Persecution of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Russia—Are Not the Anti-Cultists Responsible?

[TrueTomHarley]

Isabella reports—this is the second occasion of it—Jehovah’s Witnesses being arrested and detained in Russia—and subjected to torture.

With an active and prolific hate campaign being waged against Jehovah’s Witnesses online, it is reasonable to think that it indirectly instigates persecution of them in Russia—even escalating to arrests in which torture is applied, as in this case. It is reasonable to think that it indirectly instigates the torching of two Kingdom Halls in the United States during 2019, both of which burned to the ground.

Many groups are harassed in Russia, but it is Jehovah’s Witnesses who are head-and-shoulders the primary target. Why? It boils down to Jesus’ words: “If you were part of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own. Now because you are no part of the world...for this reason the world hates you.” (John 15:19) It is no more complicated than that. Hatred against Witnesses may be cloaked as reports from a “whistleblower” or complaints of those who would advocate freedom from “mind control,” but at root the motivation is simply disturbance that ones should choose to be “no part of the world.” No villain on TV ever says, “I am the villain.” Instead, he paints himself the wronged one with a righteous score to settle—and the program director strives so that we all see it that way. We must not be obtuse.

From TrueTom vs the Apostates!—“The book Secular Faith - How Culture Has Trumped Religion in American Politics attempts to reassure its secular audience through examining the changing moral stands of churches on five key issues. The book points out that today’s church members have more in common with atheists than they do with members of their own denominations from decades past. Essentially, the reassurance to those who would mold societal views is: ‘Don’t worry about it. They will come around. They always do. It may take a bit longer, but it is inevitable.’ Jehovah’s Witnesses have thwarted this model by not coming around.”

What is Secular Faith is saying is that churches have ceased being “no part of the world”—and having done such, are not hated, since “the world is fond of what is its own.” Jehovah’s Witnesses, and almost they alone, are yet remaining “no part of the world”—and that is why they are hated. That is why they have “apostates” who are off the charts in expressing vitriol. “Apostates” (within the Christian context) can be expected to proliferate in direct proportion to how the main body stays separate from the world. As such, Jehovah’s Witnesses should almost be proud of theirs, for in them they are validated. A religion that has made its peace on the “five key issues” of Secular Faith—what’s to apostatize from?

Anti-Witnesses scream “Cult!” like patrons scream ‘Fire!’ in a crowded theater. Are Jehovah’s Witnesses a cult? To the extent they are, it is because the Bible is a cult manual. The behavioral, informational, thought, and emotional “control” that anti-Witness activists complain about are no more than people living by the Bible, living peaceably in this world while they look to the righteous new one to come, the one the Bible describes as “the real life.” (1 Timothy 6:19)

I am not even sure that Witnesses should run from the word. It may be well to point to its origin. It is the same origin as ‘cultivate’—which denotes ‘caring for something’—and in a religious sense it refers to ‘caring for the matters of the gods.’ Okay. I’ll take it. Jehovah’s Witnesses ‘care for the matters’ of God. They trigger opposition from ones who don’t want them to do that. They trigger opposition from those who have crossed over to embrace various aspects of the world—the world that Jesus says not to be part of.

This is clear in the testimony of one witness testifying for the prosecution in the Russian trial that would ban the JW organization. She complained of “complete and total control of life by the Administrative Center.” Asked to give an example of this, she reported her expulsion from the congregations after she “began her close, but not officially registered, relations with a man.” She wants to violate, within the congregation, the Bible sanction of ‘sex only within marriage.’ The Witness organization does not allow it—and she spins it as “complete and total control of life,” hoping to get the Russian Justices riled up.

Look, it is fine to adopt the standards of the world so long as one goes there to do it—don’t bring it into the congregation. She signed on for such Bible-based standards, now she wants to change them—and when thwarted in that attempt, she seeks to get the organization that got in her way banned at the Russian Supreme Court! It is no more than revenge. It is no more than insisting the standards of the greater world be accommodated in the Christian congregation.

