Will the real verse of (Matthew 28:19) ever be revealed?

[Witness]

@Brother Rando, 

I do not doubt the information you and others have presented here concerning Matt 28:19.  In fact, I find it helpful and I appreciate what has been presented.   I am pointing out that there are errors within Watchtower doctrine and their own basis of baptizing.  While the trinity error has become well established over the centuries, within a brief 100 years, the baptism questions have radically changed to the necessity of identifying with an organization; and baptizing in the name of Jesus is not part of the Watchtower ritual.   You believe you are part of an organization that comes “in Jesus’ name”, but this is a lie.  There is only one “mark” we can bear – that of God and Christ, yet JWs must identify or be “marked” by the organization. Deut 11:18; Rev.13:11,16-18

 Not only is this made clear at baptism and your active support, but also by various Wt. words such as:

"Come to Jehovah's organization for salvation" - Watchtower 1981 Nov 15 p.212. 

Your personal witnessing work must be very different from that outlined by the organization if you feel you are “preaching Jesus”.  As you point out, all authority has been given to him, which means authority is not given to an earthly organization that requires your servitude.

“Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?”  Rom 6:16

We cannot slave for God and Jesus, as well as an organization.  You will love one, and hate the other.  Matt 6:24

 So, I ask, are you leading people to Christ when going to the door, or to an organization within Satan’s world?

“Then the devil, taking Him up on a high mountain, showed Him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. ⁶ And the devil said to Him, “All this authority I will give You, and their glory; for this has been delivered to me, and I give it to whomever I wish. ⁷ Therefore, if You will worship before me, all will be Yours.”

⁸ And Jesus answered and said to him, “Get behind Me, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.’ ”  Luke 4:5-8

The earthly systems in place today that build any organization – politics, stocks, investments, goods, labor – are the same systems that facilitate the operation called the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.  Can people get rich using these systems?  Yes, and the Watchtower has.  Do people “serve” in these various organizations?  Yes, in many ways; the only difference is the Watchtower uses free labor to serve its needs. James 5:1-6   Search Jesus’ teachings; do you see any case in the scriptures where Jesus said, ‘go ahead; step into Satan’s world and build God an organization.’ No!  John 18:36  God and Christ are building his Temple, the true “organization” that is Zion, with “living stones” – the anointed ones.  Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:5,9; Eph 2:20-22; Rev 3:12 

 He warned against the love of money and all earthly attachments, yet Warwick is touted as beautiful, as well as branch offices, assembly halls, etc.  Matt 6:24; 19-21; Matt 19:21 He said there was no physical location where we are to worship. John 4:21-24 Yet, the “mountain-like organization” defies Jesus' words.   His apostle told us to keep our eyes on the “things above” and not on things on the earth. Col 3:2; Rom 8:5-8 

We cannot serve God through or with an organization, since Jesus told Satan, “Him only you shall serve”. Isa 45:21,22; 46:5 Attaching God to Satan’s earthly belongings is blasphemy and idolatry. It is no different than the Catholic church building its iconic structures and teaching lies, such as the trinity. Rom 12:2; Phil 2:6 This is Satan’s realm, the Kingdom has yet to come after all deception, idolatry, and Satan’s systems are conquered by Christ. Satan’s last grand deception deceives the anointed ones.  That idolatrous deception is the Watchtower.   Rev 19:11,14; 13:2-4

Even the Watchtower, in one of its truthful moments concerning pure worship has said,

As Christians, we face up to similar challenges today. We cannot take part in any modern version of idolatry—be it worshipful gestures toward an image or symbol or the imputing of salvation to a person or an organization. Wt 90/11/1

Yet, in the same month and year, they expose their true intentions with this Kingdom Ministry 11/1990 p. 1, that targets baptized JWs:

 Directing Bible Students to Jehovah’s Organization 
Bible students need to get acquainted with the organization of the “one flock” Jesus spoke about at John 10:16. They must appreciate that identifying themselves with Jehovah’s organization is essential to their salvation. (Rev 7:9,10,15) Therefore, we should start directing our Bible students to the organization as soon as a Bible study is established.  Matt 12:37; John 9:41; Luke 12;1
 

