INTREPID TRAVELLER

JTR III - You are surely having me on re: the WT Cover/Article ? Its wonderfully tongue in cheek ? 

Since the spirit makes contact with them... wouldn't that make them "inspired"?
 

Persecution and harassment of Religious groups is NOT confined exclusively to Jehovah's Witnesses.
http://www.forum18.org/archive.php?article_id=2275
Police fined four Baptists for leading Easter worship meetings in Temirtau and Taraz. Council of Churches Baptists speak of a "new wave" of raids. An Almaty court fined a Protestant church and banned all its activity for three months, and ordered a foreigner deported.
Police raided at least two Baptist meetings for worship on Easter Sunday, 16 April, in the central city of Temirtau and the southern city of Taraz. Officers issued four summary fines totalling about nine months' average wages with no court hearings. Such fines for meeting for worship are increasing, Baptists complained to Forum 18.

In a separate case, a court in the southern city of Almaty has banned a Protestant church from meeting for three months (from 13 April to 12 July). The court also fined it for holding a meeting for worship in a place other than its registered address. An Indian citizen associated with the church is appealing against a fine and deportation order (see below).

An official of Almaty's Religious Affairs Department, Karshyga Malik, told Forum 18 on 24 April that the administrative cases against the church and the Indian citizen were among 33 it had launched since the beginning of 2017. The cases were to punish those who meet without state permission, meet in places without state permission, distribute religious literature without state permission or talk to others of their faith without state permission.

"New wave" of raids on Baptists

Police raids on congregations of the Council of Churches Baptists are frequent. They choose to meet for worship without seeking state registration.
 
So to borrow the words of member David Mahlangu* on this post: """All this new developments in Russia makes me see that we are actually in a true religion, remember what Jesus said in John 17:16" they are no part of the world,just as i m no part of the world", that is why they hate us.  so brothers and sisters we have to remember that in one way or the other, all bible prophecies have to be fulfilled before Armagedon. John 15:20b says "if they have persecuted me,they will also persecute you".it is very painful but it has to happen. So brothers in Russia Jehovah is with you don't give up.""" --
There are other groups probably feeling exactly the same !
*SANIBONANI David Mahlangu - Ngithemba ukuthi uyaphila?

I also endured Detention in Military prison for 14 months Srecko - I don't regret the experience because I also learned a lot about myself and about others while in prison. 
But we found out later that brothers are allowed to take alternative service now ......"New Light" . 
This is an organization that enjoys having people being persecuted because it "markets" their goals ~ 

I also endured Detention in Military prison for 14 months Srecko - I don't regret the experience because I also learned a lot about myself and about others while in prison. 
But we found out later that brothers are allowed to take alternative service now ......"New Light" . 
This is an organization that enjoys having people being persecuted because it "markets" their goals ~ 

http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/getattachment/c2d1f1f5-a1f2-4241-82fb-978d072734bd/Report-of-Case-Study-No-29
Summary of the Royal Commission Report re: Jehovah's Witnesses ..........
""""We do not consider the Jehovah’s Witness organisation to be an organisation which responds adequately to child sexual abuse. We do not believe that children are adequately protected from the risk of sexual abuse for the following reasons:
The organisation relies on outdated policies and practices to respond to allegations of child sexual abuse. Also, those policies and practices are not subject to ongoing and continuous review. The policies and practices are, by and large, wholly inappropriate and unsuitable for application in cases of child sexual abuse. The organisation’s retention and continued application of policies such as the two-witness rule in cases of child sexual abuse shows a serious lack of understanding of the nature of child sexual abuse.
The organisation’s internal disciplinary system for addressing complaints of child sexual abuse is not child or survivor focused in that it is presided over by males and offers a survivor little or no choice about how their complaint is addressed.
The sanctions available within the organisation’s internal disciplinary system are weak and leave perpetrators of child sexual abuse at large in the organisation and the community.
In deciding the sanctions to impose and/or precautions to take in relation to a known or suspected perpetrator, the organisation has inadequate regard to the risk that that perpetrator might reoffend. This demonstrates a serious lack of understanding of the nature and impact of child sexual abuse.
The organisation’s general practice of not reporting serious instances of child sexual abuse to police or authorities – in particular, where the complainant is a child – demonstrates a serious failure by the organisation to provide for the safety and protection of children in the organisation and in the community.""""
Truly .....DECEPTIVE Children !

