Brother Rando Bows Out of Two Threads He Started

[AlanF]

Brother Rando locked his two threads after I thoroughly trashed his claims in them:

https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/topic/53086-does-science-disprove-the-bible-or-back-it-up/?page=2

 

Brother Rando made his usual inane replies and immediately locked the threads.

He seems to have objected most to my proof that, because he teaches things contrary to the Bible and to Governing Body teachings, he is an apostate according to Watch Tower standards.

AlanF

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

I have not been keeping up with the discussions you mentioned ... but I offer the observation to your comment:

15 hours ago, AlanF said:

He seems to have objected most to my proof that, because he teaches things contrary to the Bible and to Governing Body teachings, he is an apostate according to Watch Tower standards.

AlanF

As far as I know, the Governing Body has NEVER been right about any prognostications they promoted .... not once ... and besides a propensity to shoot themselves in both feet, with "Pillowgate", have become an embarrassment to all reasoning people, but even more than that .... Is "Brother Rando" an apostate ACCORDING TO JEHOVAH'S STANDARDS ?

... Historically, they are only occasionally and roughly coincidentally the same.

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

By the way ... What you have going on between you and BR, is what is known as a "Flame War" .... if fought figuratively "to the death", is a good thing for those who watch and take notes.

Sometimes it's best to surrender unconditionally.

Even Imperial Japan surrendered when hit with two atomic bombs .....

 

[AlanF]

31 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I have not been keeping up with the discussions you mentioned ... but I offer the observation to your comment:

As far as I know, the Governing Body has NEVER been right about any prognostications they promoted .... not once ... and besides a propensity to shoot themselves in both feet, with "Pillowgate", have become an embarrassment to all reasoning people, but even more than that .... Is "Brother Rando" an apostate ACCORDING TO JEHOVAH'S STANDARDS ?

... Historically, they are only occasionally and roughly coincidentally the same.

 

Correct, WTS leaders' predictions have always failed.

According to biblical usage, both in the NT and OT, an apostate is someone who has left God. According to the WTS, an apostate technically is a JW or former JW who teaches things contrary to what the GB teaches. So Brother Rando is an apostate according to JW standards.

These definitions bring up some interesting points. In everyday JW-speak, an apostate is anyone who teaches things directly in opposition to JW teachings, whether he was ever a JW or not. Are atheists apostates according to the Bible? I suppose one might argue that they've left God, but because they don't believe that God exists, it's a bit of a stretch. It's like arguing that a child who no longer believes in Santa Claus is an apostate with respect to Santa Claus.

As you've probably figured out, my ranting about Brother Rando is mostly to show the gross hypocrisy of many JWs.

AlanF

[AlanF]

39 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

By the way ... What you have going on between you and BR, is what is known as a "Flame War" .... if fought figuratively "to the death", is a good thing for those who watch and take notes.

Sometimes it's best to surrender unconditionally.

Even Imperial Japan surrendered when hit with two atomic bombs .....

 

This thread is specifically designed for JWs to watch and take notes. Brother Rando makes a big show of being righteous, and has obviously taken in some JWs on this board. But because he teaches things that contradict both the Bible and the Governing Body, he is an apostate by biblical and JW standards. That is gross hypocrisy. As you've probably figured out, such hypocrisy, especially along with gross self-righteousness, and especially accompanied by steadfast refusal to argue for one's claims, is a major hot-button for me.

Brother Rando has been reduced to the state of the iconic Black Knight in the movie Monty Python and the Holy Grail, but like that Black Knight, will not admit defeat. But he knows he has been defeated because he locked the two threads I mentioned.

AlanF

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Words are INCREDIBLY important ... most people do not see the distinction between apostasy, heresy,  blasphemy, and a considered opinion.

... like building a wooden kitchen cabinet using rocks and pieces of fencing.

[AlanF]

5 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Words are INCREDIBLY important ... most people do not see the distinction between apostasy, heresy,  blasphemy, and a considered opinion.

... like building a wooden kitchen cabinet using rocks and pieces of fencing.

Quite right. "Heresy" is what the WTS ought to use instead of "apostasy", but for several reasons it does not.

Use of "heresy" generally pegs one as a narrow-minded, bigoted religious fanatic. The WTS knows this. All it really means is believing or teaching things at odds with some religious authority. JWs are heretics according to the Catholic Church, and vice versa. So what?

Because "apostasy" has several meanings, including and especially "giving up on God", the WTS takes advantage of these and teaches that disagreeing with its teachings is the same as disagreeing with God. Hence someone who merely quits being a JW is often called an apostate by virtue of "leaving God". One hears such sentiments expressed by JWs all the time when they describe disfellowshipped ones.

These are examples of the WTS's talking out of both sides of its mouth at the same time.

By the way, an excellent discussion of these ideas can be found in the small book Dissent and Order in the Middle Ages: The Search for Legitimate Authority by Jeffrey Burton Russell.

AlanF

[AlanF]

In the original post above, I stated:

<< Brother Rando locked his two threads after I thoroughly trashed his claims in them:

https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/topic/53086-does-science-disprove-the-bible-or-back-it-up/?page=2

Brother Rando made his usual inane replies and immediately locked the threads.