Let’s turn 360 degrees for another Watchtower twist.  The new book you are studying, “Jesus-The Way, The Truth, the Life” says this:

“Jesus-The Way, the Truth, the Life will help you to appreciate how Jesus definitely is “the way.”  Only through him is it possible to approach Jehovah God in prayer.  Morever, Jesus is the way for us to be reconciled to God.  John 16:23, Romans 5:8  Hence, only through Jesus can we have an approved relationship with God.”

So tell me, which type of “preaching” do you think Jesus approves of, that which is centered around bringing people into an organization that has a shaky foundation of failed prophesies and changing doctrine -  and declares it as necessary for salvation; or one based on helping people understand Christ’s authority as the only Truth, and the only Way to obtain eternal life as you are passionate about. 

No one can “hinder” you from preaching the way you choose, but just know that there are two opposing camps of anointed ones preaching Jesus as the Way during the last days. These camps have developed through disfellowshipping those who believe Jesus truly is the only Way, Truth and Life, as the Watchtower study book clearly brings out.   They believe they are “slaves” to one Master, Christ – not to an “evil slave” and his elder army that spiritually “kills” his fellow servants for preaching in the name of Jesus. Matt 24:48-51; Rev 12:17; 13:15 They follow scripture implicitly, and are “inspired”. Matt 10:16,20; Luke 21:15; 12:12; John 17:18; 1 John 2:27 

On the other hand, the prominent group (GB and those “fed” their lies Rev 13:16,17) preaches “another Jesus”, admits to not being “inspired”, and expects servitude and obedience to men. 2 Cor 11:4;Rom 8:9; 1 Tim 4:1,2

When Jesus washed the disciple’s feet, what was he teaching them?  Was it to seek the prominent position and lord it over the other members of the anointed body?  Should anointed ones be in submission to elders who have not been anointed by God?  Should anyone be a “slave” to men?  John 13:12-17; 1 Pet 5:3,4 I hope you think about these things, because this is exactly what is happening to Christ’s brothers in the organization.   Matt 24:15; 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; 2 Cor 6:16

The truth is being revealed. 2 Thess 2:1-12; Rev 13:1,5-7,11,12,15-18 There is no more “roaming about” as Gerritt Losch remarked.  Those anointed who are “in Christ” are being blessed with abundant spiritual food.  Matt 24:27,28; Matt 22:8-10; James 1:5; Luke 11:13  Those that recognize who they are, also are blessed with eternal “riches”; not found in Satan’s systems.  Matt 6:21; 25:40; 13:20; 7:15-20

Should we be worried about the trinity, or the lies about Jesus preached in the organization?

“I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name,

“in his own name”/authority – the Governing Body, and "Watchtower organization”

him you will receive.  How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God?”  John 5:43,44

 

 

[BroRando]

That's not true.  You haven't changed from your forefathers who persecuted Jesus Christ have you?  Only Jesus baptizes with Holy Spirit and Fire or did you miss that scripture?  “I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.  Matt 8:11

You're trying to claim that the Watchtower Organization supersedes the 'baptism in Christ" which they don't.  "The truth is being revealed. 2 Thess 2:1-12; Rev 13:1,5-7,11,12,15-18 There is no more “roaming about” as Gerritt Losch remarked.  Those anointed who are “in Christ” are being blessed with abundant spiritual food.  Matt 24:27,28; Matt 22:8-10; James 1:5; Luke 11:13  Those that recognize who they are, also are blessed with eternal “riches”; not found in Satan’s systems.  Matt 6:21; 25:40; 13:20; 7:15-20"

"This undeserved kindness he caused to abound toward us in all wisdom and understanding  by making known to us the sacred secret of his will. It is according to his good pleasure that he himself purposed  for an administration at the full limit of the appointed times, to gather all things together in the Christ, the things in the heavens and the things on the earth. Yes, in him." (Ephesians 1:8-10) 

