Witness

8 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

And that is the problem. I told witness before as to you cannot twist one's words to make it seem they make the claim of inspired prophets, and when asked, he did not deliver, to Butler, he did not deliver, to Srecko, he did not deliver.

I never said they were inspired!  I am pointing out that they claim they are NOT inspired!  YET, they expect obedience to every word that they “prophesy”.

Can’t you see the hypocrisy?   The GB are “Israel”.  God’s word is clear about prophets among His people, even those who “act like it”.  And, if someone is “acting” like a prophet of God, but gives wrong interpretations, they are false prophets inspired by demonic utterances.

For you, JWs!:

Reasoning Book:

 "False Prophets 
Individuals and organizations (1) proclaiming messages that they attribute to a superhuman source but that (2) do not originate with the true God and (3) are not in harmony with his revealed will." Reasoning from the Scriptures p.132

Please continue:

“At San Diego, California, there is a small piece of land, on which, in the year 1929 there was built a house, which is called and known as Beth Sarim. The Hebrew words Beth Sarim mean 'House of the Princes'; and the purpose of acquiring that property and building the house was that there are those on earth today who fully believe in God and Christ Jesus and in His Kingdom, and who believe that the faithful men of old will soon be resurrected by the Lord, be back on earth, and take charge of the visible affairs of earth. The title to Beth Sarim is vested in the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society in trust, to be used by the president of the Society and his assistants for the present, and thereafter to be forever at the disposal of the aforementioned princes on the earth.... It stands there as a testimony to Jehovah's name; and when the princes do return, and some of them occupy the property, such will be a confirmation of the faith and hope that induced the building of Beth Sarim. (Salvation, 1939, p. 311)

What an embarrassment for the organization. 

“The prophecies of Almighty God, the fulfillment of which now clearly appears from the physical facts, show that the end of religion has come and with its end the complete downfall of Satan's entire organization." (Religion, J. F. Rutherford, p. 336, 1940)”

Please, SM, stop being so narrow-minded, and protecting a leadership that comes as wolves in sheep’s clothing.  False prophets demand obedience which the GB does.  False prophets have lead many down the road of darkness and death. 

JWfacts.com has a very good breakdown of Watchtower leaders "acting" as prophets.  Read especially, the 4/1/1972 Watchtower, “A Prophet Was Among Them”  , highlighted in red.

"The prophets prophesy falsely, And the priests (non anointed elder body who have replaced God's anointed priesthood) RULE BY THEIR OWN POWER; And my people love to have it so.  But what will you do in the end?"  Jer 5:31

11 hours ago, Kosonen said:

Witness, 

I am a former Jehovah's witness and anointed. And I understand the prophecies not at all as Pearl Doxey. In my opinion are her explanations even worse than the Watchtower's. 

I believe you and the Watchtower are on the same page – fleshly thinking and the desire to put literal dates to symbolic numbers from a symbolic book - Revelation.  Under this topic - 

you said, “in the first centry the abomination that causes desolation were the Roman armies with their idols they brought with themselves to the battlefield. In this case they had brought that into the Holy city, Jerusalem. And they were near the Holy Temple. That was the sign to flee from the holy city Jerusalem.

Similarly when today's holy place, the JW complex at Warwick, will be desacrated by political simbols by the authorities, that will be the sign to start fleeing literaly as did the jewish christians to safety. Because that will be the begining of the persecution that will last till the end.” 

 Do you really believe that a printing facility is “holy” to God – you, who have left the Watchtower?  The early temple WAS the holy place not only to the Jews, but to God and Christ.  He called it, his “Father’s House”.  John 2:16

Today, the Father’s House/Temple are the anointed ones.  John 2:19-21;4:21-24; 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17

Why would you change the definition to something that even you see as detestable – Warwick?  Or do you?

Rev 11:1-3 is telling us what the “holy place” of Matt 24:15 is:

 I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, “Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, with its worshipers. ² But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months.”

As an anointed one and a “living stone”, YOU are that temple and part of the “holy city” being measured according to the decrees of God.

Dan 11:31 -  “His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation…

This is how Mark 13:14 interprets the “disgusting thing” of Matt 24:15:  “When you see the abomination of desolation  STANDING WHERE IT SHOULD NOT BE” (let the reader understand)”

Where does the abomination happen?  In the temple fortress.

Go back to Rev 11:1-3 – the abomination, which is Gentiles,  is trampling/treading/standing in the Temple, where they, the Gentiles,  should not be.  Ezek 44:6-9; Num 18:7

Warwick is neither the temple of God, the sanctuary nor the holy place where the disgusting thing – “ABOMINATION“– stands now as the man of lawlessness.  It is the elder body that has abolished all daily sacrifices of the holy ones, substituting their sacrifices as false priests.

1 Thess 2:3,4 -  Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. ⁴ He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.”

The man of lawlessness is the disgusting thing – the abomination – standing in the “holy place” of Matt 24:15, as well as the “image” of the Beast of 13:1,15

This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man. That number is 666.  Rev 13:18

Rev 13:7 tells us that the man of lawlessness, “…was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. “

Do you see the power that has been given to the elder body? Can you determine that the conquering of the Temple is equivalent to “desecrating” it as Dan 11:31 says?  Can you see the authority given to the elder body is not only over the Temple of God, but all JWs?

Who sanctions this authority?

 “Then I saw a second beast, coming out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb, but it spoke like a dragon. (false prophet)  ¹² It exercised all the authority of the first beast (man of lawlessness/elder body) on its behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed.”  Rev 13:11,12

As it stands, the GB/false prophet directs or has authority over the elders/organization. 

You agreed that the elder rule over the anointed ones was “real”; yet you as a “living stone” do not perceive what is falling down around you – your own “brothers” in Christ. 

2 hours ago, Outta Here said:

How boring and thoroughly depressing. I'm sure you'll get a great audience. I'm sure everyone will go home happy and fulfilled..... Not!

Like saying come and listen to our presentation. Today we are going to consider the pain many suffered under the physical and spiritual abuse of the Spanish Inquisitors. Audience participation welcome"

It is true, that the majority in the organization are very fine with their “life” that the they have signed up for when joining the organization. They are use to sitting through "boring" convention talks and wouldn't have it any other way.  They are not those who sighing and crying over the detestable things committed in “New Jerusalem” – the “city” of God’s people.  Ezek 9:4; Gal 4:26

Or, they tolerate the GB’s inconsistencies in agonizing silence, and out of fear of losing what life and friendships they have built inside.  Matt 16:25; John 12:25

It is also a fact that JWs have been manipulated into believing that any other anointed one just doesn’t have the ability to speak truth.  So, they willingly swallow the lies offered by the uninspired GB, as the only source of spiritual food Christ has provided.    What a psychological paradox. 

Well, you know where to find the sound cloud when it is produced, if ever you confront an abomination committed by the Watchtower that you find you just cannot tolerate.  Yet time is slipping by.  Rev 17 speaks of the false prophet being exposed for “her”/Harlot’s sins by the “Beast” “spirit-directed organization”. Rev 13:1,11,15,16; 17:12-18  Only for one symbolic “hour” will the Beast/organization remain before both the Harlot and the organization are thrown into the Lake of “burning sulphur”.  Rev 20:9,20   The GB will be disfellowshipped; yes, by a coalition of both elders and anointed ones – “ten kings”.   Some may even perceive this happening on the horizon; especially considering the child abuse issues and the two-witness rule.   Perhaps then you will have an understand of at least some of the abominations committed by God’s people.  But, we are told to act on the words spoken in Rev 18:4-8.   “My people” are the anointed ones; they and their companions are where you are, in the Watchtower. 

The Healing River program on Six Screens,  by Pearl Doxsey is at 1:00 EST.  

"Today we are going to consider, the grief many are suffering, due to the spiritual abuse of the WT. Please join us.

(712) 432-8710 PIN 9925

On 11/2/2018 at 7:00 PM, Kosonen said:

Hey come on, those scriptures are about the king of the North, the Antichrist. Those have nothing to do with the GB.

The organization has the eyes of JWs focused on Russia and the governments for the end time fulfillment.

Where did Jesus focus his disciple’s attention for the signs of the last days?

 “Teacher,” they asked him, “so when will these things happen? And what will be the sign when these things are about to take place?” 

Then he said, “Watch out that you are not deceived.  Luke 21:7,8

We know Russia has not deceived JWs; nor any other government has deceived JWs, a people who stay out of politics.  Russia’s agenda has been made clear to the world for a long time.  Watchtower is fighting a literal battle with that country because they dissolved their material holdings.  The governing body covet their “riches”, while God and Christ’s only “earthly belongings” are His children who strive to follow His Son and obey His decrees, instead of men and their material riches.  Matt 6:19-21; Act 7:48-50; 17:24  His “special possession” is not made with wood and stone, but with “living stones” of His Temple.  Yet, those anointed stones are asleep to this fact.  1 Pet 2:5,9,10; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22

JWs have been deceived by lies.    

“For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The time is near.’ Don’t follow them.”

Or, “I am the Christ”.  “Christ” means “anointed”.  WT’s string of leaders are anointed ones, who claim to represent Christ; and who many times over the years have pointed to literal dates of the return of Christ.  