Disfellowshipping itself is a last-ditch attempt at discipline, when all else has failed, to ensure that a member not bring standards of the world, no matter how commonly accepted, into the congregation. Is it harsh? It certainly can be spun that way, but as ought to be clear by considering Secular Faith, no denomination can obey Jesus’ direction to remain “no part of the world” without it.

Among the reasons Christians were viciously persecuted in the first century was that their rituals were said to include cannibalism—historians report such. Obviously they did not, but from where might the charge originate? Might one look to the following passage in the sixth chapter of John, which begins by quoting Jesus?

“I am the bread of life. Your forefathers ate the manna in the wilderness and yet they died. This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that anyone may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread he will live forever; and for a fact, the bread that I will give is my flesh in behalf of the life of the world.

Then the Jews began to argue with one another, saying: “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” So Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in yourselves. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, and I will resurrect him on the last day.”

When they heard this, many of his disciples said: “This speech is shocking; who can listen to it?”...Because of this, many of his disciples went off to the things behind and would no longer walk with him. So Jesus said to the Twelve: “You do not want to go also, do you?” Simon Peter answered him: “Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life. We have believed and have come to know that you are the Holy One of God.”  (6:48-69)

What of the ones who did not “come to know” that Jesus was the Holy One of God? What of the ones who “went to the things behind and would no longer walk with him”? Did they thereafter leave their former co-disciples to worship in peace? Or did some of them draw from these words proof that Jesus would recommend cannibalism to his followers? Historians advance the notion seriously. And if some advanced the notion, might there not have arisen ones in the congregation who pinned the blame on Jesus himself, for uttering the words that got the persecution rolling; ‘what a blunder!’—I can imagine some saying (though not in his presence).

It makes me think of the uproar over CSA within Jehovah’s Witnesses today. They are comparatively successful at preventing it—nobody, but nobody, has gathered every single member on earth (at the 2017 Regional Conventions) to consider detailed scenarios in which child sexual abuse might take place so that parents, obviously the first line of defense, can remain vigilant. But the world has little success at preventing CSA, so it focuses on punishing it after the fact. Constantly we read of individuals arrested over CSA allegations. The one detail that never accompanies such reports is that of the individual’s religious affiliation or lack thereof. Yet with Jehovah’s Witnesses, that detail is never lacking. Why? 

Plainly, it is that the Witness organization attempted to do something about child sexual abuse—they did not just close their eyes as is typical of groups today, be they religious or not—and now liars are trying to spin it as though they love the stuff. Jehovah’s Witnesses are well-known as a religion that “polices its own.” It is an attribute that used to be viewed favorably, but now in the eyes of critics, it is spun as intolerable “control.” Those taking the lead in the Witness organization thereby came to know of individuals accused of CSA, and their “crime,” if it be one, is in leaving it up to affected ones themselves to report rather than “going beyond the law” to do it themselves. Time will tell how vile that sin is found to be, but it plainly falls far short of actually committing the CSA themselves, which is the pattern elsewhere. 

As with Jesus and his remarks that can, in the scheming of dishonest ones, be spun into encouragement of cannibalism, so the JW policy on CSA is spun by similarly dishonest ones to indicate that the organization is determines to nurture and protect it, whereas nothing could be further from the truth. Three times before the Australian Royal Commission, Geoffrey Jackson of the Witnesses’s Governing Body pleaded for universal, mandatory reporting laws, with no exceptions—if that could only be done, it would make the job of the Witness organization in policing its own without raising the ire of those outside the congregation “so much easier.”

Continuing his cross-examination, Justice Angus Stewart said: “Leaving aside the question of overriding mandatory law from the civil authorities...” I almost wish that Brother Jackson would have interjected at this point, “I wish you would not leave it aside, for it would solve the problem.” The greater world cannot make a dent in preventing childhood sexual abuse, and so it puts the onus on those who are trying to do something about it. Alas, our best lines invariably occur to us too late—had Brother Jackson picked up my line, it probably just would have got their backs up—and then (gulp) he would have looked at me with displeasure.