That gathering is coming to it's completion and the appointed time is concluding.  How can I convince someone without faith?  "Praised be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, for he has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in union with Christ," (Ephesians 1:3)  

If scripture doesn't convince you nothing will....  :-(
 

 

[Witness]

On 12/10/2017 at 5:45 PM, Brother Rando said:

You haven't changed from your forefathers who persecuted Jesus Christ have you?  Only Jesus baptizes with Holy Spirit and Fire or did you miss that scripture?  “I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.  Matt 8:11

I have already pointed out that this is referring to the anointing, the pouring out of Holy Spirit into the heart of an individual – and yes, it comes from Jesus. Matt 3:11; Acts 1:5, 2:3,4; John 16:7; 14:16,17

I am speaking of the spurious water baptism ritual by the Watchtower organization.  Water baptism holds symbolic meaning that should not include one’s dedication to an organization.  1 Pet 3:21  Those in the scriptures who baptized “in the name of Jesus” were apostles and part of the holy priesthood – the anointed Body of Christ.  Today, those not anointed by Holy Spirit and are not part of the holy priesthood (1 Pet 2:5,9),  baptize.  Interestingly, Jesus told his anointed ones, including those today, who are to perform this water baptism

“teaching them to observe everything I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”  Matt 18:20

This is another great transgression by the Watchtower having nothing to do with the trinity, yet it magnifies further the blasphemous baptism by the organization.  The anointed ones are invisible, unable to teach Jesus’ commands as his holy priesthood; unable to baptize others with water.   Mal 2:7; Matt 24:48-51

On 12/10/2017 at 5:45 PM, Brother Rando said:

"This undeserved kindness he caused to abound toward us in all wisdom and understanding  by making known to us the sacred secret of his will. It is according to his good pleasure that he himself purposed  for an administration at the full limit of the appointed times, to gather all things together in the Christ, the things in the heavens and the things on the earth. Yes, in him." (Ephesians 1:8-10) 

The “administration” that this is referring to is the Body of Christ/Temple/Zion – not the organization. Eph 1:1-3,11; 2 Cor 9:10-15  They are the “firstfruits”, sacrificing their lives in imitation of Christ.  Why? To bring life to the rest of mankind.  They become his Bride when further “fruits”/Abraham’s seed will be blessed with eternal life.  Rev 22:17;21:2-4

This “gathering” of “living stones” of God’s Temple (1 Cor 3:16,17) is being accomplished outside of the Watchtower.

 My faith is in the Father, the Son, and the power of Holy Spirit, not man’s twisted concept of how to worship God through an earthly organization.  I am sorry that you cannot see these things.  An earthly, “mountain” stands in your way. Matt 7:3-5; Mark 11:23; Zech 4:1-10; Rev 11:1-5; 8:8

 

[BroRando]

Water Baptism is not spurious but the Baptism in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit IS........trinitarians are counterfeit christians.

"Was the baptism of John from heaven or from men?" (Luke 20:4)

"Now I want you to know, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea  and all got baptized into Moses by means of the cloud and of the sea," (1 Corinthians 10:1-2)

Jesus is very organized, matter of fact, the Organization in the first century that baptised in water were members of the "Body of Christ'. They were called, 'the Way".    

36 minutes ago, Witness said:

My faith is in the Father, the Son, and the power of Holy Spirit, not man’s twisted concept of how to worship God through an earthly organization.  I am sorry that you cannot see these things.  An earthly, “mountain” stands in your way. Matt 7:3-5; Mark 11:23; Zech 4:1-10; Rev 11:1-5; 8:8

Wrong again. Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." (John 14:6) Only Jesus Baptizes in Holy Spirit and Fire.  His disciples continued the Water Baptism to this very Day, however Jesus never baptized with water.  "When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John, (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)" (John 4:1-2)

 "For if you publicly declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and exercise faith in your heart that God raised him up from the dead, you will be saved." (Romans 10:9) 
 

[Witness]

12 hours ago, Brother Rando said:

Jesus is very organized, matter of fact, the Organization in the first century that baptised in water were members of the "Body of Christ'. They were called, 'the Way".    

