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Adam and Eve, what they didn't know...


BroRando

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Jehovah God took the man and settled him in the garden of Eʹden to cultivate it and to take care of it.  Jehovah God also gave this command to the man: “From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction.  But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die.” (Genesis 1:15-17)
 
Adam had everlasting life in view. All he had to do, is not partake of the tree of the knowledge of good and bad. Other than that, Adam could eat from EVERY tree of the garden including the tree of life to satisfaction. If you are a Lover of Jehovah God, then you Aprecciate and Love the Deep things of God. Jehovah God is a Revealer of Secrets. (Daniel 2:47)
 
The anointed cherub that was covering in the Garden of Eden started to grow a haughty heart and out of that haughtiness, he became vengeful and vindictive at the first human couple. Angels are moral agents and don't have to ability to procreate, not as spirits anyway. Now the serpent was the most cautious of all the wild animals of the field that Jehovah God had made. So it said to the woman: “Did God really say that you must not eat from every tree of the garden?” (Genesis 3:1) This angel well knew what command that Jehovah laid on Adam. However, Jehovah never laid the command on Eve. It was Adam's Headship to guide his wife and Jehovah gave him some latitude in how to instruct her.
 
Jehovah simply commanded Adam, "but  as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die.” (Genesis 1:17) Either Adam choose to go beyond the command of not eating its fruit by adding"no touching" and about the fruit of the tree that is in the middle of the garden. (Non-specific). Or Eve took it on her own to expand Jehovah's command. Because next to that very tree of good and bad was the tree of Life. Evidently in the middle of the garden?
 
Notice Eve's answer goes beyond what Jehovah commanded Adam. "At this the woman said to the serpent: “We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden.  But God has said about the fruit of the tree that is in the middle of the garden: You must not eat from it, no, you must not touch it; otherwise you will die.’” (Genesis 3:2-4) Also, in her answer about the tree was not named...  but noticed in his reply he mentions knowing good and bad.
 
Next, the anointed cherub's response to Eve is quite telling. "At this the serpent said to the woman: “You certainly will not die.  For God knows that in the very day you eat from it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and bad.” (Genesis 3:4-5) Did Adam tell his Wife, not to eat of fruit of the tree in the middle, (non-specific) because the tree of life was also in the middle of the garden along with the tree of the knowledge of good and bad. Not only did Adam and Eve have permission to eat from 'the tree of life' before they sinned, but they could have eaten from it after they sinned before they went hiding from Michael the Archangel as he was walking in the breezy part of the day. "Later they heard the voice of Jehovah God as he was walking in the garden about the breezy part of the day, and the man and his wife hid from the face of Jehovah God among the trees of the garden." (Genesis 3:8) Evidently this wasn't the first time they spoke with Jehovah's Chief Messenger as the word of God since they heard him walking in the garden and this time went hiding.
 
Several things we can glean from the scriptures. One, if Michael is the voice and face of Jehovah God, it's quite likely he manifested in the flesh as he often did as Jehovah's Chief Messenger, the word of God. Second, if Michael manifested, it is possible that the anointed cherub manifested in the flesh and the Scriptures were speaking of him symbolically as a serpent due to his caution and his turning and twisting of Jehovah's Word. Third, notice Jehovah's response to his Only Begotten Son as he blocked access to the tree of Life.
 
Jehovah God then said: “Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad. Now in order that he may not put his hand out and take fruit also from the tree of life and eat and live forever,—” (Genesis 3:22) This scripture gives us huge flashes of Spiritual Insight.
 
  1. Jehovah had to be talking with the Firstborn of All Creation (Michael) which means Godlike One or One Who is Like God? It was at this instant of time that Michael understood that his God and Father was giving him an assignment which would end death. Michael was a mortal agent as the other angels were. We see that Michael "has become better than the angels to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs." (Hebrews 1:4) Read (Philippians 2:6-10 for that name.)
  2. Notice the (—) at the end? What Jehovah was thinking, he did not express in words because Jehovah sincerely wanted to grant life to Adam and Eve. Instead, Satan, Adam, and Eve forced his hand to withhold that GIFT. But not from others...... not the seed prophesied at (Genesis 3:15)
  3. Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad. Notice it doesn't say like us as Apostates and Opposers of Jesus Christ falsely claim. The little devils speak just like their father... research it.. you will SEE "like ONE of us" Look up the Hebrew....
 
With that Jehovah God expelled him from the garden of Eden to cultivate the ground from which he had been taken.  So he drove the man out, and he posted at the east of the garden of Eden the cherubs and the flaming blade of a sword that was turning continuously to guard the way to the tree of life." (Genesis 3:23-24) Jehovah could not allow or drop His Divine Standard for Adam and Eve to partake of the tree of life and live forever in their imperfect and disobedient state. There was Opportunity for them to do what is Right and partake of the tree of life, they simply choose not too.... Satan knew that Adam and Eve would positively die! That is how Sinister Satan is!!
 
