Malawi and MCP Cards?

[Many Miles]

1 hour ago, Anna said:

Doctors cannot promise a cure, only perhaps a prolongment of life.

Dying is still the leading cause of death. From the day a person's born, the most any medical doctor can do is help prolong the individual's life and quality of life.

When life is lost over something concocted, called "a religious position," maintained despite solid refutation, and then it's double-downed on by threat of being cut off from family and life-long friends should you honestly opt to do the right thing, then morphs through multiple iterations, then conceals critical options (e.g., cryosupernatant plasma for plasma exchange therapy!), it goes through underpinnings like changing socks, then something's wrong.

Yes, I'm completely aware probably the majority of HLC members (if not every single one of them!) are relieved when treatment of young children is left for competent doctors to decide the best treatment options without interference by family during emergencies.

In the post Bethany Hughes medical system we find institutions like SickKids In Toronto, Canada who, with full support of the society, have developed a special letter of understanding available to parents with minor children in the medical system.

This is a document that is signed by treating doctors and the child's parents and is "TO BE PLACED IN THE FRONT OF THE CHART". (Upper case in original document) The primary language reads:

"In an emergency, where your child is apparently experiencing severe suffering or is at risk, if the treatment is not administered promptly, of sustaining serious bodily harm, medical staff will provide treatment that is allowed by the law, which may include blood transfusion."

This document was put together just for JWs, and it was drafted with full support from the society's hospital information services department. When JW parents have minor children in other hospitals HLC members have initiated inquiries as to whether the institution has such a letter of understanding, and if they do not would they consider using one.

Now why would such an initiative be made if not for 1) wanting the child to live and 2) keeping the matter out of the courts and hence under the radar of publicity? What does the initiative to create and then execute such a document say about how devoted the society is to its religious position?

[Many Miles]

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Mine too. Maybe if I had the experiences you report I would feel as you do. I have had calamity in my life, but not that one.

Thank you TrueTomHarley.

All I can say is the cuts have been more than one, and each one is deep. Though I can and do engage in many topics, this one stirs from the bottom of wounds too many of us have had to face. And too often we try to rationalize what has happened by looking at everything except the center of it all, which is a religious position that cannot stand up in the face of basic challenges, and in fact is self-condemning based on premises offered in its support.

[Pudgy]

The reason it is self-condemning is because it is no longer about the sacredness of blood … it’s about the sacredness of money.

[Pudgy]

I think many people here would agree with the proposition that the Church of Covid for two years became the world’s fastest growing religion.

Instead of a cross or a star of David it was the mask that identified its believers.

My wife and I did not join that Church, did not wear masks except where required to get in a building, and did not take shots or boosters.

The fanaticism was rampant, and my wife was fired from her teaching job as she refused to be part of a school Covid research project.

She was treated like an anti- health dangerous criminal and cried a lot about it. I barely noticed.

We did wear masks to the KH when it opened up again, not because it was reasonable or rational, because it wasn’t … but because it was almost no trouble, and we had gotten used to masks at the Golden Corral, as well as those silly blue plastic gloves on one hand.

Covid is airborne. Covid on your hands is digestable.

So … what if …. what if wearing masks actually INCREASED your risk of infection …. hmmmm?

Do you blame the Governments, the Church of Covid, the School Boards, or … who? for increased unnecessary sicknesses and cripplings, and deaths?

Ya gotta blame SOMEBODY!

Or … you improvise, adapt, and overcome the basic limitation … if you can … that all living things are subject to:

”STUFF HAPPENS”

Sometimes getting sucker punched kills you … sometimes you loose a few teeth … and sometimes it’s a swoosh and a miss.

”STUFF HAPPENS”

That’s the way the real world works. If you are stupid, it tries to kill you. 

This is known as … ”normal”

That’s why I like Indiana Jones Movies …. when the Nazis make their appearance, nobody has to explain the plot to me.