Yes, they were the foundation of God's Temple.  1 Cor 3:10,11  Each anointed one is a "living stone" of that Temple.  1 Pet 2:5,9  Jesus gave only them the authority to perform water baptism.   Matt 28:18-20

There was no organization in the first century, but the anointed Body of Christ under the New Covenant and led by Holy Spirit.   Mark 14:22-25  Of course, they were called “The Way”, being one with Christ.  John 17:22  There were congregations of both believers in Christ and anointed ones who are the Body of Christ; yet, it was entirely contradictory to an earthly organization in Satan’s world.  Acts 24:14; Rom 12:4-8

This Body was told not be “conformed to this world”.  This is an impossible feat for an earthly organization to do.  The Watchtower is totally immersed in all aspects of Satan’s world.    Rom 12:2  What the New Covenant under Christ accomplishes for mankind, the organization has spuriously taught IT will accomplish.  All focus has been shifted from God’s spiritual “administration”, to man’s earthly administration.  Zion is the Temple/Holy City of God and found within the hearts of the anointed ones.  It is not the organization.  The anointed are God’s dwelling, priestly “conduits” of life giving, life-sustaining Spirit from God, providing knowledge to all mankind.   The “law” is written on their hearts.   1 Pet 2:5; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22,10; Rev 14:1; 21:2,3; 3:12; Isa 49:6,8,9,12; Isa 2:1-5; Heb 8:10  This will be fully realized in the Kingdom.  Rev 22:2; John 7:38

“God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands.”  Acts 17:24

I see none of my words are making sense to you. I do not advocate the trinity, but I believe you think I do.  There is a baptism of water and a baptism of Holy Spirit and fire.  What truly washes our sins away that is symbolized by water baptism, is our desire to be obedient to spirit and Truth. 1 Cor 6:11 You speak of Jesus as this Truth, yet you have been sidetracked by false teachers who call the organization “the truth”.   Jesus stressed how important it is to analyze the “fruit” from the mouth of an anointed one. Matt 7:15-20  Keep in mind that Satan desires as many of Christ’s brothers as possible, to be misled and killed. This is magnified during the last days.   He doesn’t create his traps lightly, does he?  He is highly organized.  God’s “organization” is spiritual; the Body of Christ.  Satan is in control of the earthly and quite adept at “organizing”, making it exceedingly pleasing to the eye.  He uses this downfall of men to build his last successful trap against the anointed ones. Rev 13:1,5-8   Learn who they are; learn how important it is that this holy priesthood listen to only one Master, Jesus. Matt 6:24; 1 Cor 2:13,14  Consider why the anointed ones are found only in the Watchtower. 2 Thess 2:1-12; Rev 16:14-16

[BroRando]

Just as the superfine apostles spoken twisted things against 'the Way' their offspring continue that same fight today with the remaining ones. "So the dragon became enraged at the woman and went off to wage war with the remaining ones of her offspring, who observe the commandments of God and have the work of bearing witness concerning Jesus." (Rev 12:17)

If you notice the Topic, I'm alone on this thread having the work of bearing witness concerning Jesus. Even Saul was found coming against the members of the 'Body of Christ" in the first Century.  "But Saul, still breathing threat and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest and asked him for letters to the synagogues in Damascus, so that he might bring bound to Jerusalem any whom he found who belonged to The Way, both men and women." (Acts 9:1-2)   

The Way also had a governing body of the Twelve Apostles to organize the brothers in how to care for the congregation. "So the Twelve called the multitude of the disciples together and said: “It is not right for us to leave the word of God to distribute food to tables.  So, brothers, select for yourselves seven reputable men from among you, full of spirit and wisdom, that we may appoint them over this necessary matter;" (Acts 6:2-3)  

