Shiwiii

Got another reminder from my jw mom that Jehovah hates thanksgiving. I haven't hosted a thanksgiving dinner in over 12 years, so this year I wanted to relax at home and cook my own turkey this year, and was further reminded how much Jehovah hates turkey because it's a grave sin to cook turkey on a certain day, so much so that Jehovah is willing to kill billions of people if they cook a turkey and eat it. But thanksgiving is over, now jw's can feel free to enjoy their post thanksgiving dinner as thousands of jw's will be cooking turkey today and secretly enjoying their own thanksgiving holiday. So you naughty jw's better plan on spending extra time at those carts this weekend so you'll get Jehovah's forgiveness for eating that turkey.
 

You have failed your argument because you did not give details about Cornelius and you are (like a jw), assuming you know my beliefs about certain matters and painting me with a general brush.

Yes how wonderful JW's are when a D'fed person walks into the KH. Everyone stares at the D'fed.  'Oh look a D'fed, lets not talk to them, not encourage them to be here, but just look down on them'. 
Wow, and Jesus said Love was most important.  When Jesus was on the cross/stake, he said, "Father forgive them for they know not what they do"... But JW's are not even allowed to talk to a D'fed person, not even in the KH. 
BUT, when it's announced from the platform that the Elders have reinstated the D'fed, then wow, magic, the barrier is lifted, JW's can go and hug the D'fed.  Hypocrisy and rules of men at it's greatest. 

@Arauna   I have to say very bluntly that you talk rubbish.  Always going on ( OCD ) about the Devil's world. 
I think your understanding of English English  (as opposed to American English)  is very poor. Not the understanding of the words but  the understanding of the meaning of what I write. I will give you the benefit of the doubt, that you do not understand me, otherwise it is that you deliberately misquote me. 
Oh @JW Insider  what twaddle. Changing man made things / Traditions of men. That is not 'New Light'  That is not God supplying Holy Spirit to reveal important things. That is not a F&DS  supply 'food at the proper time'.  It is showing that so many mistakes were made in the past, that it could not have had God's / Christ's guidance.  
Quote , We got back to the higher powers (superior authorities) being secular in the very early 60's. .......
But this was an ORIGINAL TEACHING of the Bible Students.  Those in power changed it for their own purpose, and it would have caused many deaths or great suffering in WW2 I would presume. 
Quote Made smoking a DF offense, which has probably improved the health of thousands. 
But it was known in the late 1800's by the Bible Students that Smoking was wrong. However, to keep people in the Org, it was allowed until the numbers grew. I'm sure it was mentioned in the purple book. Is it the Kingdom book. 
Just as Christmas was allowed for years, until 1926 ?, even in Bethel   ( I wish I had a better memory) .
Quote. "We dropped the District Overseer. We reduced the quotas for various pioneer titles. We replaced the separate meeting for the "book study" to be replaced with personal/family study and more focus on field service."
Traditions of men. or Man made ideas. NOTHING to do with serving God properly. Not NEW Important teachings.
And then you go on about dates/ years, when the scriptures simply tell us we will not know the day or the hour.  Those dates are once again Man made teachings, and God tells us 'Put not your trust in earthling man'.   Proof positive with all the changes made. 
Quote "We now tell parents and guardians that they are free to inform authorities about child sexual abuse without concern for anyone's reputation. We now include elders informing authorities as part of the process wherever it is the law to do so. "
The GB / Org has been forced to do this due to so many court cases . BUT You must be saying then that the GB / ORG told people they  WERE NOT FREE TO REPORT BEFORE.  
Quote "I see nothing wrong with thinking of the GB as anointed " 
If the GB were anointed, would they seriously tell others of the anointed that the others are not the F&DS ?  Just those 8 men
Would an anointed GB tell others of the anointed, not to contact each other or to study God's word together ?
Are they not ALL the BODY OF CHRIST ?  Should they all not be united  as one ? 
10.30 pm UK time. Enough for now. 

Arauna...you didn't prove what you stated. I have been associated with dozens of Christian religions and have never found one that promotes smoking, pre marital sex, use of predictions, use of idols and voting for approval of homosexuality. So you are lying and spreading falsehood, something that your Jehovah hates. Now you need to come up with something or stop commenting because your making the jw's look even worse.

It boils down to anyone can cherry pick scriptures from the bible or change words to make it say what ever you want. I say it all started when they came up with their own version of the bible.
Arauna….id love to know which Christian religions promote smoking.

