Witness

6 hours ago, Witness said:

Anna, were all 1006 perpetrators disfellowshipped?

Nope.  Would there have been an inquiry by the ARC if all were disfellowshipped?  Would there be one lawsuit against the WT if a victim's plea for justice was well respected, and decisions were made according to Christ's words to "love your neighbor as yourself"?  

Keep reminding God’s people of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen. 15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. 2 Tim 2:14-16

However, is the GB "ashamed of their detestable conduct? No, they have no shame at all; they do not even know how to blush. So they will fall among the fallen; they will be brought down when they are punished, says the LORD."   Jer 8:12

Anna, were all 1006 perpetrators disfellowshipped?

6 hours ago, Anna said:

Lett didn't say child abuse was apostate lies and propaganda, he wasn't denying there was a problem. What he said was that us denying there is a problem, and ignoring child abuse, is apostate lies.

He said, "As an example, think about the apostate-driven lies and dishonesties that Jehovah’s organization is PERMISSIVE” toward pedophiles.”

How can you dispute this?  Because of their permissive stand, they were called in front of the ARC for not reporting 1006 perpetrators to the police.  Is this not permissiveness?  They are in the courts continually, or settling outside of the courts simply because they have been permissive toward pedophiles residing in the organization.  It appear that a pedophile's behavior did not, does not warrant enough disgust over the damage done to the victim, to turn them over to the police...unless...unless, state laws requires them to.    

Yes, the organization is permissive toward pedophiles.  Their actions prove it.  What's very sad, is JWs believe GOD WILL FIX IT.  People are to "fix" their actions, their beliefs, and approach God on how to do it through Christ.  It is not God's responsibility to correct an organization that is corrupt.  It is our responsibility to correct ourselves by turning to both Christ and the Father.  There's nothing to wait on but judgment, and whether we served God according to Christ's teachings by rejecting the continually failed doctrine of men and their made up "decrees". 

What is "unclean"?  Pedophilia and its permissiveness in the organization.  Leaders who give false "prophesies". Leaders who have muscled their way in between Christ, the anointed, and all.  Giving an earthly entity the title of "salvation".  Disfellowshipping and shunning those who realize NOT TO TOUCH WHAT IS UNCLEAN.  2 Cor 6:17

Does this sound like an organization that has gained God's approval???    

Our "brothers and sisters" cannot save us from the wrath of God.  As much as we want to support them, we each stand before Christ to answer for our choices.  What did the early prophets do?  They spoke a message not favorable to their "brothers and sisters".  They were "sanctified by truth" and they spoke truth, no matter how difficult and how perilous to themselves it may have been. John 17:17  That should be the desire of each one of us, and it is how we walk in the path of Christ.  

The organization is a delusion, a scam, a deceitful "machination" to lead us AWAY from Christ and the Father.  2 Thess 2:9-12   But each heart will make their choice.

 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field;  but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared.  So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.” ’ ”  Matt 13:24-30

Would the "wheat" remain where all those things that are detestable to God, are practiced?  Or, would they turn to Christ?

I was having a conversation the other day, about the weather patterns happening across the United States.  Beginning again today in the western U.S., flooding rain has presented a potential danger of more destruction to occur in the burned over areas, resulting from the previous two years of massive fires.   

The earth can benefit from cleansing fires that rid the unruly undergrowth below a forest’s trees, by only removing the thick flammable brush and weeds, as well as downed diseased trees, making way for new growth, new life.  In various state agencies, the practice of “controlled burns” benefits the soil’s fertility and increases wildlife habitat with new sustainable growth. 

 Those trees that experience a cleansing forest fire, grow stronger and green with life.  I have seen the evidence of this type of fire where I live.  When walking through woods, some of the older trees bear the charcoal marks of a past fire from long ago, that still allowed them to stand and reach great heights.     

However, fires that burn extremely hot, remove all evidence of life.  On earth’s sloping grades -- its hills and mountains -- the land becomes unstable, allowing rainfall of large proportion to wash earth’s soil away.  It moves as a flooding, murky river; which on the California coast, eventually reaches the sea.   

In the Bible, God’s people under covenant with Him, have been and are, compared to elements in nature. They are referred to as trees, the earth, and mountains/hills.    At the time of the end, a messenger is sent to the anointed remnant– these “living stones”/"trees" of God’s Temple sanctuary. Matt 11:10,14; Luke 1:17; Rev 11:3,4; 1 Pet 2:5,9   

 They are “measured” according to God’s Word, fulfilled in the teachings of Christ. Ezek 40:3,20; Amos 7:7,8; Isa 28:17; Rev 11:1,2; 21:15   

God said, “IS NOT MY WORD LIKE FIRE?”—this is the Lord’s declaration—“and like a hammer that pulverizes rock?”  Jer 23:29 

“See, I am going to send My messenger, and he will clear the way before Me. Then the Lord you seek will suddenly come to His TEMPLE, the Messenger of the covenant you desire—see, He is coming,” says the Lord of Hosts. ² But who can endure the day of His coming? And who will be able to STAND when He appears? For He will be like a refiner’s fire and like cleansing lye.”  Mal 3:2

Can you picture this raging “fire” blowing through the forest of “trees”, its intense flames licking at their roots? 

"And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner." (Rev 11:5) 

If God’s people submit to the cleansing fire of His Word, allowing their hearts/“ground”/”earth” to be purified of all lies – of all thorns, weeds and thistles -  they will stand firmly rooted in truth. Luke 8:8; John 17:17; Prov 2:1; 2 Thess 2:15; Rom 14:4; Heb 12:6-11  

They will bear the mark of God, from the necessary refinement needed; to thrive as a faithful priest with roots that grow deep in stable “ground”.    Zech 13:9; Isa 48:10; Col 1:23; Luke 6:45; Deut 11:18; Heb 8:10 

They become forever part of the immovable mountain of God, Holy Zion, as priests who will administer to Him, and to His Son, as the Bride. As the fulfilled covenant, they will be trees of life, bringing “healing to the nations”, to all of God’s children in the Kingdom. Isa 2:1-3; Ezek 47:12; Rev 22:1,2,17; Mal 2:7 

“He will be like a refiner and purifier of silver; He will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver. Then they will present offerings to the Lord in righteousness.”  Mal 3:3

 Yet, many do not stand up and take notice of the fire raging around them.  They are weak, burdened down by the “thorns and weeds” that have grown over them, infiltrating their heart. Prov 4:19; 1 Cor 3:18; Rev 16:15 They face imminent “fiery” destruction.  2 Pet 3:7,10-13  

"Therefore this is what the LORD God Almighty says: "Because the people have spoken these words, I will make my words in your mouth a fire and these people the wood it consumes."   Jer 5:14

What are they doing wrong?   

