Kingdom Illustrations - Fulfilled, Undergoing Fulfillment, Waiting to be Fulfilled

[xero]

I was comparing Mt. 13:40-43 and Mt. 25:31-41.

The latter is future, waiting to be fulfilled, so wouldn't the parallel events in the former likewise be waiting to be fulfilled?

^"Therefore, just as the weeds are collected and burned with fire, so it will be in the conclusion of the system of things. The Son of man will send his angels, and they will collect out from his Kingdom all things that cause stumbling and people who practice lawlessness, and they will pitch them into the fiery furnace. There is where their weeping and the gnashing of their teeth will be. At that time the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun in the Kingdom of their Father. Let the one who has ears listen. - Mt. 13:40-43

and

“When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne.  All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.  And he will put the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left. “Then the King will say to those on his right: ‘Come, you who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world.  For I became hungry and you gave me something to eat; I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink. I was a stranger and you received me hospitably; naked and you clothed me. I fell sick and you looked after me. I was in prison and you visited me.’ Then the righteous ones will answer him with the words: ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and receive you hospitably, or naked and clothe you?   When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’  In reply the King will say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’ “Then he will say to those on his left: ‘Go away from me, you who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels. - Mt. 25:31-41

[Anna]

Yes, it seems like it. Not sure what your point is though 😀

[xero]

15 minutes ago, Anna said:

Yes, it seems like it. Not sure what your point is though 😀

Just engaging in the same kind of thinking some of the CO's I've had private conversations with, when they were making points not yet made (yet).

I've had to be careful. I was reading the scriptures about asking, knocking, and seeking and persisting in this. The answers you may get may not be ripe for prime time (they could be wrong too). I try not to ask/knock/seek FOR other people (but here I'm doing it anyway by discussing this)

But...It could be then, that since the wheat and the weeds are still growing together one would hardly expect perfection anywhere. Anywhere.

[Evacuated]

9 hours ago, xero said:

Mt. 13:40-43

*** w13 7/15 p. 9 “Look! I Am With You All the Days” ***
WT article with the most recent discussion on this.

 

9 hours ago, xero said:

Mt. 25:31-41

*** Pure Worship: p. 238 Summary of Clarifications ***

Further detail in the AM 2020 talk "Will You Keep Standing Among the Righteous?"

[Evacuated]

6 hours ago, xero said:

one would hardly expect perfection anywhere. Anywhere.

If you mean amongst intelligent creation, only in the heavens.

[Arauna]

10 hours ago, xero said:

that time the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun in the Kingdom of their Father.

This is also in the future - the wheat (anointed) have not all been collected yet.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

19 hours ago, xero said:

The Son of man will send his angels, and they will collect out from his Kingdom all things that cause stumbling and people who practice lawlessness,

Firstly this says Jesus  WILL SEND HIS ANGELS. Secondly this refers to the Anointed ones (his kingdom)  that cause stumbling.   Luke 17 : 1&2  tells us about stumbling. 

In my opinion this could well refer to the removal of the GB and all other wicked anointed ones. To be replaced by True Anointed ones. ( I will make a separate comment soon about this point. )

19 hours ago, xero said:

“When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him,

Now this says all the angels with him.    So refers to a different time. 

 

19 hours ago, xero said:

All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another,

So this refers to the Earthly class. 

19 hours ago, xero said:

Then the righteous ones will answer him with the words: ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and receive you hospitably, or naked and clothe you?   When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’  In reply the King will say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.

So this obviously refers to members of the Earthly class that have helped members of the True anointed. 

Hence it IS important to know who the True Anointed ones really are, although of course we should help as many people as possible. 

Both scriptures were 'in the future' at the time of writing them of course. Because they were written for the 'time of the end' which is yet to happen.

However I don't quite know what you mean by parallel as they are two totally different events. 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

19 hours ago, xero said:

The Son of man will send his angels, and they will collect out from his Kingdom all things that cause stumbling and people who practice lawlessness, and they will pitch them into the fiery furnace.

John Butler was disfellowshipped and banned from this forum for making a statement which was totally inline with this scripture. 

This scripture says collect out from his Kingdom. Surely that means collect out from the Anointed ones, all things that cause stumbling. 

The stumbling does not come from the Earthly class, it comes from those taking the lead in the Organisation who say they are Anointed but prove false to that power.  

And the stumbling does not come from false religions, becasue the scripture says collect out from his Kingdom,  and false religion are no part of that kingdom. 

So, if you disagree wiith me, then tell me who you think will be collected out, and from where ? 

