Do jw's believe in a rapture?

[Bubba Johnson Jr]

35 Nevertheless, someone will say: “How are the dead to be raised up? Yes, with what sort of body are they coming?” 36 You unreasonable person! What you sow is not made alive unless first it dies. 37 And as for what you sow, you sow, not the body that will develop, but just a bare grain, whether of wheat or of some other kind of seed; 38 but God gives it a body just as it has pleased him, and gives to each of the seeds its own body.
35 Nevertheless, someone will say: “How are the dead to be raised up? Yes, with what sort of body are they coming?” 36 You unreasonable person! What you sow is not made alive unless first it dies. 37 And as for what you sow, you sow, not the body that will develop, but just a bare grain, whether of wheat or of some other kind of seed; 38 but God gives it a body just as it has pleased him, and gives to each of the seeds its own body.
 

 

oops

[Bubba Johnson Jr]

42 So it is with the resurrection of the dead42 So it is with the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised up in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor; it is raised up in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised up in power. 44 It is sown a physical body; it is raised up a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one. 
 

[JW Insider]

8 hours ago, Outta Here said:

These definitions confirm the incorrectness of applying the term "rapture" if this is what it is understood to mean. It might make sense to someone who believed that Jesus was "transported" to earth when he came to offer the Ransom Sacrifice.

No one is claiming those definitions are the best, just that the common definition of rapture as a change of state need not carry the false baggage of believing that physical bodies go to heaven.

I have no problem with the word transported in this case either, as long as we know we are talking about the "life force" of the Son of God being transferred into the womb of Mary. Note:

*** w62 3/1 p. 160 Questions From Readers ***
The Greek word at Hebrews 11:5 rendered “transferred” in the New World Translation has the meaning of “transfer,” “transport,” or “change the place of.” It seems that the experience of the apostle Paul throws light on this matter, since he was transferred or caught up to the third heaven; whether in the body or out of the body, he was not able to say. In this state he caught a vision of the future spiritual paradise of the Christian congregation. (2 Cor. 12:1-4) Apparently it was in a similar state of spiritual rapture or ecstasy, while having a vision of the earthly paradise (Enoch not knowing anything about a spiritual one), that God took Enoch away or put him to sleep.

*** w70 6/1 p. 327 par. 9 Do You Have “Faith to the Preserving Alive of the Soul”? ***
Enoch was thus “transferred so as not to see death,” but first “he had the witness that he had pleased God well.” (Heb. 11:5) How so? The Greek word rendered “transferred” at Hebrews 11:5 means “transfer,” “transport” or “change the place of” and is suggestive of what happened to Paul. He was transferred or caught up to the “third heaven” miraculously, receiving a vision of the future spiritual paradise of the Christian congregation. (2 Cor. 12:1-4) Enoch, who knew nothing about a spiritual paradise, was apparently in a comparable condition of rapture . . .

Perhaps it's a North American thing, but I don't see a problem with Jehovah transporting the life of Jesus from heaven to earth, and then knowing that he was "caught up" to heaven when his life was transferred (transported) from earth to heaven.

*** ws17 February p. 7 par. 15 Jehovah’s Purpose Will Be Fulfilled! ***
Jehovah transferred the life of Jesus, his first creation, from heaven to earth. (John 1:14)

(2 Corinthians 12:2-4) . . .I know a man in union with Christ who, 14 years ago—whether in the body or out of the body, I do not know; God knows—was caught away to the third heaven. 3 Yes, I know such a man—whether in the body or apart from the body, I do not know; God knows— 4 who was caught away into paradise and heard words that cannot be spoken and that are not lawful for a man to say.

(1 Thessalonians 4:17) 17 Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we will always be with the Lord.

(John 14:3) 3 Also, if I go my way and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will receive you home to myself, so that where I am you also may be.

(Acts 1:9) 9 After he had said these things, while they were looking on, he was lifted up and a cloud caught him up from their sight.

*** w56 4/15 p. 239 Was Jesus a God-Man? ***
If Jesus had been a mere incarnation, then it would not have been necessary for God to transfer his life to an embryo in the virgin’s womb and to have Jesus born as a helpless infant, subject to human parents;

[Evacuated]

7 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Perhaps it's a North American thing

Perhaps it is. I appreciate the references but I have a more than sneaky feeling that we just do not know what the mechanics of this transference of life really entail. I have no problem at all in accepting the fact that these things have occurred or will occur, but the attempted explanations of how I find inadequate.

There are a number of instances.

