On Blood

[Guest]

"This cup means the new covenant by virtue of my blood, which is to be poured out in your behalf."

 

"Poured out."

 

Did Jesus withhold "a fraction"? To use for something else?

 

"Well, Jehovah, I'd like to be a whole offering, but I think I'll reserve a fraction to use for something else."

 

No way! Jesus was whole-souled in every way to Jehovah.

 

"No blood" does not equal "a fraction of blood." 

 

The issue isn't with fractions or white cells or water. It's with the source. Jehovah has the right to set boundaries.

 

"‘Do you not fear me?’ declares Jehovah, 

‘Should you not tremble before me?  

It is I who placed the sand as the boundary for the sea, 

A permanent regulation that it cannot pass over.  

Although its waves toss, they cannot prevail; 

Although they roar, they still cannot pass beyond it.  

But this people has a stubborn and rebellious heart; 

They have turned aside and gone their own way.""

 

Jehovah said that when the blood is poured out on the ground, it is no longer blood. If the components within, like water for instance, now become part of the water cycle and you drink it, fine. You are not sinning. But if you take blood out of a person and stick it through a water filter and then drink it, obviously you haven't "poured the blood out on the ground" and you are sinning against Jehovah.

 

It's not about "fractions." It's about obedience. Jehovah has the right to set boundaries as to what is right and wrong. It doesn't matter what the medical people can do. The medical people can also do abortions and give hormone treatments and other things, but that doesn't mean just because they CAN do something that the SHOULD do it.

 

When the governing body says, "blood fractions are a conscience matter," they are sinning against God and men in the same way as Jeroboam of old who led the people in apostate calf worship at Bethel.

 

Jeroboam said that it was okay to worship a calf as long as you call it "worshipping Jehovah". The governing body says it's okay to take blood as long as you do what the governing body says. Does Jehovah view their drinking the wine at the Memorial as showing respect for Jesus' blood when they are at the same time encouraging millions of people to disrespect blood by taking in the blood of humans?

 

Here is what the first century governing body said about blood:

 

"...write them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from what is strangled, and from blood..."

 

"For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you except these necessary things:  to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols, from blood, from what is strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you!”

 

"As for the believers from among the nations, we have sent them our decision in writing that they should keep away from what is sacrificed to idols as well as from blood, from what is strangled, and from sexual immorality.”

 

Yes, the Bible was written a long time ago. It's words are just as valid for today. Sexual immorality is still wrong. Taking blood is still wrong. The blood belongs to Jehovah. It needs to be given back to him in the way He chooses. We must worship Jehovah whole-souled. 

 

Repent and supplicate Jehovah for the sins of the organization, for great is his rage against his people, in the same way as his rage was great for the sins of Jeroboam the son of Nebat and his rage against Manasseh and against those who worshipped the golden calf. Jehovah is coming, and He will clean His people.

 

"“Should I not call them to account for these things?” declares Jehovah. 

“Should I not avenge myself on such a nation? 

Something appalling and horrible has occurred in the land: 

The prophets prophesy lies, 

And the priests dominate by their own authority.  

And my own people love it that way. 

But what will you do when the end comes?”

 

Jehovah's Name Will Be Sanctified. Praise Jah!

[Space Merchant]

I am pretty sure that information is a little bit skewed. Due to seeing the notions from both former and current members: Current Jehovah's Witness based the view of abstaining from blood from Acts15:20; 21:25, the argument coming from EXJWs is that this should NOT be practiced, and argue transfusions didn't exist at the time along with other notions, some even address it as a human sacrifice, but they forget blood within the human body exists and moving blood from one body to another reaps problems. The notion is also followed by none JWs, some people of specific backgrounds as is those skeptical about medicine.

The wine that symbolizes Christ's blood differs from the blood of common man. Christ was perfect and sinless, every other human birthed out of Eve are imperfect and were never born in the only beget manner like Jesus.

Fractions no longer becomes blood at a certain point. Mainly if you understand blood components, protein hemoglobin, etc. Fractions are derived from the four primary blood components—red cells, white cells, platelets, and plasma. Such procedures can also be used to treat patients who have acute anemia or massive blood loss.

Not quite, although medical affiliates can offer abortions and hormonal treatments, people if given the choice can refuse, even via a moral standpoint. even by means of force if the government is involved, one can refuse, likewise with COVID-19 vaccinations, which this is ironic one when people take issue with Christians refusing blood. Every person make a life and death medical decisions. This goes for those who accept or deny the use of blood, they understand risk and they know that no surgeon gives 100% guarantees. So people need to logically take action, even in a Biblical sense.

