Is there more than one Tree of Life?

[HollyW]

Is there one Tree of Life which the 144K anointed JWs eat from and receive immortality, and another that everyone else has access to in order to continue to live?

I wondered about this when its discussion came up in another thread: 

 http://forum.theworldnewsmedia.org/topic/16074-resurrection-during-the-thousand-year-reign/?page=3

 

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On 7/2/2016 at 1:13 AM, Eoin Joyce said:

 Adam and Eve were expelled from the Garden of Eden to stop them from eating from the tree of life. There is no mention of them eating from this tree prior to sinning or that they even knew of its existence. So, whilst perfect and not subject to sin and its consequence death, they still had not been granted everlasting life by Jehovah by being permitted to eat from that tree.

[SonOfcaleb]

The Tree of Life in Eden as you know was symbolic. The Tree didn't possess anything intrinsic within it that could provide ever lasting life as Adam and Eve were created perfect and thus had the abiity to live forever. Eating of the Tree of Life was a priviliege that they would have been able to partake of if they'd been obedient and not eaten from Tree of Knowledge. As we know they choose to eat from the ToK and were ousted from Eden as a result of their sinful disobedience.

Now the ToL did not bestow immortality on anyone eating from that tree. The Tree symbolically only provided ever lasting life. Also human beings are not and cannot be immortal, and that includes perfect human beings. Immortality is a direct 'gift' from God that was given to Jesus when he returned to Heaven, along with the 144,000 who also recieve the gift of immortality from Jehovahs Holy Spirit which is attested to by the Apostle Paul. Only spirit beings can be immortal and thus recieve immortality. 

In the 'New System of Things' there will not be a 'Tree' to partake of. During Judgement Day those Jesus & the 144,000 deem to be 'righteous' will recieve ever lasting life on the basis of their faith and works.

[HollyW]

5 hours ago, SonOfcaleb said:

The Tree of Life in Eden as you know was symbolic. The Tree didn't possess anything intrinsic within it that could provide ever lasting life as Adam and Eve were created perfect and thus had the abiity to live forever. Eating of the Tree of Life was a priviliege that they would have been able to partake of if they'd been obedient and not eaten from Tree of Knowledge. As we know they choose to eat from the ToK and were ousted from Eden as a result of their sinful disobedience.

Now the ToL did not bestow immortality on anyone eating from that tree. The Tree symbolically only provided ever lasting life. Also human beings are not and cannot be immortal, and that includes perfect human beings. Immortality is a direct 'gift' from God that was given to Jesus when he returned to Heaven, along with the 144,000 who also recieve the gift of immortality from Jehovahs Holy Spirit which is attested to by the Apostle Paul. Only spirit beings can be immortal and thus recieve immortality. 

In the 'New System of Things' there will not be a 'Tree' to partake of. During Judgement Day those Jesus & the 144,000 deem to be 'righteous' will recieve ever lasting life on the basis of their faith and works.

The WTS says that the tree of life is symbolic of God's provision for sustained life.....immortality for the 144,000…….continuing life for everyone else (until they sin and die in the lake of fire.)

Evidently the WTS does view the tree of life that the anointed eat from and the trees of life the other sheep eat from as being different trees of life:

[Rev.Cli. p.36-37] “Let the one who has an ear hear what the spirit says to the congregations: To him that conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.” (Revelation 2:7) .......the reference here must be to the heavenly gardenlike realm inherited by these conquerors. There, “in the paradise of God,” yes, in the very presence of Jehovah himself, these overcomers who have been granted immortality will continue to live eternally, as symbolized here by their eating of the tree of life.

 

[Rev.Cli. p.312] “And on this side of the river and on that side there were trees of life producing twelve crops of fruit, yielding their fruits each month. And the leaves of the trees were for the curing of the nations.” (Revelation 22:2b) These “trees of life” must also picture part of Jehovah’s provision for giving eternal life to obedient mankind.

