The Man of Lawlessness in the 21st Century

[Witness]

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

You can be "academic" how much you want, but so many words you put in comments, without any Bible verse that supports your opinions. And as result of this statement you made: 

20 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

There is no Christian who is inspired today, something of which I told you several times in the past discussions.

i think that i can't believe in your teachings/explanations because: you are not "inspired" ... and you are not "infallible" ! 

He must have the ability to read each heart, just as the Father and Christ do. Why would he need scriptures?  

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

As you get older, it's not so much about being "inspired", or "infallible" ... it's more about being uncomfortable, and uninsurable.

[TrueTomHarley]

4 hours ago, Witness said:

He must have the ability to read each heart, just as the Father and Christ do. Why would he need scriptures?  

This is too much—absolutely too much. Witness and @Srecko Sostarmaking common cause, as though she was his anointed. Meanwhile....

 

2 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

As you get older, it's not so much about being "inspired", or "infallible" ... it's more about being uncomfortable, and uninsurable.

Let us freely admit it. There are times when nobody says it better than the ol pork chop.. 

[Srecko Sostar]

7 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

This is too much—absolutely too much

Well, well.... you addressed your displeasure with @Witness and me. But @Space Merchant  is excluded from your feelings ? :))) 

Do you agree Tom, about idea SM offered in his "revelation" ? Would you be so kind and offer Bible verses on SM claims? Perhaps he is right, but again, he offered no verses that give some possibility to think of "inspired and uninspired" Christians in 1 century.

And especially about INFALLIBLE followers of Jesus. :)) SM speaking about Paul as Infallible : ))) Who will be next??

[TrueTomHarley]

2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Do you agree Tom, about idea SM offered in his "revelation" ?

I don’t really know who anyone here is, nor do I know exactly where he is coming from. I skim a lot. I missed that point of his. It is enough to know that he is not against Jehovah’s people. One does not have to weigh in on every little thing. Not having seen it, I don’t know whether I agree with it or not.

I think that SM and I are not on the same page in everything, but for purposes of this forum, we share more ground than not. It is not at all like Witness and yourself—you, who have outgrown any need or desire for God—and she, who is far too pious even for me, quoting reams of verses every time she bats an eyelid, each of which you reject. And here she is lending you support as though a faithful wife. It is not that I am “displeased” with it. I just find it weird. That is what is “too much.”

It is not like when, ages ago, someone said of my young son that he was “too much” as she listened to him, and he later asked: “Why did that lady say that there was too much of me?”

 

[Space Merchant]

15 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

And this is answer? :))

Yes. Because it is a direct and yet brief response to what you asked.

15 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Extraordinary ! Do you want to tell here how (Paul was both inspired and infallible) means:

1) He became infallible because he was accept Christianity  

2) He was infallible because he was inspired 24/7

3) He was inspired because he became infallible

Perhaps due to gifts, the ability to go into trance induced visions, the ability to speak in tongues, etc.

15 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

or Paul was came down from Heaven like Jesus and that is reason for his infallibleness :))

lol what? Paul did not come down from heaven... Paul became an Apostle, and he became a Christian. We clearly see that in the Bible that Paul was indeed both inspired and infallible due to the fact of what we read in for instance 2 Corinthians 12 and elsewhere concerning evidence of miraculous gifts expressed by those who are both inspired and infallible, more so, Paul wrote more an anyone else as well.

16 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

And of course, you offer NO SINGLE VERSE

I had, several times to you (hence both linked threads addressing you and addressing Witness), I merely paraphrased what I had said, and linked where I had addressed and explained such to you.
But you do not care about verses because we can see what happen after I spoke in regards to those inspired and those who are not.

16 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Paul was INSPIRED or Paul was INFALLIBLE. !!!!!

Yes he was. Yes indeed - which is correct.

16 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Maybe such verses exist, i don't know.

Have you read into the miraculous gifts of what Paul conveyed? An example would be him having visions, and or speaking in tongues.
Apostle Paul was given visions by means of the Lord (read 2 Corinthians 12, specifically the first 7 verses), both you and Witness should know this because you have both quoted from this chapter before, I do not see how you missed that - evidently purposely as both of you not uttered such here. More so, the outline title even reads Visions and revelations of the Lord [Paul's Visions and His Thorn]

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Corinthians+12%3A1-7&version=ESV

and aside from that it is said to be the history of the Book of Acts is full of such visions (other examples concerning visions - Acts 9:4-6; Acts 16:9; Acts 18:9; Acts 22:18; Acts 23:11; Acts 27:23).