How about applying the Law of Reason and the Law of Love ..........?
" you have been badly hurt in body and mind .. you are angry and confused ....you no longer feel comfortable in being around people who did not defend you in your most desperate time of need and you loathe walking into the Hall ..with its vivid reminders of your abuse ...so you want to be out....that's ok ....we understand..   but we still love you and we are here for you......."
Contrasted by: " you have chosen to disfellowship Jehovah's Organization ....how dare you......take her out to the city gate and stone her "
You just don't understand LOVE at all some of you! Christ-like love! You have never comprehended the Lesson of the meeting with the woman at the well that Jesus had.

On the 10th of this month, the Australia Royal Commission held Case 54 which was a review of the responses of Jehovah’s Witnesses to the Commission’s findings.  The representatives from the Australia branch swore on the Bible “to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth”.  Did they comply with this solemn oath before God?  You be the judge after watching this video:
 

On the 10th of this month, the Australia Royal Commission held Case 54 which was a review of the responses of Jehovah’s Witnesses to the Commission’s findings.  The representatives from the Australia branch swore on the Bible “to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth”.  Did they comply with this solemn oath before God?  You be the judge after watching this video:
 

Is current International Law the most sovereign body of law *?
Are all the nations of the world in the Power of the Wicked one?
What validates one set of laws over another ?
Note that I am asking questions for simple non-contentious answers.
* If in a future point in time International Law validates something which violates current international law what then ?
Sometimes as Christians one may just have to suck up the "punishment" / "persecution" and rely on God/

The MOAB was a costly exercise about nothing .....Trump playing with his Dinky-Toys like a little kid,
It killed 30 + people and probably mobilized the minds of 1000's more pro-Islamists to take up their crazy cause.
God Reveals His Purpose by the Fulfillment of Prophecy.
Having had egg on their faces so many times in the past for trying to play prophet or predictors / preemptors of Bible events it would be good for such ones to Wait on Him.

The MOAB was a costly exercise about nothing .....Trump playing with his Dinky-Toys like a little kid,
It killed 30 + people and probably mobilized the minds of 1000's more pro-Islamists to take up their crazy cause.
God Reveals His Purpose by the Fulfillment of Prophecy.
Having had egg on their faces so many times in the past for trying to play prophet or predictors / preemptors of Bible events it would be good for such ones to Wait on Him.

Zech. 7:8-14, NWT: 
The word of Jehovah again came to Zech·a·riʹah, saying: 
“This is what Jehovah of armies says,
‘Judge with true justice
and deal with one another in loyal love and mercy.
Do not defraud the widow or the fatherless child,
the foreigner or the poor;
and do not scheme evil against one another in your hearts.’
But they kept refusing to pay attention, and they stubbornly turned their backs, and they stopped up their ears so as not to hear.
They made their heart like a diamond and would not obey the law and the words that Jehovah of armies sent by his spirit through the former prophets.
So there came great indignation from Jehovah of armies.”
“‘Just as they did not listen when I called, so I would not listen when they called,’ says Jehovah of armies.
‘And I scattered them with a storm wind throughout all the nations that they had not known, and the land was left desolate behind them, with no one passing through or returning; for they turned the desirable land into an object of horror.’”
Jer 51:6; Rev 18:4-8
 

We all can agree that child abuse IS wrong.  Jehovah NEVER would allow it.  What human would for that matter!
I think ( and I'm nobody)  the problem comes in when we 'report' these horrendous acts to the older men instead of the 'proper authorities'.  Molesting a child forces them to deal with adult feelings, situations and matters they are ill equipped to handle.
 Perhaps that's why the  baptism of babies and very young children should not take place, because it's a conscious decision that should be made by a consenting, mature person.  
No doubt we are all sickened by anyone who would dare to abuse a child! And then lie about it!! 
But the question I believe 'we' struggle with- those of 'us' who would keep quiet or not report to proper authorities - HOW MUCH OF THE BLAME BELONGS TO 'US'?
Read any article- peer reviewed journal- you'll see that children who experience abuse need more than prayer.   I'm not taking away its power- but do you really think silence will make the trauma go away?  And god forbid they all remain in the same congregation!  What are 'we' teaching the child about trust? 
And god forbid AGAIN- that this child grows up and is promiscuous and df'd or worse yet- reoffend.  (Maybe that should be flipped)
Who's to blame- Satan? 
Today- and I do say today- if it happened to my child, I'd pray not to go off, I'd call the police (while still praying) comfort and support my child and do all I can to get him/her the proper assistance. I'd let him/her know that Jehovah does NOT approve of it - no one does and it is wrong and I will do everything in my power to make sure that brother/sister pay for what they've done.  
Having said that- if it were NOT my child... well, when does the right thing to do become wrong?  
We are talking about crimes committed against children! 

