Witness
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1 hour ago, Outta Here said:
It is a good thing anyway to see the Netherlands authorities making some kind of a start to get to grips with this problem.
Which made me curious about the U.S. I am sure it probably already has been brought out here at some point.
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32 minutes ago, Kosonen said:
Some twist the scriptures about the man of sin, the wild beast, the false prophet in Revelation and falsely apply on the WT organization and on the GB, instead of correctly applying those scriptures on political worldy entities, of which some have not even yet shown up.
You mean "some", like myself.
The Pharisees and Sadducees came to test Jesus. So they asked him to show them a miraculous sign from heaven.
2 He responded to them, “In the evening you say that the weather will be fine because the sky is red. 3 And in the morning you say that there will be a storm today because the sky is red and overcast. You can forecast the weather by judging the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times.
4 “Evil and unfaithful people look for a miraculous sign. But the only sign they will be given is that of Jonah.”
Then he left them standing there and went away.
6 Jesus said to them, “Be careful! Watch out for the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees!” Matt 16:1-6
When you look at a loaf of bread, do you see on the outside what may be hidden inside that may have contaminated it, making it unfit to eat? What you are offering as the identities of the wild beast and false prophet is no different than what the majority of the world thinks. It is not hidden, but blatant. Satan is deceitful, working as an angel of light. You know and can perceive the works of lies in the WT under the GB's influence and partnership with its "Beast/organization", (Rev 13) yet you turn away, as do the majority of JWs. Not even child abuse is enough to wake them up.
What will it take? 2 Thess 2:9-12 The "power, signs, and lying wonders" stem from unrighteous DECEPTION" and a "strong DELUSION". It is God's anointed "kings" and the "nations" with them, that are deceived, just as you still are. Rev 13:7;16:12-14 (Rev 1:5; 5:9,10)
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There is a children’s video put out by JW Broadcasting entitled, “Make Jehovah Happy”. After watching it a few times the scene of Jesus tempted by Satan in the wilderness became progressively more disturbing to me. I thought I’d tell you why.
Satan begins by saying, “If you are A son of God, tell these stones to become loaves of bread.” Matt 4:3 NWT The majority of other translations say, “THE Son of God”. Satan obviously knew Jesus was THE Son of God. Is Satan using the Watchtower as his avenue, makes subtle taunting hints disclosing his hatred for Jesus? There is another facet to the NWT’s phrase, “if you are A son of God”, which could refer to the anointed sons of God, and their time of testing “in the wilderness” by Satan. These “living stones” of God’s Temple can only become living “bread”, one loaf with Christ, by relying on every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. John 6:35,33,51; John 8:51; 1 Cor 10:14-17; John 15:4,5,15 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+6%3A35%2C33%2C51%3B+John+8%3A51%3B+1+Cor+10%3A14-17%3B+John+15%3A4%2C5%2C15&version=CSB
Pearl Doxsey:
“God allows all those called to be His sons, to be tried by the devil (Luke22:31,46; Eph.6:12-13; 1Pet.5:8-9; 2Cor.11:3,13-14,4,20;Rev.2:20,10; Col.2:8; Eph.5:6; Matt.24:4; James1:13-14; Job 1:6,8-12,22; 27:6; 13:18; 31:6; James5:10-11) (Rev.13:10;Luke21:24; Matt.5:13; Rev.11:2). https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke22%3A31%2C46%3B+Eph.6%3A12-13%3B+1Pet.5%3A8-9%3B+2Cor.11%3A3%2C13-14%2C4%2C20%3BRev.2%3A20%2C10%3B+Col.2%3A8%3B+Eph.5%3A6%3B+Matt.24%3A4%3B+James1%3A13-14%3B+Job+1%3A6%2C8-12%2C22%3B+27%3A6%3B+13%3A18%3B+31%3A6%3B+James5%3A10-11)+(Rev.13%3A10%3BLuke21%3A24%3B+Matt.5%3A13%3B+Rev.11%3A2&version=CSB&fbclid=IwAR3rEgWRrdgSgz8qRdQdOSdzju-sxIotfh6i_nh4e52LBsrwxUeixSZdHeo
It is our opportunity to rise and meet the occasion, and to PROVE whose sons we truly are.
If we belong to Christ, we will, like him, endure in faithfulness, by obeying God throughout our trials. In doing so, we are spiritually branded and sealed, as servants of God "(Deut.11:18; Rev.14:4-5; 22:4,3; Heb.8:10; Deut.11:18; 1Pet.2:10,9).” https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deut.11%3A18%3B+Rev.14%3A4-5%3B+22%3A4%2C3%3B+Heb.8%3A10%3B+Deut.11%3A18%3B+1Pet.2%3A10%2C9&version=CSB&fbclid=IwAR3ZUlk5YdrEX86KrbIH8ioRgB8Yb4kmteiMEG2DwJ420L5hArK2LQwWfrs
In the video, Jesus answers, “it is written, man must not live on bread alone.“ But, the scripture in full reads, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, BUT BY EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS FROM THE MOUTH OF GOD. ”
Is this possible in the Watchtower? No. JWs cannot truly say they survive on every word that comes from God’s mouth, since their “bread” are the “words” from uninspired governing body members, and made with the same recipe the Pharisees used – the leaven of deceit. Matt 16:6-12; Mark 13:22 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt+16%3A6-12%3B+Mark+13%3A22&version=CSB&fbclid=IwAR0PyToU9Au5Cgfthw5cfiZhgPthmRAlnBj8IC8TXT0TfTMpXBzLIVLHakQ
A troubling part follows, when Satan has taken Jesus to a pinnacle of the temple. Satan says, “if you are a son of God, throw yourself down”. The video shows Jesus falling backward off the temple wall while Satan’s voice is heard, “for the angels will carry you on their hands, so that you may not strike your foot against a stone.’” Two angels return Jesus to the top of the temple. Behind Jesus’ back and in a sinister voice, Satan says, “PROVE IT TO THEM”. I showed this part to my husband, and he immediately said, “but Jesus didn’t do that”. Why would the makers of this video for children, even remotely entertain the possibility of Jesus falling from the temple heights? Well, who is it that desires to see Jesus conquered at the end of the days? Gen 3:15; Rev 12:7 Who has the ability to fabricate lies and call them “good”? This video could likely be considered by JWs as a blessing from God, but is it? Isa 5:20,21; 2 Pet 2:1-3 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Gen+3%3A15%3B+Rev+12%3A7%3B+Isa+5%3A20%2C21%3B+2+Pet+2%3A1-3&version=CSB&fbclid=IwAR1mrN2e3EoSHbLTG9wnQkMl59xfZ0gwG8kiaqWi9vlh8busE3zcgjFHw90
Today, the “Temple of God” is the Body of Christ, his priesthood built with living stones. 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17 Are the anointed sons of God being tempted by Satan to fall away from God’s Temple, the anointed Body of Christ? 2 Cor 6:14-18 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Pet+2%3A5%2C9%3B+1+Cor+3%3A16%2C17%3B+2+Cor+6%3A14-18&version=CSB&fbclid=IwAR1QbLFUkqCU7yvJGA-snerRXY3SQjGkBFi_pCUpogbaZzcG_BGMKremdpQ
Watchtower 16/1 pp. 22-27 – “In addition, anointed Christians do not view themselves as being part of an elite club. THEY DO NOT SEEK OUT OTHERS WHO CLAIM TO HAVE THE SAME CALLING, HOPING TO BOND WITH THEM endeavoring to form private groups for Bible study.”
Please JWs, do not listen to the lies of men and their demonic expressions, (Rev 16:13,14) but let God’s inspired Word teach you about the anointed ones. Paul tells us why it is imperative that the Temple/Body bonds with one another:
"But as it is, GOD has arranged each one of the parts in the body JUST AS HE WANTED. 19 And if they were all the same part, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts, but one body. 21 The eye cannot say to the hand, “I don’t need you!” Or again, the head can’t say to the feet, “I don’t need you!” 22 On the contrary, those parts of the body that are weaker are indispensable. 23 And those parts of the body that we consider less honorable, we clothe these with greater honor, and our unrespectable parts are treated with greater respect, 24 which our respectable parts do not need.
Instead, God has put the body together, giving greater honor to the less honorable, 25 so that there would be NO DIVISION IN THE BODY, but that the members would have the same concern for each other. 26 So if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it." 1 Cor 12:18-26 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rev+16%3A13%2C14&version=CSB&fbclid=IwAR2t2Szy7kCQINTwvyqQqzNS4ys3eVUkmjoqSv5Qaqd_5sAdJQEM6mke5NMThis is only possible if the members of God’s Household recognize who its members are! Eph 2:18-22 The Watchtower has ignored “God’s handiwork”, by successfully tearing it down before your eyes, while it builds its empire in literal stone. Eph 2:10; Isa 3:8,9 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Eph+2%3A18-22%3B+Eph+2%3A10%3B+Isa+3%3A8%2C9&version=CSB&fbclid=IwAR39TRzdD7e2Y84sAji6umYFuUSqmGmzyvrFeEeZwpkkiNHDUkzTcpf_a3k
“…so that you may not strike your foot against a stone”. Satan is quoting from Ps 91 which emphasizes our true security and protection is “in the shadow of the Almighty”. In Ps 91:12, the word “stone” is from the root meaning “to build”. It seems obvious from the WT quote, that Jesus, the chief cornerstone of God’s House, has become a “stone of stumbling” for the anointed in the WT. Isa 28:16 Jesus is not accepted as the one and only Head of the Body. Instead, obedience must be given to the governing body and their elders BEFORE considering any obedience to Christ. Matt 24:48-51; Luke 22:24-27; Rev 13:14-17 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isa+28%3A16%3B+Matt+24%3A48-51%3B+Luke+22%3A24-27%3B+Rev+13%3A14-17&version=CSB&fbclid=IwAR2FRnpA_DLdMzCSbzHfmwrepiEAEDvTBu5m9qU844Rqch8BaSzTkcWuiV4
In the video, Satan taunts, “prove it to them”. Are the anointed thoroughly convinced they have God’s protection by complying with the “decree” outlined in the WT quote above, choosing men’s lies over the truth in scripture? Have they attempted to “prove it”; prove that all is well for them spiritually, by boldly proclaiming before God and the angels that “Jehovah’s organization” is their safety net? In reality, these “living stones” have fallen from the Temple and from the truth of God’s laws in Christ. They lie scattered and disconnected from their true Head, Jesus Christ. Heb 2:1; John 14:6; 1 Tim 4:1 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Heb+2%3A1%3B+John+14%3A6%3B+1+Tim+4%3A1&version=CSB&fbclid=IwAR152B4nHrFIOvW7BffISULpYpGp7lPPrwFVaziVTRVC7FczFzUjI77banw
From Pearl Doxsey’s article, “Lukewarm”, “Hot” or “Cold”:
At Rev.3:15,16 Jesus said to his anointed Congregation...
"I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth.""Heat" symbolizes zeal for truth (Rom.12:11; Acts 18:25). https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rom.12%3A11%3B+Acts+18%3A25&version=CSB&fbclid=IwAR19hQNVNnXF5Fiqk7Tb3gMjv5rlLIzLsR3p7BYotyXW4lYC52A5oSIdlQI
That zeal can exist, but be misguided (Rom.10:2; Acts 21:20; Rom.9:31; 10:3). https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rom.10%3A2%3B+Acts+21%3A20%3B+Rom.9%3A31%3B+10%3A3&version=CSB&fbclid=IwAR2TX861hMddo9JCIuR_z7869dR_IqZ6aKQPWZ1AEpAUUNg0DaPwZLV-lbU
This can happen to the anointed, when they are looking at establishing their OWN righteousness; BY RITUALS, TRADITIONS, ARRANGEMENTS, AND COMMANDS OF MEN; rather than seeking the righteousness OF GOD, through submission and obedience to Him (Matt.6:33; 7:21; Rom.2:29). https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt.6%3A33%3B+7%3A21%3B+Rom.2%3A29&version=CSB&fbclid=IwAR0pIXgSU2RFg7rbW2WUGl0etLJ6OqpViHpC4ryVFiQa_PDPh06pWysdhvU
This mistake results in stumbling (Rom.9:32,33; Matt.11:6). https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rom.9%3A32%2C33%3B+Matt.11%3A6&version=CSB&fbclid=IwAR2eBs3iEtQiL2oofs90sePUEa8dd-5e2YEtZ0Ar0o94vFrjQxX0kFUHRPM
That stone is Christ (Isa.28:16; 8:14; Matt.7:24; 21:42; Rom.9:33; Zech.3:9) https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isa.28%3A16%3B+8%3A14%3B+Matt.7%3A24%3B+21%3A42%3B+Rom.9%3A33%3B+Zech.3%3A9&version=CSB&fbclid=IwAR1URyl6Ocnk8itInTM3V_7pOpO6JYs_JjB211Fv2om0DqnnMvKByeKLdOA
In the video, Jesus replied to Satan’s challenge by saying, “Again, it is written, you must not put Jehovah your God to the test.” Matt 4:7
It is interesting that Jesus quoted a verse from Deut chapter 6. Notice the circumstances that prompted these words of Moses.
