Upon Leaving the Organization

[Witness]

14 hours ago, AnnaNana said:

You say you didn't get "baptized" into an organization. Of course you didn't. Neither did any of us.

The baptism questions INCLUDE one’s dedication to the organizational idol. Read them again and compare them with Christ’s words in Matthew chapter 28:19-20

14 hours ago, AnnaNana said:

Jesus never said to leave the organization

 Where are the scriptures that tell us that Jesus said never to leave the organization - an organization not spoken of in the scriptures to begin with?

14 hours ago, AnnaNana said:

Jesus was also "torn by wolves" when he was waiting in the Jewish organization arrangement. He did not leave. He waited on Jehovah. We must follow Jesus' example, even when it is difficult. (He said it would be difficult.) 

WAITING?  He was actively pronouncing the sins of his people, and was killed for preaching the need for refinement, rejected as the coming Messiah.  Again, his message was the need for repentance, not to remain under the rule of the Pharisees, which is contrary to what YOU are promoting. (Luke 13:1-5; Matt 10:33)   He wasn’t waiting for the Pharisees to tell HIM what to do; he was fulfilling  prophecy about himself, and preparing the disciples to lead others into truth after he died and was resurrected.  Those today who listen to his words and follow in his footsteps, are “killed”/disfellowshipped by the organization for preaching the same truth - his teachings,  not doctrine of men. (Rev 13:15)  His disciples entered a new covenant, no longer under the old law covenant, the old “organizational arrangement”.  Are you saying that JWs who are disfellowshipped must return to the “old” teachings, the old wine made with rotten fruit of failed teachings? (Matt 7:15-20)  Or, are they to put on a new wine skin and fill it with the new wine of God’s word in Christ, thus preserving their lives? (Matt 9:17)  

We don’t return to vomit. (Isa 28:7-10)  Obviously, the apostles never bowed down to the power of the Pharisees either. (Acts 5:29)  And they were told to take care of Christ's sheep.  John 21:17  

14 hours ago, AnnaNana said:

@Witness, You claim to be part of the "bride". Jesus came to save the children. You want to throw the children in the fire. You are not what you claim to be.

And you are not making the claim that you are part of the "bride".  In the parable of the virgins of "Israel", the foolish ones were not prepared for the coming of Christ. They went to those who “sell” oil/provisions.  The wise responded with their lamps in order, when they heard the call.  While the foolish virgins were busy buying spiritual food from those other than Jesus Christ,  the wise WENT OUT to meet the bridegroom, prepared to  enter the marriage feast, and the door was then shut.  The others were too late to enter. (Matt 7:21-23)  The anointed who remain inside the organization cannot join with the  bridegroom, unless they go out to meet him, and are  “killed”/disfellowshipped  by the Beast/organization for their testimony to Christ.  (Matt 25:1-13;Rev 11:1-3,7)

The false prophet of Rev. 13:11,12, demands that no one can “buy or sell” spiritual provisions unless they have the “mark”/the name of the idol they worship – “Jehovah’s organization”.  JWs “buy” their spiritual provisions from the leadership/false prophets in exchange for their servitude - not to God, who doesn’t live in “temples made with hands” -  but for their servitude to the organizational idol.  Rev 13:14-17; Acts 17:24-25,29)

You expect the anointed and all JWs to show submission to men, and not listen to the call of their Master.  Rev 18:4

 I've been on this forum since at least 2015-16.  I have always pleaded with people to get out of the organization and save their souls.  You have little to say about Revelation 18:4-8. In fact, you totally ignore it; Why? Because the call is exactly the opposite of what you say Christ is telling people - to stay where they are. So what should people believe, God's word, or your words that have no backing in scripture?  You dismiss scriptures that do not fit your agenda, especially about the priesthood.  No matter what is presented in front of you using God's word, you preach the opposite.  You fill the page with empty words, empty sentiments lacking all sincere compassion for JW's.  

 God's word is like fire.(Jer 23:29) It can refine the heart of the person if he or she submits to His word (Luke 3:16; Mal 3:3; Rev 3:18); or it can condemn them. (Hos 6:5; Lule 3:17; 2 Thess 1:8)  Condemnation comes when God's word is ignored, and that word presently is in Revelation 18:4-8; 14:6-12.