Yes, the Society is more than capable of talking out of both sides of its mouth. Its leaders simply have no respect for the truth -- only for their own traditions.
The GB member at the ARC flat-out lied about the GB's claim of being a spokesman.

That makes a lot of sense  Alanf thanks for sharing.
I always found it funny, when I was a JW how some scriptures does not apply to the org and some do. 
I also find it funny for example, as long as I was a JW the GB always said they were the spokesman or channel of Jesus and Jah on earth they will give scriptures blah blah blah but at the Australian Royal Commission suddently they weren't the only channel or spokesman of Jesus and Jah on earth... 🤣🤣🤣
 

The opposite of JW Elders would probably be True Christians. 

Quote @Arauna I disagree with the assumption that we can understand the mind of these children rapists  ..... they are so Satanistic.... we cannot imagine the lengths these people will go to and how far beyond a conscience they are..... and they are amongst us ..... and sometimes they pretend to be our moral leaders in society. 
Yes, and they are in the JW Org............... and YOU say 'we cannot understand the mind of these child rapists'.... So how can the Elders hide them in the JW Org, and how can the Elders say that these rapists are repentant ?     Remember YOU said we cannot understand the mind of these children rapists. They are so Satanistic... 
So get real, wake up, and stop looking for excuses in the outside Devil's world.
Remember scripture, Don't tell your brother he has a straw in his eye, when you have a rafter in yours. = JW Org,  Don't say how wicked the outside world is when the inside of JW Org is just as wicked. 
 
Someone must vote in your GB members, and it sure enough cannot be God or Jesus Christ because they would make better choices..... Someone must vote in the Elders, and I don't think it has anything to do with holy spirit because we can see how wicked many elders have been and still are.... So your Org must have some sort of voting system, which of course they pretend involves Christ. 

If i may join.
We need some research about how many JW committed CM. But WT Society as Conglomerate who run Company, Corporation and Religion in the same time from one Central place in US are not willing to publish such information to no one - neither to Courts nor to Members. Some sort of exception is what was happen in Australia. But such database is only for Australia Branch Office. Even with such reduced insight, we saw how 1006 JW members and those who has been very closely related to JW congregations, committed  crime. Many of them was MS and elders. Is that percentage small or big, we can discuss. But because of nature of crime and because of nature of JW church who has the highest moral standards, as they claim for themselves, any number is too high and embarrassing.
 Very very short respond: If WT Society is run by Spirit, than Spirit would know how to handle this problem. 
When we are in negative mode because talking often about bad things and problems, that can be a burden for both, ourselves and those who listen to us. Sometimes it is hard to "escape" this, because many of us had been very long in JW organization.
If it is what you say, than JW members would know about all this when open JW TV. But there is no news, documents on JW Broadcast about what going on. 
Also, WT Australia not joined National Redress Scheme. What can be reason for that? Perhaps, because WT don't want to admit any responsibility about CM. They have no intend to join. And such stand is unacceptable.  
The Australian Government is encouraging all institutions responsible for child sexual abuse, including those listed below, to join the Scheme without delay. - https://www.nationalredress.gov.au/institutions/institutions-have-not-yet-joined
 
 If GB run all moves of secular and spiritual nature from one Central place, and request of all people inside church to obey every decision, than they are responsible. And that is why we have GB members listed as Defendants in newest Court case.     

Lol this kind of reasoning cracks me up, too innocent to tell lies too innocent to appear in front of the court too innocent to be buying whisky 😆😆😆 
How do U know as a fact they have never touched anyone inappropriately, not saying they have but to make such statement that they have never U must have good evidence.

Arauna, you continue to revert back to entities outside of the organization to “compare” sins.  1 Pet 4:17
If this is the case, the organization is no better than any other.  But if it truly was “Jehovah’s organization”, it should be better, shouldn’t it.  After all, it boasts it is the way to spiritual salvation and “righteousness”.  Righteous practices are so far removed from the GB's agenda when it comes to child abuse.  
God’s WORD judges His anointed people. 2 Pet 3:5-7   Since the GB choose to follow their own “words”, their ordinances concerning child abuse, your scriptures in James aptly applies…to them.   2 Pet 3:10; Jer 23:29
The prophet’s words are not so archaic that they do not apply to God’s people today.  
 
Rev 18:4-8
 

What seems to have been proven in courts is that Elders deliberately hid the information from congregants, hence elders or others could continue to commit CSA offences,  and also that elders that had committed CSA WERE moved from one congregation to another. Those things HAVE been proven in court cases. So your defence of the GB Org is not so true. 

