Are the 24 Elders in Revelation the 144,000? Is the Watchtower about to drop this doctrine?

[JW Insider]

Look at the picture in the March 2017 Watchtower (Study Edition). I've attached it below, but the whole article is also here:

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/watchtower-study-march-2017/give-honor-to-whom-it-is-due/

Since 1995, all WT references to the "24 elders" have also included an explanation that they represent the full anticipated number of the 144,000 in their heavenly, resurrected to heaven. (Sometimes this is stated as if it means, only the current number of already resurrected members of the 144,000 at any given time, even during the time when a significant portion of them are still on earth.) Although the exact meaning is a bit hard to pin down, sometimes, the WT has even drawn chronological conclusions about the 24 elders as of 1935, for example. But we can get to that later, if anyone is interested. 

For the first time in 20 years, the Watchtower has mentioned the "24 elders" and never specifically said in the article that they represent the 144,000. The article not only mentions them in the text, but shows a picture of them, asks the reader to look at the picture, and also merely combines them with other heavenly creatures (myriads of angels and the 4 living creatures) in a second, less direct reference. It's an unusual amount of attention drawn to the "24 elders" without any reference to their meaning.

This might not mean anything, of course, but this latest WT reference would nearly mark a decade since the Watchtower specifically mentioned the "24 elders" at all! (And the last two mentions about a decade ago were really brought up only because of a convoluted bit of circular reasoning to try to show that the first resurrection most probably started before 1935 because one of these elders in Revelation asked John who the "great crowd" was. This supposedly showed that one of these spirit creatures must have been communicating from beyond the veil with Brother Rutherford, or persons close to him, before 1935.)

*** w07 1/1 p. 28 par. 11 “The First Resurrection”—Now Under Way! ***
What, then, can we deduce from the fact that one of the 24 elders identifies the great crowd to John? It seems that resurrected ones of the 24-elders group may be involved in the communicating of divine truths today. Why is that important? Because the correct identity of the great crowd was revealed to God’s anointed servants on earth in 1935. If one of the 24 elders was used to convey that important truth, he would have had to be resurrected to heaven by 1935 at the latest. That would indicate that the first resurrection began sometime between 1914 and 1935.

The idea that Rutherford was communicating with the spirit of someone who had died might feel a bit uncomfortable, and perhaps that is even a factor in a potential change -- if there is a potential change, that is. 

One could also argue from these most recent WT references that there is no change, because the wording is precise enough to allow for the current doctrine to remain. However, it might also have been true in the past that certain doctrines changed because someone asked (or tested out) whether there was a level of concern, or if there had been a lot of questions about it -- especially the questions that come in to the Service Department from Circuit Overseers and elders with reference to disfellowshipping. We have seen, for example, changes to doctrines about blood products in vaccines, organ transplants, [un]acceptable blood fractions, private sexual practices within the confines of marriage, working for a company associated with false religion or a branch of the military, certain types of voting, etc. Many doctrines related to such subjects were stated one way, then dropped from discussion for several years and then sometimes restated in an ambiguous way. The idea might have been to test whether the ambiguous statements resulted in any questions or concerns. If there were no concerns, then the doctrine could be dealt with later. Not all of these were about serious disfellowshipping matters.

I saw this happen with a brother I worked for at Bethel who wanted to "float a trial balloon" about a doctrine he had once championed claiming that the heart was the actual, physical seat of emotion and desire. He said he could try out a talk in Europe where he had served as a Branch Overseer and see if it raised questions over there, and if the concerns seemed important enough to deal with, or if they could be safely ignored. He had an idea about the meaning of "this generation" that he tested out this way on European audiences, too. Brother F.W.Franz was also known for being able to give talks about several subjects in a very ambiguous manner which evidently helped test out their usefulness for a doctrinal article. He did this in talks on "1975," "the Governing Body," and even one in 1978 on the figurative meaning of "fat" and the "liver" when mentioned in the Hebrew Scriptures.

So that's the background to this particular conjecture -- and that's all it is, conjecture.