16 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

But you prove nothing - NO BIBLE VERSES - ONLY Practically regarding what the Bible says, which is the proof right there.

That is because the Bible holds truth to such elementary knowledge and it had been addressed to you well over 4 times, only this time I choose to link my response in full. Especially in regards to Apostle Paul, of which a whole lot of people seem to get wrong in what he says, even both you and Witness felt short of this... Remember, Biblical Facts.

16 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Later you just made DESCRIPTION about some names in scriptures. And put those names in TWO GROUPS, Inspired and Uninspired Christians. 

You said 2 classes and you tagged on the addition of roles. The line between the inspired and the not inspired is evident, in short, one can have visions, the other cannot.

So either groups and or classes..... Make up your mind.

16 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

academic

Academic? I am not speaking of religious studies at all only the Bible's message in regards to the inspired and not inspired, so what was the point of bringing this up? The focus here is Elementary Knowledge in regards to basic hermenutics of what the Bible conveys, nothing more; nothing less.

But that is quite the joke, granted you think education of religion has something to do with what is proclaimed from God's Word.

16 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

without any Bible verse that supports your opinions. And as result of this statement you made: 

That because I mentioned this to you several times already, and I simply linked my older response with verses to back up what I had said. You and Witness also made response before only for both of you to be corrected, nonetheless.

Also the statement I made is actually true. The ability to have visions and the like died with the last of the Apostles, which is evident because students of the Apostles had no such ability and no one has up until now.

16 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

you are not "inspired" ... and you are not "infallible" ! 

And what is the reasoning behind this? Obviously I am not, neither you, or anyone here (Tom, Billy, JWI, Rook, etc). None of us, that is - if you were alive around Paul and John's time, clearly not.

No one is inspired and or infallible, this goes for all persons granted that after the apostles died, no other person had ever been inspired and or infallible.
The irony is you completely shot out the window of Christians, spirit led ones, who proclaim the message about the news and the Christ. Although they are not inspired/infallible, they still kept the churches in union and continued to convey the truth - back then to present day.

That being said, any who makes the claim of inspiration and or being infallible in this day and age, 100% can have their spirit put to the test, and can easily be exposed to be a false prophet and or teacher, an example would be such as those who believe they see Hell and people there, that is a dead giveaway of a false teacher, one who claimed to be inspired when we know by means of the Bible, such abilities were for and only expressed by earlier prophets and Apostles of God.

14 hours ago, Witness said:

He must have the ability to read each heart, just as the Father and Christ do.

Clearly I do not, therefore unlike you, I do not call a people with the accusation of being under demonic influence despite the fact they are deemed strangers, more so, granted that no one is inspired or infallible.

A nice try, but weak false accusation at most.

14 hours ago, Witness said:

Why would he need scriptures? 

I always use Scripture and always will. that is why I linked my full response, that is, if you bothered to check. Because if I repeat myself not, people will end up dwelling in their foolishness and come to claim that it is too much for them to take in.

That being said, I suggest you check the link because the response of inspiration was directed to both of you in past discussions.
Other than that, in regards to Inspiration, that is pure elementary knowledge, therefore, I, unknown to the both of you, paraphrased and or alluded to a verse and or passage. For Paul's inspiration should have been seen by the both of you, but we already know that not everything regarding Paul both of you agree with.

Anyways, both links in regards to inspiration had been addressed, perhaps take the time to look at what is conveyed with biblical evidence that support what is said.

You of ALL people should know that no man or woman since the days of the Apostle can have visions, clearly - this small shred of information had been amissed by you as well despite the fact you and Srecko alluded to such a while ago. The irony.

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

But @Space Merchant  is excluded from your feelings ? :))) 

I care for more factual information rather than feelings in this regards to the subject of inspiration as is with lawlessness.

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

SM offered in his "revelation" ?