"Do not follow other gods, the gods of the peoples around you, 15 for the Lord your God, who is among you, is a jealous God. Otherwise, the Lord your God will become angry with you and obliterate you from the face of the earth. 16 Do not test the Lord your God as you tested him at Massah. Deut 6:14-16
“Jehovah’s organization” is another “god”, JWs, built as any other organization in the world, using all of its assets; although, this one is taught as “spirit-directed” where you can find refuge and shelter from the same world that it exists in. This is quite a paradox, isn’t it? 1 John 5:19; Rev 13:1,11,15 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=%3F+++1+John+5%3A19%3B+Rev+13%3A1%2C11%2C15&version=CSB&fbclid=IwAR37MXM0cPCRpmwZiS6keZ-myBRXOIWtSOitAY-bNHgYI9O--9dRWHvNrg4
Kingdom Ministry, 5/84, pp. 3-6: “Many have escaped from satanic influence and have sought REFUGE IN Jehovah’s theocratic ORGANIZATION.”
This is nothing more than a psychological trap, which anointed and all, have fallen for. Jer 5:26; Rev 13:4 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jer+5%3A26%3B+Rev+13%3A4&version=CSB&fbclid=IwAR3xRisIkIRTgpUz9Qzmbybo_3GgV-msVeVHlTRlFritDjv2HJVxO_4YH1c
Next, the video sweeps past several rock buildings and centers on what appears to be a temple of Asian influence and design. Jesus finds himself quickly inside an expansive room of sculptured pillars and long red curtains hanging from above; the color similar to what I have seen draped behind governing body members during broadcasts of annual meetings. Or I liken it the rich hues and decorated pillars that embellish the inside of the organization's Stanley Theater, a desirable place for conventions.
A running red carpet leads to a red throne where Satan reclines. He is seen gulping down the last wine from a golden goblet which is then tossed empty, across the room.
“Woe to those who rise early in the morning,
That they may follow intoxicating drink;
Who continue until night, till wine inflames them!
12 The harp and the strings,
The tambourine and flute,
And wine are in their feasts;
BUT THEY DO NOT REGARD THE WORK OF THE LORD,
NOR CONSIDER THE OPERATION OF HIS HANDS.13 Therefore MY PEOPLE HAVE GONE INTO CAPTIVITY,
Because THEY HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE;
Their honorable men are FAMISHED,
And their multitude dried up with thirst.
14 Therefore Sheol has enlarged itself
And opened its mouth beyond measure;
Their glory and their multitude and their pomp,
And he who is jubilant, shall descend into it. Isa 5:11-14Satan offers Jesus a large roomful of golden utensils and statues; one being a haughty, stout looking individual with outstretched arms, standing on a pedestal. There is just something familiar about him. Isa 5:15,21 Satan reveals images of buildings in his opened palm which he offers to Jesus. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isa+5%3A15%2C21&version=NKJV&fbclid=IwAR15vzs8LSIlA08V99DHZohOAiDR0eLow5lXIecTmmz7UmYyZ9JI1bkYRmY
He exclaims,
“See all this glory! It is MINE and I give it to whomever I wish. And all these things, I will give to you, if you fall down and do an act of worship to me.”In an article about the Stanley Theater's renovation, a JW said,
“We automatically assign a SACREDNESS TO THE BUILDING BECAUSE OF OUR WORSHIP,” said Warren, of Witness Assembly Halls. “Having this space adds to the grandeur of why we are here.”
Without a doubt, this statement exudes pure idolatry.
“Come, descendants of Jacob,
let us walk in the light of the Lord.6 You, Lord, have abandoned your people,
the descendants of Jacob.
They are full of superstitions from the EAST;
they practice divination like the Philistines
and embrace PAGAN CUSTOMS.
7 Their land is full of SILVER AND GOLD;
THERE IS NO END TO THEIR TREASURES.
Their land is full of horses;
there is no end to their chariots.
8 THEIR LAND IS FULL OF IDOLS;
THEY BOW DOWN TO THE WORK OF THEIR HANDS,
TO WHAT THEIR FINGERS HAVE MADE.”
9 So people will be brought low
and everyone humbled—
do not forgive them. Isa 2:5-9Please, stop and think, JWs. What is the organization built on? Money from heaven? Would Jesus eventually influence Satan to give up his gold to finance false worship centered around “temples” at the end of the days? Does he recognize any “temple” other than his Body, a living Temple in the anointed ones? Do you really believe Jesus would coerce JWs to finance this folly when he rejected what Satan offered him while on earth? Matt 19:21; 6:20 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt+19%3A21%3B+6%3A20+&version=CSB&fbclid=IwAR1x0-j8eRajsbdX7VifbIROQceVCp1_PkREW8mFS799_1GeeePCVpbkdNw
Are you getting the idea? Behind Watchtower’s pious demeanor is the unquenchable desire for riches and power motivating the organization’s leaders to ask YOU to foster their idolatrous claims.
In a news article about the Stanley Theater, a JW stated,
“We are largely self-financed,” said Robert Warren, media consultant for the World Headquarters of Jehovah’s Witnesses, NOTING THAT THE PROJECT WAS FUNDED BY INDIVIDUAL DONATIONS FROM WITNESSES ACROSS THE WORLD. “Whoever wants to build a tower must first count the cost,” he cited biblically, attributing the successful funding to strategic planning. “Rather than start and escalate, we evaluate first.”
This is a tell-all statement.
The cited scripture is from Luke 14:
“Now as Jesus proceeded on his journey, great crowds accompanied him, and he turned and spoke to them,
“If anyone comes to me without ‘hating’ his father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, and even his own life, he cannot be a disciple of mine. The man who will not take up his cross (“figuratively, exposure to death, i.e. self-denial”) and follow in my footsteps cannot be my disciple.
28-30 “If any of you wanted to build a tower, wouldn’t he first sit down and work out the cost of it, to see if he can afford to finish it? Otherwise, when he has laid the foundation and found himself unable to complete the building, everyone who sees it will begin to jeer at him, saying, ‘This is the man who started to build a tower but couldn’t finish it!’
In the foregoing scriptures Jesus is not talking about building and repairing physical assets, but he is speaking of the cost and consequences of FOLLOWING HIM! Are the leaders of the WT., who delegate their pagan building endeavors, true disciples of Christ? No. 1 John 2:19; Jude 1:12,13; Matt 7:18,20; Rev 8:10,11 They are attached to their ever-increasing pagan idols, and desire your money, JWs, to keep financing their “towers”. Jer 22:13-17; Isa 5:8,9 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+John+2%3A19%3B+Jude+1%3A12%2C13%3B+Matt+7%3A18%2C20%3B+Rev+8%3A10%2C11%3B+Jer+22%3A13-17%3B+Isa+5%3A8%2C9+&version=NKJV&fbclid=IwAR398AYdmn5J2QBEOBlPDpt5Sz8K_Nw26nqqq_Uu5O6f-_3q3i2oGKWW8k4
Can you discern that the CORNERSTONE of God’s true Temple has not only been rejected by your leaders, but is a source of stumbling for the anointed, and for you, JWs? Jesus and his living stones have been replaced with an idol. 1 Pet 2:6-8 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Pet+2%3A6-8&version=NKJV&fbclid=IwAR36hv2NfavH1z78oseqrGZXQ17bAiP1LhIncLvtYTs6Pdb9Vc0WYerslrg
Jesus answered Satan; “It is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God and SERVE HIM ONLY.”
Under the spiritual influence of the Mastermind of deception, a false prophet/ spiritual Harlot and her Beast/organization has captivated and seduced the anointed and companions; making jest at the same time of Jesus’ testing in the wilderness, through the children’s video. All financial support and “worship” given to this organization upholds one goal; to keep all within, blind and drunk on the “Harlot’s wine”, and far from the daylight of Christ. 1 Thess 5:4-7; 2 Thess 2:9-12; Rev 12:3,4; 13:1,6,7 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Thess+5%3A4-7%3B+2+Thess+2%3A9-12%3B+Rev+12%3A3%2C4%3B+13%3A1%2C6%2C7&version=CSB&fbclid=IwAR3tFyJ5X2MZD3XbYNoSTrkZVRaBxHVcyjO_vxG6TpYrt1IlLo3u6rIGdWQ
Please, walk away from it. Stand for Truth found in Christ’s Words. Mark 8:35 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+8%3A35&version=CSB&fbclid=IwAR349ta6vb98HJHTZ8QbausJnfs8KuwO5C9imM8_yYRze-qmCwcYZVO92Bs
Hear the word of the Lord, people of Israel,
for the Lord has a case
against the inhabitants of the land:
There is no truth, no faithful love,
and no knowledge of God in the land!4 But let no one dispute; let no one argue,
for my case is against you priests.
5 You will stumble by day;
the prophet will also stumble with you by night.
And I will destroy your mother (“Israel”).
6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.
Because you have rejected knowledge,
I will reject you from serving as my priest.
Since you have forgotten the law of your God,
I will also forget your sons.7 The more they multiplied,
the more they sinned against me.
I will change their honor into disgrace.8 They feed on the sin of my people;
they have an appetite for their iniquity.
9 The same judgment will happen
to both people and priests. I will punish them for their ways
and repay them for their deeds.10 They will eat but not be satisfied;
they will be promiscuous but not multiply.
For they have abandoned their devotion to the Lord.
11 Promiscuity, wine, and new wine
take away one’s understanding.12 My people consult their wooden idols,
and their divining rods inform them.
For a spirit of promiscuity leads them astray;
they act promiscuously
in disobedience to their God. Hos 4:1,4-6,7-12Pearl Doxsey, 4womaninthewilderness
"Baptism Series - Lesson Two Section 1/The Wilderness"
"Why Did Jesus Get Baptized"?
"Forty Days and Forty Nights"
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On 11/30/2018 at 11:56 AM, JW Insider said:
Witness, I don't remember ever giving you an upvote before on any topic, but I can tell from the way you took this issue seriously, and from how well you wrote the entire last response, that you are sincerely concerned about handling the word of God aright, and thinking deeply about the issue here.
I should make clear that my last post here concerning the letter, was not written by me. I could never organize my thoughts as well as the writer of the letter.
When reading your post, and before reaching the scriptures you quoted, I had them in mind. I agree wholeheartedly with your words, but the concept would never be expressed by the leaders of the organization. Your explanation is so foreign to the way the entire organization is run. The chance that there would be a renewal of thought, is slim to nonexistent. Although, as I believe the GB will be disfellowshipped, there will be an effort made for a "restoration".
Did you notice how you felt the need to carefully word your thoughts?:
“We can't completely disfellowship our elders from their responsibility, but we can avoid giving the impression that we agree with these practices.”
“We should be willing to speak out against the kind of videos we have seen recently which praise a person for avoiding familial contact with their own brothers and sisters and mothers and fathers”
The fear factor of going against leadership is too high for most JWs to risk speaking out.
You said,
“Of course, when it comes to those who no longer call themselves a brother (or sister) in the congregation we can treat them just as we would any other sinner or tax collector; we are in no danger of giving the impression that we support their conduct, because they are not even claiming to be related to us in the faith."
What category do those who are like myself fall into? I can’t claim to be part of the Watchtower faith, but only in Christ. Those friends I have left behind would never consider me a “sister”. Should people like myself be treated as “any other sinner or tax collector”? I have not sinned and have a strong relationship with the Father and Christ. Thus, for doing so, I am an “apostate”. Those in the organization are thoroughly convinced this is apostasy against God; which in reality it is apostasy against “teachings unique to Jehovah’s Witnesses” – Bible not included in this phrase.
On 11/30/2018 at 4:35 PM, JW Insider said:If we truly have love, even for our enemies, we should have no problem dealing with tax collectors and sinners. How much more should we show love to someone who is in dire straits for a reason we already understand and one we can help them understand.
You see it all as it should be seen, but cannot be accomplished in the organization.
My perspective, as one outside looking in, and believing strongly that the Wt. is complete deception is written in Jude:
“But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” These are the people who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.
But you, dear friends, by building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.
Be merciful to those who doubt; save others by snatching them from the fire; to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh. Jude 1:17-23
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This is a letter written by an exJW and sent to many in the Watchtower. This person saw through the delusion to join an organization and its process of disfellowshipping. It seems apropos to bring out under this thread.
"Gaining bible knowledge through reading and study was
something I deeply cherished as a Jehovah’s Witness. But as my comprehension grew over time, so did my troubles with a restless conscience.
Specific information I read in the publications, and particular
statements repeated by elders and others on a regular basis didn’t appear to be
supported scripturally; likewise for certain mandated procedures that were
carried out each week, month, etc. But the real source of the cognitive dissonance I struggled with for years was a couple of rules I bumped into not long after my baptism over 17 years ago--the two most important rules for JW’s:1. obey the Governing Body as if they are God himself
2. Accept and comply with all Watchtower teachings, even when they deviate from the scriptures.
The publications, elders, etc. never stated these directives in such
straightforward terms, but they were fully understood by the rank and file
nonetheless. Why the issue? These rules required me to obediently “follow the
leader” regardless of whether it bothered my conscience to do so. This was not what I dedicated my life to God for and in fact, such requirements were completely incongruous with what I was preaching to individuals of other faiths.