The wording that refers to the "24 elders" strikes me as an interesting, if ambiguous, replacement of the usual description and explanation. Note how the term "exalted creatures" replaces the term "24 elders" below. (I have also attached the scripture reference that wasn't spelled out in the article, although you can click on the link.)

Exalted creatures in the heavenly realm lift their voices in praise to Jehovah, “the One who lives forever and ever.” They declare: “You are worthy, Jehovah our God, to receive the glory and the honor and the power, because you created all things, and because  of your will they came into existence and were created.”—Rev. 4:9-11.

(Revelation 4:9-11) 9 Whenever the living creatures give glory and honor and thanksgiving to the One seated on the throne, the One who lives forever and ever, 10 the 24 elders fall down before the One seated on the throne and worship the One who lives forever and ever, and they cast their crowns before the throne, saying: 11 “You are worthy, Jehovah our God, to receive the glory and the honor and the power, because you created all things, and because of your will they came into existence and were created.”

Do you not feel moved to join with myriads of heavenly creatures in proclaiming: “The Lamb who was slaughtered is worthy to receive the power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing.”—Rev. 5:12.

(Revelation 5:11, 12) 11 And I saw, and I heard a voice of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders, and the number of them was myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands, 12 and they were saying with a loud voice: “The Lamb who was slaughtered is worthy to receive the power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing.”

Think of congregation elders, circuit overseers, Branch Committee members, and the members of the Governing Body. Our brothers and sisters in the first century had high regard for those appointed to take the lead, and we feel similarly today. We do not idolize well-known representatives of the Christian congregation or react in their presence as if angels were standing nearby.

---- end of quotes ---

That highlighted phrase about angels might seem very out of place because nothing explains it in the context. It might refer to a paragraph that was edited out of this issue. I'm guessing that it was probably a reference to a point that made it into the previous February 2017 Study edition. The connection is vague because this point is not expanded upon very much in either issue.

 And Jehovah told him: “Lead the people to the place about which I have spoken to you. Look! My angel will go ahead of you.” (Ex. 32:34) The Bible does not report that the Israelites saw a materialized angel perform those duties. However, the way Moses instructed and guided the people made it clear that he had superhuman help. . . .  Nevertheless, despite the imperfections of these men, the Israelites were expected to follow their lead. Jehovah was supporting those men with his superhuman agents. Yes, Jehovah was leading his people.

However, the rejection of the idea that something like "angels" are standing nearby could also come from an idea that has been stated out loud by people who see the GB in person. It's a common phrase heard by visiting tours at Bethel who appreciate the value of the work and say something like "you can just tell that the angels are standing nearby." Even a couple of the JW Broadcasting broadcasts have come very close to presenting phrases like this when a building project, or Bible-printing project is spoken of and the speaker adds, in effect, 'you could just see the hand of Jehovah in all this.' [2015 JWB] Or, 'you just know the angels were looking on in delight.' [2014 convention experience].

It was also a joke about my grandmother's driving. She once made a left turn onto the railroad tracks, and her survival was attributed to the fact that "an angel must be riding alongside her." Another elder answered, "No angel would dare ride along with her, Brother ..."

But there is a slight chance, too, that the omission is purposeful, and is tied to the removal of angelic beings from the picture. The idea that any of the 24 elders were in direct contact with Rutherford, or persons around him in the past, might now be seen as a dangerous teaching. This could be a first step toward removing that picture from our teachings.

 

[Anna]

19 hours ago, JW Insider said:

For the first time in 20 years, the Watchtower has mentioned the "24 elders" and never specifically said in the article that they represent the 144,000. The article not only mentions them in the text, but shows a picture of them, asks the reader to look at the picture, and also merely combines them with other heavenly creatures (myriads of angels and the 4 living creatures) in a second, less direct reference. It's an unusual amount of attention drawn to the "24 elders" without any reference to their meaning.

True. And you may be on to something!

19 hours ago, JW Insider said:

*** w07 1/1 p. 28 par. 11 “The First Resurrection”—Now Under Way! ***
What, then, can we deduce from the fact that one of the 24 elders identifies the great crowd to John? It seems that resurrected ones of the 24-elders group may be involved in the communicating of divine truths today. Why is that important? Because the correct identity of the great crowd was revealed to God’s anointed servants on earth in 1935. If one of the 24 elders was used to convey that important truth, he would have had to be resurrected to heaven by 1935 at the latest. That would indicate that the first resurrection began sometime between 1914 and 1935.

