Dmitar

15 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

The trial should be conducted only by "saints".

Are there enough "saints"? Who declares someone as "saint"? Is there a numerical limit to the number of people who can be “saints”?
WTJWorg has doctrines, with which it would be difficult to solve these dilemmas.

Wow! You've been hanging around here too long. Go back to basics and relearn scripture.

NIV Acts 6:1-5

6 In those days when the number of disciples was increasing, the Grecian Jews among them complained against the Hebraic Jews because their widows were being overlooked in the daily distribution of food. 2 So the Twelve gathered all the disciples together and said, "It would not be right for us to neglect the ministry of the word of God in order to wait on tables. 3 Brothers, choose seven men from among you who are known to be full of the Spirit and wisdom. We will turn this responsibility over to them 4 and will give our attention to prayer and the ministry of the word."

5 This proposal pleased the whole group.

3 hours ago, Kick_Faceinator said:

Exactly, going by the Bible’s standards if nothing can change your brother or sisters stance on their sin by speaking to them in private or by having two or three go along with you yet they still don’t change, you’re then supposed to tell it to the whole church. The whole church would include women participating in the judicial process:

Is that how it worked for you? 😂

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I don’t understand why you oppose the idea of women (JW women) participating in the survey and judicial process?

Ask God? Don't interpret scripture like those obtuse people like, @Pudgy and @Kick_Faceinator even though that fool should know, I already know who he is. 😂

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

WTJWorg tries to retain the right of men to be spiritual leaders and to govern the Words of the Bible based on some biblical passages.

Once again, you challenge God. This will be the last time I'm posting this. I hope you don't take it the wrong way, But, I hope never to be near you. 😥

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

But on the basis of which biblical passages can women be forbidden to participate in investigative / forensic and judicial proceedings when it comes to CRIME? Or is it about SPIRITUAL CRIME when it comes to CSA and other abuses? Absurdity.

Since you are refusing to see the difference between a judicial committee and a secular branch of office, for, all I care, anyone can listen in, argue, and make unfounded allegations, lie, cheat, to that secular office. 

They just need to be wise, since a false police report carries consequences. Lying to the police carries consequences. Make a false allegation is punishable. I'm not saying the others aren't, it just depends on the level of that deception.

For instance, If @Patiently waiting for Truth went to a police station with "hearsay" evidence and added more ignorance to that report, the Watchtower has the right to see him imprisoned for being a fool. Now I'm not saying if the Watchtower really wanted to into his obtuse post, they have enough to send him to jail right now with his accusations and threats. Will @Pudgy, @Witness have the ability to defend him?

But, you should ask @Pudgy how the secular process works. Ask him how many times he tried to falsify make claims in order for the secular authority, wouldn't take his computer. 

God prefers the truth.

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

So isn't SM promoting the same/similar, because from what he has written about himself so far, it could be concluded that his non-belonging to the "church" expresses independence from any established religious system.

Possibly, but what does that have to do with @Patiently waiting for Truth, dealing with his deception and word twisting the way you are doing?

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

He advocates exclusivity for the Order based on Scripture. But he excludes his affiliation with the church/churches. Although every (christian) church is called to exist on the foundations of the Order of the Bible (Christian Order)

Well, that's your, @Patiently waiting for Truth, @Space Merchant, and @Witness interpretation of scripture. Like I said, I don't bother with such misrepresentations of scripture. You should know by now, I call out "all" false assertions coming from either, JWs, ExJWs and none JWs.

Don't you read the hilarious comments about me by @Thinking, @TrueTomHarley and others, that want me banned?  They can't stand a person telling the truth, here. Where were you when @Space Merchant made a bad mistake by, calling me misguided where he was set in his place, even though he thinks he won a factitious debate.

39 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

You seem to have shown SM what is, how it looks and where he can find the true and real Christian Order.

Anyone that follows Christ instructions and obeys God's commands can find a real Christian order. Those that do the same, are in unison with Christ.