And you show us anywhere of which I some how made a Revelation? This is the donkey all over again - for you make a claim, but do not attest to and or give answer or evidence to said claim.

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Would you be so kind and offer Bible verses on SM claims?

Regarding Paul 1 Corinthians 14:18 and 2 Corinthians 12:1-7 - check all marginal references to. Also check the links to the other 2 threads whereas such had already been addressed to you, to Witness and to Butler.

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Perhaps he is right, but again, he offered no verses that give some possibility to think of "inspired and uninspired" Christians in 1 century.

And yet both threads addressed such. The real question is have you taken the time to actually look at my response, of which had been addressed literally over 6 times concerning you and the other two.

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

And especially about INFALLIBLE followers of Jesus. :)) SM speaking about Paul as Infallible : ))) Who will be next??

We can clearly see in the Bible and make the distinction of who had such gifts in regards to prophesying by means of trance filled visions. That alone is an indicator of who is actually inspired and infallible.

That being said, you stressed context before, I ask again as to how you missed this?

 

 

[Space Merchant]

@TrueTomHarley The problem with both Witness and Srecko is such has been pointed out to them before with biblical evidence as shown in the link to 2 threads I commented on a while ago. The both of them do not fully understand Apostle Paul either as evidence shown in another thread concerning Religious Office and God's Order of things as linked below:

That being said, granted of what the Bible says in regards to miraculous gifts concerning those who are both inspired and infallible, that information is basic and elementary and for anyone to had missed that and or completely ignored it prompts a call into question if they actually read their Bible, more so, take in context (for Srecko stressed context before) and conveying the message.

If context is given, they both will flip their lips. If context is paraphrased with a brief response, they say there is no back up to said response despite the fact it had been addressed well over 5 times to both of them.

 

But back to the topic at hand, what is mentioned about Apostle Paul is true, as is with all prophets of God who had the gifts, which included abilities such as visions, whereas those after them, after the Apostles do not have such gifts, instead convey the good news gospel and the Messianic Age of the Christ whereas the spirit allows such ones to take up the commission to spread the gospel truths.

As is done in the 1st century and onward to now.

 

[Space Merchant]

13 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

As you get older, it's not so much about being "inspired", or "infallible" ... it's more about being uncomfortable, and uninsurable.

Although we are not inspired and or infallible, even while old we can still maintain our wisdom and can spread our knowledge to others as is with the young. The passing on of wisdom if you will. There is some education that the parents teach which is done at the home, something of which the schools and or clubs cannot teach.

That is why while one is young, do what they just now before they get older.

That being said, there is a selected who knows what to do in terms of longevity of life concerning the body, therefore, as they age and get older, they are less effected compared to those in common society. But that is in the domain of health and eating, for right now the focus here is concerning Paul, the early church, lawlessness and inspiration.

 

[Srecko Sostar]

3 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Christians, spirit led ones

.... this means that it is not problem if you are not "inspired"?  Because you are "spirit led"???  :))) What is this?

 All this what you described looks like this, to me:

top level        1) Inspired

middle level  2) spirit led

lower level    3) uninspired

lowest level  4) all other

 

Ones again. Give me 1 or 2 Bible verses where is stated in clear and simple words to understand:

A) Paul is inspired

B) Paul is infallible

Just that, not an essay with 1679 words.

 

[Srecko Sostar]

3 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

20 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Later you just made DESCRIPTION about some names in scriptures. And put those names in TWO GROUPS, Inspired and Uninspired Christians. 

You said 2 classes

GROUP:

 https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/group

a number of people or things that are put together or considered as a unit:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/group

a number of individuals assembled together or having some unifying relationship

CLASS:

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/class

to consider someone or something to belong to a particular groupbecause of their qualities

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/class

a group of persons or things having characteristics in common:

[Witness]

TTH stated:  "I don’t really know who anyone here is, nor do I know exactly where he is coming from. I skim a lot. I missed that point of his. It is enough to know that he is not against Jehovah’s people. 