The same bible verses were recited time and time again to the Lutheran,
Catholic and Mormon: obey God as ruler rather than men; be faithful even in what is least; be sure of all things; test every inspired expression; do not put your trust in men. I wanted to help all I met in the ministry to understand that blind complacency was not acceptable according to God’s word.“True” Christians must:
1. carefully and independently scrutinize all
church teachings, policies and procedures2. Defy church authorities and their
organizational protocols when it is evident that scriptural directives are not
being followed3. Cancel church membership if necessary. Needless to say, the imposed double standard
--do as I say, not as I do--made it increasingly difficult to engage in the
door to door ministry. How could I tell anyone to do these things when I wasn’t
doing them myself?
From the beginning right up to the present, the Organization
has been well-known for its countless flip-flops/revisions/discards, etc. in
doctrines, policies, and procedures, as well as numerous failed predictions. So
I am simply drawing attention to the obvious by pointing out that Watchtower
leadership is wrong at times. As mentioned, my biggest issue was that I was required to “follow the leader”, i.e., accept and comply with absolutely everything the Governing Body and elders told me to--despite the frequent changes and inconsistencies, and
despite the fact that doing so meant I had to not only ignore my bible-trained
conscience, but ignore God as well.
There were times when I went out on a limb and discussed my concerns
with a few individuals, but the response was always the same: Wait on Jehovah. Put another way, do what the elders and Governing Body tell you to do no matter what; Jehovah will straighten things out in his own due time. (sound familiar?)This stock answer never made sense to me so one day I decided to do a bit of research (Acts 17:11; 1 John 4:1)
It didn’t take long to see that such thinking was entirely
out of sync with God’s word, and the following explains why. According to the Gospels, the leaders of God’s covenant people had once again strayed from his Word by establishing their own standards of righteousness and, as in times past, Jehovah wasn’t
happy about it. His feelings on the matter where made known by Jesus’ scathing
denunciations, but more than anything else, he condemned them for their
self-righteous arrogance and hypocritical double standards. (Matt. 3:9; 23:3,13-32; Romans 2:17-24)
As you know, the story ends with the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem--God’s divine execution of justice upon his unfaithful people, his “ channel” which, interestingly, wiped out the lives of not only the Jewish religious leaders, but the rank and file as well, i.e., those who had trusted and obeyed these men rather than God. From this information, one can draw the following conclusion: We will all be individually accountable to the Lord on judgment day, regardless of our religious affiliation (2Cor.5:10).
Therefore, no individual, nor group of individuals, nor religious organization is exempt from God’s judgment, regardless of what anyone may claim to the contrary (Matt. 3:9; 7:21-23) There is no salvation, no “ark” of safety, in any religious organizations nor the leaders who guide them consequently. (Psalms 146:3, 4)
The tragic death of each and every rank and file Jew that perished in Jerusalem
in 70 CE is a sobering reminder of what awaits those who think otherwise, who
erroneously believe the following:
1. Membership in a particular religious
organization provides divine protection and exemption from some of the
scriptural requirements they teach others to live by (Acts 10:34; Romans 2:21)
2. Absolute, rather than relative
subjection to their religious leaders equates to obedience to God and Christ.
Remember, giving allegiance and loyalty to anyone or anything other than Jah
first, constitutes spiritual fornication, idolatry--something He does not
tolerate. (Exodus 20:3; Ephesians 5:5; Rev. 14:4a)
Think about this the next time you compliantly promote Watchtower dogma that is not supported scripturally (Ephesians 4:25), or follow organizational procedures that violate bible principles, because you have probably done these things over and over again
with little or no thought as to the potential consequences. I did.
For years, I tried to silence that little inner voice and faithfully do
whatever I was told in order to demonstrate obedience to the “Slave” and
maintain a good standing in the congregation.
It’s truly ironic that for 17 years, I was vigilant in avoiding any sort
of political and/or nationalistic demonstration of allegiance or loyalty for
fear of committing idolatry; and yet for 17 years, I made sacrifices, not to
God, but to an image –a religious organization.
But what about the verses that say we must speak in
agreement and be submissive to those taking the lead (1 Corinthians 1:10;
Hebrews 13:7), or the one that mentions the light getting brighter (Prov.4:18), you may ask. Well think about this: since Jah never lies or contradicts, his principles, rules and prophecies are consistent and unchanging, even if this doesn’t always appear to be the
case. Like a beautiful masterpiece in a dimly lit museum, the many intricacies
of God’s immutable truths cannot be seen nor fully appreciated without a bright
light--a divine luminary that dissipates the shadows of unenlightenment over
time. (Psalms 36:9; 43:3) So even though we may not comprehend everything we
read in God’s Word, we can still draw the conclusion that Jah does not require
anyone to blindly “follow the leader” and/or maintain hypocritical double
standards in worship. If the inverse were true, verses such as Acts 5:29, Psalms 146:3, and 1 John 4:1 would not be in the bible. With this in mind, why is it that JW’s hang on the Governing Body’s every word, never questioning any of their claims, yet exhort their
neighbors to carefully scrutinize everything their religious leaders say and
do? After much thought, I believe I have formulated a reasonable
explanation.Consider the following.
As a student of the bible, I can say with confidence that
neither Proverbs 4:18 nor any verse indicates that Jehovah is directly or
indirectly responsible for the Governing Body’s long track record of
contradictions, flip-flops in understanding , major policy changes (e.g., organ transplants), failed predictions, etc. To even imply anything to the contrary is clearly misleading, for this suggests that the Organization’s consistent misrepresentation of the scriptures is due to Jehovah’s slowness in shedding light, rather than the real reasons -
presumptuousness, lack of holy spirit, arrogance, etc. on the part of
the GB. And yet, each time these changes occur, Proverbs 4:18 is cited in the related Watchtower articles and quoted in talks from the podium, leading JW’s to believe that these men are not directly
responsible for any errors they make (because it’s God’s doing). This raises the GB to the level of infallibility, which is the very reason why you and many others mechanically
“follow the leader”, regardless of how much or how often they deviate, revamp,
revise, scrap, screw-up, etc.A similar process takes place in the case of Hebrews 13:7, 1 Corinthians 1:10, and other verses such as Psalms 42:5. When considered within the context of the biblical canon, not a single verse, illustration, or account indicates that JW’s are under divine obligation to comply with the GB’s every dictate –right or wrong (Acts 5:29). Even hinting
that the inverse is true is nothing less than a deceptive, megalomaniacal
attempt to alter God’s universal hierarchy of authority in the minds of
spiritually-inclined individuals (1 Corinthians 11:3) And yet, the GB does just
that and more in order to perpetuate the lie that absolute, rather than
relative subjection to their headship equates to obedience to God and Christ. These eisegeses and others are consistently and frequently dispensed via the talks, publications, etc. week after week,
month after month, and year after year.
In fact, during one particular meeting, a highly respected elder
declared, “Whatever comes out of the mouth of the Slave, you consider that as
coming out of the mouth of Jehovah.” In light of the foregoing, such grandiose
claims are utter blasphemy (Jah NEVER lies --Romans 3:4). What’s even worse is
the fact that compliance with these mistruths and others is strictly enforced
much in the same way the Catholic Church once sanctioned any who challenged its
unscriptural dogmas, policies, and practices.
Apostate branding, public humiliation, removal from the congregation and
shunning by JW family members and friends is the outcome that awaits all who
dare to listen to their consciences and loyally uphold God’s word (Acts 5:29).
These shameful implements of evil have led to mental and emotional problems,
serious physical ailments, and even death among a significant number of
disfellowshipped JW’s. Taking all this into account, it’s no wonder Jehovah’s
Witnesses practice hypocrisy!
If you have no problem being deceived, lied to, manipulated
and controlled by fear, you are where you should be—in the Organization of
Jehovah’s Witnesses. However, if, like me, you have experienced a crisis of
conscience due to the unscriptural autocratic style of governance the
Organization wields, DO NOT IGNORE IT. God has given you a conscience for a
reason, so it is vitally important that you use it as HE intended. Here’s how:
1. Read and study your bible exclusively and independently2.
Independently research the history of the Organization and current and past
Watchtower doctrines, policies, and procedures, paying particular attention to
the frequent flip-flopping, revisions, etc.
3. Independently and carefully verify all information that is dispensed
via the publications and public talks, rejecting anything that is not solidly
backed by God’s word. Be particularly on guard for statements that tell you to accept and/or comply with whatever you are told, even if it doesn’t make sense, add-up, etc.4. Practice what you preach! Refuse to hypocritically teach
others to apply bible standards that you are not fully complying with yourself
(e.g., preaching 1 John 4:1 but not applying it)5. Refuse to commit idolatry/spiritual fornication by complacently “following the leader” when you know or even sense that doing so requires, or may require, disobedience to God and his word (Remember, he who is faithful in what is least, is faithful in
what is most!)6. Refuse to be intimidated and controlled by family, friends, elders or anyone else that
attempts to frighten you into remaining in subjection to the Organization
rather than Jehovah7. Pray to God for strength and courage to do what is right according to his word.
If you are unclear by what I mean by “independently”, let me explain. Rather than relying on the Organization’s self-published material to verify the accuracy of the Organization’s
assertions, claims etc., seek out sources that are not controlled by, nor
affiliated with the Watchtower. This is what Jah wants you to do and it’s what
you tell others to do! (Acts 17:11; 1 John 4:1) Verify, test, check--just as
you would if you were buying a vehicle.
Rather than rely on the salesman’s claims, you would consult independent
and objective sources of information like Consumer Reports or carfax.com,
before making the decision to buy.
What is the purpose of this letter? I assure you it is in no
way an attempt to subvert your faith in God. To the contrary, it is a plea to
fully trust and comply with God’s Word, regardless of the consequences (fear of
man is what lays a snare). And it is a warning. If you continue to remain in the Organization and complacently accept whatever you are spoon-fed, you are pleasing men, not Jehovah…. and you are in danger. The tragedy that befell God’s unfaithful anointed in the first century foreshadows future events that will befall God’s modern-day, unfaithful anointed remnant and all those (the rank and file) who put their faith and trust in them. I realize JW’s are taught to believe that Christendom is modern day apostate Jerusalem, but this simply isn’t so. If that’s the case, God’s anointed remnant is in Christendom, not the Organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses. This is a critical point because it involves you on a very personal level. How?
According to the scriptures, wherever the anointed are is precisely
where the apostasy and subsequent judgment will occur. So then, if the remnant
is located in your religious organization, the foretold apostasy will also
occur within your religious organization. Ask yourself: why did Jehovah spare the Samaritans –the “pagan half-Jews”--when he brought destruction upon his covenant people in 70 CE?
According to the pattern set in the first century, the
purpose of the modern day apostasy is to fully test the anointed. (Mal.3:2,3) Whether they qualify to co-rule mankind in the future will be determined by whom they ultimately choose to serve –Jah or their unfaithful religious leaders. The Revelation prophesies and many others reveal this tuggle war of loyalty
(Matt.4:8, 9; John14:30; 18:36; Rev.1:5; 5:10; 6:15; 16:12,14; 17:2,10,12,14,18; 18:3,9; 19:16-19; 20:4,6; 21:24; 22:5).
On one side is Satan and the unfaithful anointed who, like the Pharisees, deviate from God’s word (and deceive the rank & file into doing the same), and on the other, Christ and
his faithful anointed who loyally uphold Jah’s standards even unto death
(Revelation 2:10). Sadly, the vast majority of those on the battle lines will not prevail because they are on the losing side, caught in the same trap that Satan set in the first century: a religious organization that appears to have God’s approval.
This information (preceding two paragraphs) is not of my own
originality but comes from anointed brothers and sisters--yes, members of the
body of Christ--who have been kicked out of the Organization for refusing to
comply with unscriptural doctrines, policies, and practices. Many of these faithful ones wrote letters to the Governing Body about these matters, but they were largely ignored. How do you think Jehovah feels about that? Well, how did He feel when Jesus and his disciples were thrown out of the synagogues?
In closing, I want to point out that I still worship Jehovah God (and no, I’m not a
Trinitarian). And I still care about you; this is the sole reason why you have personally received this information. Should you desire to discuss any of the points presented here in greater detail, or simply need a listening ear and some loving support, please don’t hesitate to contact me. All communication will be completely confidential so you don’t have to worry.
All My Love,Xxxx
Pearl Doxsey posted this letter on her blog - 4womaninthewilderness
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On 11/29/2018 at 8:17 AM, TrueTomHarley said:
I will ask you the same question that I asked the big boy: “Without such congregational tools of discipline, which do come across as harsh in today’s world, is it possible for a group to keep its core moral values over time? Do you know of any examples?”
Please do not respond with what “should be.” Respond with what is. Do you know of any examples?