42 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

We need to start dealing with different terminological terms when describing and analyzing our own and others ’actions/words. We must stop claiming that we know the difference between a perfect man and an imperfect man.
If we are imperfect as we are, on what basis do we know what is like and what is the difference from the perfect? Based on speculation and interpretation, obviously.

So, you're telling God how to think now! I believe you just answered your own question about being in a sinful state of mind. The word imperfection is synonymous with SIN. All the human race is imperfect (sinful).

Besides Jesus; give another example of a perfect human being?

Therefore. @Arauna should clarify her commentary, or did just do it.

25 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Interestingly, the word “imperfect,” as far as I have seen, is not found in the Bible at all. But we can find the term “perfect” that binds not only to God but also applies to humans.

Wow! So, you're looking for specific words now, in order for you to believe! 

What do you think about the context and intent are with the words "righteous" and "unrighteous" mean?

3 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

A. My suggestion wasn't related to the ARC. B. I never suggested that women should be given any authority. 

So you are wrong on both counts. 

That's funny since the ARC said the same thing. Maybe you just forgot where you got the idea from. Age does that to the elderly.

3 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

But you seem quite happy for a group of Elders to bully and interrogate young children. You also seem quite happy for Elders to hide Pedophiles in congregations too. 

Let's not make about me, since you are the one making false accusations about that institution.

3 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Some sort of 'Christian' are you ?  No love, no respect, no mercy. 

I have compassion for True Christians. I don't bother with fake ones or apostates.

Ephesians 5:6-9

New Century Version

6 Do not let anyone fool you by telling you things that are not true, because these things will bring God’s anger on those who do not obey him. 7 So have nothing to do with them. 8 In the past you were full of darkness, but now you are full of light in the Lord. So live like children who belong to the light. 9 Light brings every kind of goodness, right living, and truth.

3 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

I keep reading these words 'the EX JW community'.    Are you saying there is an Ex JW  'organisation' or 'congregation' ?

Yeah, there are several. Didn't you state you visit Facebook? You should look them up and join.

https://www.facebook.com/BrotherPoohBear/

http://www.evidenceministries.org/jehovahs-witnesses/jw-support-group/

https://www.4jehovah.org/how-can-i-as-an-ex-jehovahs-witness-find-a-place-to-worship-outside-of-the-watchtower/

You and @Witness would make a perfect addition to your apostate friends.

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

I have a feeling that the reason Ditmar referenced me with respect to this particular topic is because he recognizes the problems of these minor issues but he believes they are major, and therefore must somehow try to defend against them by making it appear they are just hearsay, not claims found in the WT publications themselves.  

Let's be honest with a none, JW. This is a false take on your commentary. We both know why you criticize Russell and the Bible Students. You made your past comments about the Pastor a major topic that it even made it to the apostate site AD1914. So, don't try to wiggle your way out by blaming me.

JWINSIDER #001: ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view

This site now has permission to reprint various postings and articles from JWFacts, JWStudies, JWInsider, and several others.

However, I wouldn't praise your Bible Student connection. He's about as useless as B. W. Schulz

2 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

This is not correct. I actually believe that the True Anointed Remnant, Earth wide, will be used by YHWH through Yeshua, to guide true Christians.  It is true that I do not follow any 'Leader' right now, but i do believe the scriptute of 'ten men clinging to the robe of a (spiritual) Jew'. 

Then, how is this not correct? Where are these so called 10 men that you would follow? Are you suggesting those that are selected by God don't have your approval? That's quite a challenge. 😏

2 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

I have read that Russell did not think an 'organisation' was necessary. And I have read that in Russell's time each congregation was separate but with the same desire to serve YHWH through Yeshua.  

So, you think the churches of this institution should be separate like the Unitarians that you thought it was funny, with your emoji. 

You should reread Paul's letters to the churches when they stopped listening to God, and had become independent? A reason why Rutherford decided to return the unity in our institution?