Jesus said, “If you HOLD TO MY TEACHING, you are really my disciples. ³² Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”    John 8:31,32 

The anointed in the WT have filled their hearts with the words and decrees of men, who have deceived them into accepting their demon-inspired lies. Luke 21:8; Rev 16:13,14   The entire “land” of God has become filled with iniquity, from “Wormwood’s” poisoned waters. (1 Cor 3:9)  Yet, they have become convinced that God will deliver them from all harm.  Jer 6:14  The fiery mark they bear, is that of Revelation’s Beast and its guiding head, the false prophet of Rev. 13:1,2,11-13,16,17. 

Truth in Christ has set those who submit to God’s refining fire, free of false doctrine, failed and replaced teachings; which are thorns and thistles that choke out the Word of God. Matt 13:7,22   Satan has made sure that escaping this tangled captive environment will be difficult.  “Locust/scorpions” deliver the lies that are planted and watered at the root of trees soon to lose foothold on the pure teachings of truth in Christ. Jer 7:4,8; Ezek 44:6-9; Rev 9:7; Nahum 3:17; Eph 4:25,27; Rev 9:1-3

Life-giving water can travel throughout an entire tree, beginning at the root.  “Wormwood’s” teachings reach the heart of the anointed, and can slowly choke the “life” from each one.  Jer 17:13; John 4:10; 7:37,38  

They are allowing false prophets and their “army” to influence and mold their hearts instead of the Father (Phil 1:6; 2:13); leading to weakness and the inability to stand in the day of God’s “fiery” judgment.  Eph 2:10,19-22; Jude 1:15,12,24  

All of the anointed remnant are exposed to this to this time of testing. 1 Cor 3:13; Mark 9:49,50   All JWs residing with them, are also under its effect.  Matt 24:4,5,24,25,21  

“I will come to you in judgment, and I will be ready to witness against sorcerers and adulterers; against those who swear falsely; against those who oppress the widow and the fatherless, and cheat the wage earner; and against those who deny justice to the foreigner. They do not fear Me,” says the Lord of Hosts. 

“Since the days of your fathers, you have turned from My statutes; you have not kept them. Return to Me, and I will return to you,” says the Lord of Hosts.  Mal 3:3-5,7 

Can you understand, JWs, that it is God’s statutes that have been broken the Watchtower.  Would God make up new statutes other than those He gave us in Christ?  Is another Bible being written by your leaders? 

“Now, Israel, listen to the statutes and ordinances I am teaching you to follow, so that you may live, enter, and take possession of the land YHVH, the God of your fathers, is giving you. ² You must not add anything to what I command you or take anything away from it, so that you may keep the commands of the Lord your God I am giving you.”  Deut 4:1,2

 There is, among so many, statutes that God has outlined for His priesthood, that the Watchtower has clearly broken.   

No one is to represent God’s priesthood, but, Wt’s leaders have allowed men not anointed to be your counterfeit priests, which is the elder body. 2 Chron 13:9   

 No one is to “enter” God’s Temple; yet, the elder body has authority to “set itself up” and rules over His priesthood. Ezek 44:6-9; Num 18:7; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 13:5-7  

 We are not to give our allegiance to anything made by men, but JWs dedicate themselves to an earthly organization. Rom 1:25   It rivals the true God in power and authority over YOU.  Spiritual “Israel” and those with them, have become idolaters.  Rev 13:8,4 

  No one is to replace Jesus Christ as the Head of the anointed Body; yet, the GB expects obedience of the anointed priests and YOU, to obey THEM.  Matt 24:24, 48-51; 1 Cor 7:23; Rom 6:16

There are only two choices for the Called and Chosen Anointed:
Remain in union with Christ, be refined, and bear fruit for salvation  (John 15:5; Prov 18:20; Heb 13:15; 1 Tim 4:16)

Or, if they leave Christ (John 15:4,5; Col 2:19), they will eventually have their self-sourced work/doctrines, (OR the rotten fruit of the false prophets whom they follow -Ezek 14:10; Rev 2:23), burned up by the spirit of the truth  (John 5:31; 8:54; 7:18; 15:4,6; 16:13,14)   (Zech 9:4; Rev 14:10).    

Once the lies we may believe and teach, are exposed and consumed by Truth  (Luke 8:17; John 16:8,13-15; Rev 1:1; 22:6; 1 Cor 3:13)

we can either humbly be refined by that fire  (Isa 48:10; Zech 13:9; Mal 3:1-3; Jer 9:7; Mark 9:49; 1 Cor 3:13,15; 1 Pet 1:7; Rev 15:2; John 15:3; Mat 7:24) 

OR, suffer eventual destruction   (Matt 3:12; 13:40; 25:41; 7:26; Luke 3:9; 2 Thess 1:8; Rev 20:9,10,15; 21:8) .  Pearl Doxsey, "Fire From Heaven"

I remember thinking I had found the truth that would set me free when joining the Wt. organization.  What I “saw” with my eyes and heard with my ears, seemed to be the assured promise of life, until one wicked lie after another began encroaching on my heart.  Failed teachings, and men expecting your obedience to them, and to the idol/organization they promote, is captivity.  The combination cannot sustain life. Col 2:8; Gal 1:10; 2 Tim 2:26 

What about you, JWs? Do you realize your foothold in Christ’s pure teachings is eroding away at a very rapid pace?  Ps 69:1,2; Jer 2:13     

There is a mountain of “earth” that is rushing to the sea, being brought down by a flood of lies. Unable to stand when God’s fire culminates, “earth” and its “vegetation”, will be washed down as mud and debris are washed from the side of burned-out slope; soon to be consumed by the sea.  Ezek 6:1-3; Rev 8:7; Matt 24:39   

^“The second angel blew his trumpet, and something like a great mountain ABLAZE WITH FIRE was hurled into the sea. So a third of the sea became blood, ⁹ a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.”  Rev 8:8,9

Because of the severe danger in California during this series of rainstorms, concerted efforts are in place to alert people to leave the area of potential landslides due to torrential rains. They are taking this destructive threat very seriously.  Please, listen to the fiery warning that God’s Word carries to all in the Watchtower organization.  Think carefully on what “words” you fill your heart with.  Are they strictly from the Bible, or are they thorns and thistles delivered by poisoned water, that locust/scorpions to make sure to grow thick within your own heart?  Jer 5:31

Once the counterfeit mountain is “pulverized” by the flaming Word of God,  Mount Zions rises under nourishing rains blessed with life.  Its “trees”/”earth” will be firmly established for eternity.  

 Test Me in this way,” says the Lord of Hosts. “See if I will not open the floodgates of heaven and pour out a blessing for you without measure. ¹¹ I will rebuke the devourer( meaning:  “perhaps locusts”)  for you, so that it will not ruin the produce of your land and your vine in your field will not fail to produce fruit,” says the Lord of Hosts. ¹² “Then all the nations will consider you fortunate, for you will be a delightful land,” says the Lord of Hosts.