We all take turns standing up for rightous principles, and we all take turns being unbelievably stupid.

I cracked up when i learned the President’s wife, Jill Biden, a card carrying, mask wearing  member of the Church of Covid, with three covid shots snd two booster shots, got covid TWICE!

Like being crushed by a toppled cast iron statue in the lobby, I appreciate irony.

 

[Pudgy]

Children (… and adults, giraffes and earthworms) die for literally tens of thousands of reasons.

Do you think that a child who dies for sake of rightousness … trying to respect and obey God and Christ … even if wrong … will not be resurrected to eternal life?

BOTH ABRAHAM AND ISAAC SET THE EXAMPLE.

 

[Anna]

6 minutes ago, Pudgy said:

 a child who dies for sake of rightousness … trying to respect and obey God and Christ … even if wrong … will not be resurrected to eternal life?

BOTH ABRAHAM AND ISAAC SET THE EXAMPLE.

And there you have it. In a nutshell.

[Many Miles]

12 minutes ago, Anna said:

And there you have it. In a nutshell.

Any person who sacrifices their life under an honest impression that what they are doing is right, has done nothing wrong insofar as I can tell.

However, if someone taught the basis for that sacrifice and that basis is false (or unsound), then there is accounting to be held for the teacher. If you're going to teach a certain thing (notion) is worthy of sacrificing life over, you better be right in your teaching. Moreover, if in any way that teacher learns the teaching is false (or unsound in any way!) and continues teaching it nevertheless, the bloodguilt goes from bad to worse.

[Juan Rivera]

2 hours ago, Many Miles said:

Thank you TrueTomHarley.

All I can say is the cuts have been more than one, and each one is deep. Though I can and do engage in many topics, this one stirs from the bottom of wounds too many of us have had to face. And too often we try to rationalize what has happened by looking at everything except the center of it all, which is a religious position that cannot stand up in the face of basic challenges, and in fact is self-condemning based on premises offered in its support.

@Many Miles I'm reading thru the forums comments and catching up on the conversation you started on the other thread. So far these statements by @JW Insider has put things on a different light for me.

On 3/8/2017 at 2:03 PM, JW Insider said:

I have always thought of Brother Smalley as the "father of the fractions doctrine." So he would be the perfect person to ask. But the persons I asked are both well known at Bethel, and one of them has even been mentioned in the publications as early as the 1970's. My obvious question was, "Well, if he doesn't believe in it, then why does he still defend it?" Both of the persons I asked gave me the same answer, even though I asked them separately. (Although one could have been repeating the answer they heard from the other.) The answer, paraphrased:

Even though he doesn't believe in it, he still defended it because of all the persons who have died.

 

On 3/9/2017 at 5:16 AM, JW Insider said:

Maybe. I understood it in the sense that he doesn't want to minimize a person's sacrifice, or make it seem like it was all for nothing. A "good" U.S. politician won't speak out against the war in Afghanistan if he is speaking directly to "gold-star" parents of someone who died in that war.

But this information regarding Smalley could still be wrong. Perhaps it could be based on someone misunderstanding something he said. Perhaps it was over something he said in grief or anger.

It's also possible, I'm just guessing, that he believes very strongly in the previous stricter blood doctrine and regrets how far the "slippery slope" of "fractions" has taken us away from that original stance.

And I suppose then that it's also possible (based on the mention of the year 1992), that if he really had rejected the original stricter blood doctrine, that he realized that more lives could be saved if he at least promoted a "watering down" of that doctrine by suggesting that "fractions" could be allowed.

It's also true that, in spite of his influence on the progression of this doctrine, this is merely a personal view that shouldn't matter to any of us, and it is just his own conscience speaking. We don't live by the conscience of another person: "To his own master he stands or falls." - Romans 14:4.