Fair enough. But, why are you making such a challenge to begin with? Knowing what you do about the harm happening in the WT from disfellowshipping, (or are you cognizant of it?) are you trying to prove that “Jehovah’s organization” and its specific “tools of discipline” is the only choice God sanctions for keeping moral values in check?
Since the “whole world lies in the power of the wicked one”, there is not a concrete non-religious group nor any established religious group found in Satan’s world that is able to keep its “core moral values over time.”.
If you could only detect that being part of a religious organization is being part of the “world” which makes keeping moral values in place, an impossibility. Once an organizational structure develops, a ruler-ship over others becomes necessary. Rules are fabricated, according to whomever wields the power, and determines what is adequate for the “group”. And, any who refuse to agree with those rules could be threatened with excommunication. Some of these rules could originate in the Bible, but used in the wrong context; or, additional ones are added requiring a guidebook written by the leaders.
In the Watchtower organization, all “fellowship” is based on allegiance to the organization itself. There is the lustful “desire” to build beautiful structures, appealing to the eye. Pride in what they have developed on the earth takes precedence. In fact, I would not be surprised if the GB believe Warwick Bethel will survive into the coming Kingdom of God. These “things” contribute to the organization’s growth, as well as the drive and expectations for men especially, to move up the religious “corporate” ladder. 1 John 2:15-17
Can anyone apply biblical values to a philosophy that mimics what can be found in Satan’s world, and be successful at it? 1 John 2:15,17
Yes, JWs preach, and they are well known for preaching falsehoods. If they preach something that is untrue 5 years later, are they blessed by God for imparting darkness to their neighbor? Truly, showing love to one’s neighbor by telling the truth is one of the core moral values, and the law of God. WT’s assumed moral values broke when the its leaders first uttered their lies and strutted their dominance over all. Luke 22:24-27
Although, there are individuals all over the planet, who desire and already have within themselves, core moral values. Are they considered a “group”? In a sense. I know of many, but many others do not make their name known. Christ knows who they are. John 10:14,15 Their “tools of discipline” are what is written solely in the Bible and they have the wherewithal to heed them. It is spurred on by an authentic love to serve God and Jesus faithfully. Many also look to the guidance of proven and tested anointed ones, to see how they can apply these tools, if there is a need. In the process, they are blessed with new understanding which is not possible in an environment where dark, dead teachings exist. 1 John 1:5; Matt 7:15-20 But, each individual approaches Christ who leads them to whom HE sends. John 13:20 You won’t find them in “Satan’s world”, since they are “no part of the world”. John 17:15,16 There are no structures where they meet and are “organized”, nor record-keeping, and no collecting donations to support and build a blossoming empire. Although I have in mind the Wt, it is more a fading flower, soon to come to nothing. Ps 37:20; Zech 4:7; Rev 8:8
So, there is a “fellowship” of the children of God, who are perfectly able to be responsible for developing their own core moral values by turning directly to the Father and Christ and receiving help from Holy Spirit. We may not see the final result of this group until the Kingdom of God arrives, but I can guarantee that a good many of them have come from the organization where the life they knew was cut short. Matt 16:25 In their family and friends’ eyes, they are determined as “dead”; although they feel “alive” in Christ. Rev 13:15; Eph 2:1-5; John 3:16 From then on, those who claim to have “love for their neighbor”, express hatred for them, a principle set down by those who instigated harsh disfellowshipping. 1 John 3:12; John 3:16
Why will we not know who this group may be? Because Jesus said, there is no physical place where we are to worship. No central physical location or “mountain” is approved by God for our worship. God abandoned the early temple arrangement and established His Temple in Christ. Jesus is telling us how to maintain spiritual distance from Satan’s realm and to be aware of those who will divert our attention away from the true Temple built with living stones. 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17 It is God’s will that our worship is “in spirit and truth”, which doesn’t require slavery to elemental things of the world. Rom 6:16;Col 2:8 Stephen also brought this out, but he was killed for doing so. Yet, “stiff-necked” Wt leaders have developed the organization - a god that goes before the people who they must “move ahead” with, or be left behind. John 4:13,14,21-24; Acts 7:39-41,48-51; Exod 32:23
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name, drive out demons in your name, and do many miracles in your name?’ 23 Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you lawbreakers!’
JWs have forgotten or can’t acknowledge that Jesus said to follow him. This doesn’t equate with following an organization. It is as it is; we follow him, in spirit and truth. Matt 10:38; 1 John 4:17; 14:6 The division that disfellowshipped ones experience for doing so, is exactly how Jesus prophesied it would happen.
“I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! 50 But I have a baptism to undergo, and what constraint I am under until it is completed! 51 Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52 From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.” Luke 12:49-53
“We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. 4 We write this to make our joy complete. This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin. 1 John 1:5-7
Darkness takes on many shades in the Watchtower, but it never becomes light.
- JW Insider and Srecko Sostar
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7 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:
He liked that one. In time he was reinstated, and I later told him that there was a silver lining to be found in his experience—he would forever be an example of how discipline produces its intended effect in the Christian community.
4 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:I actually would like meaningful feedback on this. Without such congregational tools of discipline, which do come across as harsh in today’s world, is it possible for a group to keep its core moral values over time? Do you know of any examples?
If you are referring strictly to Bible-based discipline, the WT leaders still have no clue how to do so in love, since they are more concerned at protecting an image than the individual. They fall far short of the examples we have in Jesus Christ. Yet, how do you account for the thousands who have not sinned, that have been disfellowshipped? Who is it, that is expressing core moral values? The individuals who leave knowing they can't tolerate another lie or submit to the rule of unrighteous men, or those who disfellowship them?
Core moral values should be dependent on Christ's teachings and practiced by the individual no matter what the "group" may decide.
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These “two witnesses” of Rev 11:1-3, are “Zion”, the Judean “mountains” that Jesus is telling us to go to – the “Jew” that the symbolic “ten men” gather to. They also symbolize the “slain carcass” providing truth and exposing lies. They were “slain” by the Beast whom they exposed as the Man of Lawlessness. Luke 17:37; Rev 11:7 They were disfellowshipped/”killed” for their testimony of Christ. Rev 12:17;13:1,2,11,15; 12:11
22 Then he said to the disciples, “The time will come when you will wish you could see one of the days of the Son of Man, but you will not see it. 23 There will be those who will say to you, ‘Look, over there!’ or, ‘Look, over here!’ But don't go out looking for it. 24 As the lightning flashes across the sky and lights it up from one side to the other, so will the Son of Man be in his day.
Lightening is the light of Christ; it is knowledge that Jesus provides his faithful servants during the last days. It is the Marriage Feast where the “wise virgins” have entered, and all who are “leaving the city”, that have accepted their invitation to the knowledge that Christ gives to everyone who seek earnestly for it. Matt 22:10
Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me. Rev 3:20
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I wish JWs could just add it all up. In the organization are the anointed ones; seen but not heard, with an anointed GB/”kings” (horns) ruling over them, wearing two (truth) horns LIKE A LAMB (of Christ) but speaks lie a dragon (a deceiver, a liar) Rev 13:11 These are the false prophets Jesus warned his disciples about. They act as “two witnesses” for truth, the counterfeit of those that Christ sends in Rev 11:1-3. How do we know they are counterfeits? They “kill” those who give testimony to Christ, they reject an organization built on lies – the Beast they foster as receiving the “breath” of spirit. Spirit-directed. Rev 13:14-17; 11:7; 12:11
Rev 11:7 – “When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war (a spiritual war) against them, overcome them, and kill them. “
And don’t JWs spread the news of their disfellowshipping, calling them apostates and good as dead? Don’t they support the GB’s decree carried out through the elder body, that this is necessary to “cleanse Jehovah’s organization”?
Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow their dead bodies to be put into graves. 10 And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth” Rev 11:9-10
Tormented them with what? The exposure of their lies!
Since when did Jesus say his disciples were to be oppressive to anyone?
They also started to argue. They disagreed about which of them was thought to be the most important person. 25 Jesus said to them, “The kings of the Gentiles hold power over their people.
Who act as “kings” over the all JWs, and are not part of spiritual “Israel”? The elder body.
And those who order them around call themselves Protectors.
Who give orders to the elders? The “Guardians of doctrine”.
26 But you must not be like that. Instead, the most important among you should be like the youngest. The one who rules should be like the one who serves. 27 Who is more important? Is it the one at the table, or the one who serves? Isn’t it the one who is at the table? But I am among you as one who serves. Luke 22:24-27
WHO IS AGAINST CHRIST AND HIS PRIESTS? SATAN. WHERE DO FALSE PROPHETS RECEIVE THEIR LIES; THEIR TEACHINGS THAT ARE WORTHLESS AS TIME PROVES THEM TO BE? SATAN. CAN SATAN PLAN A DELUSION USING FALSE PROPHETS TO MISLEAD THE REMNANT? YES! BY FLOODING THEM WITH LIES. 2 Thess 9:9-12; Rev 12:13-17; Matt 24:37-39.
EDIT. - It takes desirable, camouflaged bait to trap prey. Satan uses truth, and then pours on the lies. 2 Cor 11:15
“Wicked people are found among My people.
They lie in ambush like bird catchers.
They set traps and catch people." Jer 5:26The majority of JWs have limited awareness of Russel’s books, Rutherford’s, and the teachings of more leaders such a Franz. All of this literature is hidden as well as possible from the masses because it is full of lies. All of it from these various “trees” is the production of rotten fruit. If JWs say the believe Jesus’ teachings, then why don’t they heed them? Why do they keep listening to false teachers?
There is immense suffering from neglect toward child abuse victims in an organization that is to stand out as “no part of the world”. As soon as a case comes to light, many JWs say all organizations have this trouble. Well then, what makes the Watchtower any different than any other organization in spiritual “Babylon”? Nothing, EXCEPT the anointed and companions are “held captive” by empty philosophy and fabricated stories. Col 2:8; 2 Pet 2:3
The anointed who are disfellowshipped for realizing their oppression, leaving to serve only Christ and the Father, have a disgust for lies called truth. Yet, JWs believe God wants us to tolerate all of this. Never has God said, just deal with it. Jer 23:16 And never would God tolerate His people to hide the sins of those among them.
The Watchtower teachers “are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them. For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of the flesh, (money, assets, building, power) they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error. They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—for “people are slaves to whatever has mastered them.” 2 Pet 2:17,18
“Some Pharisees asked Jesus when the Kingdom of God would come. His answer was, “The Kingdom of God does not come in such a way as to be seen. 21 No one will say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or, ‘There it is!’; because the Kingdom of God is within you.”
Yet, @Kosonen you say it is easily seen in Satan’s world. You see what the world sees, what Christendom sees. Although you recognize the suffering of your own people under a “Gentile” rule of elders, you choose to make it less of an importance and instead build your preaching around the politics outside of God’s dwelling – His anointed hearts. 1 Cor 3:16,17 Where is the spiritual enlightenment when you see what the world sees? Will you “prophesy in sackcloth” if Trump puts his political signs up in Warwick as you believe will happen? Will you be mourning over something that you possibly already despise?
On 11/23/2018 at 12:02 PM, Kosonen said:I thought that maybe you or doxsey wish that everybody gets the special anointment.
To say this, makes me think you have little understanding of Pearl’s teachings. I do hope you revisit her articles. Please, as your “brother” in Christ, I ask that you take another look at her articles to understand the spiritual meaning of Christ’s coming.
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On 11/23/2018 at 1:46 PM, JOHN BUTLER said:
So back to the scripture about ten men clinging to the skirt of a Jew. A spiritual Jew of course.
I'll ask the silly question. Who really can we trust ? Surely Jesus would make it clear as to whom we should follow ?
Jesus went through towns and villages, teaching the people and making his way toward Jerusalem. Someone asked him, “Sir, will just a few people be saved?”
Jesus answered them, “Do your best to go in through the narrow door; because many people will surely try to go in but will not be able. Luke 13:22-24
And so I say to you: Ask, and you will receive; seek, and you will find; knock, and the door will be opened to you. For those who ask will receive, and those who seek will find, and the door will be opened to anyone who knocks. Would any of you who are fathers give your son a snake when he asks for fish? 12 Or would you give him a scorpion when he asks for an egg? As bad as you are, you know how to give good things to your children. How much more, then, will the Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!” Luke 11:9-13
Yes, beg for knowledge; plead for insight. Look for it as hard as you would for silver or some hidden treasure. If you do, you will know what it means to fear the Lord and you will succeed in learning about God. Prov 2:3-5
“Be on your guard against false prophets; they come to you looking like sheep on the outside, but on the inside they are really like wild wolves. You will know them by what they do. Thorn bushes do not bear grapes, and briers do not bear figs. A healthy tree bears good fruit, but a poor tree bears bad fruit. A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a poor tree cannot bear good fruit. And any tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown in the fire. So then, you will know the false prophets by what they do. Matt 7:15-20
The last symbolic two (meaning truth) “witnesses” or “trees” are exposing the Man of Lawlessness standing/ruling over the Temple of God; and they preach this “in sackcloth”. 1 Cor 3:16,17; Rev 11:1-3; Dan 8:12 They and their companions are declaring its “trampling” presence over God’s priesthood/Temple. 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17
If we discern this oppression, and the resulting end to the anointed “daily sacrifices” by the authoritative power over them, then Jesus said we are to “flee”. Matt 24:16 There are two fulfillments of this prophesy, one soon after Jesus ascended into heaven and one during the end days when Jesus comes to inspects his Temple priests. The call is to “get out”, away from the abomination – the rule of “Gentile” elders over the anointed priests and away from the Harlot/false prophet of Rev 13:11. Rev 18:4-8
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11 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:
When the GB declines to defend themselves and their policies before an audience of a MILLION people at one time .... why should I bother going out in the cold to knock on doors for twenty five years, to get ONE new convert ... when they are chasing them away by the tens of thousands?