  Then those who feared the Lord talked with each other. The Lord listened and took note, and a scroll of remembrance was written in his presence about those who fear the Lord and honor His name. ¹⁷ “They’ll be mine,” says the Lord of the Heavenly Armies, “in the day when I prepare my treasured possession. I’ll spare them, just as a man spares his own son who serves him. ¹⁸ When you return, you will see the difference between the righteous and the wicked, and between the one who serves God and the one who does not.”  Mal 3:16-18

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20 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

If at least two people—the one making the accusation and someone else who can verify this act or

I get the feeling things will remain the same until the GB is gone.   Rev 17:16

On 1/31/2019 at 9:48 AM, Witness said:

On 1/30/2019 at 12:30 PM, Anna said:

I have never heard the organization compared to the "temple" or a priesthood. Can you post a quote indicating this? Jerusalem above is comprised only of the Christ and the anointed in heaven.

 

It is subtle in many ways, Anna.  If the organization is necessary for salvation, then it takes the place of the Temple of God.  Jesus is our salvation, nothing can replace that.  God’s House is his dwelling place, which is found in the “living stones” – the anointed ones.  The organization teaches that IT is God’s dwelling place, since it is “spirit-directed”.

Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 1 Cor 3:16

you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.  1 Pet 2:5

in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, ²² in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit. Eph 2:21,22

Ok, we have heard that the kingdom hall is God’s house.  We hear that Warwick is Bethel; and there are Bethels all around the world.  Bethel means “House of God”. I think what is the most blatant example, was the video about an assembly hall and maintaining it, as compared to the early temple.  I can’t find the video, but it seemed to be filmed in the southwestern U.S.   Although now a new one is up, calling the dedicated assembly hall, a gift from God. 

God has one House/dwelling place – his Temple built on Christ.  Why would he bless and call the material endeavors made by men, “God’s House” when he is building it upon his Son?  John 2:19-22  “Greater than Solomon is here”.  Luke 11:31 Since the organization calls its buildings "God's House", can you see how they replace the true house/dwelling of God?

God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands. ²⁵ Nor is He worshiped with men’s hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things.  Acts 17:24-25

 

@Queen Esther 

1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

2 hours ago, Queen Esther said:

Fact is,  NO JW can make unseen itself in the Kingdom Hall....   Every week, another group is cleaning Jehovah's  Holy-house.  Btw, Jehovah is watching us all, every sec.😀

They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised.Amen.

Greek meaning for "created things" - "the act of founding, establishing, building, etc; creation i.e. thing created..."

For the true temple, House of God, Paul states: 

What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said:

¹⁷ Therefore,

¹⁸ And,

15 hours ago, Equivocation said:

People can understand God's way of thinking also mainly when it comes to decisions and other things, Witness. An example would be making a choice of something that isnt of Jehovah God's thinking vs. Something of man's thinking. 

 

Side note, Jesus' disciples and followers applied God's way of thinking. Why assume it was only Jesus lol?

Thank you for your thoughts.

I believe applying God’s decrees is different than actually knowing Him as a child of God.  Do I know Him enough to understand what it means to praise His name?  I am on the ground floor of comprehending  God as My Rock; since for many years, even though I spoke as such, I relied on an earthly entity to be my “rock”, my fortress. 

Comments by the organization divert the attention from the Rock, to itself:

“As mountains have permanence and are identified often in Scripture with governmental functions, so God’s haven of refuge today is to be found with his theocratic organization.  w82 9/15 pp. 17-22 

I cannot see a clear demarcation between the way the Watchtower corporation is run and the “functions” it provides, and any other governmental function.   Run by a “governing” body, who declare that the “mountainlike organization” is the only source of salvation, can you really believe this shows its leaders have full knowledge of the Father when they exalt the name of an organization, as a “haven of refuge”?  Can I trust such a leadership that robs God of due praise and glory by placing it on something established in Satan’s world?  Do we have two havens of refuge, two choices of salvation?

 “With whom will you compare Me or count me equal? To whom will you liken me that we may be compared?  Isa 46:5

In God is my salvation and my glory; The rock of my strength, And my refuge, is in God.  Ps 62:7

“I will say of the Lord, “He is my refuge and my fortress; My God, in Him I will trust.”  Ps 91:2

Now, I realize the blasphemy of labeling anything earthly as a “haven of refuge”, when only the Father can hold that title.  I am a child who is just beginning to understand and fear the true God.

Jesus said,

“All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.” 

The Pharisees asked Jesus,

 “Where is your father?”   “You do not know me or my Father,” Jesus replied. “If you knew me, you would know my Father also.”  John 8:19

The Pharisees and Sadducees knew and taught God’s decrees, but still Jesus told them they didn’t “know” the Father, because they didn’t accept Jesus.  This taught me an important point; even though I spoke about God and Christ, I was far from knowing either one of them while in the organization.

Yes, the apostles learned about God through Christ.  We can see through scripture that it was progressive.  When I said no one knows the Father except Christ, I was thinking more of my circumstances, and all the anointed during this time period before the end.  I should have been more specific.  The faithful anointed throughout years are fully one in Christ, who is one in the Lord.  John 17:22  They carry the name of God and Christ.  Rev 3:12  They “know” God and the power of His name. 

Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.   John 14:6

I take this seriously.  In order for me to know the Father as His erring child, I must know Christ.  I let go of a “governmental function” and turned my attention to Jesus…AND the Father. 

“But whatever were gains to me I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. ⁸ What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them garbage, that I may gain Christ⁹ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith. ¹⁰ I want to know Christ—yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, ¹¹ and so, somehow, attaining to the resurrection from the dead.

¹² Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. ¹³ Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, ¹⁴ I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.”  Phil 3:7-14

When I rejected the organization, where the anointed spiritual “Israel” resides, this is what happened:

 “All this I have told you so that you will not fall away. ² They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, the time is coming when anyone who kills you will think they are offering a service to God. ³ They will do such things because they have not known the Father or me.   John 16:2,3

Disfellowshipping is a spiritual “killing”, directed by the elders who say they are “offering a service to God” by ousting those who turn fully to Christ.  I view this fulfillment as stepping on the right path to “know” not only Jesus Christ, but also the Father. 

By believing that the organization is a “haven and refuge”, one is “marked” by that name.  By believing that only God is our Rock, I hope to be “marked” by God’s name – to be be found  faithful and victorious in upholding and bearing His name and the name of His Son.  Then, I will confidently “know” God.  Rev 3:8,12

We cannot bear the mark/identity of an organization that we may love…

The dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name.

People worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast and asked, “Who is like the beast? Who can wage war against it?” Rev 13:4

The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise its authority for forty-two months. ⁶ It opened its mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander His name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. Rev 13:5,6

…which disfellowships those who refuse to bear its identifying “mark”, expecting them to only “buy” their brand of spiritual food…

It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, ¹⁷ so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.  Rev 13:16,17

and also bear the “mark” of God:

Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. ⁵ Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. ⁶ These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts. ⁷ Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. ⁸ Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads. ⁹ Write them on the doorframes of your houses and on your gates. 

To begin knowing God and His decrees/commandments fulfilled in Christ, we must begin by knowing, and turning to, Jesus Christ.  I fully believe it can’t be accomplished in the Watchtower organization that relies heavily on the thinking of men.

6 hours ago, Anna said:

Who does that?

False prophets (he did prophesy), false "christs", wolves in sheep's clothing, having a form of godliness but denying its power.  Matt 24:11,24; 7:15; 2 Tim 3:5

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

How do you know they were not anointed ? 

How do we know they were? You have a point, since an anointing is usually a private thing between God, Jesus, Holy Spirit and the person.

 Truthfully, I can't say, although I believe many/most were not anointed.  That day a big deal was made about who were anointed.  Just think of how many followers Christ had in the days that he chose the small group that he did.  They were baptized, but not anointed.

But, here is more about the event surrounding the Pentacost:

 And through the hands of the apostles many signs and wonders were done among the people. And they were all with one accord in Solomon’s Porch. ¹³ Yet none of the rest dared join them, but the people esteemed them highly. ¹⁴ And believers were increasingly added to the Lord, multitudes of both men and women, ¹⁵ so that they brought the sick out into the streets and laid them on beds and couches, that at least the shadow of Peter passing by might fall on some of them. ¹⁶ Also a multitude gathered from the surrounding cities to Jerusalem, bringing sick people and those who were tormented by unclean spirits, and they were all healed.  Acts 2:12-16

Many believers of Christ did the same thing, but again, they were not chosen to receive an anointing – just the apostles at that time.

If the Father is the God of the living, (Luke 20:38) which includes all of Abraham’s seed, how do we learn to be among the living if we don’t follow Christ’s teachings, including the teachings about the anointed who will serve the needs of God’s children in the Kingdom? 

If we were to learn about the general curriculum necessary for someone to become a specialized doctor, would it help us if we have to visit one of them?  I think so.  Learning about them is a curriculum in itself, that can be advantageous when we need their help, and it may give us insight on their credibility. 

Understanding the anointed, and the help they are to give those not anointed is really what it’s all about – how they will become approved to serve as “New Jerusalem” bringing living sustenance from God, to all who are among the living.    It is also to our advantage if we want to be among the living, to use Jesus’ teaching points, as well as those of the apostles, to help us spot the false teachers; the ones that go astray and deviate from Jesus Christ. 

So, the Bible is written for everyone who desires to gain eternal life.  We all must turn to Christ to receive it.     Here are a few more scriptures that include those believers not anointed:  Heb 6:10; 1 Cor 1:2; Matt 25:37-40

20 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Where does the scriptures actually talk directly to the earthly class ?  And i mean to not about. 

 There were many believers in Christ who were baptized, but not all were anointed. I like Acts 2, the Day of Pentacost,  as a good example. Everyone hearing the “great rushing wind”,  question the kerfuffle going on, and Peter explained what happened inside by quoting Joel 2. 

 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. ³⁹ For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”  

And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation.” 41 Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them.  Acts 2:38-41

21 hours ago, Anna said:

Well yes, that's because the other sheep weren't figuring in the equation yet. But as soon as they were,  they supported Christ's anointed.

The “other sheep” were figured in prophetically.

 ^“But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; ¹⁰ for you once were not a people, but now you are the people of God; you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.  1 Pet 2:9,10

There was a merging of “sheep” – the physical Jews and physical Gentiles, that all became one “flock” of spiritual “Israel” under their High Priest, Jesus Christ.  They are the anointed ones.  John 10:16

I don't want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you will not be conceited: A partial hardening has come upon Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.  Rev 11:25

1 Cor 12:12-14 - For just as the body is one and has many parts, and all the parts of that body, though many, are one body -- so also is Christ. 13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body -- whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free -- and we were all given one Spirit to drink. 14 Indeed, the body is not one part but many.

Rev 14:1

21 hours ago, Anna said:

I don't know what you mean by that they must sacrifice their life for the rest of the Children. Wasn't Christ sacrifice all that was needed for ALL the children? The scriptures you cite don't explain anything you are saying here. All Christians should follow the path of Christ, regardless of them being anointed or not.

You’re right, all Christians should follow the path of Christ.

But, when the Bridegroom and the Bride become one, a family begins.  The Bride of “144,000”, are also members of Christ’s body, becoming one in him.  They suffer the same, they sacrifice their lives also for the rest of God’s children to come from the union with “her” Husband.  They are to imitate his sacrifice.  As members of Christ, they no longer belong to themselves, but only to Christ as one with him, so they suffer as he did.   Rom 12:1; 2 Cor 5:15; Rev 6:9; Rom 6:3  Christ’s sacrifice applies initially to his “brothers”, yet also to everyone. 

By his own choice, he gave us birth by the word of truth so that we would be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.  James 1:18

 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. ¹⁹ For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. ²⁰ For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, ^[i]in hope ²¹ that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. ²² For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now. 

The “birth” of the Kingdom is evident not by a date, but by the “labor pains” each anointed one suffers at the hands of Satan. Once the last of each one conquers him by their loyalty to Christ, the New Covenant promise of life becomes a fulfilled reality.  The Kingdom is born.  Rev 12:10

 And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body. Rom 8:23

The “Bride” then, as “New Jerusalem” in God’s spirit, and without “labor pains” brings forth the rest of Abraham’s seed.  The anointed are the “firstfruits”, but more of Abraham’s seed is to come. 

“Before she was in labor, she gave birth;
Before her pain came,
She delivered a male child.
⁸ Who has heard such a thing?
Who has seen such things?
Shall the earth be made to give birth in one day?
Or shall a nation be born at once?
For as soon as Zion was in labor,
She gave birth to her children.
⁹ Shall I bring to the time of birth, and not cause delivery?” says the Lord.
“Shall I who cause delivery shut up the womb?” says your God.
¹⁰ “Rejoice with Jerusalem,
And be glad with her, all you who love her;
Rejoice for joy with her, all you who mourn for her;
¹¹ That you may feed and be satisfied
With the consolation of her bosom,
That you may drink deeply and be delighted
With the abundance of her glory.”  Isa 66:7-11

Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. ³ And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.  Rev 21:2,3

“And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.”  Rev 22:17

21 hours ago, Anna said:

I did make a distinction between those anointed on earth, and those in heaven. I said the anointed in heaven are very different from anyone on earth.  The anointed on earth have a calling to heaven, but until they are sealed at the time of their death, they are not part of Jerusalem above yet. The anointed can fail in their faith just like any other Christian. I do not subscribe to the once saved always saved ideology. It's not scriptural. In the first century there were anointed ones who left the faith. However, once sealed and in heaven, they have immortality. But while on earth they do not.

