Tom Preaches To Muslim Men

[TrueTomHarley]

2 hours ago, Gone Fishing said:

Please clarify to stay on topic.

Well - sometimes topic is as fluid as gender is these days. Beef with me over gender and I will have your job, as though I was at the university. Same with topic.

2 hours ago, Arauna said:

Working in the Muslim field

"When the four Muslim men invited me inside, I thought: ‘uh oh. Terrorists!’ But there was no real reason to think that, so I stepped inside and took the seat offered me on the couch. They were just four young men sharing an apartment; plenty of American-born students do the same. It was a pigsty; but then, so was my apartment when I was in school. (my wife inexplicably thinks that my study still is!) I started playing the ‘Why Study the Bible?’ video, but there was much chatter. They apologized for it; two of them were translating for the other two. I took the video back and replayed it in Arabic.

"They were astounded to read ‘Jehovah’ at Ps 83:18; “I have never seen this before,” one of them said. He certainly didn’t roll over and give up; he wanted me to read the Quran. “Not any Quran. A good one.” Mohammed is the prophet more recent than Jesus, he said. ‘Ah, but did he die for our sins?’ But the brother taking the lead in our area’s Arabic group said, with so many refugees absolutely fed up with the violence done in the name of God when all they want is simply to live in peace, that they just pass over any who want to argue in any way; they’ll bid them a good day, and move on. There’s just so many who are instantly drawn to the biblical teaching of a paradise earth. Maybe on the next go-round they’ll speak to the ideologues, but not now – and the current round is huge. It’s probably good, though, if you can let them know that the Bible’s teaching on God’s oneness and against idolatry squares with their own:

“The idols of the nations are silver and gold the work of human hands. A mouth they have, but they cannot speak; Eyes, but they cannot see; ears they have, but they cannot hear. There is no breath in their mouth. The people who make them will become just like them, as will all those who trust in them.” (Psalm 135:15-18)

"When I return to these guys, before I go anywhere, I’ll point out how Jehovah’s Witnesses are politically neutral and don’t vote. I’ve heard the terrorist argument that there are no innocent civilians in the West, since they the elect the leaders who go on to commit atrocious misdeeds."  -  Tom Irregardless and Me

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Hmmmmm ... I thought that in some countries, specifically where it is a felony to discourage people from voting ... that the GB allows Witnesses to vote.   I don't know where I got that idea, but I know that during the Vietnam War a soldier attending the Meetings could join the Ministry School, and participate ... at least in theory. 

I know in Mexico, we were not allowed to sing for somewhere around 50 years, pretending we were a "cultural" group, instead of a religion, as religions were not allowed to own real estate. I also ran across that when I was in the Congo, from Brothers at  Bethel on the Avenue des Elephants in the Limete District.

I thought "new light" was that voting is now a matter of personal conscience (?).

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

I found this:

Watchtower 1999 11/1 pp.28-29

Questions From Readers - How do Jehovah’s Witnesses view voting?

There are clear principles set out in the Bible that enable servants of God to take a proper view of this matter. However, there appears to be no principle against the practice of voting itself. For example, there is no reason why a board of directors should not take a vote in order to arrive at decisions affecting their corporation. Congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses often make decisions about meeting times and the use of congregation funds by voting with a show of hands.

What, though, of voting in political elections? Of course, in some democratic lands, as many as 50 percent of the population do not turn out to vote on election day. As for Jehovah’s Witnesses, they do not interfere with the right of others to vote; neither do they in any way campaign against political elections. They respect and cooperate with the authorities who are duly elected in such elections. (Romans 13:1-7) As to whether they will personally vote for someone running in an election, each one of Jehovah’s Witnesses makes a decision based on his Bible-trained conscience and an understanding of his responsibility to God and to the State. (Matthew 22:21; 1 Peter 3:16)....

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

I was going to ask some Muslim folks about who makes their bomb vests for them, but the last time I got into a conversation, they got all excited when they found out I could drive a tractor-trailer truck.

[TrueTomHarley]

Yikes! How did this happen? Here I am at the head of a new thread I did not start, and you-know-who lodges the first three comments trying to stir up mischief. Ah, well. The theme is okay - though it is not my specialty and I have no plans to add to it. (Besides, it is a plug for an excellent ebook authored by (blush) well, you know)

3 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Hmmmmm ... I thought that in some countries, specifically where it is a felony to discourage people from voting ... that the GB allows Witnesses to vote. 

I was speaking generally. Witnesses are politically neutral. Voting is not necessarily the same, though there is overlap. I suspect that the more the issue is "Do you want the new storm sewer to run down your street or don't you?" the more likely brothers are to vote. But even there it is a rarity. There are several hot local issues around here that friends know of and will be affected by and community meetings have been held to discuss them. I even attended one. But I have heard of no brother getting all cranked up over it or wanting to weigh in.

You rail on about how the GB wants to control everything and how they may or may not "allow" something, and then you quote an article that establishes the exact opposite:

3 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

As to whether they will personally vote for someone running in an election, each one of Jehovah’s Witnesses makes a decision based on his Bible-trained conscience and an understanding of his responsibility to God and to the State. (Matthew 22:21; 1 Peter 3:16)....Watchtower 1999 11/1 pp.28-29

Actually, I remember this article. It had just come out and I was visiting my one Bethel pal who has reached breathtakingly high positions at Bethel since, though I have not seen him in decades and am maybe just making it up. I commented to him then something to the effect of 'so, we vote now, do we?' The next day he came across the article himself. 'I thought you were kidding,' he said. 

If memory serves, there was also something about a wife voting because an unbelieving husband insisted upon it, and the matter of relative subjection. 

So yes, apparently some Witnesses have voted. But I know of no instance in my 40+ years. Any political reference from me (I do sometimes make them) generally earns me the fish-eye. I have discovered there are a few who have thought me too political because when brothers have repeated what they hear on the news that Trump is stupid and racist and vain and hates everyone under the sun, I have said 'I kind of like the guy,' just because I hate to see a hit job. 

I don't argue the merits or demerits of anything political and I take it seriously that some might think it of me and so I lay low even more - you do not disturb the peace of the congregation over such things. However, for many of our people, even knowing about politics is enough to be seen taking part in them.

Okay? I go off on a spiel here to show how we are over political matters. If anything, I am the one who is 'out there.' Yet I have never voted in my life. Apparently a few have or do. But I have never personally heard of it. 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

I would only vote if monstrous evil forces were poised to take over the government that NOW protects me from physical enemies, foreign and domestic, and financial ruin and destitution, to try and prevent enslavement and national bankruptcy ... for the good of myself and temporal civilization ... as a stopgap measure while I wait on Jehovah's Time to do it better.

Self defense in any form is ALWAYS permissible ... if that is what it truly is.

If you choose to exercise that natural right.

 

[TrueTomHarley]

Also, the article I am recalling would have appeared in the early 80's. So it is not the one referred to above, which is 1999.