Jesus is calling people out of the organization, out of the apostate city of "Babylon".  

 

  When a house is on fire, you do your best to  pull people out of it, whose lives are in danger. You don't wait and see who will live and who will die. But that's what you want! You are on the outside, telling people to remain inside. How convenient for you!  Do you know that that's exactly what Robert King tells people? You want people to stay where they are, and continue to listen to lies.  You too, are in "Babylon".  

 

 Have mercy on those who waver; ²³ save others by snatching them from the fire; have mercy on others but with fear, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh.  Jude 1:20-12

For an individual to stand on the outside, like yourself, and watch a house burn by the fire of God's word, knowing that there are people inside, shows that the person's conscience is seared.  (1 Tim 4:1,2)  You expect them to show submission to men of  your "fortress", while the fortress is under attack because of the men in charge?  

 

Amos 5  tells us to seek God and pursue righteousness; not remain passive, quiet and fearful of men who lord it over the oppressed. Otherwise, we go down with the fortress that men have built.   https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Amos+5&version=ESV

 

 

 

 

[Witness]

2 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

You say this now, but your last response you did not bother to say tha

I'm sorry you couldn't put two and two together!  And I have no clue who Betsy is.

 

2 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

To accept the thought of being fed comforting lies instead of an unpleasant truth, speaks volume.

I knew you would shred the topic to pieces.  Do you know who Paul Gillies is?  

You might want to chew on the link if you haven't already seen it.  I refuse to go any further about what you're trying to accuse me of.  If I post a video here, it doesn't mean that I am best buddies with the person who made it.  I post the video because of information within it that I feel could be useful for someone else to hear.  

un-correspondence-bates-gilles.pdf

[Space Merchant]

1 hour ago, Witness said:

I'm sorry you couldn't put two and two together!  And I have no clue who Betsy is.

You disregarded your last response (as seen here, so you had no problem speaking on your own behalf), the fact that I said this two and two was put together. Betsy is the editor of the UN article piece related to the UN. So that is concerning because, not only to believed said article, you were not aware of who wrote it and or has involvement.

1 hour ago, Witness said:

I knew you would shred the topic to pieces.

Speaking truth isn't about shredding things. Both of us have to be truthful of things as Christians. Apply the Scriptures, especially the ones you quote.

1 hour ago, Witness said:

Do you know who Paul Gilles is?  

Yes, I am familiar, in fact, our originally discussion, I mentioned this PDF. But clearly we do not see anywhere of a registration charter or the Criteria met to even attest to that. DPI dropping does not prove the claims you adhere to.

This is one of my quotes in relation:

On 12/16/2018 at 12:18 AM, Space Merchant said:

@Witness This has already been debunked, any NGO that is associated with the UN will have met the criteria, they would also have an ECOSCO and or an equivalent as a sponsor.

Clearly in the early days I was a bit critical, not so much today.

1 hour ago, Witness said:

You might want to chew on the link if you haven't already seen it.

If I am aware of it, I would not have gave question to a charter registration many times before, as is the difference between a DPI and a EOSOC  whereas only one has legitimate association with the UN. Srecko brought this up too a while back, same situation as well as the infamous Trinitarian who self revives himself from time to time.

1 hour ago, Witness said:

I refuse to go any further about what you're trying to accuse me of. 

It is not so much of an accusation, but mentioned so you yourself do not fall victim to the MSM, which you continue to do so on a daily basis. If this is an ongoing problem with you, it is a sign you will not fair well when Babylon makes major moves instead of the minor ones. You were already seen as to believe feministic ideologies that conflate with the Bible.

Anything paradigm related tends to get the best of many people, you evidently, even some JWs apparently.

1 hour ago, Witness said:

If I post a video here, it doesn't mean that I am best buddies with the person who made it. 

But there are videos and articles you tend to post here whereas often times you shed support. Some instances where you did not realize what is said in the video that contradicts with some things you often say or some other report, even for interpterion where you did have some hiccups but pressed it as a truth.

If we remove JWs from the equation, even Pearl, you tend to confuse some notions even regarding the Bible, like what you said on here to some people.

All of us here, have to evaluate the information we are getting, know what it is before putting it somewhere or vocally saying it. To say something wrong or misleading, will often times draw people in with truth of the matter to speak up.