[xero]

4Jah - Right now we have people who profess to be anointed. None of us know whether anyone who makes such a profession is one or not. I rather suspect Paul would say to them:

“Do not go beyond the things that are written,” so that you may not be puffed up with pride,+ favoring one against the other. ⁷  For who makes you different from another? Indeed, what do you have that you did not receive?+ If, in fact, you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not receive it?⁸  Are you already satisfied? Are you already rich? Have you begun ruling as kings+ without us? I really wish that you had begun ruling as kings, so that we also might rule with you as kings.+  1 Cor. 4:6-8

Now since the heavens are Gods throne and the earth his footstool and all things on earth belong necessarily to Jesus Christ, I'd say through the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked ones, the whole of those who profess to Christianity are making professions of being the earthly part of his kingdom. This distinction has yet to be made perfectly clear as the wheat and the weeds are still growing together. "At THAT time will the righteous shine". Now this may be even more far removed from what everyone's thinking, but what it means to "shine" could mean 'reflecting like mirrors the glory of Jehovah" or it could mean this is what these appear to be in their resurrected and glorified state. I'm not dogmatic about this, but I do see that hard line dogmatism is usually about power over another's conscience.

All those who are really wearing invisible crowns (and are in recognition of their own degraded state) will not be spending their time pulling rank or worrying about others who may or may not have pulled rank as it were.

To go further, I see this in a similar jaundiced view as did Paul when he considered the chronic harping on circumcision in his time : 

 ⁴  But that matter came up because of the false brothers brought in quietly,+ who slipped in to spy on the freedom+ we enjoy in union with Christ Jesus, so that they might completely enslave us;+ ⁵  we did not yield in submission to them,+ no, not for a moment,* so that the truth of the good news might continue with you.⁶  But regarding those who seemed to be important+—whatever they were makes no difference to me, for God does not go by a man’s outward appearance—those highly regarded men imparted nothing new to me....

¹²  I wish the men who are trying to unsettle you would emasculate themselves.* - Ga. 5:12

To wit - He will cull all things which cause stumbling. It doesn't matter if what's causing stumbling is a person wearing an invisible crown or not. All who profess to be under this kingdom "whether in pretense or in truth" will be culled. A Christian should focus on THEMSELVES and THEIR responsibility and let God sort the rest. 

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

@xero you seem 'ruffled'.   I for one am not of the Anointed. 

I fully believe that the scriptures were and are written for the True Anointed ones. But I continue to see that JWs, maybe especially the GB and others in charge, including Elders, show jealousy toward the Anointed ones. 

Go careful because you deliberately didn't continue this scripture for fear of it applying to you. Matt 25 41 - 46

 “Then he will say to those on his left: ‘Go away from me, you who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels. ⁴²  For I became hungry, but you gave me nothing to eat; and I was thirsty, but you gave me nothing to drink. ⁴³  I was a stranger, but you did not receive me hospitably; naked, but you did not clothe me; sick and in prison, but you did not look after me.’ ⁴⁴  Then they too will answer with the words: ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison and did not minister to you?’ ⁴⁵  Then he will answer them, saying: ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of these least ones, you did not do it to me.’ ⁴⁶  These will depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life.”

 

[xero]

2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Firstly this says Jesus  WILL SEND HIS ANGELS. Secondly this refers to the Anointed ones (his kingdom)  that cause stumbling.   Luke 17 : 1&2  tells us about stumbling. 

In my opinion this could well refer to the removal of the GB and all other wicked anointed ones. To be replaced by True Anointed ones. ( I will make a separate comment soon about this point. )

Now this says all the angels with him.    So refers to a different time. 

 

So this refers to the Earthly class. 

So this obviously refers to members of the Earthly class that have helped members of the True anointed. 

Hence it IS important to know who the True Anointed ones really are, although of course we should help as many people as possible. 

Both scriptures were 'in the future' at the time of writing them of course. Because they were written for the 'time of the end' which is yet to happen.

However I don't quite know what you mean by parallel as they are two totally different events. 

Is it important? You don't see ANY of those who were accounted among the righteous as recognizing ANY as Christ's brothers in the account. They just behaved decently in accord w/their conscience. That's all. Moreover they had the attitude. "When did we EVER do anything right?". 

I've always been interested in comma placement theory, and though the context suggests (and what I've researched in lexicons) like the "truly I tell you today ,(COMMA) you will be w/me in paradise" it makes me think a person could interpret this as "To the extent you did it to these least ones,(COMMA) my brothers,(COMMA) you did it to me" as a welcoming into the family. "Welcome BROTHERS!"

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

8 hours ago, xero said:

I've always been interested in comma placement theory, and though the context suggests (and what I've researched in lexicons) like the "truly I tell you today ,(COMMA) you will be w/me in paradise" it makes me think a person could interpret this as "To the extent you did it to these least ones,(COMMA) my brothers,(COMMA) you did it to me" as a welcoming into the family. "Welcome BROTHERS!"

Yes, but then JWs have always misused scripture.