Blood fractions is a conscience matter, granted that hemoglobin subs can effectively render whole blood as something no more. Even with that in mind, some people will often use the blood transfusion argument, the use of whole blood, time and time again without the facts.

That being said, the blood contamination fiasco was enough to push some common folk to see other alternatives and not transfusions, for blood transfusion does have a dark side to it. even in my case, there are people, some of the non religious, in my culture who avoid it because of superstition issues.

[Guest]

"Conscience matter" is a phrase that comes from the same book as "alternative lifestyle." (Neither phrase is in the Bible.)

 

Jezebel lived an alternative lifestyle. Immorality was acceptable to her. She also viewed killing prophets as a conscience matter. It didn't bother her conscience.

 

Jeroboam viewed idolatry as an alternative lifestyle. It didn't bother his conscience to worship idols and call it worship of Jehovah. 

 

Both Jezebel and Jeroboam were those taking the lead in the nation at the time, and they encouraged others to follow their lead.

 

Jehovah made known how He felt about both of them.

 

In ancient Israel, at times the people said: "For success in war, we go to Jehovah. But for rain, we go to Baal."

 

Today the people say: "For success at Armageddon, we go to Jehovah. But for medical issues, we go to the prevalent philosophies of the world."

 

What did Elijah say? ""How long will you be limping between two different opinions? If Jehovah is the true God, follow him; but if Baʹal is, follow him!” But the people did not say a word in answer to him."

 

The governing body has lead the people in false worship. They clean the outside of the cup (PID), but the inside is full of lawlessness (anti-christ doctrines). The governing body is in bed with the medical soothsayers of the world and the legal soothsayers of the world. They are committing spiritual fornication in order to do what is pleasing to the masses. Rather than keep their integrity, they prostitute themselves to fit in with the practices of the nations and then say, "we did nothing wrong," just like the proverb: "This is the way of an adulterous woman: She eats, she wipes her mouth; Then she says, “I have done nothing wrong.”"

 

The governing body is like the Jezebel of Revelation chapter 2:

 

"‘Nevertheless, I do hold this against you, that you tolerate that woman Jezʹe·bel, who calls herself a prophetess, and she teaches and misleads my slaves to commit sexual immorality and to eat things sacrificed to idols.  And I gave her time to repent, but she is not willing to repent of her sexual immorality.  Look! I am about to throw her into a sickbed, and those committing adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of her deeds.  And I will kill her children with deadly plague, so that all the congregations will know that I am the one who searches the innermost thoughts and hearts, and I will give to you individually according to your deeds."

 

Jesus is coming to remove "her". The organization will be cleaned.

 

Here is what Jesus says: "However, I say to the rest of you who are in Thy·a·tiʹra, all those who do not follow this teaching, those who did not get to know the so-called “deep things of Satan”: I am not putting on you any other burden.  Just the same, hold fast to what you have until I come."

 

"Amen! Come, Lord Jesus!"

[Moise Racette]

3 hours ago, AnnaNana said:

When the governing body says, "blood fractions are a conscience matter," they are sinning against God and men in the same way as Jeroboam of old who led the people in apostate calf worship at Bethel.

Then the poster doesn't understand the science behind what is "whole" blood. The same dysfunction as @Pudgy and John Butler.

30 minutes ago, AnnaNana said:

The governing body has lead the people in false worship. They clean the outside of the cup (PID), but the inside is full of lawlessness (anti-christ doctrines). The governing body is in bed with the medical soothsayers of the world and the legal soothsayers of the world.

If this is this poster's opinion, then what's the excuse for the poster to be like Jezzabel and Anti-Christian?

[Space Merchant]

Actually no, Conscience matter is a matter of individuality.

 A Conscience is the sense or consciousness of the moral goodness or blameworthiness of one's own conduct, intentions, or character together with a feeling of obligation to do right or be good (the opposite, to do bad). Concerning matters, it equates to something that people must decide about according to what they believe is morally right - and that is the issue is a matter of (individual) conscience. It is also akin to Free Will and the ability to Critical (as well as rational) think, to objective analysis and evaluation of an issue in order to form a judgment.

It has nothing to do with an alternative lifestyle, nor is it isolated to that, unless you are a person of the world, but as Christians, we have a conscience to take/not take actions, to accept/decline something, etc. Apostle Paul is very vocal of this too.