[TrueTomHarley]

See how the report is about Jehovah’s Witnesses being tortured in Russia and @4Jah2me attaches a laughing emoji.

What a nasty piece of work he is.

[Srecko Sostar]

11 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

With an active and prolific hate campaign being waged against Jehovah’s Witnesses online, it is reasonable to think that it indirectly instigates persecution of them in Russia—even escalating to arrests in which torture is applied, as in this case. It is reasonable to think that it indirectly instigates the torching of two Kingdom Halls in the United States during 2019, both of which burned to the ground.

I think it is value to have personal opinion and thoughts about this subject. But i think you failed. 

I would like to ask, did or does Russian secret service follows ex-JW channels , blogs, commentaries on internet or else, at all, or in such measure of interest that be possible to said how such information "inspired" Russian Government in a level to ban WTJWorg in their country? 

Secular sources and even JWorg web site giving idea how ROC is reason why JW and other religions are under political attack. 

Jehovah's Witnesses are one of the main targets of the attack led by the Russian Orthodox Church.  - https://wol.jw.org/hr/wol/d/r19/lp-c/102001284

I think the real reason for this persecution is that they approach people directly, preach face-to-face, and thus compete with the Russian Orthodox Church in some regions. Obviously, the Moscow Patriarchate and top security officials are behind the whole story. " - https://hr.rbth.com/politics/2017/05/03/borba-s-jehovinim-svjedocima-rusija-zabranila-americku-crkvu_755251 

Also, you have funny article on JW web site, about Who is Gog from Magog with "new clarification". Your's leaders gave explanation in which nothing had been said about ex-JW who, supposedly, leading any attack against WTJWorg in Russia or elsewhere. - https://www.jw.org/hr/biblioteka/casopisi/w20150515/gog-iz-magoga/

I am suggesting  you to publish new article with demanti, own rebuttal. :)))

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

16 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

See how the report is about Jehovah’s Witnesses being tortured in Russia and @4Jah2me attaches a laughing emoji.

What a nasty piece of work he is.

I note how tom has twisted the facts here. My laughing face emoji was towards tom's long and boring comment, making excuses for JW Org. You may note that tom was quoting from one of his books again, which in NO WAY related to the tortured JWs in Russia. 

Then tom goes on about CSA etc, which again is not about the Russian torture.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

To quote tom harley once more "Constantly we read of individuals arrested over CSA allegations. The one detail that never accompanies such reports is that of the individual’s religious affiliation or lack thereof. Yet with Jehovah’s Witnesses, that detail is never lacking. Why? " 

Just to prove what rubbish tom writes here are three examples i've found to disprove his lies. 

https://abc7news.com/tag/priest-sex-abuse/

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/church-england-child-sex-abuse-charles-gordon-dickenson-cheshire-vicar-paedophile-a8812131.html

https://fox13now.com/2017/06/23/lds-bishop-arrested-for-sexual-abuse/

 

 

[TrueTomHarley]

3 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Just to prove what rubbish tom writes here are three examples i've found to disprove his lies. 

You idiot, the three examples you’ve given are all clergy—those in leadership capacity. Exactly my point. With JWs it is almost never those who would correspond to clergy—it is the ordinary member. The printing presses will run dry if they ever attempt to report on members of the other denominations—but they never will because hardly anyone other than JWs tried to do anything about the CSA problem. 

And there is Srecko giving you a ‘thanks’ for the ridiculous comparison you made. Silly as you may be, he does not here give evidence that he is any smarter.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

You idiot, the three examples you’ve given are all clergy—those in leadership capacity. Exactly my point. With JWs it is almost never those who would correspond to clergy—it is the ordinary member. The printing presses will run dry if they ever attempt to report on members of the other denominations—but they never will because hardly anyone other than JWs tried to do anything about the CSA problem. 

And there is Srecko giving you a ‘thanks’ for the ridiculous comparison you made. Silly as you may be, he does not here give evidence that he is any smarter.

