If You’re Going to Bewail Manipulation, Bewail it Where it Counts

[TrueTomHarley]

The speaker’s wife gave one of the first comments at the Watchtower Study—on the very first paragraph. It sort of fit, since the theme was on making wise decisions and following through. Still, she ‘shoehorned’ it in a bit—it wasn’t a perfect fit. She said how she had not been manipulated to become one of Jehovah’s Witnesses—it had been her own choice and one that she did not regret.

Well, who said that she had been manipulated?—that’s why the comment had an artificial flavor to it—the paragraph itself contained no hint of it. Furthermore, pushing the limits of the 30-second goal for comments, put in place so no one loquacious person steals the show, she found it the stupidest notion in the world for anyone to suggest that. Manipulation? How ridiculous.

Plainly, someone had thrust that idea at her recently, maybe some sorehead that she had run across at work or among the neighbors—that it is no more than manipulation with Jehovah’s Witnesses—that’s why they believe and act as they do. It is the classic technique of the mainstream bully—to assert that one couldn’t possibly depart from the ordinary unless they had been manipulated to do so, and “unfairly” manipulated at that—had the “manipulation” been in that bully’s direction, there would be no problem with it.

You can apply this to anything. The reason you bought a Chevy is that you were manipulated by their ads. The reason you cheered for the 49ers is that you were manipulated by San Francisco. The reason you went to college is that you were manipulated by the guidance counselor. The reason that you died for your country is that you were manipulated by that country to think the cause noble—nobody of any other country thought so. 

Really, Jehovah’s Witnesses least fit the accusation of manipulation, because they, unlike the above examples, represent persons who were actively searching—they were anything but moldable pieces of dough. They were dissatisfied with the status quo, dissatisfied with where life was heading, dissatisfied with the goals society set before them, and they took upwards of a year looking over a new model, weighing and trying it on for size, before committing to it. All this was done in familiar surroundings without leaving trusted routine—as opposed to the above examples of college and military, in which one is immersed 24/7 in unfamiliar settings, a classic tool of manipulators.

Well, if you are going to talk manipulation, talk it with something that counts. That’s why I liked Mark Sanderson kicking back at the petty application of manipulation with a major one. In his annual meeting talk about not being fearful, he quoted Hebrews 2:15, that “through [Jesus’] death [God] might bring to nothing the one having the means to cause death, that is, the Devil, and that he might set free all those who were held in slavery all their lives by their fear of death.”

Sanderson cited the Nuremberg trials, in which various Nazis who had committed unspeakable atrocities were asked the simple question, “How could you do those terrible things?” “What did they say?” he asked, and then related the answer they had given: “We had no choice. If we didn’t obey they would put us to death.” 

“Those people could be manipulated,” Sanderson said. “They could be controlled. They could be made to do the most wicked things because they were afraid.” Exactly! If you are going to bandy about words as “manipulate” and “control,” don’t trivialize the terms—do it with an example that matters! Don’t do it with an example of choosing this life course or that life course, neither of which will extend beyond 80 years. Do it with the example of control and manipulation that will gain you the reputation of a mass murderer to last throughout all time. Maybe that’s why the resurrection of the dead was one of the first Christian teachings to come under attack, even during the time of the apostles; the teaching thwarted the goal to keep people afraid so that you can make them do what you want.

Was it coincidence for Sanderson to speak as he did or did it represent kicking back at these petty people who put all their stock in the here and now, equating acting by faith as “control” and “manipulation?” I don’t know, but I wouldn’t mind seeing more of it.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

Um, Children of JW parents. @TrueTomHarley are manipulated. 

Didn't a member of the GB say something like 'Don't let them have their driving licence until they get baptised'.

I do know, having known the JW Org for over 50 years, that children of JW Parents are bribed / manipulated.

A child raised as a JW has to go to the meetings, has to mix with mainly JWs and other JW children. And had to go on the ministry at weekends. They do not get an option. They have to go where their parents take them. 

Then there is the competition that you don't believe in, about getting them baptised. At 6 or 7 years old ? Well maybe the child gets to be 10 before the real pressure in put on, or the bribery.