The Way was also referred to as a sect of the Nazarenes. "For we have found this man to be a pest, stirring up seditions among all the Jews throughout the inhabited earth, and he is a spearhead of the sect of the Naz·a·renesʹ." (Acts 24:5)

"With that the Jews also joined in the attack, asserting that these things were true. 10 When the governor nodded to Paul to speak, he answered:" (Act 24:9-10a)  Here is Paul's Defense:

:“Knowing well that this nation has had you as judge for many years, I readily speak in my own defense. 11 As you can verify for yourself, it has not been more than 12 days since I went up to worship in Jerusalem; 12 and they found me neither arguing with anyone in the temple nor stirring up a mob, either in the synagogues or throughout the city. 13 Nor can they prove to you the things they are accusing me of right now. 14 But I do admit this to you, that according to the way that they call a sect, in this manner I am rendering sacred service to the God of my forefathers, as I believe all the things set forth in the Law and written in the Prophets.” (Acts 24:10b-14)

Jesus said to them: “Did you never read in the Scriptures, ‘The stone that the builders rejected, this has become the chief cornerstone. This has come from Jehovah, and it is marvelous in our eyes’? (Matthew 21:42)

"This is why I say to you, the Kingdom of God will be taken from you and be given to a nation producing its fruits.  Also, the person falling on this stone will be shattered. As for anyone on whom it falls, it will crush him.” (Matthew 21:43-44)

Jesus Christ is a stepping stone for me, but for the unbelievers and persecutors, he is a stumbling block........and you are falling on this stone.... Jesus words are true, As for anyone on whom it falls, it will crush him.

 

 

 

 

[Witness]

22 hours ago, Brother Rando said:

Jesus Christ is a stepping stone for me, but for the unbelievers and persecutors, he is a stumbling block........and you are falling on this stone.... Jesus words are true, As for anyone on whom it falls, it will crush him.

 

Brother, 

If Jesus is truly a stepping stone for you, then put him before the organization.

Acts 6:2,3 is always used to support the Watchtower organization; that, and the circumcision issue.  Somehow these acts by anointed and their brethren coming together to solve two issues, gives credence that a corporation existing in Satan’s world can be considered  “Jehovah’s spirit-directed organization”.  Rev 13:15

Have you read CT Russel’s words concerning “organization”, who is written in Watchtower’s annals as its founder?

"Beware of ‘organization.’  It is wholly unnecessary. The Bible rules will be the only rules you will need. Do not seek to bind others' consciences, and do not permit others to bind yours." Zion’s Watchtower, 9/15 1895 p. 216

I am an anointed one who was disfellowshipped for my testimony of Jesus. Rev 12:17  I am not the only one.  Anointed ones are “living stones” of God’s Temple and the Body of Christ. 1 Pet 2:5,9 They must only listen to Christ, which is impossible under the thumb of the GB and elder body.   You will not truly know what it means to “bear witness” to Jesus until you stand up for him as your only Master.  Then, you will be emotionally scourged, rejected, persecuted, lose family members and hated by your own people; just as Jesus was. John 16:2; Luke 21:12,17; Mark 10:42-45;  Mark 13:11-13; John 15:18-20; Matt 23:34-36; 5:11; Rev 11:1-3,7,10; Matt 10:22,34-39

Can you see that Jesus is a stumbling stone for the leaders of the organization?  They easily disfellowship, judge another slave of Christ as spiritually “dead” for rejecting man’s doctrine – not the words of Christ.  Rom 14:4; James 4:12; Matt 7:1,2; 24:48-51

I encourage you to continue in your zeal for Jesus, but direct it in the right way  - not against those who already love Christ and the Father with their whole heart, soul and mind. Matt 22:37  Worshiping in this way, leaves no room to serve, or love and idol. Matt 6:24; Rev 13:4,7

“The Bible rules will be the only rules you will need.”

 Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews.  But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.  God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”  John 4:21-24