I remember this WT study very well, including this particular paragraph and the sentence I underscored. It was the first time that something written in the WT really bothered me. I just had this weird feeling about it, that it just didn't sound right. In my mind I asked myself how was that meant, "communicating divine truths" ? And why would the resurrected ones communicate only some divine truths, and leave others out? This whole idea made it sound like the GB were getting some kind of visions, or ideas put in their heads (by the other members of the GB who had died). This did not sound right at all since the only helper Jesus said his father would give us was the holy spirit. And we can all be the beneficiaries of that, not just the GB. And we don't get visions or dreams so why would the GB get exclusive treatment when still on earth? The only time they differ from "us" is that they have "been called to heaven", I am not aware of any scripture which indicates that the GB would "receive divine truths" by some communication from heaven. In fact they have to work hard at discerning Bible truths, as they themselves have indicated.  This whole communication idea just sounded off and out of sinc with everything else. And in any case, I do not understand why there is any relevance placed on when the first resurrection began. I am thinking, who cares? How does this affect anything else? Jehovah knows when he resurrects, why do we need to know?

It will be interesting to see if we are given a new understanding of the identity of the 24 elders. If they are no longer seen as the 144'000, then perhaps Rev 7:13-14 will remove the need to think that the anointed in heaven are communicating with those still on earth.

20 hours ago, JW Insider said:

So that's the background to this particular conjecture -- and that's all it is, conjecture.

Thankfully our reasoning on many matters such as the ones you mention has become so much more reasonable. But I agree, it definitely looks like there might be some change in the pipeline and this WT study might be a kind of " trial balloon" .

20 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Think of congregation elders, circuit overseers, Branch Committee members, and the members of the Governing Body. Our brothers and sisters in the first century had high regard for those appointed to take the lead, and we feel similarly today. We do not idolize well-known representatives of the Christian congregation or react in their presence as if angels were standing nearby.

I am not sure I think this has some kind of significance. I understand this to mean simply that we shouldn't idolize them as if they were angels, because they are not.

[JW Insider]

47 minutes ago, Anna said:

I am not sure I think this has some kind of significance. I understand this to mean simply that we shouldn't idolize them as if they were angels, because they are not.

Yep. I'm not sure it does either. And this particular idea is much ado about nothing. But I read it again, and it still strikes me as unnecessarily specific, and therefore I think a good editor would read it and do a double-take to see if he or she missed something in the context. Also, there is a difference in being treated as if one is some kind of angel and counseling against thinking there might be an angel standing nearby. It made me think I had missed a Broadcast or Convention talk where this particular idea had been stated, even if it was intended as some kind of light-hearted or self-deprecating exaggeration. (It's easy to imagine any of the Governing Body giving a talk and getting a bit of a laugh out of relating the uncomfortable experience of someone who hesitated to come up to them because they were looking all around and wondering whether they should take their sandals off, first.)

On the other hand, we do believe that angels often take an interest in the Kingdom preaching work, and not too long ago, we would not have been surprised if we heard an experience where it is strongly implied that an angel must have run some kind of interference to produce a certain outcome. And, of course, in some sense also do think of the Governing Body as messengers (angels) as in the expression: "To the angel of the congregation in Laodicea write. . . " (Rev 3:14). 

But what tied it in to the discussion, for me, came right out of the idea that you just repeated in your post:

47 minutes ago, Anna said:

This whole idea made it sound like the GB were getting some kind of visions, or ideas put in their heads

As you probably remember, the 1935 doctrine, was received through "flashes of light in God's holy temple." Rutherford used this phrase about it, and it was used several times since. But what was even more interesting is that from the period after 1918 and for many years, Rutherford denied that such a flash of light could have come from the holy spirit.

47 minutes ago, Anna said:

This did not sound right at all since the only helper Jesus said his father would give us was the holy spirit.