The Law of Unintended Consequences. Yes, but is it really unintended?
Let them chase the people away. The worry is, when these broken ones leave hoping to find comfort and healing, a good many will also be soured about Christ's teachings, God and the Bible in general.
And the organization's leadership will say, "See? Didn't we tell you they would leave God?"
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are." Matt 23:15
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On 11/20/2018 at 10:48 AM, Kosonen said:
don't think those scriptures should be applied in that way. It is true that Abrahams offspring would be great in number. But that does not contradict that there will be a special kingly/priestly group composed of 144000. This number is repeated 3 times in Revelation to underscore that it is a literal number.
Have you noticed how the phrase “a thousand” is frequently used in the Hebrew scriptures? Could it really be that the numbers were so accurate to always compute to the exact number of a thousand? Or, is there another significance to its meaning?
May the Lord, the God of your ancestors, increase you a thousand times and bless you as he has promised! Deut 1:11
You show love to thousands but bring the punishment for the parents’ sins into the laps of their children after them. Great and mighty God, whose name is the Lord Almighty Jer 32:18
The chariots of God are tens of thousands
and thousands of thousands;
the Lord has come from Sinai into his sanctuary. Ps 68:17He remembers his covenant forever,
the promise he made, for a thousand generations, Ps 105:8This is what the Sovereign Lord says to Israel:
“Your city that marches out a thousand strong
will have only a hundred left;
your town that marches out a hundred strong
will have only ten left.” Amos 5:3Better is one day in your courts
than a thousand elsewhere;
I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God
than dwell in the tents of the wicked. Ps 84:10The least of you will become a thousand,
the smallest a mighty nation.
I am the Lord;
in its time I will do this swiftly.” Isa 60:22These are just some examples where a thousand is an open-ended number, used to signify a large undetermined quantity.
A thousand years in your sight
are like a day that has just gone by,
or like a watch in the night. Ps 90:4I think you can see that neither the day nor the thousand years here can be taken literally, but symbolic of a stretch of time and its meaning.
But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 2 Pet 3:8
Regarding your theory that the number 144,000 is literal because it is mentioned three times in Revelation, how does this apply to the number 12? Twelve is another number used throughout scripture and holds a deeper meaning than just the literal number. Does this make it a literal number in Revelation?
Rev 12:1 - twelve stars represent the twelve tribes of Israel. Does that mean that only 12 people of “Israel” will be part of the “144,000”? A symbolic “12,000” from each tribe make up the full “Israel”.
In Revelation 21 the Holy City is described having 12 gates, 12 angels, 12 foundations, 12 pearls, 12 apostles. Does this make “New Jerusalem” a literal city?
“The twelve gates were twelve pearls, each gate made of a single pearl.” Rev 21:21
Does this mean a literal city will be coming down to earth with 12 literal gates made of literal pearls?
The 12 apostles, plus the prophets are the foundation of the TEMPLE, with Jesus as the chief cornerstone. Each faithful living stone since the apostles, is sealed into it. Eph 2:20
Notice what it does say about the Temple.
I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23 The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp. Rev 21:22,23
Yet, in Rev 3:12 it is said that the faithful “144,000” become a “pillar” in this Temple. They become one with Christ as his Bride and part of the Temple. Rev 21:9-13 is describing the Bride AS the Holy City “coming down out of heaven”.
The Bride/city is “measured”:
“The city was laid out like a square, as long as it was wide. He measured the city with the rod and found it to be 12,000 stadia in length, and as wide and high as it is long.” Rev 21:16
“Long as it was wide”. 12X12=144
Add the symbolism of a “thousand” that consistently runs through scriptures as an immense undetermined number, and you have 144 thousand.
On 11/20/2018 at 10:48 AM, Kosonen said:And you can not force someone to become anointed how much you wish.
I don’t know why you are saying this, but I do agree. The anointing is not the choice of the person, but of God, to either accept it by walking in the path of Christ while he was on earth, or reject in favor of “fleshly” desires. Heb 9:15; Luke 4:1-13
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On 11/18/2018 at 9:09 PM, Witness said:
If you return to Watchtower’s sited scripture about Matt 24:15 above, and where they site Rev 17:16-18, you will soon see further action of the Man of Lawlessness/elder body collaborating with anointed “ten horns/kings”:
I consistently spell "cite" as "site". Very sorry.
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“Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the world. No, I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. I came to set sons against their fathers, daughters against their mothers, daughters-in-law against their mothers-in-law; your worst enemies will be the members of your own family." Matt 10:34,36
“I came to set the earth on fire, and how I wish it were already kindled! I have a baptism to receive, and how distressed I am until it is over! Do you suppose that I came to bring peace to the world? No, not peace, but division. From now on a family of five will be divided, three against two and two against three. Fathers will be against their sons, and sons against their fathers; mothers will be against their daughters, and daughters against their mothers; mothers-in-law will be against their daughters-in-law, and daughters-in-law against their mothers-in-law.” Luke 12:49-53
JWs believe this happens when they enter the organization. Not true. I believe it would be quite rare for JWs to be shunned for joining the organization. It is when people eliminate the "mediator" - the organization, and turn fully to Christ and the Father, his words are realized.
“Those who love their father or mother more than me are not fit to be my disciples; those who love their son or daughter more than me are not fit to be m disciples. Those who do not take up their cross and follow in my steps are not fit to be my disciples. Those who try to gain their own life will lose it; but those who lose their life (the life they have known in the org.) for my sake will gain it." Matt 10:37-39
“Happy are those who are persecuted because they do what God requires;
the Kingdom of heaven belongs to them!“Happy are you when people insult you and persecute you and tell all kinds of evil lies against you because you are my followers. Be happy and glad, for a great reward is kept for you in heaven. This is how the prophets who lived before you were persecuted." Matt 5:10-12
What does God require?
"Blessed is the one who does not walk in step with the wicked or stand in the way that sinners take or sit in the company of mockers, but whose delight is in the law of the Lord, and who meditates on His law day and night."
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11 hours ago, Kosonen said:
It is possible that a significant part of the anointed will be foolish just as Jesus told. I believe what Jesus said.
I do agree.
11 hours ago, Kosonen said:And I find it reasonable that the number 144000 is an exact number.
If there will be 14,4 billion people on earth during the 1000 year reign, it would be in average 100 000 people for each of the 144 000 kings and priests to take care of.
Don’t you think your desire to calculate with numbers is right in harmony with the Watchtower; and where has that gotten them, but a catalog of failed calculations? Are you counting “Israel”? 2 Sam 24:10
Isn’t it enough to accept what God said to Jacob?
Jacob left Beersheba and set out for Harran. 11 When he reached a certain place, he stopped for the night because the sun had set. Taking one of the stones there, he put it under his head and lay down to sleep.12 He had a dream in which he saw a stairway resting on the earth, with its top reaching to heaven, and the angels of God were ascending and descending on it. 13 There above it stood the Lord, and he said: “I am the Lord, the God of your father Abraham and the God of Isaac. I will give you and your descendants the land on which you are lying. 14 Your descendants will be like the dust of the earth, and you will spread out to the west and to the east, to the north and to the south. All peoples on earth will be blessed through you and your offspring. 15 I am with you and will watch over you wherever you go, and I will bring you back to this land. I will not leave you until I have done what I have promised you.” Gen 28:10-15
Who can fathom the Spirit of the Lord,
or instruct the Lord as His counselor?
14 Whom did the Lord consult to enlighten Him,
and who taught Him the right way?
Who was it that taught Him knowledge,
or showed Him the path of understanding? Isa 40:13,14 -
According to the GB, the parable of the Faithful Slave possibly becoming “Wicked”, is only a warning given by Christ. What about the “foolish virgins”?
“The parable does not teach that a large number of the anointed would prove unfaithful and need to be replaced. Rather, it serves as a warning that each anointed Christian has the full capacity to choose either a course of preparedness and vigilance or a course of folly and unfaithfulness. Jesus exhorted: “Prove yourselves ready.” (Mt 24:44) Regardless of our hope, Jesus requires all of us to prepare our heart for faithful service and to meet the same standard of watchfulness. Our Christian Life and Ministry—Meeting Workbook—2018
It’s very possible, even according to the WT, that the “virgins” could pursue a course of “folly and unfaithfulness”. But replaced? Knowing that the number “144,000” is most likely a deeply symbolic number of a symbolic book, I don’t believe so. Rev 14:1-3 Also understanding that there were five virgins who were found “foolish” and five who were “wise” could very well signify those who are “armed” for battle in Armageddon. Each side are “gathered and collected together” according to the Arabic meaning of “five”. http://www.balashon.com/2006/05/chamesh.html
These terms seems to signify Armageddon’s war between “kings of the earth” (Rev 1:5), which is fought between those “virgins” who have ‘collected and connected’ with Christ as his Bride, and those who continue to “arm” themselves with Satan’s lies by buying oil/spirit from another source – the false prophet/Harlot and her Beast of Revelation chapter 13. Rev 17:18; 19:19 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rev+1%3A5%3B+13%3A1%2C11%3B+17%3A18%3B+19%3A19&version=CSB
David Splane recently made a broadcasting video on the ten virgins of Matt 25:1-13
He states:
“In the parable there is an interval between the cry, “here is the bridegroom” and the coming of the Bridegroom. Now, what about the fulfillment. When do you think the cry went up, ‘here is the Bridegroom’?
You’re right. 1914”
Just thirteen years ago, Watchtower stated:
Then in 1919 something unexpected happened. We read: “Right in the middle of the night there arose a cry, ‘Here is the bridegroom! Be on your way out to meet him.’ Then all those virgins rose and put their lamps in order.” (Matthew 25:6, 7) Just when things seemed darkest, there was a call to get active! In 1918, Jesus, “the messenger of the covenant,” had come to Jehovah’s SPIRITUAL TEMPLE to inspect and cleanse God’s congregation. (Malachi 3:1) Now, anointed Christians needed to go out and meet him in the earthly courtyards of that temple. It was time for them to “shed forth light.”—Isaiah 60:1; Philippians 2:14, 15. w04 3/1 pp. 13-18
Apparently, Watchtower decided it didn’t happen in 1919, but “new light” shines on 1914, according to Splane. Let’s see when it has really occurred. When Watchtower mentions the anointed must go out and meet Jesus in the “earthly courtyards of that temple”, they are indirectly and in a rather hazy way, referring to Rev 11:1-3
“Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. 2 But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, FOR IT HAS BEEN GIVEN TO THE GENTILES. And they will TREAD the holy city underfoot for forty-two months. I will grant my two witnesses authority to prophesy for 1,260 days, dressed in sackcloth.”