Yes, they can fail and they are tried severely by Satan, who hopes they do fail.  He hoped Christ would fail when tempted in the wilderness.  They must conquer all his deceitful traps and pressures, put upon them.    Rev 3:12

Do you think Judas’ heart was “sealed” while on earth, by his stand with Satan? What about the Pharisees?  Luke 22:3; John 19:15   The anointed become sealed when they clearly accepted Christ as their King. They listen only to him, accepting only him as their Master.  They hear only his voice, and God's. They obey only Christ, not men who want their seal upon an anointed one's head through obedience to them.   Rev 14:1; 13:15,16  It is the same with all of us.  

 Sealing can happen while still on earth.

2 Cor 1:22 - He has also put his seal on us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a down payment.

These sealed ones can be part of  “heaven”, since it is a spiritual state and not a place.  Heb 12:22-24

Once sealed, they voice truth as Christ’s priests and kings “on the earth”.  Rev 5:9,10; 15:3; Eph 6:14-17

Jacob (“Israel”) had a dream of angels from heaven “ascending and descending” on a ladder. Gen 28:12 Jesus said these angels would be ascending and descending upon the son of man.  John 1:15  Remembering that the Bride/“Israel”, which is New Jerusalem comes “down out of heaven”, can you see that these angels are the “144,000” on earth, but also in heaven? 

To Jacob, the promise was given:

 And behold, the Lord stood above it and said: “I am the Lord God of Abraham your father and the God of Isaac; the land on which you lie I will give to you and your descendants. ¹⁴ Also your descendants shall be as the dust of the earth; you shall spread abroad to the west and the east, to the north and the south; and in you and in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed. ¹⁵ Behold, I am with you and will keep you wherever you go, and will bring you back to this land; for I will not leave you until I have done what I have spoken to you.”  Gen 28:13-15

Angels are defined as messengers, which the priests of God are; teaching the people the laws of love written on their heart.  Mal 2:7  They do this as “ministering spirits” - as the Bride coming down out of heaven, delivering the "water of life" to the rest of Abraham’s seed who inherit salvation.   Heb 1:14; Rev 22:17

21 hours ago, Anna said:

I have never heard the organization compared to the "temple" or a priesthood. Can you post a quote indicating this? Jerusalem above is comprised only of the Christ and the anointed in heaven.

It is subtle in many ways, Anna.  If the organization is necessary for salvation, then it takes the place of the Temple of God.  Jesus is our salvation, nothing can replace that.  God’s House is his dwelling place, which is found in the “living stones” – the anointed ones.  The organization teaches that IT is God’s dwelling place, since it is “spirit-directed”.

Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 1 Cor 3:16

you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.  1 Pet 2:5

in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, ²² in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit. Eph 2:21,22

Ok, we have heard that the kingdom hall is God’s house.  We hear that Warwick is Bethel; and there are Bethels all around the world.  Bethel means “House of God”. I think what is the most blatant example, was the video about an assembly hall and maintaining it, as compared to the early temple.  I can’t find the video, but it seemed to be filmed in the southwestern U.S.   Although now a new one is up, calling the dedicated assembly hall, a gift from God. 

God has one House/dwelling place – his Temple built on Christ.  Why would he bless and call the material endeavors made by men, “God’s House” when he is building it upon his Son?  John 2:19-22  “Greater than Solomon is here”.  Luke 11:31 Since the organization calls its buildings "God's House", can you see how they replace the true house/dwelling of God?

God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands. ²⁵ Nor is He worshiped with men’s hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things.  Acts 17:24-25

21 hours ago, Anna said:

??? Haven't the great crowd always supported and helped the anointed? Especially at the beginning when there were more anointed than the great crowd? Now the anointed are in a minority, but the great great crowd still supports them, they work side by side.

If the little flock and the “other sheep” are the anointed, they are the “great crowd” that successfully conquers (this is why they are “great”) Satan by riding with Christ; the faithful remnant wearing white robes.  To prove it, see Rev 7:15  They are found “before the throne” serving in the temple of God, where He dwells among them.

I ask all JWs, to wipe the slate clean of all false doctrine and start anew asking God and Christ for direction on knowing what is truth and what is a lie.   

JWs don’t recognize the important role they are to lead right now.  They are clueless as to what they are suppose to do for Christ.   Someone else is directing knowledge about them and to them.  The anointed and JWs, are following in the footsteps of men and not those of Christ.    The GB say they are the “faithful steward”.  I’ll say it again, to understand what a steward or manager of a house or ship does,  ask yourself, do they accomplish all the tasks to provide everything necessary to keep the house members or the ship’s guests satisfied? No, a steward gathers provision from all servants, and then distributes as needed. 

The GB, out of selfish pride, “will not dig” and is “afraid to beg”, the other servants for provisions.  Luke 16:1-4   They squander away “what is another man’s”  that God bestowed on each anointed one at their anointing; thus, they are the “wicked steward”, the “wicked slave”. 

21 hours ago, JW Insider said:

These interpretations of prophecy, also, were not written in such a way that they were open to questioning. There was one explanation and it was "the truth" until he changed it.

As a christened "oracle" (by Karl Klein), his words were not those of God, although leading millions as though they were; like you said, as “truth”. 

Someone who had an extraordinarily dark relationship with Franz as a girl, and who's story would most likely never be accepted as reality by JWs, said that he kept a deck of tarot cards in his desk.  It is speculation on my part, but perhaps Mr. Klein also saw the cards, which contributed to calling Franz the “oracle”.   

Nourishing spiritual food?  Not at all.  Isa 8:19-22

20 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I mean on change that is visible in aspects as; Kill "apostates"  vs turn the other cheek, love your enemies, etc.    100% change

I think I see now what you’re saying.    Jesus raised the bar to exceed the written laws given to the Jews, allowing sinless perfection in love to be obtained through the writing of the laws on the heart. Heb 10:9-18  He introduced a New Covenant, one where we worship in spirit and truth, sanctifying us through truth. 

The Pharisees were good at tweaking, bending and adding to God’s laws, making the load impossible for the people bear.  It all sounds very familiar 😊   The organization has done the same thing with the teachings of Christ.  It spiritually murders, steals, covets and commits spiritual adultery by bending Christ’s decrees to be supplemented by the decrees of men.  A mediator for salvation comes between Christ and ourselves – the organization. 

Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. ⁹ The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” ¹⁰ Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.  Rom 13:8-10

Yet, if this new “law” in Christ is broken, God’s Spirit of protection is removed and condemnation follows.  God has given the judgment to Christ, but the executor is Satan, the Destroyer, and always has been. 1 Cor 10:8-11 

I always remember Moses’ words to a stubborn people, forever sinning against God’s decrees  –

I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live; ²⁰ that you may love the Lord your God, that you may obey His voice, and that you may cling to Him, for He is your life and the length of your days; and that you may dwell in the land which the Lord swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give them.”  Deut 30:19

⁶ Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. John 14:6

While he was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them; and suddenly a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Hear Him!”  Matt 17:5

21 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

Is God going to do something that is NOT the most timely and most fitting thing for him to do? The paragraph started out saying how "appropriate" it would be for Jehovah to do this. Is Jehovah going to do something that is NOT appropriate, or LESS appropriate than what is appropriate for him to do?

Isa 55:8,9; Num 23:19

Fred Franz had more faith in himself, than in God.  Prov 3:5,6

For the one individual here that deliberately use more than one identity to deceive (excluding TTH who does it out of jest) why would anything that person say be trustworthy, especially if "he" claims to represent "the truth".  Birds of a feather...

On 1/29/2019 at 1:50 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

?? He changed Law. From Mosaic to Christ law. for example :))

Well true, but nothing changed, only fulfilled in the one man's teachings.  

“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.   Matt 5:17-19

On 1/26/2019 at 3:40 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

Did He saw what things will take place in the future

or

did He saw what things will not take place in the future?   

:))))

Both.    Isa 46:10; Prov 24:12; 1 John 3:20

On 1/28/2019 at 5:56 PM, Equivocation said:

If you don't understand God's thinking then it would pose as a problem. And you have time to do this, and if not, well you'll be outta time, my guy.

Who understands God's thinking.? Only Christ does.  If we deviate whatsoever from his teachings, how can we even begin to understand God's thinking? 

“Who is this that obscures my plans
    with words without knowledge?
3 Brace yourself like a man;
    I will question you,
    and you shall answer me.

4 “Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
    Tell me, if you understand.  Job 38:1-4

7 hours ago, Anna said:

I think the WT that talked about the anointed wished to highlight that there is no difference between the anointed still on earth, and the earthly class, apart from their future destinations. So if there is no difference, it logically figures that they are all domestics, whether it be the anointed scattered throughout the earth, the earthly class, or the anointed members of the GB. Obviously once in heaven, they are very different from the earthly class, in every way.

A situation that I think (in my mind) kind of illustrates the “domestics/anointed/FDS rolled into one” idea is when during the memorial (I am only using the memorial for the purpose of an example, not any significance that it is the memorial) emblems are passed around. Towards the end, the attendants who have been passing the emblems around also need the emblems to be passed to them.  All this is done in a symbolic way of course, but the point is that their function as emblem distributors is just a logistical function to get the emblems from platform, to one row to the next, and then back to the platform.

At the last supper that Christ had with his apostles, Judas was present before the New Covenant was introduced to those he had chosen. Mark 14:17-21; John 13:27  He facilitated the wishes of the Pharisees, by turning Jesus over to be killed that very night.   Judas was doomed to destruction , meaning he was the “son of destruction”.  John 17:12

Comparatively, the men who pass out the emblems to those chosen under the New Covenant – the anointed ones - perform the wishes of the GB to disfellowship them when exposing their lies. Disfellowshipping is a spiritual “death”. Rev 13:15  These are the men who say they “REPRESENT” the priesthood of God. (WT 02/8/1)   If we represent someone, we should know what important matters should be voiced, no?  Instead, the anointed must OBEY the men who REPRESENT them, with no questions asked.   

5 hours ago, Anna said:

"...there is no partiality with God"- Romans 2:11

Rom 2:11 - Paul wrote to the anointed, both to Jews and the Gentiles at the merging of these two peoples into the anointed Body of Christ.  This is why he said “God shows no favoritism”. In the Watchtower, favoritism is how the organization is operated, through the use of titles and special recognition not based on scripture; and the elder body is “favored” over the anointed ones.  The GB is "favored" over  the anointed ones.  

The commission to preach about the Christ was given to those Jesus chose, and filtered down to all anointed as their task to perform as a “special possession” of God.  Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:5,9  You say there is no difference, but I doubt you understand that the anointed must follow the path of Christ.  They must sacrifice their life for the rest of the children to come. Rev 12:1  This demand isn’t put upon all believers, is it.  Do you know what the fulfillment of the New Covenant brings to all of God’s children?  “Healing of the nations”.  How?  By “New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven” as the Bride.  Rev 21:2  Who comprise New Jerusalem? Who are the dwelling of God? 

 While you believe there is no distinction needing to be made between the anointed and all believers in Christ, it wasn’t so in the apostle’s day.  The commission to preach was given to them.  Men have changed the scriptures to suit their idol.  Men, who are destroying the Temple of God by replacing it with the elder body and an organization.    1 Cor 3:16,17; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 13:11

The early temple was the center of worship.  Today’s “center” of worship are the anointed, since scripture says they are the dwelling place, God’s Temple, through the blessing of Holy Spirit within their heart. 1 Cor 3:16,17   If they are connected to their Head, living water of truth would flow freely as they teach, reaching each hearer thirsty for life’s freely given waters.  John 4:10-14  This is worshiping in “spirit” and in truth.  John 4:23,24  They are the “trees” of life that Ezek 47:12  mentions – trees becoming one with Christ, who is the primary tree of life.  Gen 2:9; Rev 22:14

JWs believe the organization is their “temple”, complete with a false priesthood and “christs”. Matt 24:24  This is why the anointed are considered useless and no different than all JWs, until the coming Kingdom of God.  

Her priests do violence to my law and profane my holy things; they do not distinguish between the holy and the common; they teach that there is no difference between the unclean and the clean; and they shut their eyes to the keeping of my Sabbaths, so that I am profaned among them.  Ezek 22:26

By the organization teaching that the anointed are just along for the ride, Jesus’ answer to those who failed to recognize these “living stones”, reverberate loudly,

“Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ ⁴⁵ Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ ⁴⁶ And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”  Matt 25:44-46

Most assuredly, I say to you, he who receives whomever I send receives Me; and he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me.”  John 13:20

This does not include a GB that has already marked their place in heaven. 

4 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

However what about the idea that ALL of the Anointed are the FDS and are 'over' those of the Earthly class ? 

But then we would still have to find the TRUE Anointed first.  

If there is not a clear demarcation of the priesthood/anointed ones in the organization, we have to ask ourselves why.  In Israel, it was evident who were of the line of Aaron and who should serve as a priest.  If the Watchtower organization belongs to God and Christ, then again there would be no question who his priests are, under our High Priest, Christ. 