Jesus always spoke truth, as his his followers, although they themselves are imperfect. You often quote verses concerning speaking the truth, perhaps this time apply it.

1 hour ago, Witness said:

I post the video because of information within it that I feel could be useful for someone else to hear.  

But you still have to know what the video, link or article is about before you post it, know what it is about, validate if it is true or not. A video from a guy who believes somehow JWs have sex rings in all their churches, and believes that things in the Bible concerning Revelations is like wishing death on people (which is a direct hit on everyone of us, even you who reads the Bible), is very very concerning, and we cannot forget the Atheists stuff too, which I warned you, but you continue.

Everyone should be very careful of everything they see or hear. Proverbs 14:15 reminds us that naive people will literally believe every word they hear and everything they see, but the latter, wise persons, they ponder on every step. It also said in the Hebrew text that, Exodus 23:1, we should not be making attempts to spread information that is not true.

Outside of faith, as a person I am anti-agenda, conspiracy, falsehoods, etc. even to a degree, this is the case culturally. As is most who are aware, regardless of their upbringing.

This goes for everyone, even JWs, granted, they tend to fall victim, mainly the ones who are unaware, to the MSM also, for example, The Proxy War in Ukraine, and recent events. Misinformation resulted in them losing some of their own to legitimate affiliates of Babylon, for example, @AnnaNana mentioned Robert King, who in turn, is connected with the various religious movements I talked about for years. This is the same case here, concerning the UN when anyone can see what is a DPI and a ECOSOC, as is with ARC, most EXJWs will bring up ARC to the unaware, but JWs and EXJWs who know about ARC fully, such as who the professor who spoke is, would speak otherwise, in the EXJW case, they'll get attacked for it (you even attacked direct  comments of EXJWs in the past), hence the breakdown of the community; which often times result in things like Washington DC attempt, which, knowing the interworkings of what transpired in the US via protesting, will not fair well for them, especially if they're trying to get Democrats involved, who are, at most, in opposition with notions from the Bible, hate speech, as they say.

I said it before, when I was critical with most, you could be doing better, but you refuse to do so and remain misguided, you do not even see the Commission as serious either, which is concerning whenever that is brought up. In addition to that, start thinking rationally and critically for yourself, what amazes me is you rarely address things of your own accord, it is always latched on to someone else. If unable to think prevents ample research, therein lies a problem.

That being said, no charter registration exists concerning the UN, ARC can trick people who listen to commentary instead of what ARC actually addressed, and lastly, when it comes to translations, earlier sources are far more reliable than later sources, but KJV-Onlyist has tricked people, even EXJWS, whom apparently has become their puppet for the thins to come.

 

Forgot about these, the images below you told me to read it because the charter registration was there.... At the time I read it, even now, it remains unfounded. So we know what General Assembly Resolution 13 is. Charter Registrations have numerous signatures and shows affiliated notions linked with some criteria and articles.

FACT: ECOSOC accreditation is separate and distinct from NGOs who are associated the UN Department of Public Information (DPI)

[Guest]

For @Witness:

 

Revelation 18

 

"Babylon the Great" is not a literal physical place. 

 

"After this I saw another angel descending from heaven with great authority, and the earth was illuminated by his glory.  And he cried out with a strong voice, saying: “She has fallen! Babylon the Great has fallen, and she has become a dwelling place of demons and a place where every unclean spirit and every unclean and hated bird lurks!  For because of the wine of the passion of her sexual immorality, all the nations have fallen victim, and the kings of the earth committed sexual immorality with her, and the merchants of the earth became rich owing to the power of her shameless luxury."

 

"Babylon the Great" is not the same as the figurative "apostate Israel". "Babylon the Great" never had an origin with true worship. She was a prostitute from her beginning. "Apostate Israel" did have an honest beginning, but she later prostituted herself. There is a difference.

 

"Apostate Israel" will be cleansed. "Babylon the Great" will be destroyed.

 

The literal nation of Babylon is where the Jews left. The literal nation of Israel is where they went to.

 

In Zechariah's vision, angels are depicted as taking "Wickedness" out of Israel and depositing her in Babylon (Shinar) "where she belongs."

 

Jesus said when the Son of man comes he will send out his angels to remove the weeds and they will be outside the organization. That hasn't happened yet.