For the next 1,500 years, Satan and his angels had their eyes on that tree of life with no avail. Making up schemes to taint Jehovah's Seed. But Jehovah guarded the tree of life and is granting life to those called, chosen, and sealed. What Satan wanted so badly for himself... Jehovah gave to his Chosen Ones of the 144,000. Amen!
 
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So not agreeing with the governing body is a sin worthy of death?

Jesus, is the tree of life.  If Satan had his "eyes" on it, it was to bring about his enemy's destruction. (Gen 3:15) The anointed, are also referred to as "trees".  (Matt 7:17,20; John 6:57,58,63;17:

I agree with all you said.... except this last sentence.... It seems you have put yourself as a judge... be careful.... we are not here to judge others.  We cannot say someone did something deliberate

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9 hours ago, BroRando said:

garden including the tree of life to satisfaction.

I do not agree with this statement.  from the insight: The expression tree of life is used with regard to true wisdom, the fruitage of the righteous, the realization of a thing desired, and calmness of the tongue; it is also associated with the crown of life. (Pr 3:18; 11:30; 13:12; 15:4; Re 2:7, 10)

They were put outside the garden because they had eaten from the tree Jehovah said they may not eat. There is no way he would guarantee their everlasting life if they had not passed the test. The tree of life did not have inherent life-giving properties in its fruit - BUT it represented gods guarantee of everlasting life to those he would allow to eat of its fruit  Gen 2:9; 3:22

Your speculations are not correct my dear

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16 hours ago, Arauna said:
On 9/30/2021 at 2:42 PM, BroRando said:

garden including the tree of life to satisfaction.

I do not agree with this statement. 

Arauna I agree with you on this point.  Adam and Eve would not have been allowed to eat from the 'tree of life'. 

But so much of this topic seems distorted. It is my opinion that Mr Rando is not a JW and is slyly twisting scriptures to mislead people. 

I do note also that in Gen 3: 22  from the NWT 

Jehovah God then said: “Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad.

Whereas Gen 3: 22 from the Berean Study Bible

Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil.

Do you see the difference ? 

Us being in uppercase surely means Almighty God and the Son of God (Jesus).

 

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2 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

But so much of this topic seems distorted. It is my opinion that Mr Rando is not a JW and is slyly twisting scriptures to mislead people. 

I do note also that in Gen 3: 22  from the NWT 

Jehovah God then said: “Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad.

Patiently claims Jehovah only stated {{us}} in the same manner Satan implied Jehovah Lied by stating

15 hours ago, BroRando said:

Now the serpent was the most cautious of all the wild animals of the field that Jehovah God had made. So it said to the woman: “Did God really say that you must not eat from every tree of the garden?” (Genesis 3:1)

However, Jehovah God then said: “Here the man has become like One of us in knowing good and bad. 

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5 hours ago, Arauna said:

I do not agree with this statement.  from the insight: The expression tree of life is used with regard to true wisdom, the fruitage of the righteous, the realization of a thing desired, and calmness of the tongue; it is also associated with the crown of life. (Pr 3:18; 11:30; 13:12; 15:4; Re 2:7, 10)

They were put outside the garden because they had eaten from the tree Jehovah said they may not eat. There is no way he would guarantee their everlasting life if they had not passed the test. The tree of life did not have inherent life-giving properties in its fruit - BUT it represented gods guarantee of everlasting life to those he would allow to eat of its fruit  Gen 2:9; 3:22

Your speculations are not correct my dear

 

14 hours ago, BroRando said:

With that Jehovah God expelled him from the garden of Eden to cultivate the ground from which he had been taken.  So he drove the man out, and he posted at the east of the garden of Eden the cherubs and the flaming blade of a sword that was turning continuously to guard the way to the tree of life." (Genesis 3:23-24) Jehovah could not allow or drop His Divine Standard for Adam and Eve to partake of the tree of life and live forever in their imperfect and disobedient state. There was Opportunity for them to do what is Right and partake of the tree of life, they simply choose not too.... Satan knew that Adam and Eve would positively die! That is how Sinister Satan is!!

 

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15 hours ago, BroRando said:

Patiently claims Jehovah only stated {{us}} in the same manner Satan implied Jehovah Lied by stating

However, Jehovah God then said: “Here the man has become like One of us in knowing good and bad. 

You are a fake Mr rando. And you serve the devil well. Twisting scripture will not go well for you. 

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42 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

You are a fake Mr rando. And you serve the devil well. Twisting scripture will not go well for you. 