The “holy city”, Zion, is the promised “Jerusalem above”, and God’s Temple. Its members are spiritual “Israel”, the anointed priesthood under the New Covenant. In Rev 11:2 “Gentiles” “tread” on the holy city. An invasive group of people not part of spiritual “Israel” are treading upon and subduing “Israel”, the special possession of God. Rom 9:6; 1 Pet 2:5,9,10; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22; Rev 3:12 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rom+9%3A6%3B+1+Pet+2%3A5%2C9%2C10%3B+1+Cor+3%3A16%2C17%3B+Eph+2%3A20-22%3B+Rev+3%3A12&version=CSB
The graphic Bible definition of “tread”:
A. to trample, crush with the feet
B. to advance by setting foot upon, tread upon: to encounter successfully the greatest perils from the machinations and persecutions with which Satan would fain thwart the preaching of the gospel
C. to tread under foot, trample on, i.e. to treat with insult and contempt: to desecrate the holy city by devastation and outrage
According to Watchtower, “trampling” has been ongoing for centuries down to this day by Christendom’s clergy, as the Man of Lawlessness. Yet we see during the last days, it rebelliously “sits”/”stands” or rules, over the Temple of God. 2 Thess 2:3,4; Dan 11:36,37; Rev 13:1,2 God’s temple “stones” are found within the Watchtower where a spiritual peaceful “paradise” and security are promised, captivating them with “empty philosophy”. Col 2:8; Rev 13:10 Logically, we should find the Man of Lawlessness where the Temple of God resides, persecuting and treading “under foot” with “insults and contempt”, God’s living stones of His Temple. Could it happen within a perceived spiritual paradise? 1 Thess 5:3; Ezek 13:10,15,16
The treading or trampling of the holy city, has another aspect to it. It brings an end to the “constant feature”/“daily sacrifice”, or “sacrifice of praise” to be performed by the holy priesthood. 1 Pet 2:5,9; Heb 13:15 I am sure JWs believe that their “preaching work” is their daily sacrifice of praise. You believe this effort has been amply blessed by God even today. Has Christendom’s clergy done so much damage to you that your preaching work has been eliminated? No. Who’s sacrifices of praise are then being dissolved? The book of Daniel isn’t referring to all JW’s, but only to the “holy ones”, the holy priesthood/Temple of “Israel”. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Pet+2%3A5%2C9%3B+Heb+13%3A15+&version=CSB
“His ARMED FORCES will rise up to desecrate the TEMPLE FORTRESS and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will SET UP the ABOMINATION that causes desolation. Dan 11:31
The “armed forces” are the Gentiles of Revelation 11:2, treading on the Temple/priesthood. Rev 9:1-6 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rev+11%3A2%3B+9%3A1-6&version=CSB
“So when you see the ABOMINATION of desolation, spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place” (let the reader understand),” Matt 24:15
Note: Watchtower’s Greek Kingdom Interlinear says, “THE holy place” (specifically defined as “the, this, that, one, he, she, it, etc “) while NWT says, “A holy place”. Such generalization allows for deceitful diversion from THE ONLY holy place of God – His “living temple”. 2 Cor 6:16 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Cor+6%3A16&version=CSB
Do you, reader, understand? Besides many other scriptures, The Man of Lawlessness and its actions is outlined in Revelation 11:1-3, Dan 11:31, and Matt 24:15.
Ezek 44:6-9 tells us why it is an “abomination”
“Now say to the rebellious, to the house of Israel, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “O house of Israel, let Us have no more of all your abominations. 7 When you brought in foreigners, uncircumcised in heart and uncircumcised in flesh, to be in My sanctuary to defile it—My house—and when you offered My food, the fat and the blood, then they broke My covenant because of all your abominations. 8 And you have not kept charge of My holy things, but you have set others to keep charge of My sanctuary for you.” 9 Thus says the Lord God: “No foreigner, uncircumcised in heart or uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter My sanctuary, including any foreigner who is among the children of Israel”
Read also 2 Chron 23:6; Num 3:10; Lam 1:10 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Chron+23%3A6%3B+Num+3%3A10%3B+Lam+1%3A10&version=CSB
Using this description of an abomination in God’s House, and how others have taken on the role of priest, can you see the correlation?
Gentiles treading THE “holy city” (Rev 11:1,2),
the abomination (“foreigners”) in THE temple fortress (Dan 11:31),
the “abomination of desolation”/”disgusting thing in THE holy place” (Matt 24:15)
Mark 13:14 reads: “When you see the abomination of desolation standing where it should not be” (let the reader understand)
All describe the same event spoken of in 2 Thess 2:4. An exalted group of spiritually “uncircumcised” people have been given power to rule over God’s anointed priests and replace the “daily sacrifice”. They rule over the Temple of God”, offering their own “daily sacrifice”.
2 Thess 2:3,4 - “Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way. For THAT DAY will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the MAN OF LAWLESSNESS is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sitsin God’s temple, proclaiming that he himself is God.”
What day is it speaking of?
“Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him: We ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to be easily upset or troubled, either by a prophecy or by a message or by a letter supposedly from us, ALLEGING THAT THE DAY OF THE LORD HAS COME” 2 Thess 2:1,2
Splane said that day was in 1914. The Watchtower also said it was 1919. 1874 is an even earlier date mentioned in Watchtower’s history as the arrival of the Bridegroom. Although Paul issued this warning to the anointed in Christ since the first century, it is vital at this moment to understand JWs are being deceived by false prophesy. Matt 7:15; Rev 13:11 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt+7%3A15%3B+Rev+13%3A11&version=CSB
To recap, the organization tells you, JWs, that the Man of Lawlessness has been revealed as Christendom’s clergy. Christendom was to blame for “trampling” God’s holy people/Temple/priesthood, resulting in the cry that the Bridegroom had come to the Temple to inspect and cleanse his virgin Bride. Matt 25:1 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt+25%3A1&version=CSB
However, the tide constantly changes in Watchtower literature. Note in the following quote how the holy place/temple being treaded upon has nothing to do with the ten virgins and the Bridegroom in the following WT statement, but is labeled as CHRISTENDOM! Here, the WT turns full circle to explain the “abomination”/disgusting thing/Man of Lawlessness, which as we’ve seen in Ezek 44:6-9 means “foreigners”, or “Gentiles”, taking over God’s House/Temple (Eph 2:20-22)…
…as the UNITED NATIONS!
In speaking of Matt 24:15, WT states:
“In the first fulfillment, the “standing in a holy place” (Matt 24:15) occurred in 66 C.E. when the Roman (GENTILE) army (“the disgusting thing”) attacked Jerusalem and its temple (a place holy in the eyes of the Jews). In the larger fulfillment, the “standing” will occur when the UNITED NATIONS (the modern-day “disgusting thing”) attacks CHRISTENDOM (which is holy in the eyes of nominal Christians) and the rest of Babylon the Great. The same attack is described at Revelation 17:16-18. That event will be the beginning of the great tribulation. Wt 13/7/15 pp 3-8 par 6 The word, GENTILE is my addition to this quote.
Jerusalem’s temple was not only a place holy in the eyes of the Jews, but to the Father. Why would the second fulfillment be anything other than relating to the living Temple of God, and His spiritual “Jews”? God’s Word is consistent in Truth.
Watchtower’s noted scripture of Revelation 17:16-18 speaks of “Babylon’s” Harlot daughters/false prophet and the Wild Beast of Revelation 13, which conquers the holy ones. Rev 13:1; 17:9,12 It is the same beast that has come out of the abyss and “kills” the “two witnesses” - the faithful virgins of Christ - for their testimony to truth. Rev 11:1-3,7; 17:5; 12:17 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rev+17%3A16-18%3B13%3A1%3B+17%3A9%2C12%3B+11%3A1-3%2C7%3B+17%3A5%3B+12%3A17++&version=CSB
The Wild Beast: “It began to speak blasphemies against God: to blaspheme His name and His dwelling — those who dwell in heaven. And it was permitted to wage war against the saints and to conquer them. It was also given authority over every tribe, people, language, and nation.” Rev 13:5-7
Here we see more evidence describing the Man of Lawlessness sitting with authority over the Temple/”saints” of God….and all JWs.
“When you see Jerusalem surrounded by ARMIES, then recognize that its desolation has come near.” Luke 21:20
When you see those under the promised covenant “New Jerusalem”/Temple of God surrounded by the army of “Gentiles” that Revelation 11:1,2 and Dan 11:31 speaks of, then recognize its desolation has come near. Gal 4:26; Rev 12:1 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Gal+4%3A26%3B+Rev+12%3A1&version=CSB
There is only ONE Man of Lawlessness/disgusting thing today – a “Gentile” army/abomination in God’s Temple that has been put in charge of God’s sanctuary as Ezek 44:8 describes. It thrives where this apostasy exists – the organization. Elders “tread” on the Temple of God. Elders have been granted authority by a Wicked Slave to “keep charge” of God’s sanctuary/Temple, in the role of priest. They "keep charge" of the anointed Temple through their submission to comply with the elder's man-given authority to rule over them. Matt 24:48-51 The Man of Lawless has been revealed, in true form and “machination” of Satan. This false priesthood replaces God’s selected priesthood, to the blasphemous point that God’s holy people must obey them, or be “killed” – disfellowshipped. John 16:2; Rev 11:3,7 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt+24%3A48-51%3B+Ezek+44%3A8%3BJohn+16%3A2%3B+Rev+11%3A3%2C7++&version=CSB
Every defining element of the word “tread” listed above, explains and reveals how the Man of Lawlessness/elder body treads upon God’s holy priesthood at the approval of a Wicked Slave.
Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to him, “How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilled—the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the REBELLION that causes desolation, the SURRENDER OF THE SANCTUARY and the trampling underfoot of the Lord’s people?” Dan 8:13
This is clarified by WT statements that I have repeatedly posted on this forum:
“Representing (more specifically, “the giving over of” or “surrendering of”) the royal priesthood (“sanctuary”) are appointed elders, who serve in positions of responsibility in congregations of Jehovah’s people around the earth. These men deserve our respect and wholehearted support, whether they are of the anointed or not. RATHER THAN CHALLENGE THEIR AUTHORITY (a false authority or “rebellion”), we truly appreciate our hardworking elders!” Wt 02/8/1
Did the anointed priesthood have any say in this arrangement? Only the governing body has authorized their army with authority over God’s Temple. Matt 24:48-51; Rev 13:14,15 As long as the authentic priesthood remains under this false rule, they have surrendered their ability to offer independent “daily sacrifices” of praise. Dan 8:12 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt+24%3A48-51%3B+Rev+13%3A14%2C15%3B+Dan+8%3A12+&version=CSB
Review how your Watchtower articles exalt the elder body by brazenly using scriptures that apply to the anointed body of Christ…
“We will be helped to obey and HONOR those taking the lead if we remember that God himself has provided the elders.” w89 9/15 pp. 20-25
…and then “treat with insult and contempt” the anointed, “holy people” of God.
“If we give anointed ones too much PRAISE and attention, we would embarrass them. Or even worse, we could cause them to become proud.” Wt 16/1 pp. 20-26 (please see paragraph 6)
Do you realize that a synonym for the word “HONOR” is “PRAISE”? You are expected to praise and honor men who have robbed God of His daily sacrifices! Mal 3:8,9 Can you see how your obedience to the organization requires that you must leave the anointed alone and focus your attention on the MAN OF LAWLESSNESS? Rev 13:2,4 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rev+13%3A2%2C4&version=CSB
Splane continues in his video stating the Bridegroom comes also in the Great Tribulation. He says:
“But the bridegroom didn’t come just then. When does he come? At the Great Tribulation. How do we know. We know, because in Matt 24 and 25 there are eight references of the coming of the Master and each and every one of them refer to the Great Tribulation. So we’re talking about the Master returning, the Bridegroom coming at the GT and will he find the anointed with their lamps burning, or will they have let their light go out. That is the simple question there.”
It really isn’t so simple. Each Watchtower date taught as the Master’s return was centered around false forecasts of the Great Tribulation and Armageddon. David Splane has saturated your mind with convoluted teachings about the coming of the Bridegroom; enough to give anyone a headache. Watchtower is hiding the true identity of the Man of Lawlessness by using the United Nations and Christendom as the scapegoat. This is the work of Satan, to disguise his plan of destruction against the anointed of God, by fabricating a lie and calling it “truth”. 2 Thess 2:9-12 This great “machination to thwart the preaching of the (TRUE) gospel” is why only a symbolic “five” virgins enter the Marriage Feast. Matt 25:8-10 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Thess+2%3A9-12%3B+Matt+25%3A8-10&version=CSB
The ‘rising up’ (Dan 11:31 ) of the abomination/ disgusting thing that desecrates God’s Temple has been a gradual process accomplished through the two Beasts of Revelation 13. Rev 16:13-15 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Dan+11%3A31%3B+Rev+16%3A13-15&version=CSB
It is NOW, that “a herald in the distance” announces the coming of the Bridegroom. Matt 17:11; Mal 3:1 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt+17%3A11%3B+Mal+3%3A1+&version=CSB
Did you notice how Splane doesn’t address who the herald could be?
It is NOW that the Great Tribulation and Armageddon are at full roar. Outside the city gone “apostate”, the faithful virgins who were “killed” (disfellowshipped) for ‘shedding forth’ their light of truth are unafraid to offer their daily sacrifices before the one true God. Rev 11:3,7 There is no Gentile force to contend with, robbing them of eternal life in Christ. Matt 10:18-22,39 Instead of buying spiritual provisions from a wicked “House Steward”, they prefer to acquire “refined gold” from their one true Master, Jesus Christ. These virgins have realized and admitted their idolatrous sins to an idol/organization, and beg to be cleansed of all lies, by submitting to Christ’s refining words of Truth. Rev 13:16,17; Rev 3:18; Hos 6:1; Mal 3:2-5 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rev+11%3A3%2C7%3B+Matt+10%3A18-22%2C39%3B+Rev+13%3A16%2C17%3B+Rev+3%3A18%3B+Hos+6%3A1%3B+Mal+3%3A2-5++++&version=CSB
If you return to Watchtower’s sited scripture about Matt 24:15 above, and where they site Rev 17:16-18, you will soon see further action of the Man of Lawlessness/elder body collaborating with anointed “ten horns/kings”:
(Rev 17:12,13 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=+Rev+17%3A12%2C13&version=CSB)
“they will hate the PROSTITUTE (FALSE PROPHET of Rev 13:11). They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire. For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to hand over to the BEAST their royal authority, until God’s words are fulfilled. 18 The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.” (“kings of the earth” are the anointed ones - Rev 1:5; 5:9,10) https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rev+1%3A5%3B+5%3A9%2C10&version=CSB
The governing body/Harlot/false prophet is about to go down – DISFELLOWSHIPPED. Yet, before that time, if we perceive the “abomination”/”disgusting thing” standing in the “holy place”, we are to “flee to the mountains” – the symbolic “mountains”, and restored “Temple” of God. Matt 24:15,16; Luke 21:21,22; Isa 43:1; Isa chapter 2 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt+24%3A15%2C16%3B+Luke+21%3A21%2C22%3B+Isa+43%3A1&version=CSB
Going back to the initial quote from the WT leaders, remarking that the unfaithful virgins does not comprise a “large number”, scriptures give us a little insight regarding that number:
Israel’s Light will become a fire,
and its Holy One, a flame.