 

@Witness, you are confusing "Babylon the Great" with "Apostate Israel". "Apostate Israel" imitates practices of Babylon. "Apostate Israel" looks a lot like Jezebel, who was a queen in Israel but used the ways of Babylonish religion. Jesus said in Revelation that all the Jezebels would be removed and her children. ("Jezebel" is a man or a woman who commits spiritual prostitution and misuses their authority to bear false witness against true worshippers. "Jezebel" disfellowships/kills true worshippers from the congregation.)

 

"And I heard another voice out of heaven say: “Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues.  For her sins have massed together clear up to heaven, and God has called her acts of injustice to mind.  Repay her in the way she treated others, yes, pay her back double for the things she has done; in the cup she has mixed, mix a double portion for her.  To the extent that she glorified herself and lived in shameless luxury, to that extent give her torment and mourning. For she keeps saying in her heart: ‘I sit as queen, and I am not a widow, and I will never see mourning.’  That is why in one day her plagues will come, death and mourning and famine, and she will be completely burned with fire, because Jehovah God, who judged her, is strong."

 

This prophecy in Revelation is not talking specifically about "Apostate Israel". There are other prophecies about that in the Bible. This prophecy in Revelation 18 is talking about all false religion.

 

Since false religion is not a "place" it's a "practice", it's not literal buildings and literal places so much as practices a person needs to flee from. If a church practices "speaking in tongues" or "visions" which are demonic then of course a person should flee from that organization in harmony with Paul's letters. But if a person did "flee" from that organization and still did the bad practices on their own at home, have they really "fled" from Babylon the Great? No.

 

Individuals in the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses who practice, either at home or in the congregation arrangement, things that are from Babylon the Great will be taken out, as recorded in Zechariah's vision.

 

From what you have said, Pearl Doxsey's sect practices "visions". You need to flee from Babylon the Great, @Witness. You are not in a good position right now.

 

Praise Jehovah.

[Space Merchant]

@AnnaNana I rarely give opinions, but I personally believe if Witness wanted to, she'd actually critical think and do things accordingly. Whether she is JW or not, Biblically, you have to be obligated to what is true vs what is false, as a Christian. Clearly her, or anyone who had seen this letter acknowledged misinformation, and could have easily helped the woman out, but they did not even think to do so. I am also glad you brought up the whole visions thing, because if anyone is aware of that and learning what the Bible says, will see there is a problem, this goes for other things too.

It is understood by all, that all institutions have their issues, including Jehovah's Witnesses, but at the same time, one should not fall for any falsehoods at the same time. Just from observation alone, because of this, this is why JWs, even their religious leaders, are hyper vigilant on anyone deemed apostates, if ARC and the UN stuff can be twisted, even with a political aspect added to it, then that is concerning.

[Witness]

12 minutes ago, AnnaNana said:

Babylon the Great" is not a literal physical place. 

I never said it was. It is a covenant of death, which I told you is described in Isa 28:14-19.

 

15 minutes ago, AnnaNana said:

@Witness, you are confusing "Babylon the Great" with "Apostate Israel". "Apostate Israel" imitates practices of Babylon. 

When we leave the covenant of life in Christ and accept "false prophets, false christs" to teach us, haven't we left the promise of eternal life in Christ. We have become apostate to God's teachings when we enter a new covenant.  The covenant of death, which is symbolized in the symbolic book of Revelation is "Babylon", the opposite of the covenant of life.  

[Guest]

I know @Witness has been very hurt. It's hard for people to think critically when they are hurt. Jehovah can fix it, but in the meantime it is important to clarify when truths have been twisted because it is not good to mislead others into darkness. Pearl's teachings are misleading because they are twisted. I don't think she means to mislead, but it is dangerous nonetheless. Jesus said we need to teach the truth. God's Word is true.

 

@Witness, Compare and contrast:

 

"And I heard another voice out of heaven say: “Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues."