“For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.” Matt 24:24

Although JWs have been soothed into accepting the follow-up of WT’s failed  prophesy as the necessary introduction of “new light”, God refers to it as falsehood, that is not left unpunished.

“I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers. I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him. ¹⁹ I will hold accountable whoever does not listen to My words that he speaks in My name.”  Deut 18:18,19

Jesus’ words were, “watch out that you are not DECEIVED” by false christs, false prophets.” 

“But the prophet who presumes to speak a message in My name that I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods—that prophet must die.’ ²¹ You may say to yourself, ‘How can we recognize a message the Lord has not spoken?’ ²² When a prophet speaks in the Lord’s name, and the message does not come true or is not fulfilled, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.”  Deut 18:20-22

Are JWs like the Pharisees who seek a literal sign?

“He replied, “When evening comes, you say, ‘It will be fair weather, for the sky is red,’ ³ and in the morning, ‘Today it will be stormy, for the sky is red and overcast.’ You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times. ⁴ A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah.” Jesus then left them and went away.”  Matt 16:2-4

“Once, on being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed, ²¹ nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is in your midst.”

The organization is doing exactly the opposite by pointing to a literal observation in Satan's world as a sign of the coming of the kingdom of God.  Observed: seen with the naked eye. The Watchtower organization calls itself Zion, a tangible entity full of not only people but buildings, produced with money and investments. These buildings are revered as a temple would be revered.  Upon entering every aspect of this organization, one is believed to have entered a “spiritual paradise”.  It is maintained, cherished and touted as the only way to worship God.  It is “observed” by all JWs as an irreplaceable aspect of the coming  Kingdom of God.  

If we look at Russia as the King of the North simply because there is blatant animosity against it by the organization, then most assuredly you have been deceived. Revelation concerns Jesus’ “kings of the earth”, not the political powers of the world.  This battle is spiritual and the focus of Revelation.  John 10:10; Eph 6:11-17; 1 Tim 6:12; Rev 1:5; 12:11

The kingdom of God is in your midst:  Who comprise the Temple of God/Zion, Body of Christ, whose hearts are the dwelling of God?  The anointed ones.  1 Cor 3:16,17 They are the potential members of the Bride of Christ, to be one with him as part of the vine.  John 15:1-4  As living stones, they are tried and tested by Satan, who “sifts” them as wheat.   Luke 22:31  If deceit doesn’t take them down, they are victorious, and are sealed in permanently, through their faith and obedience, while one the earth.  They are, “in your midst”and are the true Zion.  1 Cor 15:54-57; 2 Cor 7:10; Rev 13:7;15:2  

Then he said to his disciples, “The time is coming when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, but you will not see it.²³ People will tell you, ‘There he is!’ or ‘Here he is!’ Do not go running off after them. ²⁴ For the Son of Man in his day will be like the lightning, which flashes and lights up the sky from one end to the other”.  Luke 17:22-24

Jesus indicated the essence of the battle that his people would come against after he left.   Truth against lies.  “Lightening” is the knowledge of truth that becomes apparent when God’s anointed have “run after” false prophets and their oppressive false priesthood, the elder body.  Lightening is the message about the Christ spoken through those whom he sends to “Israel”. They are the “carcass”, “killed”/disfellowshipped for their “testimony to Christ”. Matt 24:27,28; Rev 11:1-3,7; Rev 13:15; 12:17  

The Pharisees came as “Moses”, mixing truth with lies.  Jesus exposed them for who they were using his light to uncover their darkness. The GB come as “Christ”.  He gave us fair warning by saying test the teachings, which would help discern those whom HE would send, and those who cast their lot in with Satan. Matt 7:15-20  They are those who would throw truth “down to the ground”. Dan 8:12  He was speaking of individuals among his own people, “Israel”; then, and now. 

“But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. ² And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. ³ By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.”  2 Pet 2:1-3

This is the battle at hand and is being fought between the “kings” of “Israel”.  Please open your eyes and if nothing else, “see” just this one scripture: 

“When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.”

Can you see that the end time preaching is to “Israel”, the anointed who are held captive under a “wicked slave”?  Matt 24:48-51

Do not go running after false “christs” who have repeatedly told you Armageddon was to arrive at a certain date.

This is one of the signs of the last days for us to perceive:

Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him: We ask you, brothers and sisters, ² not to be easily upset or troubled, either by a prophecy or by a message or by a letter supposedly from us, alleging that the day of the Lord has come.³ Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way. For that day will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. ⁴ He opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits in God’s temple, proclaiming that he himself is God.  2 Thess 2:1-4

Can you see that the trumpeting of dates and the trampling of the Temple/anointed priesthood doesn’t originate with political or religious leaders outside of the anointed group, but it is spearheaded by those anointed who have fallen from the grace of God?  Rev 8:11; 2 Pet 3;17; 1 John 2:19

The Watchtower has sent message after message of the prophetic “day of the Lord”.  1914 has stuck, since it is the foundation of the “generation” doctrine.  They will revise it and twist it if needed, until Armageddon is finished.  Matt 7:26,27

If the anointed are Abraham’s seed and the dwelling of God, they are God’s sons, His firstborn of ALL sons of God. They are also the habitation of God’s Spirit.  The Man of Lawlessness that “sits” in God’s Temple is not found in the governments or the religions of the world, nor is it a literal “holy place” deemed so by false prophets.   Matt 24:15  There is only one Temple of God that He recognizes, which is built with “living stones”.   John 2:19,21; Matt 16:18; 1 Pet 2:4-10; Eph 2:20-22; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Rev 21:14; 14:1

This Temple is under attack with weapons of DECEIT.

2 Thess 2:9-12 – “The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, ¹⁰ and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. ¹¹ For this reason God sends (or allows Satan to send his “works”) them a powerful delusion (watch out that you are not deceived) so that they will believe the lie ¹² and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.”

All JWs believe the lie that the end time fulfillments and coming Kingdom of God will take place through the physical developments in Satan’s world.  This is enforced by a wicked slave and the “lawless one”, who rules over God’s anointed priesthood, the elder body; the dual power of the Beasts of Revelation 13, who are Gog and Magog “surrounding the saints” with deceit.  Rev 16:13-16

Why would God’s Kingdom be born from Satan’s realm?  Can pure light be born from darkness?

“Who can bring what is pure from the impure?
    No one!”  Job 14:4

The great northern army that comes against God’s priesthood is described in Joel 1 and 2 and Rev 9:1-12  God “sends” or allows Satan to enact against the remaining “seed” of the woman covenant.

Why does he allow God’s people to fall under such an oppressive army?  Because “they refuse to love the truth”.  Whenever Israel sinned, God removed his protection and they suffered under the enemy.  This is why the anointed are allowed to be “trampled”. Dan 8:13   They serve the GB and not Christ.  They idolize an “organization” forgetting to give God “exclusive devotion”.   Deut 5:7,8; Rev 13:4   Spiritual “Israel” has allowed themselves to fall under the authority of the spiritual “Gentiles”.  Rev 11:1,2

Watchtower will tell you this army of locusts are the anointed ones, which is another lie, and outlined here:
w79 7/15 pp. 13-19 – “Preaching in a Lawless World”

Are they supposing that JWs will not see the outcome of the locust army described in Joel 2:20  How do they hide this from JWs?  You must ask yourself, Bible readers, why you missed the scriptures in Joel that show how the devastating northern locust army “tortures” GOD’S ANOINTED ONES.  2 Cor 11:13-15  For those who leave, losing the life they had known, (Mark 8:35)  but gain life through Christ,  God promises:

“But I will remove far from you the northern army,
And will drive him away into a barren and desolate land,
With his face toward the eastern sea
And his back toward the western sea;
His stench will come up,
And his foul odor will rise,
Because he has done monstrous things.”

“So I will restore to you the years that the swarming locust has eaten,
The crawling locust,
The consuming locust,
And the chewing locust,
My great army which I sent among you.
²⁶ You shall eat in plenty and be satisfied,
And praise the name of the Lord your God,” 
Who has dealt wondrously with you;
And My people shall never be put to shame.
²⁷ Then you shall know that I am in the midst of Israel:
I am the Lord your God
And there is no other.
My people shall never be put to shame.  Joel 2:20,25-27

Those anointed that escape the “lawless one’s” grip are the restored “Jacob”/”Israel”, the true Mountain of God. 

“And it shall come to pass afterward
That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your old men shall dream dreams,
Your young men shall see visions.
²⁹ And also on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days.

³⁰ “And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth:
Blood and fire and pillars of smoke.
³¹ The sun shall be turned into darkness,
And the moon into blood,
Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord.
³² And it shall come to pass
That whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Shall be ^[l]saved.
For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be deliverance,
As the Lord has said,
Among the remnant whom the Lord calls.

Rev 11:1-3; Matt 24:26-31; Rev 12:1-5

Pearl Doxsey – 4womaninthewilderness  Look for, “Christ’s Return, When?”

23 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Wt. 1964/10/1 - "Those who do not read can hear, for God has on earth today a PROPHETLIKE ORGANIZATION, just as he did in the days of the early Christian congregation."

Thank you for revealing more of Watchtower’s lies. 