Take this in example - An 8 year old little girl, perhaps living somewhere in the suburbs of the West coast, we'll call her, Sara. Sara is easily feel uncomfortable when watching her close friend speak disrespectfully to her mother, so much so, the close friend is saying she hates her mother for not buying her that Barbie Doll the other day, and spouting that she does not love her; crying ensues. Sara sees this, and knows that this is wrong — that is conscience. The child, Sarah, knows that it is NOT OK to talk that way to a parent, especially to the very person who gave birth to the child in question, and Sara feels the emotions within herself that are telling her it's not right.

So as you can see even at that age, the right vs wrong aspect can be seen.

Even in Bible times we have many, examples of Conscience matter, remember this passage - 2 Cor 6:14–7:1 along with the references - Do Not Take a Wife of the Daughters of Canaan. Some men actually gave into said conscience whereas others, knowing it is wrong, did not.

Let's put you in an example - If you were Sarah's mother and you see Sarah friend abusively yelling and disrespecting her mother, in the public eye of many in the store, you saying that you will not succumb to conscience matters to evaluate what you are witnessing?

Or perhaps you lived in the ancient days, your child's friends in the camp kept talking about the Daughters of Canaan, and suggest that there is no issue, and the Yahweh will not take issue if the goal for these men were to bring them into the faith of the people of Israel; forgetting the fact they're talking about paganist meanwhile those same women joke that they can easily sway a man of your camp, your son included, with attempting to trick them. I am sure your figurative son will see this isn't right and so will you.

They see nothing wrong, but your son sure does. The women however, see that it is no big deal.

Queen Jezebel was a Ba'al worshipper, alongside her husband who listens to her call. Although she herself had a conscience, she was not affiliated with Israel at all, if you forget she was down with paganism. Then there is Elijah, who was not only tasked by the God of Israel, but he himself had a conscience, realizing that paganism is bad, as is Ba'al worship and what the Queen was getting the people into. some people have morals, others do not, all beings are living, have a conscience and can make actions depending on the type of matter and or situation, as is in action. Same case with Jeroboam which does not really have to be explained on how that played out.

Medical philosophies... That isn't how it works, Anna. Those components are within the human body, specifically fluids, it has little to do with the world. Surely if you had a medical emergency of some kind, you'd seek the medical attention, one doctor could say via his analysis and his conscience  that you need to cut off both your legs to survive, another doctor elsewhere will do the same, but knows a better way to save your life and your legs from being amputated. That is one example, then you have those aging who suffer from things who need to take something to prolong themselves or fight off an ailments, in some cases, younger folks suffer in such regard too. The list goes on.

You really need to be careful with these notions for that if the bible was to be used in this regard, it will not be in your favor.
 
Seems to me you are adding things of your own opinions, so you might want to really do an evaluation on yourself, or where ever you get your information.

Lastly, you might want to re-read everything pertaining to Elijah vs Jezebel regarding one's conscience.
That being said, seems contradictory to even what is known and what is deemed false, can't be mixing these notions together to conjure things.

That being said, regarding the latter, a Conscience matter - you have a conscience, you can think and you have free will,

• You made the decision to open your device.
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In a sense, you just did what you are trying to refute against.

Everyone, be it good or bad, is subjected to this, today, in the past, and in Bible times, as long as the mind is there, and the ability to function.

But concerning blood, there are reasons as to why some seek alternatives and or try to avoid transfusions or use of whole blood. There is also a dark side. Unfortunately, EXJWs or anyone influenced by them, and their puppet masters in the Trinitarian space, will not speak of the truth to anyone. Should  someone speak the truth about blood, they are on attack mode.

 

[Guest]

“‘If any man of the house of Israel or any foreigner who is residing in your midst eats any sort of blood, I will certainly set my face against the one who is eating the blood, and I will cut him off from among his people.  For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I myself have given it on the altar for you to make atonement for yourselves, because it is the blood that makes atonement by means of the life in it.  That is why I have said to the Israelites: “None of you should eat blood, and no foreigner who is residing in your midst should eat blood.” 

 

Was eating a fraction of blood a conscience matter for the ancient Israelites? If they poured out MOST of the blood but held back A FRACTION of the blood and ate it, was that just a conscience matter in Jehovah's eyes?