In one day it will burn and consume Assyria’s thorns and thistles.
18 He will completely destroy
the glory of its forests and orchards
as a sickness consumes a person.
19 The remaining trees of its forest
will be so few in number
that a child could count them.” Isa 10:17-19“Assyria” – Joel 1:2-4; Rev 9:1-12; Rev 13:6,7,18; 2 Thess 2:3,4,7,8 (Matt 13:22; Luke 3:9) https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Joel+1%3A2-4%3B+Rev+9%3A1-12%3B+Rev+13%3A6%2C7%2C18%3B+2+Thess+2%3A3%2C4%2C7%2C8%3BMatt+13%3A22%3B+Luke+3%3A9&version=CSB
“Trees” – Matt 3:10; John 15:16; Luke 21:29-31; Ezek 34:27; 47:6,7; Rev 22:1,2 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt+3%3A10%3B+John+15%3A16%3B+Luke+21%3A29-31%3B+Ezek+34%3A27%3B+47%3A6%2C7%3B+Rev+22%3A1%2C2&version=CSB
On that day the remnant of Israel and the survivors of the house of Jacob will no longer depend on the one who struck them, but they will faithfully depend on the Lord, the Holy One of Israel.
21 The remnant will return, the remnant of Jacob,
to the Mighty God.
22 Israel, even if your people were as numerous
as the sand of the sea,
only a remnant of them will return.
Destruction has been decreed;
justice overflows.
23 For throughout the land
the Lord God of Armies
is carrying out a destruction that was decreed. Isa 10:20-23The five wise virgins return to their Master, Christ – the “Mighty God” of Isa 9:6, and to the Father – Ps 50:1-6
Pearl Doxsey:
“The Disgusting Thing”
“Discerning the Ten Virgins/Called, Chosen and Faithful”
“Christ’s Return, When?”
“The Constant Feature”
“More on Two Witnesses”
4womaninthewilderness
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"A mandated reporter is a person who, because of his or her profession, is legally required to report ANY SUSPICION of child abuse or neglect to the relevant authorities. These laws are in place to prevent children from being abused and to end any possible abuse or neglect at the EARLIEST POSSIBLE STAGE.
Child care providers
Caregivers
Clergy, although clergy-penitent privileged communication is exempt in some areas.
Counselors and other mental health professionals
Medical examiners and coroners
Health care providers
Police and other law enforcement officers
School teachers, coaches, guidance counselors principals and other school personnel
Social workers
Abortion clinic staff (in some states)
In 15 member States (Bulgaria, Croatia, Denmark, Estonia, France, Hungary, Ireland, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Poland, Romania, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden and the United Kingdom) reporting obligations are in place for all professionals.
Wikipedia
Shouldn't reporting obligations include each and every one of us who profess to believe in the love of Christ? Why imitate the Watchtower who hides child abuse under the carpet?
Woe to those enacting crooked statutes
and writing oppressive laws
to keep the poor from getting a fair trial
and to deprive the needy among my people of justice,
so that widows can be their spoil
and they can plunder the fatherless. Isa 10:1,2 -
6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:
Now i come back to the duty of care. For, in my opinion, it is the duty of anyone that has any information concerning child abuse to report it to the police.
John, you are in the UK, right? My son worked for Child and Family Services in the U.S. He has said that the people who decide not to report anything are usually doing more harm than good. In doing some research, the UK has a child protection services - NSPCC. https://www.nspcc.org.uk/preventing-abuse/
"Don't wait until you're certain if you are worried about a child. If you have any concerns or suspicions, contact our free helpline service to speak to an NSPCC counsellor 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.
We will listen to your concerns, offer advice and support and can take action on your behalf if a child is in danger.
You don’t have to tell us who you are if you don’t want to, or you can ask us not to share your name or contact with the police or social services. Find out more about how you can remain anonymous below.
All communications will be recorded and we keep records for 15 years."
Intake protection hotlines are there for anonymous callers who have a concern about child abuse. They put the pieces together to see if its worth calling the police for further investigation. Someone may report seeing something as bruises on a child frequently...and call the hotline available in their area. You can remove the burden of what you have heard by placing the information in hands of those who deal with reports like this every day.
Since this is in text here, it may put a heavier responsibility on you that can already be read in your words. It is not easy to dismiss. As a child-abuse survivor, you know these things - I also know these things. Sometimes going with your gut feelings, while also choosing the right recourse, is the best thing to do all the way around.
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1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:
He gets his information from Pearl Doxsey, a person of whom has been mention several times in some Christian discussions and debate elsewhere. This is the same person who puts forth of what is accursed that is a direct opposite regarding God's Order, and what Orderly Worship entails.
This is the same one has led ones to have no idea who the Assyrians were who tried to confront Hezekiah and the same info pulled from her which led so and so to believe God sent Satan to attack the Egyptians, which is ridiculous and unfounded in the Old Testament, as well as adhere to a doctrine that does not originate with the church.
It is one thing to not agree with someone, that is for certain, but to proclaim teachings and doctrines that has nothing to do with the church Jesus built is another story and such ones need to be corrected in this sense.
Pearl Doxsey is on the same stage as such ones like Jay Smith and David Wood to name a few.
It’s time to tell you, SM, I am not a “he”, but a “she”. It shouldn’t matter though, since anointed are neither “male or female”; but for you, I am sure all “hell” will break lose and you will write me a book about it. Gal 3:28
It is amazing that two worthless anointed women from the WT, are able to discern the man of lawlessness standing in the Temple of God, isn’t it, and continually expose the Man of Lawlessness for what it has done to God’s priesthood. Rev 11:1-3 What was God thinking anyway! Maybe He was thinking that men in their haughtiness who rule the organization, would see just what God meant when Mary proclaimed, “He has put down the mighty from their thrones and exalted the lowly”. Luke 1:52…..
Or when Jesus said, “For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”….Matt 23:12…
Ps 138:6 – “Though the Lord is on high,
Yet He regards the lowly;
But the proud He knows from afar.”
“Orderly worship” concerns the anointed Body of Christ, where again, it doesn’t matter who is female or male. They are all “living stones”. Eph 2:20-22; 1 Pet 2:5,9 I also know many male anointed ones who seem just fine with what I do, or with what Pearl does. They are my brothers in Christ.You are full of misconceptions concerning the anointed and the Watchtower. I am very sorry about this. Also, the two men that you mention are not JWs, nor does it seem they ever were. They are not anointed “priests” of God.
The message in Revelation is to the anointed priests of God and those with them.
- JOHN BUTLER and Srecko Sostar
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On 11/14/2018 at 4:37 PM, Kosonen said:
Hi again Witness,
I was quite strait forward in the last post. And I appreciate the possibility to connect with other anointed as you. Before I was very eager to find other anointed on the internet. And I have found a few. But unfortunately until now all anointed seem to have their own ideas and it is almost always impossible to come to a unified true understanding of the scriptures. I have tried with Robert King at https://e-watchman.com/ and an other brother at http://perimeno.ca/Index_A.htm and there used to be two anointed at http://e-jw.org/index.php and I have met a several more anointed on other forums.
But non of us can come to an agreement with each other. Maybe the time has not come, or the circumstances has not yet made us clear out our own errors?
But I wish that Jesus' words about 5 wise virgins will come true.
And I hope both you and I will be among those.
With best regards Jan
Thanks, Jan. Both perimeno and RK are deterrents from knowing truth for all of us who step out of the WT. At least I believe that. When I realized that they encourage either remaining in the organization and waiting for it to change, I couldn't stomach remaining under a false pretense called truth. I remember RK even stating it was useless to partake. That told me right off, he was not with Christ.
You said it was "Sad that you did not have the courage to confess before the congregation that you had become anointed."
I grew up extremely shy with little self-worth. A shy person does not make waves when something unusual occurs in life. I was never one to draw attention to myself. Even when facing child abuse by a family member, I never told my parents. As I mentioned earlier, I was young when anointed and very new to the organization, not even understanding fully the role of anointed. Eventually, the experience was set aside, since I told myself I was unworthy to be called by God to serve Him and Jesus in such a way.
Since being out of the organization, I have met with anointed to partake in an intimate setting that I would like to believe is how Jesus wanted it. He could have invited every believer, every disciple, to his last supper on earth, but he chose a selected few to be with him who became the foundation of God’s Temple. Matt 16:18; 1 Cor 3:11 I would never partake in the Watchtower where condemnation breathes down the neck of each anointed one. Elders scrutinize and judge who is and who isn’t, anointed.
Anointed do not seek out others who claim to have the same calling, hoping to bond with them. 1 Cor 12:25,26 WT 16/1 par 8
That’s all I wanted to do when I left the organization – to bond with other anointed ones. It seems to me that you also, have this desire. It is natural, it is the attraction to life through Holy Spirit provided by Christ Anointed are the branches of the vine who, if their heart is in the right place, desire to be unified fully as one, with the vine of Christ and with their brothers/sisters. John 15:1-7 This is how the Temple of God is built.
Eph 2:20-22
In WT’s use of scriptures, Paul was writing to the anointed Body. It is their unity and love that is imperative for Holy Spirit to reach each one of them; allowing them to teach all believers. Mal 2:7 Paul speaks of the gifts mentioned in 1 Cor 12, in Romans 12:1-8 also, stating they are “living sacrifices” under one Head, Christ. These living sacrifices, or living stones of the temple, are the priesthood:
As you come to him, the living Stone—rejected by humans but chosen by God and precious to him— 5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 1 Pet 2:4,5
JWs cannot recognize them, or their gifts, when scriptures pertaining to the anointed are used to support the elder body.
If we love the elders and respect their work, we will be obedient and submissive to them.ws12 5/15 pp. 21-26
This includes the called anointed ones of God – those who would be “kings and priests” in the Kingdom if they are faithful to one Master, bearing only one “mark” on their forehead, and not the mark of an organization with its set of ordinances and doctrine. Matt 6:24; Rev 13:15,16; Deut 11:18,19 Does this even make sense that anointed are to obey those not anointed? Who are they to judge those under Christ? When does the switcheroo happen? When do those whom they are to obey now, become subservient to those GOD has already appointed? Rev 3:9 Are God's priesthood to sit back and wait for their appointment as heavenly “kings”? Is that what Paul taught the early anointed ones? Would God appoint “Gentiles” to decide if they are worthy to serve God? Yet, they do this when anointed (and ALL) choose God’s Word over the word of the GB. The elders authority to judge before Christ will at his coming, is the trademark of the Man of Lawlessness – acting as if from God, as if Christ himself. 2 Thess 2:3,4
Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand. Rom 14:4
JWs are to “seek out” the elders, but not the appointed authentic priesthood of God. This is oppression that leads to “desolating” a people. Matt 24:15; Dan 9:27; 11:31
The “man of lawlessness” is not one man, but an army...of elders.
Who passes the anointed ones the emblems? The elders, those not anointed. It wasn’t that way with at the last supper. There is no cohesiveness within the anointed Body because “Gentiles” have come between them. Rev 11:1-3
My point is not to convince others through partaking in front of JWs, but to serve Christ in truth and declare it as he intends God’s true “witnesses” to do so. Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:5,9,10 I am sure you must feel similar, how important that is.
When the symbolic “two witnesses”, those anointed as God’s true Witnesses of “Jacob”/”Israel” (Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:5,9), reveal Truth in Christ (Matt 18:16), and reveal this desolating event, the circumstances for this happening in Isa 43:8-10 coincides with Revelation 11:1-3, 13:10; 16:2
They proclaim there can be “no foreign god” among them. Isa 43:12 No organization with its rules is to come between them and Christ. They announce this “distress” or tribulation that is “different” from any other time in the history of God’s people.
“At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered. Dan 12:1
We conquer this oppression by standing for Truth, even if it means being “killed” by the Beast/organization for not revering its existence. Rev 11:7; 13:4,5,15,18;3:12; 15:2
Sometimes, the identity of Satan’s deceptions can be right in front of us, closer than we first realized.
- JOHN BUTLER and Srecko Sostar
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7 hours ago, Space Merchant said:
A false prophet will speak of such ones as them claiming to be inspired, to which they are not, reasons so because they seek to slander someone, even call them demonic. They will go above and beyond when there is unfounded prophet of their claim. A honest and reasonable man will see for themselves what is being spoken of as either true or false.