He denied the holy spirit's effect on revealing doctrine because he said that the holy spirit had already been taken away now that Jesus had returned to the Temple in 1918. The near "presence" of Jesus or angels was actually the exact explanation used for many years to explain why Rutherford could receive new doctrinal truths, and the more "modest" way of saying this was to call it "flashes of light."

*** Preservation [J.F.Rutherford 1932], p.193-194. ***

"By his spirit, the holy spirit, Jehovah God guides or leads his people up to a certain point of time, and thus he did until the time when "the comforter" was taken away, which would necessarily occur when Jesus, the Head of his organization, came to the temple and gathered unto himself those whom he found faithful when he, as the great Judge, began his judgment, in 1918."

[Anna]

9 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

The near "presence" of Jesus or angels was actually the exact explanation used for many years to explain why Rutherford could receive new doctrinal truths, and the more "modest" way of saying this was to call it "flashes of light."

Hmmmm....perhaps this is why the older generation views the GB/Slave as having some special direct communication with God, tantamount to inspiration. My Mother in law said as much. I didn't want to argue with her, after all, she is 86. There just isn't any point. And this is why perhaps in recent years, especially very recently via the WT articles we have been discussing, the GB are trying to correct that concept....

P.S. To be honest, I too held this view similar to my mother in law 20 years or so ago.

[Melinda Mills]

"It will be interesting to see if we are given a new understanding of the identity of the 24 elders. If they are no longer seen as the 144'000, then perhaps Rev 7:13-14 will remove the need to think that the anointed in heaven are communicating with those still on earth. "  Great point, Anna

Very interesting discussion so far, JWI. I appreciate the time and research you put into bringing these points to our attention.

 However, I am not usually bothered by these things. These are the points that I read and I sometimes forget them, because if something does not add up or is not convincing enough I know no one will or can force me to believe it. So it just does not stick.  God is in charge and he will use the holy spirit to teach us what is necessary.

Agape to you all.

 

[Anna]

3 hours ago, Melinda Mills said:

because if something does not add up or is not convincing enough I know no one will or can force me to believe it. So it just does not stick.  God is in charge and he will use the holy spirit to teach us what is necessary.

My thoughts too

[Witness]

On 1/1/2017 at 10:15 PM, JW Insider said:

For the first time in 20 years, the Watchtower has mentioned the "24 elders" and never specifically said in the article that they represent the 144,000

it-2 pp. 548-551  “The apostle John had a vision of Jehovah’s throne in heaven, surrounded by 24 lesser thrones upon which were seated 24 elders dressed in white outer garments and having golden crowns upon their heads. (Re 4:1-4) As the vision continued, John saw the 24 elders not only repeatedly falling down in worship before Jehovah’s throne but also taking part in the various features of the vision as it progressed. (Re 4:9-11; 5:4-14; 7:9-17; 14:3;19:4) Especially were they observed joining in the Kingdom proclamation to the effect that Jehovah had taken up his great power and had begun to rule as king.—Re 11:15-18.

In ancient Israel, “older men [elders] of Israel” represented and spoke for the entire nation. (Ex 3:16; 19:7) In the same way “elders” may stand for, or represent, the entire congregation of spiritual Israel. Therefore, the 24 elders seated on thrones about God might well represent the entire body of anointed Christians who, proving faithful till death, receive the promised reward of a heavenly resurrection and thrones near that of Jehovah. (Re 3:21) The number 24 is also significant, for this was the number of the divisions into which King David organized the priests to serve at Jerusalem’s temple. The anointed Christians are to be “a royal priesthood.”—1Pe 2:9; 1Ch 24:1-19; Lu 1:5-23, 57-66; Re 20:6; see OVERSEER.”

Isn’t the IT book one that will no longer be available? 

By the Watchtower’s recent obscurity over the identity of the 24 elders, it is another display of the “trampling” of God’s Temple priests. Dan 11:31; 8:10,13; Matt 24:15; 2 Cor 11:20; Isa 5:13;Jer 5:26; Luke 21:24; Rev 13:10; 12:17,11

The 24 elders, the 144,000, along with the Lamb are symbolic details of God’s administration that brings salvation to mankind.  Heb 12:22-24,28,29; Eph 2:6,7

If the Wt teaches truth, why would such a hazy generalization be made of the “24 elders” today, and contrary to the IT book’s words?