How about applying the Law of Reason and the Law of Love ..........?
" you have been badly hurt in body and mind .. you are angry and confused ....you no longer feel comfortable in being around people who did not defend you in your most desperate time of need and you loathe walking into the Hall ..with its vivid reminders of your abuse ...so you want to be out....that's ok ....we understand..   but we still love you and we are here for you......."
Contrasted by: " you have chosen to disfellowship Jehovah's Organization ....how dare you......take her out to the city gate and stone her "
You just don't understand LOVE at all some of you! Christ-like love! You have never comprehended the Lesson of the meeting with the woman at the well that Jesus had.

The issue at the heart of Pedophilia within the WTBTS is about THE LACK OF RESPONSE on the part of the LEADERSHIP . Not about how many pedos's there are / were !
Its about the lack of action
Its about the lack of protection and help afforded the victims.
Pedos will abound and so too dsysfunctional families
What is the WTBTS going to do to remedy ITS policies on the matter ?
The links I posted are merely attempting to emphasize this - WTBTS has not done anything worthwhile to address the issue - that's the disgusting part about this ! Those links are not my sole possession - they are in the public domain. The ARC is not attempting to Publicize it world-wide. However the WTBTS WILL NOT make it Public now will they? Why not ?

Yeah ... I also caught those lies ...  I am particularly sensitive to such things .. because as a JW Newbie, over a half century ago ... I did the very same thing ... to my everlasting shame.
.

AbigailSenseful
The ARC Report IS NOT GENERALISATION ! ITS FACT - GET THAT INTO YOUR THICK SKULL !
"""Even if these allegations are true, who are you to sit in judgment as if you yourself is clean, perfect, and undefiled?""" Lawdy you are switched off !
The GB of the JW movement sits in judgement of its flock all the time - even to the point of Disfellowshipping victims of child abuse.
You have judge me - How do you know what my relationship with Jehovah is at this time? You don't ! So don't judge me.
And as to "looking for flaws" - SORRY - I have no need to Look! The reports are hitting us in the face these days - its all over the media - [ oh of course the Media is making this all up - Satan's hand in matters .........blah blah fishpaste ! ]
Ann - o - M ......the suffering caused to victims of child abuse is NOT A FUN TOPIC - I will use any form of activism to denounce the JW stance on this and any forum I can access to "put it out there"
You have only to hear the harrowing testimony of Octogenarian victims of the British Abuse Cases perpetrated against vulnerable children who we shipped off to Australia [currently underway in the UK] to realize the damage that this causes.
This forum is used by people who would rather we saw the JW dot Org as this squeaky clean ever so righteous organization that would never harm anyone - "spiritual paradise" WELL ITS NOT LIKE THAT AT ALL.
Now READ THE REPORT and then YOU will be able to judge it and not try to lecture me first !
 

There will be another hearing on March 20th 2017
http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/case-study/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney
 

For anyone who is interested in reading the final report from the Australian Royal Commission into institutional responses to child sexual abuse
http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/getattachment/c2d1f1f5-a1f2-4241-82fb-978d072734bd/Report-of-Case-Study-No-29
 

Actually, the ARC found that wasn't so - not one alleged abuser was reported to the authorities, even though some states required it. E.g. I remember the consternation on Br. Spinks' face (Service Department) when it was put to him that they hadn't complied with NSW law about reporting if one has knowledge or a belief that a crime had been committed.
The Fessler case brought it to light that the Org did not comply with PA law by reporting the abuse. Not only that, but even when Watchtower has been court-ordered to produce documentation, it has done everything it can to wiggle out of or obstruct the production of documents, like with the Campos cases.
So it's fair to say that the general practice in the Org has been NOT to report suspected abuse to the secular authorities.
Where did you get the 'two-thirds' statistic from, by the way?
This is exactly why trained professionals should handle all allegations, rather than untrained elders. Besides, when laypersons bumble in, trying to ascertain the truth of an allegation, they can (unintentionally) corrupt any evidence-gathering which, in turn, compromises the case, making it harder to successfully resolve.