 

“‘If one of the Israelites or some foreigner who is residing in your midst is hunting and catches a wild animal or a bird that may be eaten, he must pour its blood out and cover it with dust.  For the life of every sort of flesh is its blood, because the life is in it. Consequently, I said to the Israelites: “You must not eat the blood of any sort of flesh because the life of every sort of flesh is its blood. Anyone eating it will be cut off.”  If anyone, whether a native or a foreigner, eats an animal found dead or one torn by a wild animal, he must then wash his garments and bathe in water and be unclean until the evening; then he will be clean.  But if he does not wash them and does not bathe himself, he will answer for his error.’”

 

What you wear or what restaurant you go to or what music you listen to is a conscience matter. What car you buy or what person you hang out with is a conscience matter. Taking blood is not a conscience matter. 

 

Jehovah has not changed in His view of taking in blood. "Keep abstaining from blood" and "write them to abstain from blood" and "As for the believers from among the nations, we have sent them our decision in writing that they should keep away from blood.” There's nothing "conscience matter-y" about that.

 

I do not recommend eating birthday cake or opening Christmas presents, but those things are a conscience matter. I do not recommend voting or having a political party card, but those things are a conscience matter. The Bible does not say anything about those decisions; the Christian must, before God, decide whether or not those things would violate his conscience, much like eating meat sacrificed to idols in Paul's conversation to the congregations.

 

Blood is not a conscience matter. Abstaining from all blood is a clear command.

 

The governing body, in their efforts to appease the medical professionals of the nations, have obtained "professionals" of their own, namely, the HIS/HID/HLC. It's just like when Israel lusted after the gods of the nations and built similar altars in Israel to what the surrounding pagan nations had. It's sick, and it makes Jehovah sick. How does Jehovah feel about the matter?

 

"Only flesh with its life—its blood—you must not eat."

 

"If any man of the house of Israel or any foreigner who is residing in your midst eats any sort of blood, I will certainly set my face against the one who is eating the blood, and I will cut him off from among his people."

 

"Stop bringing in any more worthless grain offerings. 

Your incense is detestable to me. 

New moons, sabbaths, the calling of conventions —

I cannot put up with the use of magical power along with your solemn assembly.  

I have hated your new moons and your festivals. 

They have become a burden to me; 

I am tired of bearing them.  

And when you spread out your palms, 

I hide my eyes from you.  

Although you offer many prayers, 

I am not listening; 

Your hands are filled with blood.  

Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean; 

Remove your evil deeds from my sight; 

Stop doing bad."

 

Is it any surprise the current governing body says it's okay to take blood fractions? They are showing who they are part of:

 

"And I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the holy ones and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus."

 

Taking in blood is not for true Christians.

 

"For if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left,  but there is a certain fearful expectation of judgment and a burning indignation that is going to consume those in opposition.  Anyone who has disregarded the Law of Moses dies without compassion on the testimony of two or three.  How much greater punishment do you think a person will deserve who has trampled on the Son of God and who has regarded as of ordinary value the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and who has outraged the spirit of undeserved kindness with contempt?  For we know the One who said: “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again: “Jehovah will judge his people.”  It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God."

 

If the nations told you to do an act of worship to an idol, you would not do it, correct? Why not? "Because we must obey God rather than man." The men on the governing body are telling you it's a conscience matter to disobey God's clear command to abstain from blood. What is the response of a loyal witness of Jehovah?

 

"We must obey God as ruler rather than man."

 

Praise Jehovah.

[Space Merchant]

@AnnaNana Whole Blood and the latter (which can no longer become blood due to protein hemoglobin) are two different things. As of recent, you did what you alluded to being against, your conscience as an individual, a living soul, allowed you to take action.

As for the other notions, conscience matter allows a person to attest to what is good and avoid what is bad, mainly if they're morally upright compared to their immoral counterparts.

Recommend you look what Apostle Paul had said, as is the Christ in regards to that. The examples can be found in Scripture by almost anyone, hence the examples provided regarding Israel.

[Pudgy]

2 hours ago, Moise Racette said:

Then the poster doesn't understand the science behind what is "whole" blood. The same dysfunction as @Pudgy and John Butler. …..

I have the same dysfunction about not understanding the science behind what is “whole” blood as the Old Testament Jews.

I have the same dysfunction about not understanding the science behind what is “whole” blood as the New Testament 1st century Christians.

Jehovah’s Witnesses got it right the first time, then caved to keep from being sued.

Nowadays, it’s not about “abstain from blood”. …. but about not bleeding out money.

[Guest]

Amen.

"I am a friend of all who fear you 

And of those who keep your orders."