In the quote above, they are comparing the WT organization to the anointed Body of Christ in the first century, where it has been made plain through scripture that there were inspired prophets designated so, by God.  If the GB are not “inspired” by Holy Spirit they should not make the comparison.   

23 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

He designates these Christians as his “faithful and discreet slave.” (Matt. 24:45-47) This “slave” group is strictly commanded: “Do not treat prophesyings with contempt.” (1 Thess. 5:20) This has proved true of Jehovah’s anointed witnesses on earth. They pay attention to prophecy with the greatest respectfulness. They have corrected themselves when prophecy revealed their own shortcomings. They have not held back when prophecy has condemned practices followed even in Christendom. (Isa. 58:1) Yes, they have proclaimed the prophecies written in God’s Word even though this has brought world hatred toward them.—Matt. 24:9.

Since they have a 100 percent fail rate, how does this show respect for prophesy?    I have yet to find a genuine heartfelt apology by the governing body or any WT leaders for misleading millions of people with their failed prophesies.   They are more inclined to pass the buck onto their hearers.  1975 is a prime example.   

Here is another:

"Some anticipated that the work would end in 1925, but the Lord did not state so. The difficulty was that the friends inflated their imaginations beyond reason; and that when their imaginations burst asunder, they were inclined to throw away everything." (Watchtower 1926 p. 232.) 

Let’s go back to 1925 to identify the “some”:   

"We have no doubt whatever in regard to the chronology relating to the dates of 1874, 1914, 1918, and 1925. It was on this line of reckoning that the dates 1874, 1914, and 1918 were located; and the Lord has placed the stamp of his seal upon 1914 and 1918 beyond any possibility of erasure. What further evidence do we need? Using this same measuring line.... it is an easy matter to locate 1925, probably in the fall, for the beginning of the antitypical jubilee. There can be no more question about 1925 than there was about 1914." (Watchtower, p. 150, May 15, 1922)

 Check the 1914 chronology to see its changes.  Check all of the dates for changes.  “Any possibility of erasure”???  They are such liars.  

"True, there have been those in times past who predicted an "end" to the world, even announcing a specific date. Yet nothing happened. The 'end' did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing? Missing from such people were God's truths and the evidence that He was using and guiding them.'' (Awake, Oct. 8, 1968) 

 "God's faithful people on earth emphasized the importance of the dates 1914 and 1918 and 1925. They had much to say about these dates and what would come to pass, but all they predicted did not come to pass." (Vindication, vol. 1, 1931, p. 146) 

By their own definition, they are false prophets.   

Prophecy can not be understood until it has been fulfilled or is in the course of fulfillment. From 1874 to 1914 the prophecy concerning the Lord's coming was being fulfilled and could be understood, and was understood, by those who were faithful to the Lord and who were watching the development of events, but not by others. (Creation; 1927; p. 290) 

'If these prophesies have not been fulfilled, and if all possibility of fulfillment is past, then these prophets are proven false.' (Prophecy, 1929, p 22) 

As I said, they are “inspired” through demonic inspiration.  If they were still part of the vine of Christ, they would naturally be "inspired" with Holy Spirit.  John 15:5; 1 John 2:27 

THE ARE FALSE “INSPIRED” PROPHETS.   Matt 12:34  

They may not join the word “inspired” to prophet, but God does not need to.  The dictionary makes it clear that prophets are inspired, as does the Watchtower itself.   

God – But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.’ ²¹ And if you say in your heart, ‘How shall we know the word which the Lord has not spoken?’— ²² when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him. 

This organization is supposedly GOD'S organization.  When every doctrine fails, then who is to blame?  The GB do not take the blame.  Is God to blame since His spirit supposedly guides it? 

Dictionary –  Prophesy - to utter by or as if by divine inspiration, to predict with assurance or on the basis of mystic knowledge 

Watchtower’s Reasoning Book –

Prophesy - An inspired message; a revelation of the divine will and purpose. Prophecy may be a prediction of something to come, inspired moral teaching, or an expression of a divine command or judgment. 

This definition just about covers all aspects of the Watchtower’s teachings within the "theocratic organization".   If the GB claim they are not inspired, then they should put down their pen, stop the printing presses and leave millions alone to find truth by turning fully to Christ and the Father.   

When a GB members says, “This is a theocracy ruled by God, not a collection of man-made decisions.  This is governed from heaven.”, how do you believe this is possible if not through an “inspired” anointed one?  If God “pours out his Spirit on His organization”, where does all that spirit go?  Does it magically appear in word form in a magazine?  

The nation of Israel was governed from heaven through an authentic prophet – Moses.  Did you know the GB at times compare themselves to Moses?  They expect JWs to swallow this lie and also to accept they are not inspired.   On top of this, they must obey without question any doctrine doomed to fail.    

Where is the truth in any of this?  The truth is that the GB is guilty of false prophesy. Since they are unable to receive “inspired messages” from God, even though they claim they are anointed; not only because they say they are not inspired, but because they are led by another spirit, 

THEY ARE FALSE PROPHETS TELLING LIES.  ACTUALLY, THEY ARE FALSE PROPHETS CLAIMING AN IDOL – THE ORGANIZATION – IS THE ONE INSPIRED (since they say they are not)  as  GOD’S “SPIRIT-DIRECTED ORGANIZATION”.  

The Reasoning Book continues:

False prophets - Individuals and organizations proclaiming messages that they attribute to a superhuman source but that do not originate with the true God and are not in harmony with his revealed will. 

Is the claim made on the front of the Wt. magazine below in harmony with the will of God?  Is it that hard to recognize a lie when you see it? Can you see how firm the statement is made on the cover that was circulated to thousands - millions of people in the world?  It is purely, false prophesy. 

Without a doubt, the Watchtower is guided by false “inspired” prophets, who have “breathed spirit” into the organization.  It is a spirit that has caused great harm, oppression, confusion, depression, division of families and loss of lives; pure darkness.   It is the farthest thing from a spiritual paradise that has ever existed.    Rev 13:1,11,15 

It is fruitless to further communicate with you on this, SM.    My hope is that JWs see through the organization’s lies and turn aside to Christ.

5 hours ago, Outta Here said:

Anointed Christians serve in a "prophet-like" role in their commission outlined by Peter at 1Peter 2:9. Their governing body serves similarly, Matt.24:45-47. But in that role, it is not incumbent that any utter what could be described as "inspired utterences", or that ANY of their "forecasts" or predictions on world events should specifically come true in all detail. Even those that do would not evidence divine "inspiration".

I believe you should read further in Matt 24...to Matt 24:48-51

He said, “Listen to my words: When there are prophets of the Lord among you, I make myself known to them in visions or speak to them in dreams.”  Num 12:6

“‘In the last days, God says,
    I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
    your young men will see visions,
    your old men will dream dreams.
¹⁸ Even on my servants, both men and women,
    I will pour out my Spirit in those days,
    and they will prophesy.”  Acts 2:17,18 

He said to me, “Son of man, stand up on your feet and I will speak with you.” ² As he spoke to me, the Spirit entered me and set me on my feet, and I listened to the one who was speaking to me. ³ He said to me, “Son of man, I am sending you to the Israelites, to the rebellious pagans who have rebelled against me. The Israelites and their ancestors have transgressed against me to this day.  Ezek 2:1-3 

Instead, go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. ⁷ As you go, proclaim: ‘The kingdom of heaven has come near.’  Matt 10:6,7 

“Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. ² But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months. ³ And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”  Rev 11:1-3

“The blessings of Jehovah God are upon you because of his loving-kindness to his beloved anointed remnant. Jehovah God dwells with you because his anointed are his visible temple. w56 11/15 pp. 696-702     

John 2:18-21;  1 Cor 3:16,17; 1 Pet 2:4-10; Eph 2:20-22  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+2%3A18-21%3B +1+Cor+3%3A16%2C17%3B+1+Pet+2%3A4-10%3B+Eph+2%3A20-22&version=CSB

Spiritual Israel are the anointed, the Temple.   Who are the spiritual “Gentiles” “treading” the temple? 

“Representing the royal priesthood (anointed)  are appointed elders, who serve in positions of responsibility in congregations of Jehovah’s people around the earth. These men deserve our respect and wholehearted support, whether they are of the anointed or not. Why? Because, through his holy spirit, Jehovah has appointed the older men to their positions.  

Rather than challenge their authority, we truly appreciate our hardworking elders! Their record of faithful service, often over many decades, inspires our trust. 

“Loyally Submit to Godly Authority” wt 02/8/1 pp. 9-14

 “My hand will oppose the prophets who see false visions and speak deceptive divinations. They won’t be included with the council of my people, nor will they be entered into the registry of Israel’s house or enter Israel’s land. Then you’ll know that I am the Lord God”  Eze 13:9

(Rev 7:4)

… And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”  Rev 11:3 

“The descendants are obstinate and hardhearted. I am sending you to them, and you must say to them, ‘This is what the Lord God says.’ ⁵ Whether they listen or refuse to listen—for they are a rebellious house—they will know that a prophet has been among them. Eze 2:1-5 

So when they persecute you in one city, flee to another. I can guarantee this truth: Before you have gone through every city in Israel, the Son of Man will come.   Matt 10:23 

Rev 21:8 - But the cowards, faithless, detestable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars—their share will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

 Big letters for emphasis.  

