Shiwiii

show me where in the Bible it says you must "study diligently". 
 
bahahahaha, you mean your education on what a eunuch is? bahahahahahaha
completely irrelevant! so you telling us the story again proves what? NOTHING. It is a fact that the eunuch was baptized, but he didn't even know what he was reading! verses 31&31. Give me a break sm, you stretch things so far to try and validate yourself its on the border of narcissism.
 
Was baptism necessary for the thief on the cross next to Jesus? NOPE. 
 
 

I wouldn't do it, you're going to melt snowflakes! 

wow, really? and you believe this? You are a perfect candidate for recruitment into whatever cult blows this way this week. 

I wouldn't do it, you're going to melt snowflakes! 

@Shiwiii I think I can picture your reaction lol 😁

Truth be told, it's kinda common that some people don't like to wear graphic tees.

Whaaaaaaa

"to follow the teachings of the teacher and so forth."  My comment here was about Watchtower's baptisms, which do NOT follow the teachings of the teacher - Jesus Christ.   This is truth.  I will not entertain your whim to degrade anything and everything I have said here.
Fire away, SM.    I am finished.  
 
 

stretching it a bit aren't we? I mean on a full on technicality yes you are correct, but if we are going to use logic and common sense, you fail. If you really want to believe this , go right ahead, the rest of us will continue in the real world. 
 
if Jesus is our example and this was how He said to do it, then why is it not adhered to? Oh, that's right, because YOU and the wt know better. Got it. 
 
I didn't even read this past a few sentences, why? because it is the same thing from you. A twist or some convoluted definition of a word that technically makes you seem correct. Again, believe what you'd like and I'll do as well. Those of us who reside in the real world will continue to understand implications of words and context just fine. 
 
Just curious, why is it that every answer you give to me has this same ring to it? It always comes back to a broad definition that makes your argument technically correct even when you know it isn't?   

It's nice to see children dedicating their lives to Jehovah, unfortunately they are also dedicating their lives to an idol called the wtbts in a contract for life.

"I will refresh the weary and satisfy the faint.”  Jer 31:25
 

no one argues that children are capable of aligning with God and naturally some do. However, child baptism is not spoken of in the Bible. There are many scriptures about teaching them, but none about baptizing them. You are twisting scripture to support your position on children. The scripture states what Jesus said to His disciples and even then the jw falls short on exactly how Jesus said to baptize. 
18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[b] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
 
this whole statement here provides nothing to the conversation of child baptism. 
 
again, How can a child understand the concept of repentance when they in general, commit the same mistakes over and over?   They can't, that's why there are age appropriate punishments.  I wrote this again because it really is this simple, Children learn from their parents and by experiences, but that does not give them the ability to understand consequences of all sorts. For instance, a child does not comprehend the consequence of failure to obey the law, they just know it is bad or they might get thrown in jail, not the actual consequences. 

I think the reason why is because of how the wt holds it over the children in such a way that they are shunned if the child makes a mistake, as children usually do. This takes the authority away from the parents to teach and guide their children and gives it to the wt. Such a decision should not be made by children, but rather when they become adults and are fully informed of the repercussions of not following the company policy. 
as far as the origin of baptism as a whole, I do not recall of an instance of a child being baptized in the Bible. In fact Jesus Himself was not until He reached the age of 30, and since He is our guide and example, shouldn't we also adhere to His standard/example? 
How can a child understand the concept of repentance when they in general, commit the same mistakes over and over?   They can't, that's why there are age appropriate punishments.  

I think the reason why is because of how the wt holds it over the children in such a way that they are shunned if the child makes a mistake, as children usually do. This takes the authority away from the parents to teach and guide their children and gives it to the wt. Such a decision should not be made by children, but rather when they become adults and are fully informed of the repercussions of not following the company policy. 
as far as the origin of baptism as a whole, I do not recall of an instance of a child being baptized in the Bible. In fact Jesus Himself was not until He reached the age of 30, and since He is our guide and example, shouldn't we also adhere to His standard/example? 
How can a child understand the concept of repentance when they in general, commit the same mistakes over and over?   They can't, that's why there are age appropriate punishments.  

But wait, did the wt print the news articles about child abuse? I mean we all know that is a problem within the org. 

So why then does said practice have to be defined? Have they run out of material/spiritual food, kinda like tv shows sometimes? 
Is it going to be in the next wt that murder might be a disfellowshiping offence?
They created more questions then the answer they gave. Silly really.
 

