Spiritual Hierarchy Within The Jehovah's Witnesses

[Anna]

11 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Maybe R.L. went down in flaming fire

Wait a minute....who is R.L.... ?

[TrueTomHarley]

16 hours ago, Anna said:

16 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

intrigues me is just so much mental cabbage

Now you've piqued my curiosity

It is never on anything doctrinal or about timing of the end. When it comes, it comes. The present explanation I am always ready to acknowledge as the present explanation. Sometimes it stands the test of time. Sometimes it doesn't. It all will come out in the wash. I don't care too much. It is enough that Christianity offers a rewarding way to live.

The things that strike me are my own scriptural  'gems' that I can put to good use in working on my personality. Or in reflecting upon how God has dealt with me. Or how he hopefully will. Or how Hebrews 4:12 is seen to divide soul and spirit in so many ways. Or - well, you get the idea. 

Many Witnesses do this. Though, there are many who simply give 'the answer' from the paragraph. That's fine and an important part of picking up 'the pattern' the truth. In time, people find depth in many verses, even if they have not been formally commented upon, and they zoom in there.

But it is never doctrine that gets me going. The essential doctrines of Jehovah's Witnesses have been in place for over 100 years and the things that come up today for at-times intense examination are essentially but footnotes.

[Noble Berean]

18 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Says who? Only he himself. People on this forum would waste no time concluding he was just covering his rear end - he had no idea what he was doing, so he kicked the can down the road 40 years. Maybe he was some sort of swami or something to do the cloud and fire trick, but after 40 years, it would get old with everyone here.

His leadership could easily have been disputed, even during the plagues. He was just in the right place at the right time, that's all. It would have happened in any case because  'all of Jehovah's people are holy.' Once he crossed the Red Sea, there were 40 years in which to get fed up with him. In fact, they got fed up with him within the month, cloud or no cloud. That is the lesson we ought to take away, I think, and see if we can avoid doing the same. 

At any rate, where else will you go? Srecko may be starting up something. hehehe :)))))))) But unless you want to join him, you may do best to get your head around the present routine to the extent you can. Where you can't, then don't. You don't have to, unless you enjoy privileges, in which case there are some things in which have to adhere more closely - the same as you would if you were the representative of any outfit.

People apply their full powers of critical thought to the present. But if they did it to the scriptural record, nothing would stand up. In fact there are people who do that and they have concluded that every other paragraph was written by someone new.

I don't even think you really believe what you're saying.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

This all reminds me of someone out front on a theatrical stage,  in front of closed curtains facing the audience,  ... nervously, and  desperately reading from a script, while directly behind the curtain, a cherubic faced man in an expensive tailored suit stands following the script on a music stand, but both hands are on a rifle with  bayonet affixed.

[TrueTomHarley]

2 hours ago, Noble Berean said:

I don't even think you really believe what you're saying.

Alright. YOU account for them wanting to return to Egypt, where they'd experienced nothing but misery,  just a month after crossing the Red sea - and being ready to stone whoever would stand in their way!

Give me an explanation for THAT! Let me see if I think you actually believe what you are saying.

I don't back down a word. If people want to bitch, they will bitch.

[Noble Berean]

12 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Alright. YOU account for them wanting to return to Egypt, where they'd experienced nothing but misery,  just a month after crossing the Red sea - and being ready to stone whoever would stand in their way!

Give me an explanation for THAT! Let me see if I think you actually believe what you are saying.

I don't back down a word. If people want to bitch, they will bitch.

I don't think we are in disagreement that the murmuring and revolting of the Hebrews was ridiculous. But you seem to indicate in your post that the murmuring could have been the result of God's wonders being questioned as valid. That's preposterous. The Hebrews had unquestionable, miraculous evidence that supported Moses' divine backing. To compare their murmuring to questioning today is a stretch, because it's not nearly as black-and-white. 

[TrueTomHarley]

6 hours ago, Noble Berean said:

I don't think we are in disagreement that the murmuring and revolting of the Hebrews was ridiculous

Many times during the 40 year period of wandering, the Jews then were called a stiff-necked and rebellious people. What were they stiff-necked and rebellious about in your opinion? Do you think there is anyone who corresponds to them today? If so, who? If not, why not? What lessons has everyone learned?

[TrueTomHarley]

14 hours ago, Noble Berean said:

The Hebrews had unquestionable, miraculous evidence that supported Moses' divine backing.

I will not blow off as nothing the theocratic accomplishments I see playing out today. Perhaps I should wait for oceans to part so GB members can walk to wherever they are going, but I will settle for what I see now.

It is not nothing that a people are gathered internationally who are entirely undivided by nationalism, by racism, by social or educational class. It happens nowhere else on any scale. I will not take it for granted and not give credit where it is due.

I will not blow off as nothing that there is one and only one organization that will put a modern Bible without charge into the hands of whoever desires it anywhere. They have to completely circumvent the world's profit-driven distribution channel to do it, inventing their own channel. And in 900 languages, no less. Given time, the Bible translation will approach that figure - you know it will. It is already massive. 

