Rev+22%3A2%2C14&version=NIV
The choice was given to Adam and Eve which "tree" to eat from, with the consequences for choosing the lies of Satan, instead of the "tree" of truth in the Word of God.  John 1:1  We also have that choice.  2 Thess 2:9,10
Two Trees - Past and Present