2 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Harping back to the 1st Century Apostles as an example of a pretend 'governing body' is rather irrelevant because the area they covered was very small when compared to the whole Earth.

How is the great commission, irrelevant?

3 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

In our modern day Earth, each country or area is so different that 8 men in America, that are not inspired of Holy Spirit, cannot possibly understand the situations of all Christians. 

Have you heard of a little thing called communication? How does the Vatican know what's going on within their churches?

3 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

But in truth there is only one that can 'lead us to YHWH', that is Yeshua / Jesus Christ.

So, you don't think Jesus is the head of his church through the Watchtower. Can you explain this?

3 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Yes indeed, JWs are persecuted for being Pedophiles, persecuted for dishonest teachings, persecuted for their lack of love and lack of mercy.  Persecuted for crying wolf about Armageddon. JWs bring no honour to anyone. 

Come! Come! Now, your slip is showing. 😉 

Let's not compare your personal feelings; it doesn't make for a justifiable argument as a former JW full of bitterness and deception.😏

1 hour ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Now concerning the JW org, I do think that women could be used to comfort other women and to comfort children when a woman or child is being interrogated by the Elders.. 

Oh! Taken out of the ARC playbook, how quaint! But, I guess you missed the point; that hypocritical court was implying, they want the Watchtower to give women the authority of an Elder to "interrogate" the children or women, themselves. 

In other words, the ARC is suggesting the Watchtower go against God's inspired word in those situations. Funny, when it comes to the Australian government policing themselves by making whistleblowing a crime, such as it did with their immigration detention centers, the ARC court had no problem with it. 😏

7 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

Granted you just mentioned your Facebook issue of spreading the message, you can do your part in helping others to prevent abuse by teaching them - reach one, teach one.

How does his false claims and manipulation help people? I have to disagree with your insinuation here. 😏

6 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

This is known, but concerning the Pastor, I believe JWI is aware of this, I recall even at one point he attempted to contact Reslight (also called Reslite by some) who is a Bible Student who knows a lot about Russell. Although he disagrees with JWs on some things, anything regarding the Bible Students he will defend, but even in Reslight's case, EXJWs come after him, as do the Trinitarians, likewise with Oneness believers.

 

This is why I don't support people, including @JW Insider, and any other JW when it comes to false claims that lead to deception. I also have a True Bible Student as an acquaintance that is well versed in the Bible Student History. I'd say he has better knowledge than others, but he refuses to publish. As he stated, that's not part of God's plan, publishing spiritual food is. That should give sad people like @TrueTomHarley a clue.

24 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

I do not believe that women should be 'leaders' in a True Christian congregation. 

No, but you do promote there should be no leaders, or that everyone should be their own leader, like @Witness? Just like she confuses the word "oneness" so do you. 😏

7 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Oh you must mean the pedophile Elders and M/servants then.  The ones that interrogate young children to frighten them from going to the police. Your so called 'church' is already in disgrace earthwide. 

Why don't you ask your friend @Pudgy? He has personal experience with such matters. On the latter, the ones that are disgraced worldwide are ExJWs. 😁

You and witness seem to forget, JWs are the most persecuted earth wide; a complement to the apostles and Christ.

4 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Regarding the situation with 1914, the Pastor of Bible Students never made claim to being a Prophet Inspired. So much so Reslight, who studied the Bible Students, being one himself, gave ample information on this matter, as did the people of CSE and to credit, even the successor of bible Students, the Jehovah's Witnesses. Moreover, you have those who dabble in history.

This doesn't mean Pastor Russell wasn't spirit led. He didn't claim to the "faithful and Wise servant" even though some within his ranks suggested he agreed to it in private. I don't personally bother with "hearsay" to promote an understanding like @JW Insider used to. I refuse to subscribe to deception. This is the confusion I'm talking about that needs clarification. You and witness have a difference of opinion that none of you are particularly correct.

4 hours ago, Witness said:

  It sounds like the work of sorcery, of “lying signs and wonders”, just as 1914 was.