Did a foreign nation want Jesus killed, or was he persecuted by his own people? 
On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”
27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind (Deut 6:8); and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’(Lev 19:28)”
28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.” 
That isn’t an empty promise, is it?  However, is it possible to love God in this way, when a towering organization requires servitude, devotion and love as well?  Why would Christ’s teachings need any adjustment by men?  Why would we need further decrees developed by anyone other than those of Christ and the apostles.  We have the Bible, which is all we need.
 Deut 6:8 - Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads.
17 Be sure to keep the commands of the Lord your God and the stipulations and decrees he has given you. 18 Do what is right and good in the Lord’s sight, so that it may go well with you and you may go in and take over the good land the Lord promised on oath to your ancestors, 19 thrusting out all your enemies before you, as the Lord said.  Deut 6:17-19
Lev 19
“‘Do not steal.
“‘Do not lie.
“‘Do not deceive one another.
12 “‘Do not swear falsely by My name and so profane the name of your God. I am the Lord.
13 “‘Do not defraud or rob your neighbor.
“‘Do not hold back the wages of a hired worker overnight.
14 “‘Do not curse the deaf or put a stumbling block in front of the blind, but fear your God. I am the Lord.
15 “‘Do not pervert justice; do not show partiality to the poor or favoritism to the great, but judge your neighbor fairly.
16 “‘Do not go about spreading slander among your people.
“‘Do not do anything that endangers your neighbor’s life. I am the Lord.
17 “‘Do not hate a fellow Israelite in your heart. Rebuke your neighbor frankly so you will not share in their guilt.
18 “‘Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the Lord.
19 “‘Keep my decrees.
“‘Keep all my decrees and all my laws and follow them. I am the Lord.’”  Lev 19:11-19,37
 
Has the Watchtower followed all of the above?  What about disfellowshipping those who refuse to serve an organization?  What about perverting justice to victims of abuse?  What about teachings and prophesies that have deceived its members?  And the list goes on.
 
Israel grew fat and kicked;
    filled with food, they became heavy and sleek.
They abandoned the God who made them
    and rejected the Rock their Savior.
16 They made Him jealous with their foreign gods
    and angered Him with their detestable idols.
17 They sacrificed to false gods, which are not God—
    gods they had not known,
    gods that recently appeared,
    gods your ancestors did not fear.
18 You deserted the Rock, who fathered you;
    you forgot the God who gave you birth.
19 The Lord saw this and rejected them
    because he was angered by his sons and daughters.
20 “I will hide my face from them,” he said,
    “and see what their end will be;
for they are a perverse generation,
    children who are unfaithful.  Deut 32:15-20
 
WT 85/3/15 p. 10 -   “GOD’S ORGANIZATION.” That expression was used by a member of the Watch Tower Society’s editorial staff during the daily Bible discussion at the Bethel dining tables over 60 years ago. How it thrilled the headquarters family in Brooklyn, New York! That UNIQUE PHRASE, “God’s organization,” served to GUIDE THE FUTURE THINKING, SPEECH AND WRITING of those Bible Students. It broadened their spiritual VISION with regard to all creation and greatly influenced their attitude toward the marvelous Organizer of the universe, Jehovah God. 
w89 12/15 p. 24 -  To render acceptable sacrifices, we must cooperate fully with God’s organization. 
Who says?  God?  Jesus? Or men? 
w11 1/15 pp. 3-7 -  Still, as a people, “the chosen ones” and their loyal companions will physically survive the end of apostate Christendom by taking refuge in Jehovah and his mountainlike organization.
Isn’t God our Rock?  Is there another?
 Fear the Lord your God, serve Him only and take your oaths in His name. 14 Do not follow other gods, the gods of the peoples around you;15 for the Lord your God, who is among you, is a jealous God and his anger will burn against you, and he will destroy you from the face of the land. 16 Do not put the Lord your God to the test as you did at Massah.17 Be sure to keep the commands of the Lord your God and the stipulations and decrees he has given you. 18 Do what is right and good in the Lord’s sight, so that it may go well with you and you may go in and take over the good land the Lord promised on oath to your ancestors, 19 thrusting out all your enemies before you, as the Lord said.  Deut 6:13-19
God never abandoned the nation of Israel when His decrees were followed.  The organization has proven it cannot rescue anyone in times of adversity.  It is heart-wrenching to see this persecution exist, because people are trusting in a “unique” vision instead of trusting fully on God.  During this time period, those that give their testimony to Christ in front of their own people must expect persecution. 
“If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. 20 Remember what I told you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. 21 They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the one who sent me. 
Who does he mean by the “world”?
22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin.
 He spoke truth to his people and they rejected him, they killed him.  When anointed and companions speak against a false god, its leaders and its lies; turning completely to their Rock and their Savior, they are persecuted and rejected by their people. They are considered spiritually “dead”. They are following in the path of Christ.  John 16:2; Rev 13:14-17
WT 17/10 - “In these last days, Jehovah’s people have been able to do a great work. This has been possible because of Jehovah’s blessing and Christ’s leadership. We are happy to be part of a STABLE, SECURE, AND EVERLASTING ORGANIZATION, and we know that Jehovah’s purpose for pure worship will come true.”
“Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings. It is good for our hearts to be strengthened by grace, not by eating ceremonial (“spiritual”) foods, which is of no benefit to those who do so. 
11 The high priest carries the blood of animals into the Most Holy Place as a sin offering, but the bodies are burned outside the camp. 12 And so Jesus also suffered outside the city gate (of Jerusalem) to make the people holy through his own blood. 13 Let us, then, go to him outside the camp, bearing the disgrace he bore. 14 For here we do not have an enduring city, but we are looking for the city that is to come.  Heb 13:9,10,11-14
Srecko is speaking of worshiping in the Spirit and in Truth:
John 4:23,24 “Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”
And you are faulting him for it, for following Jesus’ words?  I would guess he has already suffered greatly for his stance against his own people, where spiritual “Israel” reside.  We do not have an enduring physical organization established in the world of Satan, that will lead us into the Kingdom.  We have Christ.  John 10:7-10
Hear the word of the Lord,
You who tremble at HIS word:
“Your brethren who hated you,
Who cast you out for My name’s sake, said,
‘Let the Lord be glorified,
That we may see your joy.’
But they shall be ashamed.”  Isa 66:5
 