 

Though it is called "eternal life", in reality the WTS teaching shows that it is not "eternal life" for those on earth, but just "continuing life". IOW they continue to live for as long as they merit it on their own righteousness, without Jesus to plead for them. [Reference: w06 8/15 p.31 QFR]
 

[SonOfcaleb]

The important point to remember here is the Tree's in the Garden were literal. Their meanings of course just like the Tree's in Revelation that you've qouted were/are symbolic. Your original question was:-

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Is there one Tree of Life which the 144K anointed JWs eat from and receive immortality, and another that everyone else has access to in order to continue to live

As i said already there is no literal Tree that the 144,000 have to partake of to recieve immortality bearing in mind the 144,000s destiny is as spirit creatures in Heaven, EG Angels. It would be unreasonable to think these annointed ones by God personally would have to partake of the fruit of a literal tree in order to recieve immortality. In fact theres no scripture in the Bible that supports such a notion.

Revelation 20:14 says "And death and the Grave were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire." Jesus was very clear here to John that death and the grave would perish forever in the symbolic Lake of Fire of which there is no return and no ressurection. Therefore there will be no Adamic death anymore as a result of Adamic sin. In addition all those alive after Satan is finally destroyed will have their names symbolically etched in the Book of Life and will recieve ever lasting life. Unlike Adam who choose death these ones would have faithfully passed the test and proven their commitment to Jehovah and his Kingdom. Therefore this isn't continued life, its true ever lasting life which was once also Adams destiny if he'd have been obedient. as he too would have been able to eat from the Tree of Life and live forever.

In the extremely unlikely event that some were to rebel there would be no ransom sacrifice for them. In addition the example for what happens with rebels or resistors would have been already proven. Thus their fate would be death. But which 'perfect' sensible human being after all that Mankind has gone through would choose death over life in a Paradise Earth....

 

[HollyW]

11 minutes ago, SonOfcaleb said:

The important point to remember here is the Tree's in the Garden were literal. Their meanings of course just like the Tree's in Revelation that you've qouted were/are symbolic. Your original question was:-

As i said already there is no literal Tree that the 144,000 have to partake of to recieve immortality bearing in mind the 144,000s destiny is as spirit creatures in Heaven, EG Angels. It would be unreasonable to think these annointed ones by God personally would have to partake of the fruit of a literal tree in order to recieve immortality. In fact theres no scripture in the Bible that supports such a notion.

Revelation 20:14 says "And death and the Grave were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire." Jesus was very clear here to John that death and the grave would perish forever in the symbolic Lake of Fire of which there is no return and no ressurection. Therefore there will be no Adamic death anymore as a result of Adamic sin. In addition all those alive after Satan is finally destroyed will have their names symbolically etched in the Book of Life and will recieve ever lasting life. Unlike Adam who choose death these ones would have faithfully passed the test and proven their commitment to Jehovah and his Kingdom. Therefore this isn't continued life, its true ever lasting life which was once also Adams destiny if he'd have been obedient. as he too would have been able to eat from the Tree of Life and live forever.

In the extremely unlikely event that some were to rebel there would be no ransom sacrifice for them. In addition the example for what happens with rebels or resistors would have been already proven. Thus their fate would be death. But which 'perfect' sensible human being after all that Mankind has gone through would choose death over life in a Paradise Earth....

 

I was referring to the tree of life as being symbolic.  For some, the WTS says it is symbolic of immortality, but for others it is not.  It is also said to be in different places, one in heaven and the other on earth, hence two different trees of life as presented by the WTS.

You ask "which perfect sensible human being after all that Mankind has gone through would choose death over life in a Paradise Earth...." the answer from the WTS is that there will be a vast number of perfect humans who do so...a number so large it can't be counted, will choose death over life, will choose war over peace---even after a thousand years of peace and study of WTS publications to attain the perfection Adam had before he sinned.

And after that, evidently there will still be some who sin and will be cast into the lake of fire, their faith in Jesus and his sacrifice not being enough to give Jehovah confidence that they will never sin again and thus give them immortality.

[SonOfcaleb]

2 minutes ago, HollyW said:

You ask "which perfect sensible human being after all that Mankind has gone through would choose death over life in a Paradise Earth...." the answer from the WTS is that there will be a vast number of perfect humans who do so...a number so large it can't be counted, will choose death over life, will choose war over peace---even after a thousand years of peace and study of WTS publications to attain the perfection Adam had before he sinned.