Then of course if a child hasn't been allowed to mix with 'people of the world', because 'the world is so wicked', then that is a form of manipulation. Why ? Because it has formed a wrong opinion in the child's mind. The child will actually believe it's parents. The child will be frightened to mix with 'people of the world' and won't trust anyone outside the Org.  Totally unfair. And then you have the 'You don't need higher education'. Now that again is manipulation. If you stop your child getting higher education, you have changed the direction of that child's life. That is manipulation. 

In my opinion, manipulation isn't just pushing a person in a direction, it can also be, putting up a barrier to make a person change direction, especially if that new direction is the deliberate intention of the person in control.

And of course once a child is baptised the manipulation gets worse as the Elders now have control. The threat of shunning and disfellowshipping, and thereby being thrown out of home, is the new fear a child has. I've seen it all take place. I've seen a young man made to live in the family garage as he had nowhere else to live, but they would not let him live in the house. 

Manipulation is alive and well in the JW Org. It's not in people's mind. There is proof of it happening. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Witness]

Manipulation is the byword of the Watchtower.  Tom, we are to be "moldable pieces"....not of dough, but of clay.  

Yet you, Lord, are our Father. We are the clay, you are the potter; we are all the work of your hand.  Isa 64:8

Every faithful JW is the product, the "work", of the organization.  The manipulation began with the promise of eternal life, if and only if, one enters and becomes its product.  

"You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies."  1 Cor 6:19b,20

Samuel Herd used the partial scripture in 1 Cor 6:19, which in its entirety, refers to the anointed Temple.  Although he used it to support the construction work, the Bethel work, the organizational work as a whole.  When JWs are baptized, they are dedicated to the organization. They are no longer their own, but must live up to that vow (which the magazines have reminded them of) 

What Herd meant was...  "You are not your own; you were bought at a price (your life/soul). Therefore honor the organization with your bodies."

 

[Arauna]

5 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

don’t know, but I wouldn’t mind seeing more of it.

Thanks for piece. I agree, they do call out 'manipulation '  on the flimsiest of excuses...... because they do not want to use the word 'accountability' when it comes to every persons  own choices. They then,  act like victims which seems to be the mainstream's / secular mental attitude these days..... 

Yes, we are moldable clay - only by Jehovah....and you must be a willing participant....... to work only on yourself...

Children,  and especially teenagers, rebel extremely quickly  if they are boxed in..... They do not like restictions and they are taught an independent and secular way of thinking in the school.... The true manipulators is the education system with its LGBTQ etc. .... So the argument that the children are 'victims' of JWs is just another ploy or a 'manipulation' of the truth....... 

[Srecko Sostar]

13 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Didn't a member of the GB say something like 'Don't let them have their driving licence until they get baptised'.

1 - manipulate

1: to treat or operate with or as if with the hands or by mechanical means especially in a skillful manner manipulate a pencil manipulate a machine

2a: to manage or utilize skillfully quantify our data and manipulate it statistically— S. L. Payne

b: to control or play upon by artful, unfair, or insidious means especially to one's own advantage being used and manipulated by the knowing men around him— New Republic

3: to change by artful or unfair means so as to serve one's purpose : DOCTOR suspected that the police reports were manipulated— Evelyn G. Cruickshanks

 

2 - manipulation

the action of influencing or controlling someone or something to your advantage, often without anyone knowing it:

 

Maybe this is more appropriate to call it as - "blackmail" or "carrot". And than, this "tool" is sort of manipulation :))

....for good or for bad. Future will bring answer.

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

Quote @Arauna " So the argument that the children are 'victims' of JWs is just another ploy or a 'manipulation' of the truth......."

Everything I wrote above is true. Unfortunately Arauna and Tom do not want to see the truth. 

The JW Org makes people accountable to them, not to God.  

Remember 'You must be a baptised JW to gain salvation', IN THEIR OPINION 

And a person has to get baptised into JW Org, because they DO NOT use the proper words at Baptism.

Now that is manipulation. 

[TrueTomHarley]

The original post about manipulating—who does it, to what degree, and whose is the most serious, brought out some predictable comments on the ‘never is heard a discouraging word’ website. ‘Unity of belief means brainwashing?’ one woman said. She thought not. She suggested that convincing followers to drink poisoned Kool Aid so they could all go to heaven was brainwashing. She suggested that flying your hijacked airplane into the Twin Towers so as to achieve the same goal was also brainwashing. She thought withdrawing from society to live in communes was brainwashing, as well. But she thought that if you live, school, and work in the general community, plus directly visit members of that community one-on-one to discuss your hope with them, plainly making connections in the Book that everyone has (or did) but almost nobody understands, that is not brainwashing. 