 

18 hours ago, BroRando said:

Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad. Notice it doesn't say like us as Apostates and Opposers of Jesus Christ falsely claim. The little devils speak just like their father... research it.. you will SEE "like ONE of us" Look up the Hebrew....

 

18 hours ago, BroRando said:

Jehovah God then said: “Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad. Now in order that he may not put his hand out and take fruit also from the tree of life and eat and live forever,—” (Genesis 3:22)

WTS Quote:  For example, unrepentant wrongdoers are removed from the congregation. (1 Cor. 5:11-13) What is more, the guard chambers in the entryways of those gates may remind us that today, when it comes to worshipping Jehovah, no one is admitted who does not have divine approval.

When confronted with such issues, we do well to picture Ezekiel’s visionary temple with those lofty gates and remember: Jehovah does not lower his righteous standards, regardless of pressures from this wicked world. Do we agree with our heavenly Father and stand up for what is right?

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JW believe that the “tree of the knowledge of good and evil” was literally a tree, but that the fruit from the tree was not poisonous and would not therefore cause Adam and Eve to die. They explain that the death occurred due to disobedience to the ban on eating, and not because of eating the fruit itself.

By the same analogy, it could be interpreted that eating fruit from the "tree of life", before and / or after the sins of Adam and Eve, would not mean that the fruit from the "tree of life" has the literal value of eternal, immortal life. Both have only symbolism, and the punishment or reward associated with both trees is in the hands of God.
In other words, the ban could have been expressed in this way as well; Do not look at the tree of knowledge, because you will be punished by death if you look at it, because you will die from looking at it. 

"Looking" into something can also be punishable, by the words of Jesus, because to look with desire at something signifies sin, and every sin must be punished. As in the case of watching a woman with desire. (... whoever looks at a woman to desire her has already committed adultery.)

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4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

JW believe that the “tree of the knowledge of good and evil” was literally a tree, but that the fruit from the tree was not poisonous and would not therefore cause Adam and Eve to die. They explain that the death occurred due to disobedience to the ban on eating, and not because of eating the fruit itself.

By the same analogy, it could be interpreted that eating fruit from the "tree of life", before and / or after the sins of Adam and Eve, would not mean that the fruit from the "tree of life" has the literal value of eternal, immortal life. Both have only symbolism, and the punishment or reward associated with both trees is in the hands of God.
In other words, the ban could have been expressed in this way as well; Do not look at the tree of knowledge, because you will be punished by death if you look at it, because you will die from looking at it. 

"Looking" into something can also be punishable, by the words of Jesus, because to look with desire at something signifies sin, and every sin must be punished. As in the case of watching a woman with desire. (... whoever looks at a woman to desire her has already committed adultery.)

The tree named by Jehovah symbolizes Jehovah's Sovereignty to decide what is good and badm after all HE created them.  Adam and Eve had access to all other trees.  Jehovah God also gave this command to the man: “From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction.  But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die.” (Genesis 1:15-17)

After Eve eat from the tree that belonged to Jehovah. She became a theif, then later became deceiptive and a liar.  The father of the lie told her, "At this the serpent said to the woman: “You certainly will not die.  For God knows that in the very day you eat from it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and bad.” (Genesis 3:4-5)

Did Satan say {{Like us}} knowing good and bad?  No!  He said God knows!  So the phrase {{like One of us}} that Jehovah God stated was in referrence to Jehovah Alone who knows good and bad. 

After Eve partake of the tree of knowledge, she did not run 10 seconds after eating to tell her husband but keep the event hidden until the day became many days. It was then she was deceptive so she could try to deceive Adam that shenever died....in that day.  She probably repeated it several times, before convincing Adam that God was lying to her.

However, when Adam believed Eve, he decided to join her in her rebellion.  Probably unaware of the conversation that Satan and Eve had. That would have threw up a red flag.  

The tree did have any inherent qualities other than Jehovah's Word. 

:So my word that goes out of my mouth will be. It will not return to me without results, But it will certainly accomplish whatever is my delight, And it will have sure success in what I send it to do." (Isaiah 55:11)

"For a thousand years are in your eyes just as yesterday when it is past, Just as a watch during the night." (Psalm 90:4)

"So all the days of Adam’s life amounted to 930 years, and then he died." (Genesis 5:5)

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15 hours ago, BroRando said:

disobedient state. There was Opportunity for them to do what is Right and partake of the tree of life, they simply choose not too.... Satan knew that Adam and Eve would positively die! That is how Sinister Satan is!!