For just like in Prophet Jeremiah’s day, many people chose to remain to do things that is not of God while others do the opposite. For such ones they love slander and dishonesty, as with anything brazen under the sun, something of which that is not different in our day.
So who is the slanderer in this sense in this claim of inspired prophet claims - you or them?
2 hours ago, Kosonen said:They don't think about what is right or true. The only thing that matters to them is to obey the GB. The Bible and the truth comes always on the second place.
That is the moment when the truth has ceased to be the truth.
Actually the elders even openly at the meerings said that the unity is more important than the truth. They justify that with saying that Jehovah will anyway later correct everything.
But where will the elders and GB be when Jehovah corrects what it wrong? They might as well find themselves in trouble.
Multiply Kosonen’s experience hundreds of times over, and you, SM, will see why the GB’s apparent contrite, humble words that they are not inspired,and can ( I say “prone” to) err in doctrine…..IS A BIG DEAL.
You have spent much time covering inspired prophets vs. uninspired prophets. As I said, among His people, God doesn’t make a distinction. He calls His prophets, “prophets”. If they “proclaim” a message in His name and it doesn’t come true, He refers to them as “false prophets”. Deut 18:20-22; Matt 7:15-20
Straight and simple.
Are you neglecting the weightier matters of the law of Christ: justice and mercy and faith, as the GB and elder body have?
“These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.”
The organization’s leadership are blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!
Look at the broader picture, SM, and the damage done to those who follow blind, empty teachings, that leaves one in the DARK. Matt 23:23,24; 1 John 1:5
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2 hours ago, Witness said:
I never said they were inspired! I am pointing out that they claim they are NOT inspired! YET, they expect obedience to every word that they “prophesy”.
I must add, being "spirit-inspired" is the result of an anointing. Holy Spirit is poured into one's heart. Rom 5:5 It is alive and active and "inspires" one to understand Christ's truths. 2 John 2:2; 1 John 2:20,27 Holy Spirit "inspires" others to recognize truth when they hear it from one Jesus' sends. John 13:20 For the GB to claim they are not inspired also shows they no longer have Holy Spirit within them, if anointed. 2 Tim 3:5 They are ignorant of its power, but are well versed in "inspiration" coming from a demonic spirit. This is how lies are generated and lies are laced through the teachings of the organization. Their is no other word for false/failed doctrine, but "lies". And lies have no origin in Christ, who is only light. 1 John 1:6;
Woe to those who call evil good
and good evil,
who put darkness for light
and light for darkness,
who put bitter for sweet
and sweet for bitter.21 Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes
and clever in their own sight. Isa 5:20-21"Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me." John 15:4
- JOHN BUTLER and Srecko Sostar
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On 11/12/2018 at 9:39 AM, Kosonen said:
In the first century the temple was a physical place and at the same time there was the spiritual temple, according to the apostles words. So today there exist a physical sanctuary and the fortress. (Daniel 11:30,31) JW broadcast-studio fits well to what is said to be the sanctuary and the fortress is the WT complex in Warwick. And in the same time every anointed is a temple of God, where God's spirit may dwell.
Dear Kosonen,
Dan 11:31 - “His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation.
You believe that JW Broadcasting and Warwick are the identities behind those whose “daily sacrifices” will be abolished? Only one identity in scripture offers “daily sacrifices” – God’s priesthood. Why are you deviating from scripture? Lev 6:8-13; Heb 8:1-6; 1 Pet 2:5,9,10
"In the first century the temple was a physical place and at the same time there was the spiritual temple, according to the apostles words."
You are saying there is a dual fulfillment of two apparent sanctuaries being trampled?
Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”
20 They replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?” 21 But the temple he had spoken of was his body. John 2:19-21
“Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”
No longer are we to recognize a building of any sort as a temple sanctuary; but, this is what you are saying, by calling Warwick a “temple” whose “sacrifices” will be abolished. Also, somehow you are working in the “trampling” of God’s true sanctuary, “living stones” built on the Body of Christ? 1f Pet 2:5,9 Or, perhaps you don’t see this at all.
Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21 In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. 22 And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit. Eph 2:19-22 (1 Cor 3:16,17)
The apostles moved away from the existing temple worship – a “physical place”. It is what the establishment of the New Covenant entailed; yet, you are comparing a system, a covenant, that lasted hundreds of years which Jesus fulfilled at his coming, to the appearance of the Watchtower making its deceptive call just a hundred years ago. He abandoned the “house” because of its sins, and replaced the physical temple with his Body. Matt 26:26-29 Do you believe the WT is under its own covenant with God, just as the nation of Israel was under the law covenant until Jesus arrived? It certainly can’t be the “New Covenant” that Jesus established in the first century, since that promise has been in existence since his last supper with his disciples. Heb 8:13
Any contracted covenant that the WT is under, has a demonic source. Luke 4:5-7; Rev 13:2; 2 Thess 2:9-12; 2 Pet 2:1-3
Our fathers had the tabernacle of witness in the wilderness, as He appointed, instructing Moses to make it according to the pattern that he had seen, 45 which our fathers, having received it in turn, also brought with Joshua into the land possessed by the Gentiles, whom God drove out before the face of our fathers until the days of David, 46 who found favor before God and asked to find a dwelling for the God of Jacob. 47 But Solomon built Him a house.
48 “However, the Most High does not dwell in temples made with hands, as the prophet says:
49 ‘Heaven is My throne,
And earth is My footstool.
What house will you build for Me? says the Lord,
Or what is the place of My rest?
50 Has My hand not made all these things?’“You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you” Act 7:44-51
Any literal building owned by the WT is not the “temple fortress” that loses its “daily sacrifice” by an “abomination” that is set up in it. Dan 11:31. It has never been approved by God as His “House”. He has only one house, one dwelling, in the anointed hearts. 1 Cor 3:16,17 But, by your saying so, are you rejecting Christ as the chief cornerstone of the true House of God? 1 Pet 2:6-8 I do hope this isn’t true. In Dan 11:38,39, the “king” (Rev 13:11) honors a “god of fortresses” (Rev 13:1,4,8) while attacking the “mightiest fortress”, which is the same “temple fortress” in Dan 11:31, and God’s anointed Temple.
The “god of fortresses”, then, is the “spirit-directed organization” and an idol. Rev 13:1,15,4
The fourth Beast of Daniel is “different”, unlike the other Beasts of worldly power. And, Daniel’s description does fit the Beast of Revelation 13:1. But, only one of those “Beasts” in Rev 13, represent the GB – the false prophet with “two horns that speaks like a dragon.” The other is the organization, where the “image” as “spirit-directed” is kept alive by the “breath” the false prophet imparts to the Wild Beast. Rev 13:15
Tell me, how will Donald Trump find out who the anointed ones are, in order to persecute them and remove their “daily sacrifice”, when it is apparent that God’s priesthood cannot not offer “daily sacrifices” as priests now? (Mal 2:7; 1 Pet 2:5,9; Heb 13:15) He has little time left to do this, doesn’t he. You’d think he’d be doing some sort of investigation at this moment, but I’m sure he’s looking for bigger fish to fry. The GB/wicked slave and their henchmen, already keep them well “trampled”; totally obscured from the rest of JWs. Matt 24:48-51 I am anointed, but in the Watchtower I never partook for the years I was in. No one knew that I was anointed. How many more are like me, too afraid to speak up as one of God’s anointed ones, or who give up partaking in a setting that requires no interaction with other members of the anointed Body? Or, having the fear of being pinned down as possibly “mentally diseased”? Has Trump been given such spiritual insight to “know” who is anointed and who isn’t? He’s not even a JW.
And out of one of them came a little horn which grew exceedingly great toward the south, toward the east, and toward the Glorious Land. 10 And it grew up to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and some of the stars to the ground, and trampled them. 11 He even exalted himself as high as the Prince of the host; and by him the daily sacrifices were taken away, and the place of His sanctuary was cast down. Dan 8:9,10
I know you are aware of the power the elders have over the anointed is incredible. They easily “kill” them (disfellowship) for rejecting Watchtower’s lies and proclaiming Christ as their one true Head. Rev 13:7,15; 11:7; Dan 8:25 They have received this authority to do so from the GB; yet ultimately the Beast receives it from the dragon! Rev 13:2; 16:13,14 Thus, they have exalted themselves as high as Christ – as has the GB also (Mark 13:22). Again, the elders are the man of lawlessness of 2 Thess 2:3,4 and Rev 11:1,2; and the “image” of the Beast. Rev 13:15
As a dual power comprised of “iron”/Gentile, and “clay”/”Israel” in covenant with God, Daniel’s fourth Beast has cast truth down to the ground.
Dan 2:40-43; Isa 64:8; 1 Cor 3:9 – “clay”
Ezek 11:12; Luke 22:25,26 – “iron”
Anointed who remain “in Christ”, would speak truth; but as we see, no truth can be spoken by those who are “trampled” and tread upon. John 15:4; Dan 8:13; Isa 3:4,5;5:5-7; Matt 7:6; Isa 63:18; Jer 12:10; Rev 11:2 ; Matt 24:15; Rev 13:7
This is a spiritual captivity that God has allowed to come upon His people for choosing the idealistic expectations of men, to promote their idol. Isa 5:5-7,11-13; Rev 13:9,10; Luke 21:24; Col 2:8; 2 Thess 2:9-12
It set itself up to be as great as the commander of the army of the Lord; it took away the daily sacrifice from the Lord, and his sanctuary was thrown down.12 Because of rebellion, the Lord’s people and the daily sacrifice were given over to it. It prospered in everything it did, and truth was thrown to the ground.
13 Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to him, “How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilled—the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, the surrender of the sanctuary and the trampling underfoot of the Lord’s people?” Dan 8:11-13
This is so evident by the upbuilding of the elder body above and beyond any acknowledgement of who the anointed ones are.
“Now in those times many shall rise up against the king of the South. Also violent men of your people shall exalt themselves in fulfillment of the vision, but they shall fall.” Dan 11:14
Of “Israel”. The anointed are “Israel”. Rev 21:12
Both these kings’ hearts shall be bent on evil, and they shall speak lies at the same table; but it shall not prosper, for the end will still be at the appointed time. Dan 11:27
The Beast from the Earth is a composite false prophet /Harlot who has exalted itself as superior to its “fellow servants”. As Daniel says, these kings will not prosper, but will be exposed for the iniquities they have committed. Rev 13:11; 17:16,17
It is the wicked slave of Matt 24:48-51. The simple fact the GB proclaims only themselves as “faithful and discreet” before the coming of Christ, shows their deception; their speaking lies at the same table which expresses their desire for superiority over all “kings of the earth”- Christ’s “kings”. Luke 19:17; Rev 1:5
Gerrit Loesch - “To appreciate the extent of Jehovah’s and Jesus’ trust in the faithful slave reflect on what he has promised its members. He has promised the immortality and incorruption. Soon, JUST BEFORE ARMAGEDDON the remaining members of the slave will be taken to heaven.”
This only includes the GB. They have no interest in their fellow servants in Christ, but to silence them. Matt 24:48-51; 1 John 3:11,12; 1 Cor 12:14-26
The depictions of people and nations in the Hebrew scriptures provide symbolic characteristics of the Beasts that come against the anointed during Armageddon. We see this when reading about the “two witnesses” who are “killed” by the Beast.
“When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them. 8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.” Rev 11:7,8
See all of Isaiah Chapter 1. God actually compares “Israel” to Sodom and Gomorrah. The “two witnesses” lie in the street of “apostate” Jerusalem, equivalent to “Sodom”. This indicates the Wild Beast/organization’s vast sins. What are the two witnesses proclaiming when “killed”/disfellowshipped? (Rev 11:1-3) The sins of “Israel”, their fall into idolatry/servitude to the organization and its leaders. Also, their failure at remembering who they should be serving instead of an organization, and their blatant disregard for Christ, who bought them with a price; (1 Cor 6:20; 2 Pet 2:1; Heb 6:4-6) The “two witnesses” are also trumpeting the identity of the Man of Lawlessness standing in /treading upon the Temple of God. Rev 11:1-3; 2 Thess 2:3,4,9-12; Dan 9:16
I really hope you reconsider your perception as needing to be spiritual, and not visual. It is not often that anointed are able to find and converse with one another.
Pearl Doxsey - 4womaninthewilderness - ""Gentile Times"/ "Great Tribulation" / Cleansed Priesthood"
Police raid Jehovah’s witness buildings in sexual abuse inquiries
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Posted
On facebook, were two interesting comments regarding this topic.
1. "I was told young, I got baptized at 14, to not call the police because it makes the org look bad and we don't wnt to bring reproach on jehovah...hmmm. Doesn't this sound like what Satan aka "je-hovah" would do...conceal the wickedness and not let justice take place?!
2. "If they say the deed would cause reproach, then they admit that the deed is evil... yet it goes unpunished. How can it bring reproach on God... unless God is the one that committed the crime?
What shames God, is that people to claim to bear His name, let evil thrive, and let victims go without mercy, justice, or comfort."