 

The phrase “Jehovah’s people” that SM appears to support, does not include him as one of “Jehovah’s people”, obviously.   Where does that leave anyone who appears to support “Jehovah’s people”?  According to the organization, they become toast in Armageddon, since it is absolutely necessary to be baptized into the organization, to have any chance of surviving into the “new world”.   I doubt if SM would support that belief, but it is the general consensus of JWs.    Where does that leave those who are approached to help WT and its members reach liberty when under ban, or in other times of peril, when they come to their rescue?   These outside individuals are not saved in Armageddon, because they are part of the “world” and not dedicated to the organization. Wasn’t that the sober theme of the special talk following the Memorial this year?  By the way, where is that video these days?  It is hard to find. 

People, organizations, political rulers, that are called upon to assist in rescuing “Jehovah’s people”; which equates to, rescuing an organization’s right to exist in this earthly system, will not be thanked by “Jehovah” when the end comes.  All, according to the teachings of the Watchtower. 

God has a people; firstfruits of all of his future children, who must be refined and found faithful during their sojourn in Satan’s world.  1 Pet 5:8-10; James 1:18  Their success in fighting off all that Satan deceives them with, proves them acceptable to be a servant and a guide for God’s other “people”, His children to come, in the Kingdom.  Mal 2:7

The priority to be found as one of God’s children, is to receive Christ; individually, not an earthly organization that claims it is led by Christ.  John 1:11-13  There is no Bible based scripture to support this belief. Since those faithful firstfruits are priests that hold in their heart God’s decrees, and are striving to obey Christ’s teachings, the words which may be received by others, contain Spirit from Christ. They choose to listen, believe or walk away.  John 13:20

In the organization, are these “firstfruits” able to speak God’s decrees? No.  They speak what is placed before them by men who glorify themselves, and not the words of Christ. Matt 24:24  As God’s people, they have no ability to speak on behalf of their Head.  Their sacrifices of praise are restricted.  Their spiritual “power” as priests, is gone; and with it, is the truth about who are genuinely, God’s people.

Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22; Rev 5:9,10

Dan 8:11,12 - It acted arrogantly even against the Prince of the heavenly army; it revoked his regular sacrifice and overthrew the place of his sanctuary.  ¹² Because of rebellion, a host, together with the daily sacrifice, will be given over. The horn will throw truth to the ground and will be successful in whatever it does.

 

“Then I, Daniel, looked, and two others were standing there, one on this bank of the river and one on the other. ⁶ One of them said to the man dressed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, “How long until the end of these extraordinary things?” ⁷ Then I heard the man dressed in linen, who was above the waters of the river. He raised both his hands toward heaven and swore by Him who lives eternally that it would be for a time, times, and half a time. When the power of the holy people is shattered, all these things will be completed.”

I heard but did not understand. So I asked, “My lord, what will be the outcome of these things?”

⁹ He said, “Go on your way, Daniel, for the words are secret and sealed until the time of the end. ¹⁰ Many will be purified, cleansed, and refined, but the wicked will act wickedly; none of the wicked will understand, but the wise will understand. ¹¹ From the time the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination of desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.  – symbolic days.  Dan 12:5-13

Dan 11:31; Matt 24:15; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1-3

It is ignorance to believe that God blesses an organization as “Jehovah’s people”, when they do not perceive His Temple, the necessary obligation that His priests must perform, and the vital need for them to be cognizant of their Head, Jesus Christ.  Heb 13:15; Col 2:19  A “faithful and discreet slave” appointed to dispense “food at the proper time", would never usurp the role of Christ by appointing oneself as head over God's anointed ones,  as the GB has.  Matt 24:45-51

The organization is a fantasy world of deceit.  Anyone who supports such a fantasy, whether inside or outside the organization, is spiritually standing on shaky ground. 2 Thess 2:9-12; Rev 16:13,14; 20:7-10; Zech 4:7

 

“Abomination of Desolation” – 4womaninthewilderness Pearl Doxsey

 

 

[Srecko Sostar]

4 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

19 hours ago, Witness said:

He must have the ability to read each heart, just as the Father and Christ do.

Clearly I do not, therefore unlike you, I do not call a people with the accusation of being under demonic influence

In Trinity topic you used such accusations, this are quotes of yours (addressed to me):

1)  Your own claims are forfeit because there were merely lies, more so, satanic lies ...

2)  For he is a Satanic hypocrite to the highest degree in this sense.

Something is wrong with your mirror !  :))