Adam and Eve knew what was right and wrong BEFORE they ate of the tree of good and bad

Unfortunately many JWs are not aware of this - not taught well.  We have free choice as a gift from jehovah..... We can can choose to do so many things as long as it remains within the "right and wrong" boundaries of Jehovah..... that is: in every situation one has choice to do the morally correct action in line with your conscience, holy spirit and the principles of from jehovah. Adam and eve had the inclination to do what is right..... until they seared their conscience

How do we know Adam and eve understood right from wrong? Morality?  Jesus was a perfect human on earth. He was surrounded by thieves, revilers, prostitutes and even satan who tempted him...... but he was not tempted to do  wrong but in each situation CHOSE to do the right action. He never seared his conscience, did not speak from his own origin and did not violate the law - not because he was programmed to do what is right but because he exercised FREE WILL and CHOICE. Could he have sinned? Yes..... but he exercised his choices in the most difficult of situations - setting a wonderful example for us.

So what does it mean that "adam became like us " knowing good and bad........ it means that they have made themselves like God to choose their own morality - they rejected the good and bad limits jehovah had set on them. From this point forward mankind was doomed because they would now rule themselves and create religions and philosophies to manage societies. All would fail to bring true peace, security and happiness. 

Soon the outcome of Adam's wilful choice of independence will reach the final conclusion:  We have freedom in everything but jehovah created us to be part of him.... to do this we must remain within the moral boundaries he set for us, stay close to Him in his love and remain Holy. But we will do this by free will because we realize that to choose to be separate from him will distort us.  We are free and yet bound to Him  in a loving way. 

Jehovah is not a dictator. He wants us to realize that we should choose by free will to willingly choose his moral values because it is the only beneficial thing for mankind. Only if all people willingly show self-sacrificing love like Jesus can we bring happiness and harmony to earth. Self-sacrifice means that we will not use our free will to be selfish, choose out own way or ne hurtful to others in any way.... 

 

 

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On 10/1/2021 at 8:45 AM, BroRando said:

Jehovah does not lower his righteous standards,

Very true that Almighty God 'does not lower His righteous standards'.

But ufortunately the Watchtower and JW Org have never had righteous standards. 

From the times of the Bible Students of Russell, through Rutherford with the many splits of the Association, and right through the Jehovah's Witnesses, they have not had and do not have Almighty God's righteous standards. 

We all sin Mr Rando. But those who give themselves authority should be more careful before they deliberately sin. 

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4 hours ago, BroRando said:

So the phrase {{like One of us}} that Jehovah God stated was in referrence to Jehovah Alone who knows good and bad. 

You suggests how He talking to himself alone? To make conversation alone with himself? So, the phrase, let us make a man in our image, was not addressed to the Firstborn or to the angels, but he talked to himself? It can be, ..... but in that case other part of JW theology (or your theology) in interpreting Bible text perhaps need "further clarification". 

Until when was God alone in a universe that did not exist because there was no Only Begotten who participated in the creation of everything that did not exist before his existence? When did God stop talking to himself and start talking to other individuals?

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    • Convoluted and muddy thinking again: You say that if we can assume the tablet was 568 this suggests that the king was in his palace to issue the order for Borsippa. But 20 years earlier, a runner would have to run for weeks or a month to get that order from Judah for 588, a date historically suggested for Nebuchadnezzar's army to be sieging Jerusalem.  So your basic point is that, yes it might make sense for 568, the astronomical date for his 37th year, but if we want his 37th year to be twenty years earlier, in his 17th year in 588, when he might be there with his army at Jerusalem. And even though this is more difficult because a runner would have to take up to a month for the message (and a month to get back), then that means that his 37th year could also be his 17th year, and we can therefore use the 588 date for that same event.  If anyone here believes that to be a valid argument, they simply have no business discussing the topic.
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    • Try not to manipulate my words with your usual tactics. I said: "I’m sure you know by now that there is absolutely nothing in the diary indicating the year 588." I said this in direct response to your claim that the events on the tablet indicated 588. You said that the events on the tablet indicated 588. You said: "You can reference VAT 4956." . . .  "Why is this so significant? Pay extremely close attention to the language inscribed on this tablet" . . . "Year 37 of Nebukadnezzar, King of Babylon. Month I," . .  "Additional reports in this Diary include . . . Borsippa, . . . .This indicates that the conflict in that region in 588 . . . " No, you didn't actually say that. Besides I have no argument about 587. I only point out that ALL the astronomical evidence from the entire period shows that this was Nebuchadnezzar's 18th year. You have never made an argument (either valid or invalid) that "my argument about 587 can also be interpreted as 588."  Not that it matters in the least, but Borsippa is NOT way further in distance from Jerusalem. It's about 10 miles CLOSER "as the crow flies" and nearly the same distance using the usual travel routes of the time. Perhaps that's why no one mentioned it before. However, even here, I have already posted the entire contents of the tablet, including the reference to Borsippa. Not that it matters.  I certainly hope so!
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