 

vs:

 

"“‘Nevertheless, I do hold this against you, that you tolerate that woman Jezʹe·bel, who calls herself a prophetess, and she teaches and misleads my slaves to commit sexual immorality and to eat things sacrificed to idols.  And I gave her time to repent, but she is not willing to repent of her sexual immorality.  Look! I am about to throw her into a sickbed, and those committing adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of her deeds.  And I will kill her children with deadly plague, so that all the congregations will know that I am the one who searches the innermost thoughts and hearts, and I will give to you individually according to your deeds. However, I say to the rest of you who are in Thy·a·tiʹra, all those who do not follow this teaching, those who did not get to know the so-called “deep things of Satan”: I am not putting on you any other burden. Just the same, hold fast to what you have until I come."

 

The first verse, direction to flee, is regarding "Babylon the Great".

 

The second set of verses, direction to stay, is regarding those in the organization.

 

The first verse is showing Jesus will plague all individuals who do things in a Babylonish way, both inside and outside the organization.

 

The second verse is showing that faithful ones in the organization need to "hold fast what you have", NOT FLEE the congregation. Jesus says he will remove the Jezebel-like elements and their wicked offspring who are in the congregations.

 

There is a difference.

 

Flee from wicked ways. Stay in the congregation. It's not complicated.

 

"Pay attention to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the holy spirit has appointed you overseers, to shepherd the congregation of God, which he purchased with the blood of his own Son.  I know that after my going away oppressive wolves will enter in among you and will not treat the flock with tenderness,  and from among you yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves."

 

The Bible shows there would be an organization congregation. The Bible also shows it would have bad guys in it. 

 

Jehovah's name is on the organization. Jesus name is the guarantee. "Jehovah is Salvation". Jehovah will clear His name of reproach when He cleans and saves His name people.

 

Jehovah will Sanctify His Holy Name.

[Witness]

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

It is not so much of an accusation, but mentioned so you yourself do not fall victim to the MSM, which you continue to do so on a daily basis

On a "daily basis" I am concerned about the people in the Wt. Thank you for your warning, but I'll be okay with whatever you're talking about.

21 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

I rarely give opinions,

But your opinion is, among many opinions expressed  on the days that you are here, is that I can do better.  I think we can all do better, even you SM.   

As long as I keep listening to Christ, I hope to do better. 🙂

[Moise Racette]

5 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Ok. But the whole UN narrative is they are confusing DPIs with EOSOC to deem the faith community part of the UN. The fact that this is constantly pushed and to now, no one speaks truth about it, shows that the notion of lies being made a truth is to be pushed, that is agenda driven.

Perhaps that's a world view. The only agenda for the Watchtower as a DPI was initially to gain access to the UN library, nothing more. The fact the Watchtower had to register under UN law as an NGO has no political implication. That is a more opinion-driven agenda. I agree, there are misguided witnesses here that think along the same line, but their opinions don't matter, much less the opinions of former members.

5 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Indeed, I do this too in regards to prophecy, but also I remind vigilant and ready. Some of these foolish politicians will fool people, as with the Beast and Babylon, even concerning them, I constantly am vigilant towards them.

This has scriptural backing minus the political view. I agree on being alert to the conditions of the world, just not the politics of the world. We can add such things as earthquakes, famine, drought, disease, the deterioration of humanity, etc. These are the signs scripture speaks of, and what a true Christian should be vigilant over, not what goes on with politics.

[Witness]

30 minutes ago, AnnaNana said:

unless they repent of her deeds.  And

Did you notice that those who are listening to Jezebel become adulterers as well?  They are sharing in her sins just as Revelation 18:4-8 gives warning of.  You can't repent of spiritual immorality, unless you escape/flee from  the spiritual harlot.  

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs 2&version=NKJV

[Moise Racette]

34 minutes ago, Witness said:

When we leave the covenant of life in Christ and accept "false prophets, false christs" to teach us, haven't we left the promise of eternal life in Christ. We have become apostate to God's teachings when we enter a new covenant.  The covenant of death

Interesting thought. Why hasn't it sunk in for apostates here, as a new covenant against Christ teachings out of spite, anger, and hate?

[Moise Racette]

37 minutes ago, AnnaNana said:

I know @Witness has been very hurt. It's hard for people to think critically when they are hurt. Jehovah can fix it, but in the meantime it is important to clarify when truths have been twisted because it is not good to mislead others into darkness. Pearl's teachings are misleading because they are twisted.

What's your excuse? You think along the same lines in many ways. You are preaching your own gospel, not Christ.