Shouldn’t the GB, anointed ones, understand the importance of this?  Shouldn’t they realize that the completed Temple in Christ is vital for the Kingdom to commence?  2 Cor 11:13

Or does the powerful “mountainlike organization” which relies on strength in men, carry its own agenda, that of oppressing God’s Chosen ones?

“Then he replied to me, “This is this message from the Lord to Zerubbabel: ‘Not by valor nor by strength, but only by my Spirit,’ says the Lord of the Heavenly Armies.  ‘Who are you, great mountain? You will become a plain in Zerubbabel’s presence, and he will position the capstone, exulting over it, “How beautiful! How beautiful!”’”  Zech 4:6,7  (Matt 16:18; 1 Pet 2:5)

God’s blessed administration, the true Mt Zion:

Isa Chapters 60, 61

 

 

 

[Witness]

Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.  And they sang a new song, saying:

“You are worthy to take the scroll,
And to open its seals;
For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood
Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
¹⁰ And have made us kings and priests to our God;
And we shall reign on the earth.”  Rev 5:8-10

On 1/1/2017 at 10:15 PM, JW Insider said:

Think of congregation elders, circuit overseers, Branch Committee members, and the members of the Governing Body.

So, what’s going on?  The Watchtower is blurring the identity of God’s chosen “kings and priests” with all “elders”.

 

Wt 16/1 pp. 20-26, par 6 – “So anointed ones do not think that they are better than others. They know that Jehovah does not necessarily give anointed ones more holy spirit than he gives his other servants. And they do not feel that they can understand Bible truths more deeply than anyone else.”

Soon, the anointed ones will be faceless.

Dan 8:23-25 –But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you. “In the latter part of their reign, when rebels have become completely wicked, a fierce-looking king, a master of intrigue, will arise.  He will become very strong, but not by his own power. He will cause astounding devastation and will succeed in whatever he does. He will destroy those who are mighty, the holy people.  He will cause deceit to prosper, and he will consider himself superior. When they feel secure, he will destroy many and take his stand against the Prince of princes. Yet he will be destroyed, but not by human power.

Dan 12:7 - "The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, lifted his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and I heard him swear by him who lives forever, saying, "It will be for a time, times and half a time. When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed."

 “…they do not feel that they can understand Bible truths more deeply than anyone else”...excluding the Governing Body.  

"You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you."  John 15:16

"But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light" 1 Pet 2:9

"I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;  that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you."  John 14:16,17

 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you." John 14:26

"When Do the Anointed Become Kings?"   http://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2016/06/when-do-anointed-become-kings_17.html

 

 

 

 

 

[Anna]

10 minutes ago, Witness said:

“…they do not feel that they can understand Bible truths more deeply than anyone else”...excluding the Governing Body.  

What makes you think that?

[Witness]

23 hours ago, Anna said:

What makes you think that?

Firstly, sorry for meshing John 14:26 with Dan 8:23-25   The option to edit seems to disappears once a post has been around awhile. 

The Watchtower consistently presents both truth and lies to the sheep, then reinforces the lie.

Compare:

From the Watchtower 02/8/1 pp. 9-14

“Who make up this royal priesthood today? The apostle Peter answers that question in his first inspired letter. To anointed members of the body of Christ, Peter wrote: “You are ‘a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession, that you should declare abroad the excellencies’ of the one that called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.” (1 Peter 2:9) From these words it is clear that, as a group, the anointed footstep followers of Jesus make up this “royal priesthood,” which Peter also called “a holy nation.” THEY constitute the channel that Jehovah uses to provide his people with instruction and spiritual direction.—Matthew 24:45-47.

Are those words put in practice? 

“ Jesus has appointed the ‘faithful slave’ to be the only channel for dispensing spiritual food.” w16 November pp. 14-18 

So which is it?  All or just a few who are the channel Jesus uses?  Obviously, it is believed to be the latter.