@Arauna How do you actually know that the GB members  " never personally touched a child (actually too innocent  to comprehend how wicked people can be - too good for this world), " ? 
There is it seems a massive data base of Child Sexual Abuse accusations hidden within the Org. And do you have all that information, so that you know who is and who isn't on that list ?  Do you know why the GB are holding back that list ? 
In Australia the brothers must have handed over their list of names about CSA accusations.
Here in the UK, after court action, the brothers handed over their list of CSA accusation.
But in the USA the GB and /or their lawyers are refusing to hand over their information ? 
Someone will scream 'but the laws are different in USA'. It would make no difference if the laws are different in USA,   IF the GB would act on the scripture 'We must obey God as ruler, rather than men'. 
Seems quite funny that the GB /Org tells people to disobey laws of man when it involves some things, such as joining the armed forces, but yet the GB hides behind laws when it suits them. 
@Srecko Sostar  Thank you, but did you actually read ALL of that ?  Sorry i only read bits. Too much for me. 
 
. 
 

Going back to original topic here. The man should not have 'put all his eggs in one basket' it seems.. 
It is sad that his business suffered though (if true) as his being shunned might have been 'punishment' enough.
I would have thought he would have had legal contracts for his business which would mean that customers would be under legal contract to continue business as usual. It does show the lack of love from JW's though, if they deliberately caused problems to his business. 

1.)  Jesus was on a mission that required him to walk into a trap, and be executed. He willingly did this knowing he would die, in a manner most painfull, where agony is an understated word.
In the Military this is called a "suicide mission" ... a concept that EVEY civilization INCLUDING the armies of ancient Israel fully understood.
2.) Jehovah NEVER prohibited suicide, and was well aware that there were circumstances where it was the only option available, as in the circumstances of King Saul's last battle.
3.) Jehovah never even prohibited cannibalism, which was widely practiced in Jerusalem under siege by enemies.... it is a CULTURAL taboo, not a prohibition from God.
Same thing with suicide.
As Brother Splaine of the governing body said in a video awhile back, "we" once had opinions on ever imaginable subject, and they were presented as inspired directives and pronouncements from God. The example he gave was the hidden and profound meaning that it was downhill from one town to Jerusalem and that camels walking downhill had one symbolic meaning, and camels walking uphill had another symbolic meaning.
To be kind, this was some writer's opinion only ... but it was presented as profound insight from the Word of God.  What it really was was unmitigated crap.  I had a LOT of respect for Brother Splaine as being the only sane person in the bunch, until he came out with the "overlapping generations" chart, and tried to explain that nonsense as TRUTH.
I suppose he could be reassigned to the basement janitorial closet of Bethel laundry room if he did not obey the directive, and that is why he did it.  Of course, again, I am trying to be kind.
How many THOUSANDS of times can you be wrong about everything in everyday life and still have credibility? I would have to quote Circus Master P.T. Barnum.
Four years ago my Siberian Husky got cancer in her right eye, and after several thousand dollars we thought it was "fixed", but it spread, and she was being eaten up by cancer, and we took her to the Veterinarian and had her painlessly executed. It was with great anguish on my wife and my part to have to do that, but that is what love and compassion required of us.
LOVE NEVER FAILS ... remember that one?
FOLLOW JESUS  ... remember that one?
What EXAMPLE did he set for all time, in considering whether suicide is or is not ALLOWED by Jehovah God?
He committed suicide by deliberately walking into a known trap, for the EXPRESS purpose of being executed.
AND JEHOVAH RESURRECTED HIM !
When the Governing Body admitted for the first time, and only time, that they were NEITHER inspired of God, or infallible, in the February 2017 Watchtower, my reaction was ...
DUH!
 
 
 
"Quod est necessarium est licitum"
That which is necessary, is legal
Like, AS JESUS POINTED OUT, rescuing a lost sheep on the Sabbath, when doing work on the Sabbath is expressly forbidden.
How much more that principle can be applied when there is no prohibition whatsoever.
Playing with and manipulating words and phrases to conform to cultural taboos that you already believe, all the way to your bones ... DOES NOT COUNT!
I am saddened by knowing that when my time comes ... and it will all too soon .... there will be no one at all among Jehovah's Witnesses  to show me the same love and compassion that I showed my dog.