Jesus said you will recognize those whom he sends by their fruits – their teachings as his priests.  Mal 2:7; 1 Pet 2:5,9; John 13:20; Matt 7:15-20   He also said there would be a ruling power over them during the last days that would remove their “sacrifices” of praise; their voice, before God and Jesus.   Dan 7:7,8,21,23,25; 8:10; Rev 13:1,11; Heb 13:15

Not until his priests speak up using their spiritual voice in defense of Christ; causing them to be “killed”/disfellowshipped and detached from the ruling power,  (John 16:2) will we then have the ability to hear/see their fruits.  In the organization, the anointed priesthood is kept under lock and key in obedience to the counterfeit priests, the elder body, and a wicked slave.  Rev 13:11-15 

This results in anonymity.  Would God’s organization allow this to exist? 

“But you and your sons with you shall attend to your priesthood for everything concerning the altar and inside the veil, and you are to perform service. I am giving you the priesthood as a bestowed service, but the *outsider who comes near shall be put to death."  Num 18:7

“Have you not driven out the priests of the LORD, the sons of Aaron and the Levites, and made for yourselves priests like the peoples of other lands? Whoever comes to consecrate himself with a young bull and seven rams, even he may become a priest of what are no gods. 2 Chron 13:9

This early arrangement of worship was made according to the “heavenly pattern” shown Moses on the mountain.  We now have a superior High Priest, the cornerstone of the Temple of God. Heb 7:26  His “living stones” /priesthood of that Temple must be servants only to their High Priest and God. 1 Cor 3:16,17   If the Watchtower organization belongs to God, we would clearly see this in action.  Instead, we see the power of men publicly announcing to God’s priesthood, not to BOND together under their only High Priest, Jesus Christ.  This is all accomplished under a cloak of divine direction. 

Who would be behind this idea, the backbone promoting a lie?  Who does not want to see the coming Kingdom of God and the fulfillment of the New Covenant promise (“woman”)?  Gen 3:14,15; Rev 12:7,9,17

Who can easily dupe people with the offer of riches, power and authority; which during the time of the end, conquers God’s priesthood with lies?  Luke 4:5-7; Matt 24:24; Rev 13:11,12,1,2,5-7; 2 Cor 11:14,15

6 hours ago, Anna said:

The earth is a big place, I would assume anointed members like to live in their place of choice. Or do you think they should all live in a compound?

Well, they do live in a big compound, the Watchtower organization. Rev 13:1 Even though scattered throughout the world, they are still “gathered” under an oppressive rule.  Rev 13:5-8; 16:13-16

Are the “helpers” of the GB all anointed, or are any of them anointed?   Is the writing staff made up of anointed ones?  It seems to be something that could be accomplished, if it is God's organization.

6 hours ago, Anna said:

That's utter nonsense. The anointed are free to do as they wish, like any other member of the congregation. Their identity is revealed, whether they like it or not, when they partake of the emblems at the memorial. 

I hope someday soon you open your eyes. 

Watchtower 1/16 pp. 22-27:

Jehovah’s holy spirit helps his servants to be humble, not proud. (Colossians 3:12) So anointed ones do not think that they are better than others.  (simplified version)

Is it pride to speak truth that comes from the heart?  What about the elders?  Are they not given “honor” for their exalted position over God’s chosen priesthood,  while the anointed are told to be “humble”?   What they really mean, is, “listen, obey and be blessed”…by the governing body.

They know that Jehovah does not necessarily give anointed ones more holy spirit than he gives his other servants. And they do not feel that they can understand Bible truths more deeply than anyone else.

Not according to scripture.  Holy spirit is poured into the heart of the anointed one.  This is what an anointing is.  God’s laws are written on their heart to allow them to teach believers.  Mal 2:7; 1 Pet 2:5,9; Heb 8:10 (please read)  If they are united together, able to speak and meet together as one body under Christ, their High Priest, they all receive Holy Spirit and knowledge from the vine. Rom 12:3-8; 1 Cor 12:4-31; Eph 4:12; John 15:5  This is no different than what the early anointed ones were able to do under Paul’s direction, but in the case of the GB, it is pure threat to their counterfeit headship.

But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.  1 John 2:27

The Watchtower declares this the desire to bond (at the prompting of Holy Spirit) as the desire to become part of an “elite club”, which is exactly what the governing body has accomplished – an elite closed-door club that judges and condemns God’s priesthood for speaking what is in their heart, for seeking out their brothers and sisters in Christ. 

In addition, anointed Christians do not view themselves as being part of an elite club. They do not seek out others who claim to have the same calling, hoping to bond with them or endeavoring to form private groups for Bible study.

When someone realizes they are anointed, do you know who interrogates them?  The elder body who are not anointed.  They must accept and approve, that this individual can and will partake.  As I’ve said before, many don’t partake because of possible negativity coming from the elders.  Firstly, In a sea of 150+  people on a memorial night, there may be 0-2 who are anointed. Where do all eyes strain to look when someone partakes?   What doubts, what questions arise in a JW’s mind?  I’ve heard the gossip about partakers, I know the elders have been known to threaten and prevent an anointed one from partaking.

Don’t believe me?  How many elder pedophiles have been well hidden by the organization? How many victims have been threatened if they were to report a perpetrator to the police?  Their given role is one of authority that can’t be questioned, whereas the anointed are scrutinized thoroughly.  Why?  Men didn’t appointment them, it can’t be seen so why believe it?  Elders are visibly christened as “priests” to replace the appointed priests of God’s Temple.  1 Cor 3:16,17; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1,2

Secondly , who did Jesus invite to the Last Supper?  Every believer, or only those he chose?  Shouldn’t the memorial be observed as it was on that night?  Matt 18:20  Who manipulates how the memorial is observed?  A "wicked slave" and its henchmen who carry out their wishes.  

Jesus is the cornerstone of the Temple, the apostles and prophets are the foundation.  The remnant of these “living stones” are the anointed who if faithful only to their Head, Jesus Christ will complete the “captstone”.  Zech 4:7-10    What right to do men have who are not anointed, to direct their worship?  

“Therefore, it would be embarrassing for those with a heavenly calling if others were to give them undue praise or attention. Worse still, if they received special treatment, anointed Christians might find it difficult to remain humble.”

I would say it is the elder body that is given special treatment, wouldn’t you?

6 hours ago, Anna said:

More nonsense. They can dispense as much spiritual food as they like, to anyone they like.  Throw them out? What, where, how? Such nonsense....

 

Do you really believe an anointed one who perceives scriptures differently than the regulated spiritual commerce coming from the GB can do this, with no questions asked?  Many anointed are disfellowshipped for doing so.  I was.  Rev 13:6,7,15 

 Spiritual food in the organization is managed, just as literal money is managed in a pyramid scheme.  One can “buy” regulated spiritual food through their dedication to the organization (becoming slaves to men Acts 5:29) which comes down from the top. God and Christ have no hand in this type of commerce.    They “sell” to others using the specified “products” – literature, doctrine, etc.  And, as in a pyramid scheme, no one watches their back.  