You just made my day, with this hilarious comment, just because the Jews were freed, and WW 1 started in that specific year, in 1914. I guess you don't have a clue on what it means to be spirit led. 🤣

It's sad that you refute Christ Kingship. 😪

*** w10 9/15 p. 25 par. 16 “Your Leader Is One, the Christ” ***
But Jesus himself indicated that this work would continue into the time of the end. After commissioning his followers to preach and to make disciples among all the nations, Jesus promised them: “I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.” (Matt. 28:19, 20) Since being invested with kingly power in 1914, Christ is more than ever “with” his disciples and active as their Leader.
 

*** w13 7/15 pp. 24-25 pars. 17-18 “Who Really Is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?” ***
What do “all [Jesus’] belongings” include? Jesus did not qualify the word “all,” as if to limit his belongings to earthly things. In fact, Jesus has vast heavenly authority. “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth,” he said. (Matt. 28:18; Eph. 1:20-23) His belongings now include the Messianic Kingdom, which has belonged to him since 1914 and which he will share with his anointed followers.—Rev. 11:15.
18 In view of the foregoing, what can we conclude? When Jesus comes for judgment during the great tribulation, he will find that the faithful slave has been loyally dispensing timely spiritual food to the domestics. Jesus will then delight in making the second appointment—over all his belongings. Those who make up the faithful slave will get this appointment when they receive their heavenly reward, becoming corulers with Christ.
 

What kind of Christian are you to deny the Kingdom of God to others? Better yet, who are you to judge the anointed within the body of Christ?

8 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

It isn't that hard. But the main thing is the idea is to assume all Unitarians are the same.

Agree, however, in our institution, there is no such thing. Unity in Christ is appliable by Christ instruction and God's command. Therefore, there are no divisions or different churches among our ranks.

Now, I'm not talking about people here that disgrace that unity and our Church. I'm referring to loyal and faithful JWs.

2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

They claim how they are not inspired by spirit and they are not infallible but they are guided by the spirit, ............. so it is a guarantee that they can be given complete trust.

Well, with that, there needs to be a correct understanding of their words. So, far there hasn't been any by JWs or ExJWS here. Do you believe the anointed should be inspired by evil? How about; do you believe the anointed are perfect?

That should give you a clue about the words, not inspired and infallible. However, if you believe the anointed should be perfect, then you're the only one. No one on earth, not even Jesus, had that capability. That’s why Jesus was born perfect.

Healing sickness and raising the dead were miracles to prove God's power and ability. Yet, not one of those touch by miracles became perfect, or can you give me an example of a person receiving perfection (sinless state)?

6 hours ago, Witness said:

With exJWs, it is through disfellowshipping, loss of family, and deemed as spiritually dead.

How does applying scripture to disassociate with bad company, not relevant? Now, the latter is what ExJW's bring up as an excuse. There's a difference when family members reject going to a family member's birthday party or get drunk in the nearest bar. Have an adulteress affair because it’s exciting. I'd say a good percentage of ExJWs feel they have missed something out of life for being loyal to God. That's just ignorance in their part. Some seem to forget, by behaving badly, it will get them in the same amount of trouble if NOT more for their bad behavior. It's another thing, having to live with a member that has disgraced him or herself before God. That baloney of silence is exaggerated by the ranks, not reality.

Now, an unrepentant soul is spiritually dead, but under whose eyes also. Who do they need to bow down and ask for forgiveness, if not in front of God, by reaching out to the church that will reestablish their good intentions before God?

If one sins before the Church of Christ, then that sinner needs to be reinstated by the Church of Christ. Oneness doesn't have the same authority as you might think.

6 hours ago, Witness said:

If the GB are truly followers of Jesus Christ, how are they persecuted?