10 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

his is where you are twisting this, they never admit to being inspired prophets, and I am sure all the facts provided to you several times before thus proofs this point.

Wt. 1964/10/1 - "Those who do not read can hear, for God has on earth today a PROPHETLIKE ORGANIZATION, just as he did in the days of the early Christian congregation."

Wt. 972/4/1 -  "Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a 'prophet' of God. It is another thing to prove it. The only way that this can be done is to review the record. What does it show?" 

How do you think the prophetic claims are made?  Who voices them?  Someone other than the GB?  Their "prophesy" is not inspired by Holy Spirit, but through demonic "inspiration".  

Review the record.  It shows nothing but failed prophesy.  

6 minutes ago, Witness said:

Do you know how this is manifested in the Watchtower?  It’s called "spirit-channeling", and has been going on for years.

It has been a while since I listened in to these videos.  But, I recall how he was struggling to understand why this is happening at Bethel.  One of his conclusions about Moses and Joshua are not something that I would agree with.  I posted these to show the main issue, but as I recall, I do not necessarily agree with his application of scripture.   

11 hours ago, Thinking said:

Pearl has relayed to me personaly that she does not study the Bible as she does not have time..when some one writes to her and asks a question..she sits at the table with pen and paper and writes....she stated she does not even know what she has written a lot of the time...until she reads it.

Is Holy Spirit dead?  Was it dead when Jesus “breathed” Holy Spirit onto his disciples?   John 20:21-23  Simply because the GB admit to not being inspired by Holy Spirit does not mean that Christ has abandoned all anointed ones, to the spirit of the world. 

Firstly, I know Pearl personally.  She writes on computers unless one has been hacked or crashed, or is not available, and she has many broken ones to prove it.    I also keep paper and pen handy to jot down my thoughts. Even though I am not a writer, what writer would not do so?  What genuine inspired of God anointed one, would not do so if Holy Spirit leads one in thought and understanding? 

If she is “inspired” what do you think that means?  She is guided in knowledge of scriptural truth and its understanding by HOLY SPIRIT.  So, too, were the apostles and all whom God “inspired”.  So, too, was John the Baptist.  So, too, are those anointed who “prophesy” during the last days.  Rev 11:1-3; Matt 17:10,11; John 14:26; Acts 2:17

But remember, this would not be the GB, since they are not inspired...and they mean, by Holy Spirit. Yet, they are inspired by another spirit, from the father of the lie.   They are demon-inspired.   Joh 8:44; Rev 16: 13,14,16; 20:8  They are the genuine “human apostates” in “Satan’s kitchen of lies”, cooking up another round of rotten fruit.

Now the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will depart from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and the teachings of demons”  1 Tim 4:1

 Do you know how this is manifested in the Watchtower?  It’s called "spirit-channeling", and has been going on for years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFMQnZbyRko

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkSmW4XlS8c&t=11s

There are many stories emerging about individuals being used as “channelers” by governing body members.  Even members of the GB have been “channelers”.      Luke 8:17  One person was used to write the Revelation Book, a collection of rotten “fruit” and “fabricated stories”, that has since been discarded.  Matt 7:15,20; 2 Pet 2:1-4

Their stories are graphic and dark.  You can search them out, or you can search out light that Christ is providing from those inspired by Holy Spirit.  Rev 1:1,2; Mal 3:1-5

Have you ever compared the amount of scriptures one Watchtower study provides, against the amount used by Pearl in one article?  There is no comparison.  To say she doesn’t read the Bible is a lie, or you are misinterpreting her words; she is allowed understanding by God.  And, if anyone already has scriptures sunk into her head, or is prompted to recall them, it is Pearl. If you have a facebook account, you can see her comments about studying the Bible, here:   https://www.facebook.com/groups/restorationofjacob/permalink/1101362280037034/

Jesus was accused of having an “unclean spirit” by those he said were children of the devil. Mark 3:30  It is no different for a mere woman, chosen by God and blessed with spiritual understanding to receive the same treatment by the GB and JWs.

"It is enough for a disciple to become like his teacher and a slave like his master. If they called the head of the house 'Beelzebul,' how much more the members of his household!”  Matt 20:25

This the pattern that the GB practice against the anointed ones who reject their lies.  While in the Watchtower, they are useless.  Christ’s priests/Temple are absolutely useless, except to offer rotten fruit that a wicked slave provides. Matt 24:48-51; 1 Cor 3:16,17; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 13:17  Whatever Holy Spirit resides in their heart is not used.  When it emerges through an outspoken one who has revealed this fact by the power of Holy Spirit, that one is called a “human apostate” by the wicked slave and "killed"/disfellowshipped.  Rev 11:1-3,7  Do you want to chime in along with them?

“Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; ²⁹ but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation”  Mark 3:28,29

 We each see what we want to see, according the spirit that we allow to fill our heart.  We each have a choice of  "fruit" from anointed teachers.  Do you really believe that authentic truth is the easiest to find and ingest, when Satan desires to destroy it with lies?   Matt 12:34; Luke 21:8; 2 Thess 2:9-12; Matt 15:13,14 

Can you not see that he will line the path of his lies with the "desire of the eyes" from the world?  Where is your organization standing, but in the world?  The WT leader's  have built their golden calf using the slavery of people and their valuables.  Rom 6:16

"For everything that is in the world—the desire for fleshly gratification, the desire for possessions, and worldly arrogance—is not from the Father but is from the world.And the world and its desires are fading away, but the person who does God’s will remains forever." 1 John 2:16,17

Pearl is doing God's will, unlike WT's leaders who are building their empire on the shifting sand of lies.  Luke 6:47-49 

1 hour ago, Thinking said:

Anyone who quotes pearl Doxcey as you have done ..is beyond understandimg  the big picture or Jehovah’s plan...sorry but I view you as a true apostate ...end of conversation !

I find it fascinating that the governing body can proclaim themselves as the only “faithful and discreet slave” belonging to Christ.  They can change doctrine and call it new light because their previous doctrine was a lie, although most JWs will not see it that way.   They authorize the elder body to judge Christ’s anointed servants as “dead”, because these servants know what they teach is a lie and refuse to swallow it. 

So, an anointed woman with spiritual insight reveals these lies, and why they are being uttered…and SHE is considered the apostate. 

It is equally fascinating that God has chosen a woman to stand up to these pompous men and their lies.  Tell me, is an apostate one who tells the truth and stands for God and Christ, or one who lies through his teeth and stands for an organization?

A Great Deception - 4womaninthewilderness

19 hours ago, Thinking said:

but they didn’t leave the camp....they showed great faith that Moses would come back...and I’m sure many were very confused at that time....I too will wait for Jesus to come down from the mountain....and correct his people...

I know you must agree,  the camp of Israel under Moses’ direction is incomparable to the Watchtower organization, which is under the direction, not of Christ, but of uninspired men.   Moses was an inspired prophet, and relayed all of God’s decrees right to the people.  There is just no comparison. Those that made the golden calf were rebels of Moses, and who immediately lost their lives. Exod 32:25-27  The organization was introduced by Rutherford.  The organizational “decrees” came from his mouth.  Christ would have no reason to add to God’s decrees, since by his coming he fulfilled the law.  Matt 5:17-20  What further laws are needed?  The Pharisees felt there were many little nitpicking elements that had to be added to the law; and apparently, so do WT leaders. Isa 28:9-13; Matt 16:6-12; 15:7-9

Well, if you’re going to build a golden calf to lead the people, it must come with a new set of rules. It’s a small point, but I find it interesting that the Shepherd the Flock of God book uses the similar number format as the Bible.  In the index, “Apostasy 5:16”  It is worth turning to this “scripture” for their viewpoint.  

"When the people saw that Moses had not come down from the mountain but was staying there a long time, they gathered around Aaron and said to him, “We do not know what has happened to this man Moses, who led us out of Egypt; so make us a god to lead us.” Exod 32:1

“Let us discuss five things we must do to keep our zeal and to follow the lead of Jehovah’s organization. ws13 4/15 pp. 21-26

How many passed generations have been under the power and lead of the organization while still believing they worship only God?