Many, many anointed ones have written letters to the GB expressing their understanding of scripture.  The GB trash these letters, refusing to recognize “the channel that Jehovah uses to provide his people with instruction and spiritual direction”  At the consent of the GB, many are disfellowshipped by the Body of Elders for disagreeing with the GB’s direction. Rev 13:15

The only way to receive spiritual food from Christ is through Holy Spirit, as part of the vine.

John 15:4,5 - "Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing."

Wouldn’t this necessitate receiving more Holy Spirit to understand Christ’s direction?  Can you imagine that if the Body of Christ was working together, complete in Christ as a finished Temple, how blessed all God’s people would be with understanding? Rev 22:1-3

This will occur, when the Kingdom arrives.  For now, many do have spiritual understanding, but not under a hard-hearted leadership that refuses to recognize the necessity of God’s Temple. Rev 3:20; Mark 11:24; Rev 11:2; Luke 21:24; Isa 1:12  In the organization, since there is no unity within the Body of Christ, and the GB refuses to acknowledge their own brothers in Christ as part of the true vine, the GB will continue to err, out of the hardness of their heart.  Acts 7:51; Jer 7:23-26  Without Christ, without Holy Spirit directing them, they can do nothing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Anna]

1 hour ago, Witness said:

In the organization, since there is no unity within the Body of Christ, and the GB refuses to acknowledge their own brothers in Christ as part of the true vine, the GB will continue to err, out of the hardness of their heart.  Acts 7:51; Jer 7:23-26 Without Christ, without Holy Spirit directing them, they can do nothing.

Are you one of the anointed that has this "problem"? I have known a few anointed ones in my life and they were all very humble men and women. I do not know whether they ever wrote letters to headquarters with their understanding of scriptures, I never asked them. But I always thought that would be a little impractical, with all the anointed from all over the world writing to headquarters with their little bits of pieces of "knowledge". I just somehow could never see this happening. And then when the WT of July 2013 came out with the article "Feeding many through the hands of a few" it made perfect sense (at least to me) that not ALL the anointed would be taking part in feeding the "domestics".

par. 8 "Starting at Pentecost 33 C.E., the resurrected Christ used his apostles as the channel through which he fed the rest of his anointed disciples. (Read Acts 2:41, 42.) That channel was clearly recognized by the Jews and proselytes who became spirit-anointed Christians that day. Unhesitatingly, they “continued devoting themselves to the teaching of the apostles.” According to one scholar, the Greek verb rendered “continued devoting themselves” can mean having “a steadfast and singleminded fidelity to a certain course of action.” The new believers had a deep hunger for spiritual  food, and they knew exactly where to get it. With unwavering loyalty, they looked to the apostles to explain the words and deeds of Jesus and to shed fresh light on the meaning of the scriptures pertaining to him. *—Acts 2:22-36. "

par. 11 "Did Jehovah bless the arrangement by means of which his Son fed the first-century congregations? Most definitely! How can we be sure? The book of Acts gives us this report: “Now as they [the apostle Paul and his traveling companions] traveled on through the cities they would deliver to those there for observance the decrees that had been decided upon by the apostles and older men who were in Jerusalem. Therefore, indeed, the congregations continued to be made  firm in the faith and to increase in number from day to day.” (Acts 16:4, 5).........."

par. 12 ".............. “Through the hands of the apostles many signs and portents continued to occur among the people,” states Acts 5:12. * .............."

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/w20130715/jesus-feeds-many/

P.S. This doesn't mean of course that the other anointed are somehow limited in their understanding of scripture....they are merely not the ones dispensing it.

[Witness]

19 hours ago, Anna said:

Are you one of the anointed that has this "problem"?

There is a genuine humility expressed through the desire to serve the Father with one’s heart, mind and soul; and there is a lowly fear from oppression by those who threaten any to stand up to the GB’s teachings.  Also, it is easy to hear and accept that remaining in the organization will bring “security”, and will bring one “peace of mind”. 1 Thess 5:1-3 Could that be interpreted as pride?  Certainly, even the most humble appearing person could harbor a prideful view by choosing a sense of security offered by a fortress built by men.  How does that challenge one’s faith?