And after that, evidently there will still be some who sin and will be cast into the lake of fire, their faith in Jesus and his sacrifice not being enough to give Jehovah confidence that they will never sin again and thus give them immortality.

And that time period refers to before Jesus hands over the Kingdom to his father, EG during Judgement Day. Eternal life for those who have been faithful is only granted after Satan and his demons are finally destroyed. Your initial point was when those on Earth would recieve ever lasting life. Therefore my point still stands.

You seem to be confusing immortality with ever lasting life. Even after death, hades, and Satan are cast into the Lake of Fire perfect humankind will not be immortal. The destiny for faithful humankind as per Revelation is ever lasting life. Not immortality. Immortality is only given to the 144,000 who will rule in Heaven. As ive already said humans are inherently mortal.

[HollyW]

29 minutes ago, SonOfcaleb said:

And that time period refers to before Jesus hands over the Kingdom to his father, EG during Judgement Day. Eternal life for those who have been faithful is only granted after Satan and his demons are finally destroyed. Your initial point was when those on Earth would recieve ever lasting life. Therefore my point still stands.

You seem to be confusing immortality with ever lasting life. Even after death, hades, and Satan are cast into the Lake of Fire perfect humankind will not be immortal. The destiny for faithful humankind as per Revelation is ever lasting life. Not immortality. Immortality is only given to the 144,000 who will rule in Heaven. As ive already said humans are inherently mortal.

The WTS says all of this takes place after Jesus hands over the Kingdom to his Father.

For example, see the commentary on Revelation, "Revelation---Its Grand Climax at Hand" on pg. 291:

The Final Test

 

19 By the end of the Thousand Year Reign, all earth will have come to resemble the original Eden. It will be a veritable paradise. Perfect mankind will no longer need a high priest to intercede for it before God, since all traces of Adamic sin will have been removed and the last enemy, death, brought to nothing. Christ’s Kingdom will have achieved God’s purpose to create one world with one government. At this point, Jesus “hands over the kingdom to his God and Father.”—1 Corinthians 15:22-26; Romans 15:12.

 

 

20 It is now time for a final test. Will that perfected world of mankind, in contrast with the first humans in Eden, stand firm in its integrity? John tells us what happens: “Now as soon as the thousand years have been ended, Satan will be let loose out of his prison, and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war. The number of these is as the sand of the sea. And they advanced over the breadth of the earth and encircled the camp of the holy ones and the beloved city.”—Revelation 20:7-9a.

 

So, it's at the end of the thousand years, when everyone on earth has reached perfection, meeting God's standards physically, mentally, morally, and spiritually---before the final test---the WTS indicates that it's at this point Jesus hands over the kingdom in fulfillment of 1 Corinthians 15:24.

The Bible shows that a vast number of those on earth will side with Satan in going to war.

However, even after that, the WTS says that mankind will continue to face sin and death, but this time without Jesus to save them.

 

[Ann O'Maly]

On 8/1/2016 at 10:17 AM, SonOfcaleb said:

 

The Tree of Life in Eden as you know was symbolic. The Tree didn't possess anything intrinsic within it that could provide ever lasting life as Adam and Eve were created perfect and thus had the abiity to live forever.  Eating of the Tree of Life was a priviliege that they would have been able to partake of if they'd been obedient and not eaten from Tree of Knowledge....

... Now the ToL did not bestow immortality on anyone eating from that tree. The Tree symbolically only provided ever lasting life.

 

Hmm.

But they were literal trees, right? 

Why, after A & E sinned, did the ToL have to be guarded if it was just a symbol? Why not remove the symbolism of the tree and make it ordinary instead? If sinful A & E had got to the ToL and eaten its fruit, what would have happened?

Genesis 3:22-24 - Jehovah God then said: “Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad [This was after eating literal fruit from the literal tree - Ann]. Now in order that he may not put his hand out and take fruit also from the tree of life and eat and live forever,—” 23 With that Jehovah God expelled him from the garden of Eʹden to cultivate the ground from which he had been taken. 24 So he drove the man out, and he posted at the east of the garden of Eʹden the cherubs and the flaming blade of a sword that was turning continuously to guard the way to the tree of life.