Point 1. I really do laugh at this term "Only game in town"   As I've said before the JEWISH RELIGIOUS LEADERS would have said that serving God by obeying THEM and the Mosaic Law, was the only game in town. Jesus however proved those Religious leaders to be wrong. Jesus and his disciples carried over the good points of the Mosaic Law and discarded the bits no longer needed. (Such as animal sacrifices, circumcision etc). 
Russell & Co came out of former religions. I presume they must have carried over some good points from those former religions, then made adjustments or changed doctrines.
So why would it not be possible for people that have left the JW Org to form a new religion ?  Carrying over the good and disposing of the bad, of which there seems to be plenty....
I'm not saying it will happen but it does dispose of this idea of 'the only game in town' brainwashing. JW's seem to be taught that there cannot be anything else ever. What if Russell had believed that, the Bible Students would have never been formed. 
Point 2.  The 'Truth' / JW Org.
As I read more and more on here I am finding out that the Governing Body / Writing Dept'  / Legal Dept' et al,  have deliberately told many lies.
The latest I'm reading (on a new topic on here) but the info stems back a while, seems to contain information whereby the 'Org' / those in charge at the time, implied, that children cannot get baptised, and that blood transfusions were acceptable to the Organisation. It seems that this was written in order to get favours from a certain government. 
Both of those things are lies but seem to be deliberately used for some form of dishonest gain.
Then of course we have lawyers telling lies in court about shunning. 
And C.S.A court cases have proved that elders and others have deliberately lied. And the American 'section' of the JW Org deliberately withholding information regarding such matters.
Link this to misuse of scriptures, such as, Superior Authorities, which deliberately took away people's conscience / freedom of choice, in WW2.
And I'm sure people here can come up with lots more examples of lies, deliberate wrongdoing, mistakes, misinterpretations, 'new light' corrections et al.
Why am i writing all this ?  Well I am proving two points. 
1. If it's your 'only game in town' then it's not a good one. 
2. That calling it 'The Truth' is totally deceptive.
I do not think you would like it if I gave you a meal that was three quarters yummy, but a quarter poison. The poison might well contaminate the good food !
So, saying that the Org / GB are three quarters right does not help. 
 
 
 
 

I think Srecko was referring to a higher school to learn a trade.  Yet, they have also greatly encouraged young ones (men and women) just graduating from high school to become pioneers, which would not allow much time to attend a trade school.  

What do think of a country where Doctors can be forced to do abortions?
I can't accuse the country, Doctors can quit or take their business elsewhere. Criminals of war were just following orders because they thought sh:t rolled up hill, but you see, it doesn't.

Watchtower 1990 11/1 p. 26 Our Relative Subjection to the Superior Authorities
"As Christians, we face up to similar challenges today. We cannot take part in any modern version of idolatry—be it worshipful gestures toward an image or symbol or the imputing of salvation to a person or an organization." 

Jesus' words apply today, just as when he said them 2000 years ago:
Jesus told her, “Believe me. A time is coming when you Samaritans won’t be worshiping the Father on this mountain or in Jerusalem. 22 You don’t know what you’re worshiping. We Jews know what we’re worshiping, because salvation comes from the Jews. 23 Indeed, the time is coming, and it is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth. The Father is looking for people like that to worship him. 24 God is a spirit. Those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”  John 4:21-24
There is still no need for an earthly "mountainlike organization".  Do you know what you are worshiping?
 

I believe it goes without saying. 
“And let us consider one another so as to incite to love and fine works,  not forsaking our meeting together, as some have the custom.” 
However, I have come around to seeing your point. I will tell Bethel to award diplomas to elders upon being appointed. They obviously are the ones qualified to do it. Not only do they specialize in advanced and applied Bible study for 150 years, but they have the added qualification of showing that they can DO something with it, something that is often lacking in more traditional schools of higher learning.
What is a diploma? Essentially, is it anything more than a paper testifying that you have successfully answered someone’s 80 questions? So why should you ask the questions? What in the world do you have to offer? 
No. They qualify to ask the questions. And award the diplomas, should they ever choose to. 

agreed.
 
isn't that what was proposed in Tony's hypothetical situation? 
no mention of dedicating oneself to an organization either. 
or their parents according to Tony Morris. 

I would have to agree, it is serious and should not be taken lightly. However, the number of children baptized into being jws is pretty high and when Tony Morris is telling folks to keep a drivers license away from a child UNTIL they get baptized, leads me to believe that a jw baptism is done for many reasons other then the individual's seriousness towards God. 

agreed.
 
isn't that what was proposed in Tony's hypothetical situation? 
no mention of dedicating oneself to an organization either. 
or their parents according to Tony Morris.