 

Today the current governing body teaches that obedience to Jehovah's clear command regarding blood is "dysfunction" and that spiritual adultery is a "conscience matter". Jehovah makes clear who is His Friend.

 

"Adulteresses, do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever, therefore, wants to be a friend of the world is making himself an enemy of God."

 

The Pharisees and scribes claimed to be close to God, but Jesus made clear that obedience to Jehovah is more important than just paying lip-service to Our Father:

 

"“What do you think? A man had two children. Going up to the first, he said, ‘Child, go work today in the vineyard.’  In answer this one said, ‘I will not,’ but afterward, he felt regret and went out.  Approaching the second, he said the same. This one replied, ‘I will, Sir,’ but did not go out.  Which of the two did the will of his father?” They said: “The first.” Jesus said to them: “Truly I say to you that the tax collectors and the prostitutes are going ahead of you into the Kingdom of God.  For John came to you in a way of righteousness, but you did not believe him. However, the tax collectors and the prostitutes believed him, and even when you saw this, you did not feel regret afterward so as to believe him."

 

Having a man-made label or title doesn't matter to Jehovah. Being labeled "governing body" or "tax collector" or "elder" or "publisher" or "anointed" or "other sheep" or "worldly" or "prostitute" or "priest" or "marked" or "king" or "Jehovah's Witness" doesn't make somebody beloved to Jehovah or hated or faithful or disobedient. He is not partial. It's our actions and our heart that matter to Jehovah. 

 

We must obey Jehovah rather than men when those decrees of men go against what is clearly stated in God's Word, even if those men are on the medical board or the Sanhedrin or on the governing body. 

 

Jesus is coming to set matters straight. Moses wasn't pleased when he came down from the mountain and the people were disobeying a clear command: "You should not make an image and bow down to it." Jesus isn't pleased about the people taking in blood. He will show how he feels soon enough. He's coming soon.

 

Jehovah's Word Always Comes True. Praise Jah!

[Moise Racette]

1 hour ago, Pudgy said:

I have the same dysfunction about not understanding the science behind what is “whole” blood as the Old Testament Jews.

I have the same dysfunction about not understanding the science behind what is “whole” blood as the New Testament 1st century Christians.

I'm glad to see you have no clue about the science behind new technology. 

Does this mean this poster is a vegetarian, and abstains from MEAT?

It's good this poster is on the same page of ignorance like that apostate. @AnnaNana

[Moise Racette]

11 minutes ago, AnnaNana said:

Having a man-made label or title doesn't matter to Jehovah. Being labeled "governing body" or "tax collector" or "elder" or "publisher" or "anointed" or "other sheep" or "worldly" or "prostitute" or "priest" or "marked" or "king" or "Jehovah's Witness" doesn't make somebody beloved to Jehovah or hated or faithful or disobedient. He is not partial. It's our actions and our heart that matter to Jehovah. 

So this obtuse ideology would suggest that this poster REBUKES the label of Jesus as the Messiah, and the apostles. Learn to think!!!

[Guest]

Jesus is the Messiah. He is also my friend, my king and my brother. He is a friend of all those who love Jehovah and obey Him.

 

Jehovah is the One who decides whether a label is appropriate.

 

Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar labeled Job a blasphemer, a liar, a thief, and unfaithful. Those labels didn't stick. Jehovah showed how He really felt about Job.

 

The majority of Jacob's sons labeled Joseph a dreaming usurper who wanted to dominate others. That label didn't stick. Jehovah showed how He really felt about Joseph.

 

Jezebel and Ahab and the elders of the city labeled Naboth a seditious blasphemer. As you know, that label didn't stick either. Jehovah showed how He really felt about Naboth.

 

Moise, you seem pretty confident labelling others. Jehovah will make clear who belongs to Him, who really are His witnesses.

 

I do not come in the name of the governing body or in the name of any man or woman. I am lowly and little and tired, but I come to you not in my own strength. I come with strength of holy spirit and in company with Christ and in God's sight. He is the One who qualifies us to speak. (Children can praise Him. He can make the stones cry out.) I am one of many witnesses of Jehovah. Jehovah is looking for lowly ones who are willing to worship Him in spirit and in truth. He is glorified in this. He loves his family. Let Jehovah's name be put on high. Jehovah loves the lowly ones.

 

"May Jehovah God be praised, Israel’s God, 

Who alone does wonderful things.  

May his glorious name be praised forever, 

And may his glory fill the whole earth.  

Amen and Amen."