He seems to have objected most to my proof that, because he teaches things contrary to the Bible and to Governing Body teachings, he is an apostate according to Watch Tower standards. >>

It turns out that Brother Rando is not only an apostate with respect to the Jehovah's Witesses organization, and separately with respect to the Bible, but is a gross liar.

He actually claimed that a 1914 publication called "The Bible Students Monthly" by C. T. Russell mentioned both the 120 years and the 2034 date that he claims are significant in Bible prophecy, but it mentions no such figures. Nor does any other Watch Tower publication. I pointed this out on page 2 of the thread he locked ( https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/forums/topic/42501-1914-problematic-not-at-all/?page=2 ?

<< Brother Rando: The Last Days must reach their full time allotted, which is 120 years.  1914 + 120 = 2034.

AlanF: Nowhere does "the faithful slave" teach that 120 years past 1914 is a significant date. Nowhere does it mention 2034 as a significant date. Brother Rando is running ahead of "the slave". That is independent thinking and apostasy. >>

Brother Rando later replied ( https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/topic/42501-1914-problematic-not-at-all/?page=3 ?

<< Allow me to expose you and embarrass you once more. You give me way too much credit in making the false claim that the Watchtower Society never mentioned 2034.  It was discussed in the early 1900's and printed in the early part of 1914. >>

A minor point: apparently Brother Rando is not able to read with understanding. He falsely states that I claimed that the Watchtower Society never mentioned 2034; rather, I said that "the faithful slave" never did. According to current JW teaching, "the faithful slave" only came into existence in 1919, and so C. T. Russell was not "that slave" in 1914. Brother Rando has no idea what he's talking about.

Then Brother Rando comments on the supposed contents of a 1914 issue of "The Bible Students Monthly", Vol. 6, No. 1 ( see pdf at https://wtarchive.wordpress.com/english/bible-students-monthly/ ?

<< In the first part of 1914, the Bible Students known as International Bible Students Association discussed the “time of trouble” on the printed page called The Bible Students Monthly. Early in 1914, an issue of The Bible Students Monthly was issued with the large bold heading “END OF WORLD IN 1914? Some have quoted the large headline of this tract as proof that Russell was expecting the “end of the world” in 1914. However, such neglect the subheading under the larger headline, which states: “NOT THE VIEW OF PASTOR RUSSELL NOR OF I.B.S.A.” >>

The above has nothing to do with Brother Rando's claim that this issue of "The Bible Students Monthly" says anything about 120 years or 2034.

Brother Rando then pretends to quote from the issue, but does not actually state that what he proceeds to 'quote' comes from it. Rather, he starts off with a misleading sentence fragment, and continues with his fake quotation:

<< International Bible Students Association: "Nevertheless, when viewed from God’s standpoint, we are still “shortly after” 1914. Although Russell himself did not think the time of trouble would be this long, he did allow that it could be. It is possible that the time allotted for this period is 120 years (1914+120=2034), but that these days will be “cut short” some time before they are allowed to reach their end. We do not put this forth as a “prophecy”, nor would we feel anything was wrong if 2034 came and went and nothing had happened as far the full binding of Satan and the destruction of his empire is concerned. All things are in God’s hands." >>

But the referenced issue of "The Bible Students Monthly" says nothing of the sort. So Brother Rando is lying about what this issue said. He knows he is lying because the picture he posted of the "Bible Students Monthly" issue he pretends to quote from is mostly unreadable.

The only information about this that I could find via Web search was a 2009 post in the JW section of the Topix forum ( http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-witness/T5MIRCHM6EMTH9CD3 ), where between them two posters, Luis and Gareth, post exactly what Brother Rando pretends to quote above. It's supposed to be from the now-defunct website AllExperts.com (read the Topix thread for details). The poster colin states that "a guy called 'brother Rando' " wrote the above false quotation, and refers to yet another now-defunct website. The poster Mosesjoel seems to take credit for the false quotation. At the end of the thread's first page, Gareth states: "One thin we should ALL remember here is that the opinions of Brother Rando are NOT the opinions of the WTS. I happen to know he teaches some rather speculative things at the very least." Various posters point out that Brother Rando claims to be "of the anointed" and that they feel he is a fake JW. Gareth also seems to think that the false quotation is from an old Watchtower magazine, but it is not -- is completely fake.

A more extensive Web search shows that most people who have read Brother Rando's comments on various forums think he is nuts. I agree.

Brother Rando obviously knows about his fakery going back at least to 2009, and seems to think that he has covered his tracks. He further tries to cover his tracks in his locked thread by posting a mostly unreadable picture of the "Bible Students Monthly" issue in question -- as if readers ought to take his word for what he pretends it said. But if a reader looks over the link I posted above to an archive of "The Bible Students Monthly" he will find the issue in question, and can see for himself that Brother Rando is flat-out lying about its contents.

So once again, for the record, Brother Rando has proved himself an apostate and a liar -- and a fake "anointed one".

As an afterthought, I have a vague memory of having read something about C. T. Russell that goes something like ". . . nor would we feel anything was wrong if 1914 came and went and nothing had happened . . ." But I have been unable to track down such a thought.

AlanF