 
 
 

to touch them.... well, text speaking about touching children for blessings, not baptizing children.
dear Outta Here, wrong interpretation and misapplication of bible text, for sure. 

So equating coming to Jesus to be blessed with baptism is how you justify this practice?  Reread the scripture you quoted, it states NOTHING about baptizing. This is the classic example of where the wt has trained it's followers to use scripture out of context just as they do.

So equating coming to Jesus to be blessed with baptism is how you justify this practice?  Reread the scripture you quoted, it states NOTHING about baptizing. This is the classic example of where the wt has trained it's followers to use scripture out of context just as they do.

For today's WT study w18 December par. 16
If a criminal who deserves to die, and mocks Jesus to his face even during the crucifixion itself (read the whole passage), only has to profess he wants to be remembered by Jesus at the very last minute, then the whole purpose of needing to get people baptised and dedicated as JW's is rubbish.
This passage suggests belief in Jesus is enough and that even as late as your dying breath you can be redeemed! So works are not what saves you, being baptised is not what saves you, being identified with a certain church is not what saves you. Belief and faith in Jesus is what saves you and even mocking Jesus can't kill you if you have a last minute change of heart.
Reading this properly has serious consequences for the validity of WT theology, and I always had trouble with this passage when I was in as I couldn't understand why we had so much pressure to go door to door as much as possible and strong arm people in bible studies. The passage suggests Jesus only required we spread the good news so they could believe and not fanatical pestering of people to beome part of a fundamentalist religion.

Have you not seen false visions and uttered lying divinations when you say, “The Lord declares,” though I have not spoken?
GB claim how they are "spirit guided", and that The Watchtower as main food instrument for feeding JW people, "declares God's words". We can find sentences in WT publications that directly connecting JHVH and Jesus as speaking through WT magazine and publications. But we see how JHVH not spoken nothing to Them. GB is under "false visions" guidance.   

I did. 
 
I have read not all of it but enough of it to formulate my opinion and make a good comment in good conscience.
 
Tom, you have written with a passion and a poise from your true belief and heart. I cannot deny that fact. I commend you for the amount of what you put into words and can honestly say that it truly takes a writer to write as much as you have in this, and the other books you have written. You have given the reader a solid grasp of the topic you represent and that is something I struggle to see here in this forum at times. While I understand that everyone writes for different reasons, some want to provide facts while others want to present missed information and many more reasons. The only thing I can say about your book that is relevant to this topic on this forum, is that it is a  opinion piece. There is nothing wrong with that, it just is what it is. I appreciate the fact that you let me read it, it gives me more understanding of who you are and where your thoughts reside. Thank you Tom. 

lol, no offense ever taken over it. It is actually spelled with only one i at the end. I think somehow the forum made me add them. 
 
https://glosbe.com/zun/en/shiwi
 
http://ashiwi-museum.org/
 
 

I did. 
 
I have read not all of it but enough of it to formulate my opinion and make a good comment in good conscience.
 
Tom, you have written with a passion and a poise from your true belief and heart. I cannot deny that fact. I commend you for the amount of what you put into words and can honestly say that it truly takes a writer to write as much as you have in this, and the other books you have written. You have given the reader a solid grasp of the topic you represent and that is something I struggle to see here in this forum at times. While I understand that everyone writes for different reasons, some want to provide facts while others want to present missed information and many more reasons. The only thing I can say about your book that is relevant to this topic on this forum, is that it is a  opinion piece. There is nothing wrong with that, it just is what it is. I appreciate the fact that you let me read it, it gives me more understanding of who you are and where your thoughts reside. Thank you Tom. 

I did. 
 
I have read not all of it but enough of it to formulate my opinion and make a good comment in good conscience.
 
Tom, you have written with a passion and a poise from your true belief and heart. I cannot deny that fact. I commend you for the amount of what you put into words and can honestly say that it truly takes a writer to write as much as you have in this, and the other books you have written. You have given the reader a solid grasp of the topic you represent and that is something I struggle to see here in this forum at times. While I understand that everyone writes for different reasons, some want to provide facts while others want to present missed information and many more reasons. The only thing I can say about your book that is relevant to this topic on this forum, is that it is a  opinion piece. There is nothing wrong with that, it just is what it is. I appreciate the fact that you let me read it, it gives me more understanding of who you are and where your thoughts reside. Thank you Tom.