"Beware of "organization." It is wholly unnecessary. The Bible rules will be the only rules you will need. Do not seek to bind others' consciences, and do not permit others to bind yours. Believe and obey so far as you can understand God’s Word today, and so continue growing in the grace and knowledge and love day by day.  CT Russell, Zion's Watch Tower, Sept. 15, 1895, pg 216

Perhaps not the sisters you speak of, but what brought many JWs into the hands of terror?  It was the name that led them there; the image of a spirit-directed organization that determined their actions and worship. Rev 13:15,16  It is the name established by a man who instigated and built it; impressing upon his followers that the organization was a vital concept requiring one’s devotion and service.  Rutherford.  The man who initially tried to side with Hitler, by using lies.  https://www.jwfacts.com/pdf/letter-to-hitler.pdf

In spite of Russell’s quote, the golden calf began building with JWs’ valuables, at the organization’s early inception.  This calf is a beast that “kills” anyone who rejects it vocally, when wanting to serve ONLY God and Christ. Dan 3:17,18; Rev 13:11-17; Dan 3:28; Rev 12:11; 15:2-4   https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Dan+3%3A17%2C18%3B+Rev+13%3A11-17%3B+Dan+3%3A28%3B+Rev+12%3A11%3B+15%3A2-4&version=NKJV

“Remember that he will save his Theocratic organization whom he here addresses, and so let our desire for safety and deliverance spur us to adhere tightly to the organization. w50 10/1 pp. 349-356

 ^“Do not follow other gods to serve and worship them; do not arouse my anger with what your hands have made. Then I will not harm you.”  “But you did not listen to me,” declares the Lord, “and you have aroused my anger with what your hands have made, and you have brought harm to yourselves.”  Jer 25:6,7

The Lord replied, “When the Egyptians, the Amorites, the Ammonites,the Philistines, ¹² the Sidonians, the Amalekites and the Maonitesoppressed you and you cried to me for help, did I not save you from their hands? ¹³ But you have forsaken me and served other gods, so I will no longer save you. ¹⁴ Go and cry out to the gods you have chosen. Let them save you when you are in trouble!”  Judges 10:11-14

Jesus is already correcting his people, if they willingly go to him for refinement and understanding of this unsettled time.      Matt 7:7,8; John 16:24; Rev 3:18

5 hours ago, Thinking said:

there is much wrong amongst his people...but the point is....you didn’t dedicate yourself to an org.....you should have dedicated yourself the the Almighty Creator......

It just isn't that easy to do in the organization.  According to your leaders, it is necessary to dedicate oneself to the organization.  Otherwise, anyone could get baptized anywhere....like the Ethiopian who was baptized by Philip.    

You bear the identifying “mark” of this “spirit-directed organization”.  Where does this leave God , who demands exclusive devotion?  Can you serve two Masters?  Matt 6:24 ; Deut 6:4-8; Rev 13:1,4,7,11, 15-17

“Have you dedicated your life to Jehovah and symbolized your dedication by water baptism? If so, that is wonderful! Recall that on your baptism day, before eyewitnesses, you were asked whether you had dedicated yourself to Jehovah and understood that “your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in association with God’s spirit-directed organization.” Your affirmative answers served as a public declaration of your unreserved dedication and showed that you were qualified for baptism as an ordained minister of Jehovah. You must have made Jehovah very happy!”  W17/4/ pp. 3-8

It is quite important that JWs keep in mind their promise to serve the organization. The phrase was already italicized; I marked it in bold.  

The title of this WT is very telling – “What you Vow, Pay.“  The introductory scripture of the article is Matt 5:33

“Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘Do not break your oath, but fulfill to the Lord the vows you have made.’ 

However, the GB did not provide a way for you to investigate what Jesus said next. 

³⁴ But I tell you, do not swear an oath at all: either by heaven, for it is God’s throne; ³⁵ or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. ³⁶ And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. ³⁷ All you need to say is simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.

Doesn’t it appear that the organization is going beyond what Jesus words have indicated?  ANYTHING written as a command beyond his words, comes from the evil one.

Jesus’ command:  Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, ²⁰ and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” Matt 28:19,20

Questions for baptism in the organization:

"The first question is:
On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will? 

 Wt 18/3 pp 3-7 and WT 1985,6/1 p. 30

The second is:
Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit-directed organization? Having answered yes to these questions, candidates are in a right heart condition to undergo Christian baptism."  WT 18/3 pp. 3-7

They have certainly gone beyond Jesus' words by making a point that you identify yourself with the organization.  Where does it say in the scriptures that the "right heart condition"  depends on a dedication to an earthly organization?  Why don’t they mention one’s dedication to Jesus Christ?  Why would one’s dedication to the organization be more important than serving God AND Christ.  They are one in Spirit.   Why didn't they follow Christ's command?   John 17:22    "anything beyond this comes from the evil one".  

"Here is my servant whom I have chosen, the one I love, in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will proclaim justice to the nations."  Matt 12:18

The Watchtower leaders take more delight in “Jehovah’s organization” than in God’s Son. (they preach a different Jesus 2 Cor 11:4) They take more delight in their self-made commands, than those of Jesus Christ. Are you to tolerate this?  As John brought out, Jesus didn't tolerate the lies of the Pharisees.  In fact, Jesus said,

“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. Look, your house is left to you desolate. I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’”    Luke 13:34,35

God doesn't fix lies and sin.  He warns us of the lies that may come against us by wolves in sheep's clothing, and to reject them, not tolerate them.  Jer 5:31; Matt 7:20

I really hope you can see this.

“I JEHOVAH your God am a God exacting exclusive devotion.” Thus Jehovah God calls attention to the fact that he tolerates no rivals. Devotees of pagan religions may have a pantheon, but not those worshiping the unique God Jehovah.—Ex. 20:5, NW.   WT 58/1/1 p.30

Indeed, God has a rival.  It is the Watchtower organization.

Those who remain loyal to Jehovah’s organization take the view the apostles did when many of Jesus’ disciples stopped following him. Peter expressed their feelings by saying: “Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life.” (John 6:68) The loyal “sheep” see that the way to life is with Jehovah’s faithful organization.  w62 12/15 pp. 758-763

Oh my.  Since when did the way to life divert from Christ, and point to“Jehovah’s organization”? Since a mere hundred years ago or so.   WT 62 12/15 pp. 758-763  

You sound so troubled, somewhat of a misfit JW.  Matt 11:28   There is more peace of mind on the other side of the wall of lies, than within such darkness.  Ezek 13:10-16

Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.  We have come to believe and to know that you are the Holy One of God.”  John 6:68,69

On 11/2/2018 at 5:44 PM, Kosonen said:

The problem you mention in your post is real.

On 11/2/2018 at 5:44 PM, Kosonen said:

And this has not yet started. And this is done according to the prophecy by a worldleader, a political leader. Even many evangelical preachers teach that this will be done by the Antichrist. And this has nothing to do with the Governing Body. ?

Thank you, Jan.  But, you see the transgression against the Temple/anointed ones, but are dismissing it at the same time?  

 

  I hope you will read my comments on this topic.   

 

On 10/30/2018 at 4:24 AM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

There is a LOT of money, prestiege, accolades, and status  to be had  in making yourself into a fortune teller, Shaman, Witch Doctor, Snake-Oil Salesman, Prophet, Prognosticator, Savant, Priest, Counselor, Governing Body, or Elder.

A LOT of money!

Technically ... it may not be yours ... but you control it ... without any accountability whatsoever, to those footing the bill.

Not your "followers".

Not even the IRS.

... even if you have taken a vow of poverty ... you fly Business Class, and stay in very fine hotels, sleep warm, eat well, and have a staff to do anything you want done.

It is a VERY FINE OCCUPATION, much to be sought after, .... if you can keep up the razzle-dazzle .... and keep down your gag reflex.

Take heart, change is afoot.

“And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”

 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.  But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.  Rev 22:12-15

On 9/18/2018 at 12:19 PM, Martha Braun Amistadi said:

We come to know the "ring" of truth as we study it prayerfully and diligently. 

The first “ring of truth” may be authentic; the succeeding peals could be deadly.

“Will a bird fall into a snare on the earth, where there is no trap for it?
Will a snare spring up from the earth, if it has caught nothing at all?”  Amos 3:5 

‘For among My people are found wicked men;
They lie in wait as one who sets snares;
They set a trap;
They catch men.”  Jer 5:26

Of what importance is loyalty to Jehovahˈs organization?   If we truly appreciate Jehovah’s earthly organization, we will remain loyal to it, knowing that the organization is his.  w73 7/1 pp. 401-407

Now is the time to flee from doomed Christendom and find refuge in Jehovah’s organization. w50 7/1 pp. 195-198

“refuge in Jehovah’s organization”?

On 9/18/2018 at 12:26 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

Our minds and hearts accept the logic as facts fall in to place clearly.

Please, see the logic: 

 “Who will you compare me or make me equal to?
Who will you measure Me with,
so that we should be like each other? 

Remember what happened long ago,
for I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and no one is like Me."  Isa 46:5,9

"God, hear my voice when I am in anguish.
Protect my life from the terror of the enemy.
² Hide me from the scheming of wicked people,
from the mob of evildoers,
³ who sharpen their tongues like swords
and aim bitter words like arrows,
⁴ shooting from concealed places at the blameless.
They shoot at him suddenly and are not afraid.
⁵ They adopt an evil plan;
they talk about hiding traps and say,
“Who will see them?” 
⁶ They devise crimes and say,
“We have perfected a secret plan.”
The inner man and the heart are mysterious.

⁷ But God will shoot them with arrows;
suddenly, they will be wounded.
⁸ They will be made to stumble;
their own tongues work against them.
All who see them will shake their heads.
⁹ Then everyone will fear
and will tell about God’s work,
for they will understand what he has done.

¹⁰ The righteous one rejoices in the Lord
and takes refuge in Him;
all those who are upright in heart
will offer praise.”  Ps 64

On 10/30/2018 at 1:12 PM, JOHN BUTLER said:

And who exactly gives you all this knowledge and understanding ? 