Thank you. 
Filling in the ellipses:
"But it's a mistake to think that the failure of Penn State authorities to report the abuse is a rarity, child abuse educators, prosecutors and investigators said. Studies over the past two decades nationally have consistently shown that nearly two-thirds of professionals who are required to report all cases of suspected abuse fail to do so because they are uncertain of whether abuse occurred, are fearful of making false accusations, or are unsure of their obligation. "
The Spring Grove and Freeland Maryland elders were aware of a romantic and sexual relationship between the minor victim and the middle-aged abuser. A JC was formed and they reproved them both. There was no uncertainty that prevented the elders from reporting to the authorities. As for the Org's Legal Department, which is supposed to be consulted when instances of abuse come to light, its job is to be sure of the congregation's legal obligations.

Tom,
Our loyalty is to God and Christ – and Truth.  The organization is not God.  Isa 46:5; Exod 15:11; Mark 12:30  Can you not see that your words are exactly why most JWs will not know the outcome of the ARC sessions coming up, because of putting loyalty to the organization ahead of seeking truth?  

It is putting blinders on, Tom.  If one of your dear friends, or you and a loved one have to face the same situation, is this when you will take your blinders off, when it affects you?  Matt 15:14; Mark 12:31




You believe you’re telling the “good news”, yet lead people into an environment of secrecy, and  required obedience to men who do not have the best interests at heart of victims of abuse, and who hide abuse from the general congregation.  THIS is a spiritual paradise?
I know, the organization has 880 languages under its belt, and that you feel it is remarkable; and I agree it is remarkable, but we know it isn't an isolated outstanding feat in the history of mankind. Jesus and his apostles were pretty humble, but achieved greatness in the eyes of God. How many times in the scriptures have we seen God use the meagerness of men to accomplish his will?  (Lev 26:7,8; Judges 7:2-4; Zech 4:6)

“And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.  The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.   For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie  and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.” 2 Thess 2:8-12

“People worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast and asked, “Who is like the beast? Who can wage war against it?”  Rev 13:4

"Know that there is no other organization that has Jehovah's blessing and favor". W13/10/15
"There is no doubt that Jehovah's organization will be preserved and will prosper spiritually." W 08/11/15

Judgment comes upon the people you are speaking of – God’s anointed ones (spiritual Israel) and all who listen to them. 

“‘When any of the Israelites or any foreigner residing in Israel separate themselves from me and set up idols (organization) in their hearts and put a wicked stumbling block before their faces and then go to a prophet to inquire of me, I the Lord will answer them myself.  I will set my face against them and make them an example and a byword. I will remove them from my people. Then you will know that I am the Lord.

 “‘And if the prophet is enticed to utter a prophecy, I the Lord have enticed that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand against him and destroy him from among my people Israel.  They will bear their guilt—the prophet will be as guilty as the one who consults him.  Then the people of Israel will no longer stray from me, nor will they defile themselves anymore with all their sins. They will be my people, and I will be their God, declares the Sovereign Lord.’” Eze 14:7-11

Rev 18:4-8


 

The issue at the heart of Pedophilia within the WTBTS is about THE LACK OF RESPONSE on the part of the LEADERSHIP . Not about how many pedos's there are / were !
Its about the lack of action
Its about the lack of protection and help afforded the victims.
Pedos will abound and so too dsysfunctional families
What is the WTBTS going to do to remedy ITS policies on the matter ?
The links I posted are merely attempting to emphasize this - WTBTS has not done anything worthwhile to address the issue - that's the disgusting part about this ! Those links are not my sole possession - they are in the public domain. The ARC is not attempting to Publicize it world-wide. However the WTBTS WILL NOT make it Public now will they? Why not ?