• Enoch's transference so as not to "see death".
• The materialisation of fully fleshly human bodies by spirit creatures
• The restoration of life to a corpse
• The transfer of Jesus from heaven to earth, from spirit to human form
• The resurrection of Jesus from human death to spirit life
• The 3rd heaven experience of Paul
• The resurrection of humans from human death to spirit life in the heavens
• The instantaneous transference of humans from human life on earth to spirit life in heaven
• The resurrection of humans from death to human life on earth across the passage of time
• The releasing of Satan from the abyss.

"Above my pay grade" is the best I can do with these matters up to now. And I am happy with that. 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

... you really don't want to go to the Heavens 4 and 5 ... that's where the Baptists and Unitarians  go.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

.... Food at the proper time" there is always southern style potato salad, fried chicken, and something called "pot luck".

[Matthew9969]

21 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I understand the point you are making ... and it is a good extrapolation ... except a "soul" is someone ( OR SOME LIVING CREATURE ...) who breathes atmospheric oxygen mix.   The reason we do NOT have to bleed fish (often caught in nets by the thousands ...) is that they ARE not souls. They do not live and breathe air.

I eat clam chowder at least four times a week.

How would you bleed a clam?

They are CHANGED in the twinkling of an eye ... to another life form ... not extracted.

Uh... people, not clams.

 

 

I was on my work tablet, didn't want to say to much because typing on a tablet is time consuming, so thank you for clarifying my point.

 

[Matthew9969]

And Christians who believe in the rapture do not believe the physical body is raptured.

[Matthew9969]

3 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

.... Food at the proper time" there is always southern style potato salad, fried chicken, and something called "pot luck".

And you can have it delivered to you via Uber.

[Shiwiii]

On 7/1/2019 at 4:41 PM, JW Insider said:

Yes, the regular JW believes in a rapture (although some still do not yet know that this is what they believe, because the teaching is rarely repeated).

If it is rarely repeated and not talked about often, how then are they to know what to believe? 

 

The second point I guess about this question is, does the idea of a rapture only apply to the anointed? Is this why regular jws don't know that they are supposed to believe this? 

If yes is the answer to my above second question, then what is supposed to happen to the regular jw and his/her body once this "rapture" takes place? nothing? 

[JW Insider]

1 hour ago, Shiwiii said:

If it is rarely repeated and not talked about often, how then are they to know what to believe? 

If it's in the Watchtower, most of us believe it without question, or at least we will when we are clear about what it is saying. But this particular Watchtower I quoted shows that we do not believe in what is considered "the rapture" with all the features that we think Christendom attaches to it. But without those assumed features, the article is saying that we do believe in "a rapture." The basic idea of "rapture" as meaning caught away into a different state (such as earth to heaven) is now taught. In the past we avoided this teaching, and assumed it was possible that some anointed might actually live out their natural lives after Armageddon, and die while others are being resurrected. It was a rather odd idea, but who knows?

After an idea that's a bit confusing to some is repeated in an assembly or public talk, or in a meeting, or another publication, QFR, etc., it will then be "known."

1 hour ago, Shiwiii said:

The second point I guess about this question is, does the idea of a rapture only apply to the anointed? Is this why regular jws don't know that they are supposed to believe this? 

If yes is the answer to my above second question, then what is supposed to happen to the regular jw and his/her body once this "rapture" takes place? nothing? 

Yes, this particular idea applies only to the truly anointed who have the hope of living in heaven. I assumed that by "regular" JW you meant those with an earthly hope who will not participate in such a rapture, and will not even necessarily expect to witness such a rapture. The physical body of the anointed JW raised suddenly to heavenly life, is typically expected to disappear somehow, as its life force is perhaps subsumed into a completely spiritual (invisible) body, but what the process might look like is purely conjecture, and it is rarely conjectured by anyone out loud, as far as I know.

[Space Merchant]

@Shiwiii I do not think they believe that, not even some of us in the Nontrinitarian circle believe this either due to physical flesh and bone not being able to access the spiritual plain as is (i.e. a simple man simply going into heaven likewise to a simple man entering a restaurant by means of a door), as well as the whole situation of God's promise concerning the earth, New Covenant, Firstfruits, etc.

On 7/1/2019 at 6:04 PM, Shiwiii said:

Elijah

Also just so you know, Elijah wrote and sent an epistle to King Jehoram of Judah. As far as I know, letters do not come out of heaven, God's dwelling place, also before the Christ was ever born, which spouts another can of worms regarding a verse in John 3. Likewise, with Apostle Paul, him being parallel to Elijah.