 

On 3/11/2017 at 10:24 PM, JW Insider said:

I think Melinda is rightly concerned that this does not turn into the kind of discussion that creates doubts that we are not ready to face, and I thought about that before posting in the first place, but made a decision to go ahead based on some of the very scriptural passages Melinda quoted. If I feel up to it, I might explain tonight or tomorrow, if I get a chance.

Hard to imagine him (Gene) diverging from the Society's view in any way. He was one of those who would not have varied from Watchtower doctrine by one iota back when the chronology doctrines were being questioned by many of his department colleagues. My close friends know my own feelings about chronology and the "doubled generation," but on the blood issue, the ones I contacted only knew that I had a couple questions about fractions. (Especially cryosupernatant. Although yesterday I just got the definitive answer to that one without contacting Brother Smalley.)

If I had to offer a best guess, I'd say the problem for Brother Smalley was exactly what JTR is showing in the cartoon above  (posted 3/9/17 9:55am EST). Remember, however, that this info about someone's personal beliefs is second-hand info, somewhere between advice and gossip. Even if true at one time, it might not be true at the moment. People change. But I wouldn't have put his name here if I didn't think this was an extremely serious matter that needs an explanation. Since this is really about life and death, then I think we all deserve more transparency. (Just as I think we need more transparency on the thinking that went into the doubled generation, child abuse procedures, etc.)

But I also have the impression that this now goes well beyond fractions and reaches another level (for Gene): that no one should have ever died unnecessarily over this doctrine. I can see how doubting fractions could lead to the latter view more easily than the latter view leading to the fractions doctrine. However, when I got the final answer to cryosupernatant an entirely new and very plausible explanation of his view just occurred to me. It's a bit complex to explain, however.

 

 

 

[Anna]

12 minutes ago, Many Miles said:

then there is accounting to be held for the teacher

Yes. No doubt about that.

"Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, knowing that we will receive heavier judgment."

"But the one who did not understand and yet did things deserving of strokes will be beaten with few. Indeed, everyone to whom much was given, much will be demanded of him, and the one who was put in charge of much will have more than usual demanded of him".

 

[Anna]

It seems that Cryosupernatant Plasma is not a "cure all".

In the document bellow it mentions it is not to be used as volume replacement, one of the biggest reasons for blood transfusions, especially during traumatic blood loss. 

wf-lab-apl-form-cryosupernatant-plasma.pdf

And this bit is also quite scary:

https://www.rdm.ox.ac.uk/publications/190785

 

 

[Many Miles]

44 minutes ago, Anna said:

It seems that Cryosupernatant Plasma is not a "cure all".

In the document bellow it mentions it is not to be used as volume replacement, one of the biggest reasons for blood transfusions, especially during traumatic blood loss. 

Cryosupernatant plasma is not, never has been, and will never be viewed as a "cure all" by anyone in the medical field. Because it's not. There is a very good reason why the product is not used as a simple volume expander; there are much safer alternatives than a product rendered from blood.

A primary use of cryosupernantant plasma is for plasma exchange therapy for patients suffering Thrombotic Thrombocytopenia Purpura (TTP).

In trauma cases with massive blood loss volume is important, but oxygen delivery is the primary thing. (Having efficient volume allows oxygen transport to tissue, but you must have sufficient red cells to transport enough oxygen to maintain tissue viability and function) Without sufficient oxygen tissue dies, and at some point that failure becomes an irreversible cascading event leading to death.

[Many Miles]

2 hours ago, Juan Rivera said:

@Many Miles I'm reading thru the forums comments and catching up on the conversation you started on the other thread. So far these statements by @JW Insider has put things on a different light for me.

My piece of advice: Conduct your own thorough research in order to draw a conclusion worthy of being owned by you. You have to know your own capabilities and limitations, but don't let other people think for you if you can help it. There are folks with passions, and there are folks with biases, and there are outright charlatans too. Of course, there are unbiased experts. But you have to dig to make sure whatever information you gather is viable, and then you have to make sure whatever you deduce from that information is done soundly.