I was anointed around 25 years old, 1981.  I kept quiet, out of fear and ignorance, since I was new to the organization. I totally ignored my anointing for over 32.  It was then that I was "killed", disfellowshipped, for speaking up against lies, 1914, accepting only Christ as my Head, and refusing to "bow down" to the GB and their "organization". Rev 13:7,15; 11:7  I am not alone, other anointed have done the same.  Many other children of God have joined them,  as they have perceived the Man of Lawlessness/Elder Body "standing" in the Temple of God. Matt 24:15,16; Luke 17:31-37; Rev 12:6; Gal 4:22-26 They understand that the Beasts of Revelation point directly to the GB and the elder body as the "image" of the Beast/organization.  Rev 13

2 Thess 2:4 - He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God."

Dan 11: 31,32 - “His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation.  With flattery he will corrupt those who have violated the covenant, but the people who know their God will firmly resist him."

Dan 11:36 - “The king will do as he pleases. He will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will say unheard-of things against the God of gods. He will be successful until the time of wrath is completed, for what has been determined must take place."

Rev 11:2 - "But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months.  And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”

Matt 17:11 = "Jesus answered and said to them, “Indeed, Elijah is coming first and will restore all things."

Mal 3:1 - “Behold, I send My messenger,
And he will prepare the way before Me.
And the Lord, whom you seek,
Will suddenly come to His temple,
Even the Messenger of the covenant,
In whom you delight.
Behold, He is coming,”
Says the Lord of hosts.

Rev 11:1,2   - "Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. "But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months.  And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”

"The Good News -- What is it? Who is it for?"  4womaninthewilderness

I have posted this on facebook.  I believe this comment made by another, is well worth reading:

“Jehovah’s spirit is upon them; they have his approval.” What came to mind was the fact that the Australian Royal Commission determined that of the 1006 pedophiles in Aus JW files that 20% of these were elders or MS. So how is it that jehovah gave his blessing to appoint pedophiles? They didn't become pedophiles after their appointment for pedos are that way before adulthood."

@JOHN BUTLER  Well, the scriptures clearly say, that Satan is “abyssed” for a symbolic “thousand years”. Rev 20:1-3 (Revelation is a book written in “signs” Rev 1:1) He was unable to perceive this end time plan (Hades/abyss - “not perceiving”).  At the end, he is released by a fallen star, a fallen anointed one (I will not go there, SM)  to “make war” with the “saints”. Rev 8:11; 9:1

If Christ’s Bride was complete during the “thousand years” and the heavenly Temple completely sealed with “144,000” saints during his reign, how would Satan come against “the remaining ones of the woman’s seed” – the anointed saints, when he is released from the abyss?  It is when God’s Kingdom arrives that the Bride is complete, and the Temple living stones are in place. 1 Pet 2:5,9; Rev 21:1-5; Zech 4:6,7 

Satan uses his earthly tools to devise this plan – the desire of the eyes and power.  Luke 4:5-7  Could you see this happening on the other side of Armageddon when the earth is like Eden?  He uses his lies that he imparts to the fallen anointed composite “star”, mixed with waters of truth.  Rev 8:11,12  This fallen “star” is a false prophet, that appears to be sent by Christ.  2 Pet 3:17 (Gen 22:17,18; Matt 13:43)

Each anointed one since the first century has been “sifted” as either wheat or weeds. Luke 22:31  They are either sealed in the heavens, even while alive on the earth,  or have become enemies of Christ under his feet. Eph 4:30; Heb 12:22; Rev 7:4; 1 John 2:19; Rev 5:9,10

If you’ll notice, in Rev 20:4-6 those that do reign with Christ during “a thousand years” since the first century, never “worshipped the beast or its image” of Rev 13:7,15.  THAT beast and its false prophet, makes war and conquers the saints during the last days. Watchtower even speaks of Revelation’s Beasts as present today, but of course, they point the finger to the UN and Christendom.  They also leave the part out where that the Beast from the Sea (Rev 13:1) overcomes/conquers the saints.  Rev 13:7

 Gog and Magog (Gog, of the land of Magog)  are the other symbolic terms of the end time machination to destroy the last remaining ones of God’s priesthood. 

The "thousand years" is not one of peace.  Jesus never said he came to bring peace, but a divisive sword. Matt 10:34; Ps 110:1,2 

The Great Tribulation/Armageddon is Satan’s short period of time to deceive the rest of this seed, “Israel”, under the “woman” covenant of life. Ezek 38:18   Gog and Magog, under Satan’s direction, bring about Armageddon.  Rev 20:8

The remnant today live in a perceived “safety” (Ezek 38:14) in the organization. Yet a great army comes against them, the Man of Lawlessness, the locust/army of Rev 9:1-12 (Ezek 38:15,16) and Joel 2.  

God allows this or “sends” this “army” at Satan’s demand to sift each of us, using deceit. 2 Thess 2:9-12  They are swallowing lies uttered from the false prophet/Beast of Rev 13:11 – the wicked slave – tempting them with the promise of “peace and security” from “Jehovah’s organization”.  But, time has gone by.  Now, the Man of Lawlessness/elder body has thoroughly trampled the Temple of God. Barely, do new members of the organization really know the role of God’s priesthood in the Kingdom of God.   2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1-3  

Christ was also confronted with lying temptations by the devil.  This is the sifting and refinement of hearts, whether we are fully obedient to God and Christ, or fall into the trap of serving men and their thirst for power and greed.  Matt 6:24; Rom 6:16;  Rev 3:18 

Will the anointed wake up and stand for truth, or remain under a wicked slave and his lies?  Rev 19:11,14

PURE WORSHIP OF JEHOVAH - RESTORED AT LAST!

Chapter 9, Paragraph 36 -
After the great war of Armageddon, Jesus will expand his restoration work to cover even the physical earth. During his Thousand Year Reign, he will direct mankind to turn this planet into a global garden of Eden, a paradise, just as Jehovah always intended it to be! (Luke 23:43) Then all humans will be in harmony with one another and with their earthly home. There will be no danger, no threat, anywhere. Imagine a time when even this promise will be fulfilled: “I will make a covenant of peace with them, and I will rid the land of vicious wild beasts, so that they may dwell securely in the wilderness and sleep in the forests.” —Ezek. 34:25.

Paragraph 38 –

We will see this promise fulfilled as well: “They will dwell on [the land] in security and build houses and plant vineyards, and they will dwell in security when I execute judgment on all those around them who treat them with scorn; and they will have to know that I am Jehovah their God.” (Ezek. 28:26) After all of Jehovah’s enemies are gone, we will enjoy peace and security earth wide. As we care for the earth, we will also be able to take care of ourselves and our loved ones, building comfortable houses to live in and planting vineyards to cultivate.

If this is true, there would be no threat to “peace and security” after Armageddon, and after a time period of a “thousand years”.   How could there be, if all enemies are gone?  God's Kingdom would be ruling under those circumstances.  

CHAPTER 17, paragraph 16 –

When will Gog of Magog invade our restored spiritual land? The prophecy answers: “In the final part of the years you will invade the land.” (Ezek. 38:8) This suggests a time close to the end of this system of things. Remember that the great tribulation will begin with the destruction of Babylon the Great, the world empire of false religion. After false religious institutions have been destroyed and before Armageddon begins, Gog will launch a final, all-out attack on true worshippers.

 NOTICE IN THIS CHAPTER, REVELATION 20:9,10 IS NOT MENTIONED. THIS IS A CONVENIENT HABIT OR PLOY, THAT YOUR LEADERS USE TO SKIRT AROUND THE TRUTH.  THIS TIME, IT IS ABOUT THE “THOUSAND YEARS”, AND WHAT FOLLOWS.

Who are the true worshippers that are under Gog’s attack?

^“ Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison ⁸ and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. ⁹ They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. ¹⁰ The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.”  Rev 20:7-10

Pure worship cannot exist or be restored, within a haven of lies. The symbolic thousand year reign of Christ is finished.  Gog and Magog are very present and have already surrounded the camp of the “saints” – the anointed ones -  “beloved city”, “New Jerusalem”, under the New Covenant of God…by using DECEIT, DECEPTION. Gal 4:26  That deceit includes the teaching that a literal thousand-year reign of Christ is still to come.  If so, what follows after that supposed reign when the earth’s inhabitants are at peace and all enemies are GONE?  Gog and Magog will have been thrown into the lake of fire during Armageddon, which is admitted by this book.