The smooth functioning and meshing of diverse peoples to attain a common and undiluted spiritual goal - there has been no greater worldwide example of 'you received free, so give free.' It doesn't just happen. Somehow God has enabled humans to accomplish it.

Human things are not perfect? Timing has been off? That should be a shocker? Jesus said: "Keep on the watch, but don't overdo it?" I don't think so.

There is fierce opposition today? As though, with a capable leadership, Jesus words would be wrong and the world would love Christians? As though the worse 'wicked thing they would lyingly say' about Jesus' followers is "They woke me up Saturday morning when I was sleeping?" No.

IF Srecko hehehe :))))))) headed up something with anything to show for itself, minus the missteps, I would investigate it closely. The same with our house annointed person. But there is nothing but crying, muttering and bellyaching from all of them - at least they have pointed to nothing of significance. All they can do is cry that the doers are doing it wrong. Until humans are perfect, who can't do that?

Regarding authorization by miracles, Paul said such gifts would pass away. What if he had said it on this forum? What responses would he get? "Well - okay, BE that way if you are going to be. But don't expect anything from us! We're not budging unless we see plenty of razzle-dazzle!"

What we do see ought to be enough.

[Noble Berean]

On 12/10/2017 at 6:51 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

I will not blow off as nothing the theocratic accomplishments I see playing out today. Perhaps I should wait for oceans to part so GB members can walk to wherever they are going, but I will settle for what I see now.

It is not nothing that a people are gathered internationally who are entirely undivided by nationalism, by racism, by social or educational class. It happens nowhere else on any scale. I will not take it for granted and not give credit where it is due.

I will not blow off as nothing that there is one and only one organization that will put a modern Bible without charge into the hands of whoever desires it anywhere. They have to completely circumvent the world's profit-driven distribution channel to do it, inventing their own channel. And in 900 languages, no less. Given time, the Bible translation will approach that figure - you know it will. It is already massive. 

The smooth functioning and meshing of diverse peoples to attain a common and undiluted spiritual goal - there has been no greater worldwide example of 'you received free, so give free.' It doesn't just happen. Somehow God has enabled humans to accomplish it.

Human things are not perfect? Timing has been off? That should be a shocker? Jesus said: "Keep on the watch, but don't overdo it?" I don't think so.

There is fierce opposition today? As though, with a capable leadership, Jesus words would be wrong and the world would love Christians? As though the worse 'wicked thing they would lyingly say' about Jesus' followers is "They woke me up Saturday morning when I was sleeping?" No.

IF Srecko hehehe :))))))) headed up something with anything to show for itself, minus the missteps, I would investigate it closely. The same with our house annointed person. But there is nothing but crying, muttering and bellyaching from all of them - at least they have pointed to nothing of significance. All they can do is cry that the doers are doing it wrong. Until humans are perfect, who can't do that?

Regarding authorization by miracles, Paul said such gifts would pass away. What if he had said it on this forum? What responses would he get? "Well - okay, BE that way if you are going to be. But don't expect anything from us! We're not budging unless we see plenty of razzle-dazzle!"

What we do see ought to be enough.

Sorry for the delay in response.

You're using the actions of millions to give evidence to the divine support of a small group of men. Do they deserve that credit? Couldn't it be easily argued that Jehovah God is blessing the entire group's actions? The worldwide preaching work, the racial unity, the technological advancement--is that all the product of the GB? In fact, the GB committees are made of many JW "helpers" that produce content--the GB puts a stamp of approval and may offer revisions or additional input. For human purposes, a centralized GB is advantageous, but from a spiritual perspective Jehovah God can impart his spirit to whoever he pleases (and he certainly does).

As I've said before a GB makes sense from a human perspective, but where is the scriptural basis for unquestioned authority? The type-antitype thinking has been thrown out the window in recent years, so why hasn't the FDS parable also been thrown out as non-prophetic? Are we not supposed to notice that a parable that remains prophetic deals with the GB/FDS?

Does the GB even believe it is the FDS? Think about it! Have they are come out and said it? They imply it, but they never state it outright. If the GB themselves can't say outright that they are FDS, then why should all JWs believe they are? And their public relations/legalese speak with governments and courts--doesn't it sound dishonest? When you hear the org say that JWs are never forced to refuse blood and that it would be presumptuous of the GB to claim to be sole representatives of God...these statements just don't ring true! Imagine saying these things at a KH or assembly! You would have a stern talking-to by the elders. Why can't the GB just be upfront with the media/governments/courts on the organization they lead? Is it because they are ashamed or feel they have something to hide?

If Jehovah God the Almighty is using the GB to achieve his purpose, why do they need to constantly rely on plausible deniability and general shadiness? When the GB is under fire, why they are so quick to remove accountability from themselves? Look at how they deal with the sex abuse. That's suddenly not on the elders or the org, but it's on the parents. The GB can't claim credit for all the good things and remove credit from all the bad! You can only pick one. That's a kind of self-preserving, shady attitude that I don't like. It's not Christian--it's businesslike.