Wikipedia:

“Companies that use MLM models for compensation have been a frequent subject of criticism and lawsuits. Criticism has focused on their similarity to illegal pyramid schemes, price fixing of products, high initial entry costs (for marketing kit and first products), emphasis on recruitment of others over actual sales, encouraging if not requiring members to purchase and use the company's products, exploitation of personal relationships as both sales and recruiting targets, complex and exaggerated compensation schemes, the company and/or leading distributors making major money off training events and materials, and cult-like techniques which some groups use to enhance their members' enthusiasm and devotion”

Translate this into the Watchtower realm of the “buying and selling” of spiritual provisions sourced in men’s doctrines from the parent ‘company’, Satan, (men’s doctrines that change regularly are not from the Father or Christ, but from their lying father.)…

…the “high initial entry cost” of forfeiting one’s identity over to an organization, “exploitation” – the oppressive treatment of Christ’s brothers under a wicked slave, and certainly an “exaggerated compensation scheme” called “peace and security” that all buy into. Rev 13:16,17; Matt 24:15,48-51; Dan 8:10; Rev 11:2; 2 Cor 11:3,4; 1 Thess 5:3; Jer 23:17 

Do you care about the Kingdom to come?  Then, get to know the role that anointed ARE to play in this fulfillment and the perils they face not in the world of politics, but at the hands of their own people.  The Temple of God, which the anointed are, is a "holy place".  (1 Cor 3:16,17)  The "disgusting thing standing in the holy place" are the elders - "man of lawlessness" who rule over them.   Matt 24:15,16  Do you believe in God's Kingdom the elders will "rule" over the anointed  "priests and kings"?  Rev 5:9,10   Then why now?  

21 hours ago, Anna said:

The FDS being only the members of the GB make practical sense as most of the other anointed are scattered all over the earth and are in different time zones, so to expect for them to sit in on, and contribute to the dispensing of spiritual food would be unrealistic. In any case, I don't think everyone of the other anointed, with a few exceptions, ever contributed to the dispensing of spiritual food (apart from their own preaching, just like all the other Witnesses), so it has always been symbolic anyway.

Can't you see this as the perfect setup for a "Wicked Slave" to wield authority over Christ's other slaves?  Matt 24:48-51  It shows the organization for the scam it is; not only are the anointed scattered, they CANNOT bond, according to your magazines.  They cannot reveal their identity as one of Christ's slaves.    That would threaten the rule of the GB.  Yes, it is clever how the anointed in the organization are unable to "dispense spiritual food", even if by letter form to the ruling authority.  Luke 22:24-27  It is easier to throw them out, rather than let them gather and bring their own spiritual food to the table.  John 16:2    

19 hours ago, Kosonen said:

Isaiah 66: 5  Hear the word of Jehovah, you who tremble at his word:“Your brothers who hate you and exclude you because of my name said, ‘May Jehovah be glorified!’ But He will appear and bring you joy, And they are the ones who will be put to shame.”

The WT organization wrongfully excludes sincere believers in Jehovah God and his word. Looks like this prophecy in Isaiah is just about that.

 “I have told you these things to keep you from stumbling. 2 They will ban you from the synagogues. In fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering service to God.  John 16:1,2

"Ban" - disfellowshipping/shunning

"kill" - disfelloshipping/shunning

Just a thought about “image”.  Adam and Eve were “made in the image of God”  Did they retain that image after they sinned?  Or did they adopt another “image”, one as the result of sin?

"Then God said, 'Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.' So God created mankind in his own image,
    in the image of God he created them;
    male and female he created them.
God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day."     Gen 1:26,27,31

It ceased being very good when Adam and Eve sinned.

And he said to the man, "Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, 'Do not eat from it': The ground is cursed because of you. You will eat from it by means of painful labor all the days of your life.   Gen 3:17

He called them “mankind” when they were created, when they possessed the Spirit of God.    Gen 5:1,2  Once they sinned, God’s Spirit left them according to their choice and they were no longer considered Sons of God who would live eternally, but suffered decay and death.  Rom 8:20,21

We choose the “image” we want to portray.  Either Satan and lies, which lead to destruction, or only God and Christ through his teachings bringing eternal life.  We can’t be slaves to both and expect Jesus to grant us salvation. Rom 6:16   The image of God is pure, perfect, blameless.  Jesus set the example for us; we are to follow closely in his footsteps to achieve that image of God. 2 Cor 4:4; Col 3:10; Rom 13:14   Any other "image" that we may follow, and that touts the source of salvation would not be pure, perfect, and blameless.  

If Christ, who is one in Spirit with the Father (John 17:22),  did not know who would betray him when choosing the 12 apostles, then how does the uninspired GB know they are the "faithful and discreet slave"?    Luke 3:8; Matt 7:16

4 hours ago, Melinda Mills said:

Shortly after Judas’ return, and less than a year after he had been made an apostle, he was publicly denounced by Christ, though not by name.

Christ knew that he would be betrayed by a close associate.

 But one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, who was later to betray him, objected, ⁵ “Why wasn’t this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year’s wages.” ⁶ He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it.  John 12:4-6

Do you really believe it took Jesus that long to find out that Judas was corrupt?  Jesus, who knew the hearts of men?

Here's another example:

"Some men brought to him a paralyzed man, lying on a mat.  When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the man, "Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven".  At this, some of the teachers of the law said to themselves, "This fellow is blaspheming!"  Knowing their thoughts, Jesus said, "Why do you entertain evil thoughts in your hearts?"    Matt 9:2-4

4 hours ago, Melinda Mills said:

Rather, as already mentioned, at the beginning of his apostleship Judas was faithful to God and to Jesus. Thus John must have meant that “from the beginning” of when Judas started to go bad, started to give in to imperfection and sinful inclinations, Jesus recognized it.

Firstly, they state it as fact that Judas was faithful to God and Jesus, then make the supposition that John "must have meant" that Jesus didn't recognize Judas as "bad" until almost a year after he chose him, and that this is what is meant by "from the beginning".  Judas belonged to Satan "from the beginning" as his spawn,  right along with the Pharisees.

 Watchtower’s leaders are so adept at lessening  and hiding the power of Christ; yet, he predicted Peter’s denial of the Christ before Peter fulfilled his words. Luke 22:34    He was a prophet AND the Son of God;  have JWs forgotten this?

I hope you can reason on this through the scriptures, Melinda.  

1 hour ago, Witness said:

He had the freedom to change, to be cleansed through Jesus’ teachings but his heart held fast to wickedness.

But when grace is shown to the wicked,
    they do not learn righteousness;
even in a land of uprightness they go on doing evil
    and do not regard the majesty of the Lord.  Isa 26:10

1 hour ago, Witness said:

You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. John 8:42-44