The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.”
² The Lord shall send the rod of Your strength out of Zion.
Rule in the midst of Your enemies!  Ps 110:1,2

“But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. ²⁴ Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. ²⁵ For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. ²⁶ The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.” 1 Cor 15:23-26 

This isn’t talking about a thousand years following Armageddon, but when Christ returns.  Death will be destroyed with no resurrection to come a thousand years later.  Rev 20:14,15

Can you see why the “wicked slave” refuses to acknowledge other anointed ones, and why the “saints” are considered shady untrustworthy characters, while the “Gentile” elder body is revered? Matt 24:48-51; Rev 11:1-3; Matt 24:15   They, and all JWs, are under the deceitful power of Gog and Magog – the two Beasts of Revelation 13 – a “false prophet” who 'gives breath' into the Beast which becomes the“spirit-directed organization”. Rev 13:15

Deceit appears as “light”.  2 Cor 11:13-15

Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. ⁵ For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many.⁶ You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. ⁷ Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. ⁸ All these are the beginning of birth pains.  Matt 24:4-8; Rev 12:1,2

Wars – Eph 6:12; Col 2:8

Nations/Kingdoms – 1 Pet 2:5,9; Rev 5:9,10;17:14

“For false Christs and false prophets will arise, and they will show great signs and wonders so as to deceive and lead astray, if possible, even the elect (God’s chosen ones).”  Matt 24:24 (AMPC)

This new book, introduced with supposed words of wisdom by the GB, and sprinkled with beautiful artwork, is full of lies. Or…do you believe God’s Word is lying?  Has the truth in the scriptures escaped your notice?  2 Cor 4:3

 The GB are offering you, “peace and security”, not only through the organization, but through a false belief that a “peaceful” Thousand Year Reign of Christ, is still to come.  1 Thess 5:3

 The end of the symbolic "thousand-year reign of Christ" which began in the first century, is marked by the emergence of the Beasts of Revelation, which are also, Gog and Magog.  This is when Satan is "released" from the abyss to fabricate his most powerful form of deception to come against the rest of the woman's seed. 2 Thess 2:1-12   He utilizes false prophets, a "Beast" and its spirit-breathed "image"/Man of Lawlessness".  Rev 8:10,11; Rev 9:1  Since Gog and Magog are "surrounding the camp of saints", this is accomplished by spiritual "Gentiles" "standing in", surrounding, the Temple of God - the anointed ones, the saints of God. This signifies spiritual war in the form of lies, to come against them.  1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22; Rev 8:10,11; 13:2,11;12:15  It is the Beast that "kills" , disfellowships, those who give testimony of Christ and truth.  Rev 11:1-3,7  Rev 13:7

"Then the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, so that the way of the kings from the east might be prepared. ¹³ And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. ¹⁴ For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth (Rev 1:5,6 - Christ's "kings"/saints) and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty."   Rev 1:12-14

@Space Merchant

Back to the basics, with big letters for emphasis:

Abbaddon in Hebrew:

Ps 88:11 - "Is your love declared in the grave, your faithfulness in Destruction ?"

Job 26:6 - "The realm of the dead is naked before God; Destruction lies uncovered."

 Job 28:22 – "Destruction and Death say, “Only a rumor of it has reached our ears.”

Job 31:12 -  “It is a fire that burns to Destruction ; it would have uprooted my harvest.”

 Prov 15:11 - "Death and Destruction lie open before the LORD— how much more do human hearts!"

This is what you and the WT organization are implying by saying Jesus is Abaddon and angel/king of the abyss.  Rev 9:11  Death and Destruction.  Is this what you want? 

Jesus has a key – AUTHORITY, POWER – to the abyss because he has conquered DEATH.  Satan has a key – AUTHORITY, POWER – to the abyss, who brings DEATH upon us all unless we turn to Christ.

Heb 2:14 - Now since the children have flesh and blood in common, Jesus also shared in these, so that through his death he might destroy the one holding the power of death -- that is, the devil.

 Satan gave WORMWOOD, the falling star, a “KEY” – AUTHORITY, POWER – to poison the waters of truth with lies. Rev 8:11; 9:1

“A third of the waters turned bitter, and many people died from the waters that had become bitter.” Rev 8:10

The power of DEATH AND DESTRUCTION WAS GIVEN TO THE FALSE PROPHET, WORMWOOD.

If Jesus Christ was the angel of the abyss, why would it enter his mind to allow the Beast of Revelation 13:1 to “make war” with his priests? Rev 13:7  If one is King of a nation or realm, he rules over it.  You are saying that Jesus used his authority/key to the abyss to release the Beast of Rev 13:1 This is what you and Watchtower are suggesting by saying Jesus fell from heaven to release the locust army, which is the BEAST of Rev 13:1 and 11:7. 

“Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them.”  Rev 11:7

Do you know who this beast is?  THE MAN OF LAWLESSNESS.  Rev 13:18

2 Thess 2:3,4 – “Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.  He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.”

God's temple are the anointed ones, Christ’s priesthood – the “chosen ones” -  IF they stand up to the beast and “conquer” it with truth. THEN they will be sealed in the heavens.  Rev 9:4; 7:3,4

“And I saw what looked like a sea of glass glowing with fire and, standing beside the sea, those who had been victorious over the beast and its image and over the number of its name.”  Rev 13:15-17

Going back to the abyss, what does the false prophet release? Because it isn’t Christ who releases it.    Rev 9:1  “She” gives freedom to the Beast/locust army/Man of Lawlessness to destroy/”make war” with the remaining ones of the woman’s seed – the saints who are not yet sealed.  She uses deception, by poisoned living waters with lies.   Rev 9:4; 13:2,7;12:17  

There are not two separate identities released from the abyss -  One from Christ as the locust/army and one from Satan - the Beast.  No. They both describe one entity.  Just as Wormwood is described as also a false prophet and a Harlot.  

The saints are in the Watchtower, and JWs know this, where the GB has given AUTHORITY/POWER to the elder body to “kill”, disfellowship,  any called anointed priest who gives testimony of Christ. Rev 13:4; 11:1-3,7; 12:11 Thus, it is the “Gentile” elder body that “stands” in the Temple of God as the Man of Lawlessness.  2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1,2; Matt 24:15

The anointed priests ARE the “living” Temple of God  1 Pet 2:9,10; 2 Cor 6:16

And you, as well as the GB, believe Jesus is the Destroyer and has released this army/Beast to come against his own priesthood.    

“The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, ¹⁰ and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.”  2 Thess 2:9,10

“Woe, you destroyer never destroyed, you traitor never betrayed! When you have finished destroying, you will be destroyed. When you have finished betraying, they will betray you.”  Isa 33:1

I’m not returning to this thread, SM, although I know you will do your best to unravel what I have said, and insist on saying Jesus Christ is the angel of the Abyss and King/Abaddon of the locust army/Beast.  Rev 9:11

Sad, indeed.

ăbaddôwn, ab-ad-done'; intensive from H6; abstract, a perishing; concrete, Hades:—destruction.

Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon – “place of destruction – abyss”

“Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.”  Rev 20:14

21 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

The star mentioned in Revelation 9:1 is different from the one in Revelation 8:10, 11, for it is rather obvious to when one can read the verse for themselves and notice this, a big factor here, against you, is the references.

• The star that came out of heaven and came to earth was the one who has been given (verb) the key. This one was not excused of a heavenly and or exalted position, in fact, this one is spoken of as to having the key to the abyss.
• The other star fell from heaven like a blazing torch. This one is the cause of bitter waters, ruins the truth in regards to falsehood with what it professes.

Clearly I have not said anywhere that they are the same, however only one of them is the Bright Morning Star, which in cross-references points to the verses in Revelation 20 and 22.

I declare, every time I respond to you, I am with the hope that JWs become alert to Watchtower’s lies.

I repeat, when Jesus bound Satan by “putting him in prison”, or binding his capability to deceive God’s people for a symbolic “thousand years”, he didn’t fall from heaven to do so. Rev 20:1

The Greek word for “come down” in Rev 20:1 primarily means to “descend”,

“as from the temple at Jerusalem, from the city of Jerusalem”, or

“of celestial beings coming down to earth”

This is a choice made by the one descending.

Why would he then “fall” to open or unlock the abyss to release a tortuous army that comes against his own unsealed anointed ones?  Rev 9:4  And yes, this is what this army is trained to do.  Rev 9:4,5; 13:6,7

Rev 9:1 – Then the fifth angel sounded: And I saw a star fallen from heaven to the earth.

The word here for “fall” is an entirely different Greek word. It, too, means to “descend” but…

to descend from a higher place to a lower

A.                 to fall (either from or upon)

i.to be thrust down

B.                 metaph. to fall under judgment, came under condemnation

I.to descend from an erect to a prostrate position

 .                    to fall down

 .to be prostrated, fall prostrate

This star didn’t have a choice to leave heaven, as Christ did in Rev 20:1

It is the same Greek word used in Rev 8:1 – “Then the third angel sounded: And a great star fell from heaven, 

A “star” falls, to poison waters of truth, as a false prophet.  Can it do this without Satan’s spirit?  No. It is given the authority from him to deceive.  Rev 9:11; 13:11,12,13,15; 16:13  The “star” uses that authority to release an “army” that enforces the false prophet’s teachings – an army also receiving power from Satan.  Rev 13:1,2; 9:1

The two together create a “spirit-directed” “image” of authority, as if coming from God and Christ. Rev 13:11,15  The fallen star directs her released army to come against the “kings of the earth” (Rev 9:1) – the saints, (Christ’s kings of the earth Rev 1:5) as well as the “nations” who swallow her lies.  Wormwood’s waters are a combination of truthful “waters”, poisoned with deception.  Rev 13:7 

 “She” is a composite of harlot daughters of “Babylon” who “sits on many waters”.  Rev 17:1-6

There are not two separate stars, with one being Christ. You are thus comparing the fall of an anointed “star” from a heavenly position who becomes a false prophet, and applying its significant fall, to Christ;  just as the Watchtower has done.   Dear SM, this is utterly demeaning to the reigning “Bright Morning Star” of Rev 22:16  Earlier I gave scriptures that relate the anointed ones to "stars".  