Tom, you are unfortunately suffering as JTR Jr is, by lacking in spiritual thinking. You also seem lacking in love. Both you and he are JWs, which you both seem to think is the only true way of serving God. But you both prove by your attitudes that you do not serve God well when compared to scripture. 

I'm a bit concerned about James, him having a house full of guns and then him trying to justify war. He does not seem as if he is a spiritual man at all. 

Likewise yourself. You have a need to call me names. I thought you might like a quote from a Watchtower mag' w06 2/15 p. 31

What, then, did the expression “despicable fool” signify? The word used here sounded similar to a Hebrew term that means “rebellious,” or “mutinous.” It designates a person as morally worthless, an apostate and a rebel against God. So the person addressing his fellow as a “despicable fool” is as much as saying that his brother should receive a punishment fit for a rebel against God, everlasting destruction. From God’s standpoint, the one uttering such a condemnation against another could merit that severe sentence—everlasting destruction—himself.—Deuteronomy 19:17-19.

Do you think I am 'fit for destruction' Tom ?

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Quote "With JWs it is almost never those who would correspond to clergy.. "

Two reasons you might think that.

1. Because when it is Elders or higher ranks committing CSA in JW Org, it is kept hidden in the congregation, anywhere around the Earth..

2. Because that 23 year Database, of CSA accusations in America, has not yet been OPENED UP to the public. 

There is another reason but it is a bit debatable. That of a father committing CSA on his own children when the father is an Elder. You might not consider that to be JW Org related even though the father is an Elder. 

Another quote "because hardly anyone other than JWs tried to do anything about the CSA problem."

How is, hiding information from the Police, the Authorities, the congregations, trying to do something about the CSA problem ?

It is only trying to 'wash the dish or pot' on the outside, to make it appear clean. 

[Srecko Sostar]

9 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

You idiot, the three examples you’ve given are all clergy—those in leadership capacity. Exactly my point. With JWs it is almost never those who would correspond to clergy—it is the ordinary member. The printing presses will run dry if they ever attempt to report on members of the other denominations—but they never will because hardly anyone other than JWs tried to do anything about the CSA problem. 

And there is Srecko giving you a ‘thanks’ for the ridiculous comparison you made. Silly as you may be, he does not here give evidence that he is any smarter.

Dear Tom,

try to look on this clergy-ordinary member issue from standpoint of WT publication, WT lawyer, JW congregation members and Bible. 

WT publication quoting how JW don't have PAID CLERGY. Obviously in the eyes of writer there is some difference between PAID and NOT PAID CLERGY. But, such explanation giving space for possibility that JW Church HAVE CLERGY at the end of the day.

WT Lawyer contribute and confirm that JW Church in fact HAVE CLERGY, and they defending this with asking for all rights and privileges for JW Elders as Catholic Church Clergy have. 

JW congregation members are in the middle and have delusion how their church do not have CLERGY because they believe that elders are not clergy.

Bible giving perspective how jobs or working place in congregation not making elders to be clergy but only people with more responsibilities. Bible say how ALL of YOU are BROTHERS.

In this picturing with explanation, in one Court case, what @James Thomas Rook Jr. highlighted in one post, WT Lawyers told how all JW people are "ordained ministers". That means how all members in JW Church belong to hierarchy as any Clergy does. In that aspect, even minor member belong to particular level of clergy hierarchy. 

With Bible explanation how ALL of YOU are BROTHERS we can say how every case of CSA in JW Church is more serious than those cases in Catholic church. Because in JW congregation, in theory, elders are just members of congregation and non elders people are also just members of the congregation. That makes CSA to be plague in all Body of JW congregation, and not just separate, lonely exemption of few people who made sin/crime as Catholic Priest in Roman Church. Catholic Laity are just laity, people who have weak spiritual education. In JW congregation rank and file members have best "spiritual education", according to WT publication claims, so they carry more responsibility and are more "guilty" than Catholic laity. :)) But, as we see more Catholic pedophile clergy/laity members ended in Court than JW pedophile members. And you know why.