Think about it. Before, it was the millions of ExJWs and now because of those ExJWs, so is the governments of this world. Russia should mean something to you. Just like in Rutherford time. The difference back then, It was the Catholic Church that did the persecution. However, I can also link many Christian denominations with that persecution, not just the Vatican. Even though Pope Francis was pretty harsh when he mentioned, the Catholic Church needed to do more about evangelizing because they were losing too many church members to that heathen church. I guess he forgot to look in the mirror that day. 😂

6 hours ago, Witness said:

They control everyone and everything within in their power.

How is being spokesmen for God, controlling? Since they base everything on scripture, does that mean you are controlling others? How is your power to influence, different, here in this forum?

6 hours ago, Witness said:

They make sure to silence individuals who speak against them.   Those that are persecuted for rejecting THEM and their false doctrine, control no one. 

Have they silenced you? Have they silenced those most harsh critics of the Watchtower? How is the Watchtower administration persecuting ExJWs? Are you confusing spirituality with government sanctions? Any institution has the right to sue for "copyright" violations. Are you suggesting the Watchtower shouldn't sue someone that gives out false impressions about the Watchtower? Where do you stand, when you believe, someone else is giving a false testimony about you? 

When ExJWs are giving out, false interpretation about bible understanding, are you suggesting a True Christian should ignore the bible principles about false prophets? Here, I will include those that pretend to be JWs, also.

I told @Arauna once she was a seasoned Chrsitain, even though her obtuse response was typical of her. Why shouldn't that be applied to you as well. To any thinking person, "seasoned" means "with knowledge."

LOL! You ought to know @Pudgy, that kid is reflected off you. 😂

5 hours ago, Witness said:

The apostles were persecuted because they were true, obedient followers of the teachings of Jesus Christ, and not to the doctrine of men.

So, how do you justify it with the Son of Man, and earlier when the Son of Man was not present?

1 hour ago, Equivocation said:

The gifts of the holy spirit, including that of speaking in tongues, were a temporary provision. The Bible foretold that, as both you and @Arauna had said if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away with; if there are tongues, they will cease. — 1 Corinthians 13:8, Paul's words.

Once again, how will commentators here clarify the difference between "direct" and "indirect" prophecy? There's an assumption being stated here, which is not necessarily correct. 

It's true, the apostles had the ability to preform miracles that no one in modern time has. Did the prophets in the OT have that same ability? Those prophets also had a direct spiritual link, just like the apostles? When the last apostle died, Couldn't a True Christian receive heavenly direction? If not why?

*** nwtsty Matthew Study Notes—Chapter 18 ***
will be things already bound . . . will be things already loosened: The unusual construction of the Greek verbs here (future form of “to be” combined with the perfect passive participle of “bind” and “loosen”) indicates that whatever decision was made by the disciples (“whatever things you may bind”; “whatever things you may loosen”) would be made after the corresponding decision was made in heaven. Any decision made by the disciples would follow heaven’s decision, not precede it, and the disciples would make decisions based on principles already laid down in heaven. It does not refer to heavenly support or validation of a decision made on earth. Instead, it means that the disciples would receive direction from heaven, highlighting the need for such guidance to ensure that the decisions made on earth harmonize with the decision that has already been made in heaven.—Compare study note on Mt 16:19.
 

(Ephesians 4:11, 12) 11 And he gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelizers, some as shepherds and teachers, 12 with a view to the readjustment of the holy ones, for ministerial work, to build up the body of the Christ, 

EVANGELIZER

A preacher of the gospel or good news; a messenger of good. The Greek eu·ag·ge·li·stesʹ (evangelizer) is closely related to the word eu·ag·geʹli·on, “good news” or “gospel.” (See GOOD NEWS; also Na 1:15, ftn; Mt 4:23, ftn.) Jehovah is the Great Evangelizer, or Bringer of good news. After Adam’s fall into sin it was good news to learn, at Genesis 3:15, that there would be a seed to crush the serpent’s head. It gave hope to humankind. (Ro 8:20) Enlarging on the promise of the seed to Abraham, Jehovah declared good news to him. (Ga 3:8