The abyss is the dark state of “not perceiving”.  We can be part of it, just as the army that emerges from the state of “not perceiving”. 1 Pet 2:9; Eph 6:12; 5:8  It can be a tool of deceit by Satan, or representation of “binding up”, as an imprisonment that Christ used, when figuratively throwing Satan into that state of blindness – of not perceiving, for a symbolic “thousand years”.  Once released from being bound, Satan empowers the fallen star, false prophet to DECEIVE the remaining ones of the woman’s seed.   Rev 8:10-12; 12:4

This army/Beast to come against the “saints”, belongs to Satan.  Rev 9:10,11; 13:1,2,4,7; 12:3

It is an army that God “sends” or allows Satan, who demands each of us to be “sifted”, to enact his delusion against each anointed and companions as wheat or weeds. Luke 22:31;  I’m repeating what I’ve said earlier, I believe. Joel 2:2,4,5,12,20,25-27; 2 Thess 2:9-12 

Many have felt the “sting” of this locust army that comes against the anointed ones.  It judges them as unfit for the Kingdom of God, disfellowshipping or “killing” them for refusing to give devotion to the spirit-directed “image” of the Beast.  Rev 13:15   This army “stands” in the Temple of God (1 Cor 3:16,17; Rev 11:1-3,7) as the Man of Lawlessness.  Rev 13:18; 2 Thess 2:3,4  It tramples and replaces the anointed priesthood, wearing “crowns of something like gold, and their faces were like the faces of men”.   Rev 9:7; Rev 11:1,2; Dan 8:11; 11:36,37

Who, in tandem, gives them the authority to do so?  Satan and “Wormwood” – the GB.  Matt 24:48-51

Those who suffer such condemnation at the hands of Satan’s pawns (John 8:44-47)  are refined of their idolatrous sins and lies fed to them if they submit themselves fully to Christ’s truth.  Mal 3:2,3; Rev 3:18

21 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

I am aware of that but the focus here is of God's Spoken Word, not the Word that became flesh, for if the focus was indeed of The Word that became, hence the verse in Deuteronomy that I brought up.

We should be aware of such a thing, therefore the references do not change, I suggest checking Biblehub because what was said is actually correct in which I professed.

Rev 19:3 

I know you want to teach me, and I truly believe it is done with sincerity, but it is also done as if you are the only man on earth who has Holy Spirit. I do appreciate it when you give links to the meaning of scripture.   But what if, what if, you are the one who may be misled by certain concepts?  What if Jesus allows others who are anointed, to understand the true meaning of Revelation?  Is that such an impossibility?

Just sayin’

4 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

I really do not care about you being a or a former Jehovah's Witness,

I believe I was speaking to Judith.  ?

4 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

The good thing I see you learn, you unlike most do not try to equal Jesus to God for people tend to use the forgery of the verse in the KJV Bible to justify falsehood.

I am about ready to fall off my seat.  A compliment from SM.  Thank you. 

4 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

The verse in question says "my word" [Strong's 1697. דָּבָר (dabar)], it does not point to John 1:1 due to occurrences and what it actually points to in the Bible, or in this case, solely the Old Testament, however Deuteronomy 18:18 does and dabar in question is of God's Spoken Word not of the man who became/soon to become flesh.

“The Word became flesh and dwelt among us. We observed his glory, the glory as the one and only Son* from the Father, full of grace and truth.”  John 1:14

4 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Not wise to compare a human judge of the court to God. God has not changed, and surely he would not change of what is to come.

Who says I am? 

“I watched till thrones were put in place,
And the Ancient of Days was seated;
His garment was white as snow,
And the hair of His head was like pure wool.
His throne was a fiery flame,
Its wheels a burning fire;
¹⁰ A fiery stream issued
And came forth from before Him.
A thousand thousands ministered to Him;
Ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him.
The court was seated,
And the books were opened.

I was watching; and the same horn (of the fourth Beast/Revelation’s Beast from the Sea, Rev 13:1)

 was making war against the saints, (Rev 13:7)

and prevailing against them, ²² until the Ancient of Days came, and a judgment was made in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came for the saints to possess the kingdom.”  Dan 7:9,10,21

4 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Satan is NOT the Bright Morning Star mentioned in Revelation 22:16

Of course he isn’t.  But you are saying that the ruling heavenly King is the same star that falls from his exalted position.    Rev 8:10,11; Rev 9:1     

You forget the many scriptures that compare God’s anointed to stars, that God’s word admonishes they could fall from the light of Christ.   Dan 12:3; Phil 2:15; Isa 49:6; Matt 5:16; 1 Pet 2:9; Gen 15:5; Gal 3:29; Isa 58:8; Isa 60:1-3; 2 Pet 1:19; 1 Thess 5:5; Matt 4:16; Job 38:7; Rev 1:20, 12:4  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Dan+12%3A3%3B+Phil+2%3A15%3B+Isa+49%3A6%3B+Matt+5%3A16%3B+1+Pet+2%3A9%3B+Gen+15%3A5%3B+Gal+3%3A29%3B+Isa+58%3A8%3B+Isa+60%3A1-3%3B+2+Pet+1%3A19%3B+1+Thess+5%3A5%3B+Matt+4%3A16%3B+Job+38%3A7%3B+Rev+1%3A20%2C+12%3A4&version=NKJV

The star fell from heaven, from a “heavenly” position in Christ’s right hand (Rev 1:20) and then received the key to the abyss.  "She" didn’t fall with it in hand.  Rev 9:1  Jesus already held the key to Hades and death.  Rev 1:18    This falling “star” rejected the light of Christ, to obtain the power of darkness.  2 Cor 6:14; 1 John 2:19; 2 Pet 2:1-3; Rev 8:11

4 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

The key in question isn't of authority,

 Strong's G2807 - kleis

a key

A.                since the keeper of the keys has the power to open and to shut

B.                 metaph. in the NT to denote power and authority of various kinds

Your view is physical, not spiritual.  Whatever damage is done to humans who are judged by Christ as not worthy of the Kingdom, is at the hand of the Destroyer, Satan. God removes His protection, and Satan steps in. Exod 12:23   It is through our own free choice that we are judged as receiving either eternal life or death.  God has always warned of coming disaster, as He is doing today through Christ.  We can choose and are guided by the spiritual darkness of the abyss, or the spiritual light radiating from Christ.  Rom 8:14; John 8:44

“For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”  Heb 4:12

This judgment is in progress during  our lifetime.  We can defeat death and the abyss ,where the light of Christ cannot be perceived, or remain in its darkness, alienated from Christ.   1 Cor 15:55

“Therefore, since we have this ministry because we were shown mercy, we do not give up. ² Instead, we have renounced secret and shameful things, not acting deceitfully or distorting the word of God, but commending ourselves before God to everyone’s conscience by an open display of the truth. ³ But if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. ⁴ In their case, the god of this age has blinded the minds of the unbelievers (“not perceiving”/Hades/Sheol/abyss) to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. ⁵ For we are not proclaiming ourselves but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’s sake. ⁶ For God who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of God’s glory in the face of Jesus Christ.”  2 Cor 4:1-6

The word, “blinded” comes from  τυφλός (G5185)  “to raise a smoke; hence, properly, 'darkened by smoke'”

“The fifth angel blew his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from heaven to earth. The key for the shaft to the abyss was given to him. ² He opened the shaft to the abyss, and smoke came up out of the shaft like smoke from a great furnace so that the sun and the air were darkened by the smoke from the shaft. ³ Then locusts came out of the smoke on to the earth, and power was given to them like the power that scorpions have on the earth.”  Rev 9:1-3

The abyss – “not perceiving”, blindness.  Satan, as the King of the abyss gives this ability or key of authority to the fallen star – Wormwood who is the false prophet/ Beast from the Earth.  Rev 13:11

15 hours ago, Judith Sweeney said:

The first thing that my thought goes to is...that this is an artists depiction of a Mighty King aka Jesus Christ executing judgement. 

This is a time of confusion.  I’m giving my spiel as a former JW, while SM is right on my heels trying to shoot down most of what I say; based on his beliefs which primarily originate outside the Watchtower.  Yet, he is also advocating for the organization.

You said Jesus would be "executing judgment".  Would Jesus be both the judge and executer? Acts 17:30,31; James 5:9; 2 Cor 5:10   

Does a judge in a court also execute his judgment?

We don’t believe in hell-fire since the very idea is contrary to a loving God.  Jer 19:5   So, why would God’s view of Armageddon be any different?

2 Pet 3:7 - "But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

Fire represents God’s Word.  Jer 23:29  The “Word” or Logo is Jesus Christ, our judge. John 1:1

Luke 12: 49,51 “I came to send fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!   Do you suppose that I came to give peace on earth? I tell you, not at all, but rather division.”

1 Cor 3:13:  “each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is [to be] revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work.”

John 12:48,49:   ^“He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.  For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.”

“All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, ¹⁷ that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.”  1 Tim 3:16,17

He is our judge, not the executor, who is Satan, the King of the Abyss.  Revelation is a symbolic book, implying the spiritual war of truth against lies, which is now at hand.  2 Cor 10:4,5; 2 Tim 4:7; Eph 6:12; Rev 12:17; 16:13,14

9 hours ago, Judith Sweeney said:

This condemnation is applicable to Christendom.

Judith, when you look at this picture, how do you interpret it?