The challenge to one’s faith is through a full submission to God and one’s Master, Jesus Christ; God, who is our only fortress. Ps 18:2 (Dan 11:38) Anointed ones who choose to remain in the organization are either fearful or prideful – both require a selfish disposition and displays one’s lack of love for Christ, who bought them “at a price”.

 ^“You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men.”  1 Cor 7:23

So, yes, I have a “problem” that my brothers and sisters in Christ have chosen what men say over scripture.  The GB has miserably failed to teach of the love among members of the Body of Christ. John 13:34,35 They easily disfellowship (“kill”) those who question their actions.  1 John 3:10,12; Rev 13:15 

Because of the continual wariness made concerning one’s anointing within Watchtower pages, many out of fear, no longer ‘partake’ at the Memorial.  This is oppression, Anna, by a “wicked slave” who beats his fellow slaves – not literally, but through emotional abuse and lies.  Matt 24:48-51

“Feeding many at the hands of a few”.  This is such catchy man-made phrase, and I expected it to be brought up.

When Jesus told his disciples to “feed my sheep, it was to the foundation of the Temple, and they were few in number.   When Pentacost happened, many more joined, in fact this “temple” building has been going on since the apostles.  Each priest is to “feed my sheep.” 

Eph 2:19-22 – “Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,  having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone,  in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord,  in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.”

All who comprise this Temple are a “dwelling place of God in the Spirit”.  All have the ability, whether they know it or not, to to provide his people with instruction and spiritual direction as the 2002 Wt brings out.  In ancient Israel, this is how God’s priesthood served the people, interceding on their behalf, as well as teaching.   Mal 2:7; Deut. 24:8; 33:10; 2 Chron 35:3; Neh 8:7

Since the early temple was a “copy and a shadow” of the heavenly, would their role to serve and teach be any different today with Christ as our High Priest?  Heb 8:5

 “Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually.  And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues.  Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?  But earnestly desire the best (greater) gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way.”  1 Cor 12:27-29

“And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ” Eph 4:11,12

All anointed ones are to provide spiritual food as they are blessed by Holy Spirit through their entire oneness in Christ.  Among the Body, the anointing alone gives knowledge, yet even more so when the Body is a whole.

“But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.” 1 John 2:20

So, why are so many anointed ones becoming squeamish within the organization?  And why are there those who speak up to defend their God in the face of an elder body, like myself?  If God’s spirit is within each anointed heart, those who choose to listen to the Helper, will realize ‘the truth’. John 14:26 Either they act upon it, or choose to remain hidden.

“But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.” 1 John 2:27

John also speaks of those who will deceive anointed ones, a deception that can destroy this relationship with Christ and the Father  –

“Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.” 1 John 2:

 ^“These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you.” 1 John 2:26

Obviously, within the organization, it is quite impossible for the Body of Christ to come together.  Truly, they are scattered among ‘nations’. 

 Thus says the Lord God: “When I have gathered the house of Israel from the peoples among whom they are scattered, and am hallowed in them in the sight of the Gentiles, then they will dwell in their own land which I gave to My servant Jacob.”  Ezek 28:25

Why, then, is there a Watchtower organization where anointed ones reside?

“And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie” 2 Thess 2:11 “The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders”  2 Thess 2:9

As 1 John 2:26 said, there would be those who will deceive the anointed ones.

Christ’s Temple priests are supplanted by an elder body that has “set itself up” within God’s Temple, trampling them into submission.  Dan 8:11; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Ezek 44:6,8; 2 Chron 13:9; Mark 13:14; 1 Cor 3:16

It is an “operation of error” coming through a “false prophet”, a fallen star (anointed one) - and  based on lies and delusion.  Rev 13:11,15; 19:20; 8:10,11; 9:1-3,10; 12:15; 16:13,14; 1 Tim 4:1; Gen 3:15

Anointed ones are to speak as one in truth - in Christ.  Truth is pure, and based on scripture, not based on man’s desire of dominance.  John 13:14-17

“We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.”  2 Cor 10:5

"Operation of Error"

 

http://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2014/06/operation-of-error.html