How bad can the ‘manipulation’ be, someone else observed, if it results it results in people unselfish, with good family values, respectful of laws, honest, peaceable, and so forth? Why—if people were manipulated to be like that, you wouldn’t have to fear going out at night, you could lighten up on carrying keys for everything under the sun, and in general enjoy much less stress. The old trite saying even came out that ‘given the state of our brains, they can use a good washing.’ It may be trite, but that does not mean that it is untrue. Witnesses have been nothing but benefited by choosing adherence to God’s direction.

Jehovah’s Witnesses make a mistake should they take to heart the cry of their opposers about ‘manipulation.’ Essentially, the cry is no more than the accusation that Witnesses march to the beat of a different drum, which none of them would deny. The manipulation that is detrimental is in just the opposition direction. “We know that we originate with God,” says John, “but the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.” (1 John 5:19) Must “the whole world” not be ‘controlled’ or ‘manipulated’ for that to be the case? “The Devil is misleading the entire inhabited earth,” states Revelation 12:9.

So when the cry is made that “Jehovah’s Witnesses are manipulated!” simply translate it as “Jehovah’s Witnesses believe the Bible” and you will be fine—the two statements are equivalent. Witnesses are no more than the modern counterpart of Joshua, famous for his Declaration of Dependence: “Now if it seems bad to you to serve Jehovah, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve...but as for me and my household, we will serve Jehovah.” (Joshua 24:15)

Furthermore, stick it right back to those who favor independence from God to produce the fine world that their independence has brought them. Don’t settle for shallow answers such as pointing to clever gadgets like the iPad that I am putting to excellent use right now. Don’t settle for the admission that things may be getting worse right now, but the world is about to make a brilliant turnaround. Were that to happen, would it not be akin to a cry of ‘peace and security’ that I have read about somewhere? Learn to apprise the world’s offerings as did the Joker in the art gallery, flipping through paintings and rendering instant judgement: “crap, crap, crap, crap, crap.” In doing so, you will not be far from the Bible’s own conclusion—that there is a generation pure in its own eyes that has not been washed from its own filth. (Proverbs 30:12) 

Don’t walk around all glum as though there is no joy to be had in the present life, for that is plainly not so and JWs do not carry on as though it were. But don’t be ashamed to proclaim the real life of 1 Timothy 6:19, and don’t let modern opponents manipulate you into thinking that this life is the real one. No. This one is the irretrievably broken one set to be replaced when God’s kingdom comes.

Tell your critics to produce evidence of the child sexual abuse and human trafficking epidemic that they have stopped dead in its tracks. Ask them even to show how they have reached their laudable goal of no longer objectifying women—perhaps they will point to the Super Bowl halftime show (2020) as Exhibit A. How about the drug abuse problem that they have vanquished, or the homeless problem? “Why is it you Jehovah’s Witnesses always have to insist that things are getting worse?” one brother was asked by a detractor. “What does that view do for you?” He replied that it helped him to explain why the Doomsday Clock was set at 90 seconds to midnight (the latest revision) and not 10:30 AM.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

Elder Tom you are so funny.  But yes I know it is all just click bate. But I have nothing better to do right now, apart from the washing up from dinner, which can wait a bit longer. I'm bored tom and you are good for a laugh. 

An elder and a story teller. Everything a JW needs to be. You might say that you are an ex elder, but just like police officers, never off duty. 

‘Unity of belief means brainwashing?’ Well if the things believed are lies then yes.  

1975 definitely seemed like brainwashing and can be proven as such by the reports of those that were there in the JW Org at the time. People were convinced to do all manner of things because the 'end was nigh' 

And the blood issue. People were convinced to let loved ones die just because the GB / leaders said so. 

" How bad can the ‘manipulation’ be, someone else observed, if it results it results in people unselfish, with good family values, respectful of laws, honest, peaceable, and so forth? "

Tom you are joking of course. There is just as much child abuse, adultery, fornication, lies, deceit and dishonesty in JW Org, as there is in any other religion. And as in all religions, it stars at the top and works it's way downward.  GB say 'Lies = spiritual warfare'.

Wouldn't it be nice if this were true. " simply translate it as “Jehovah’s Witnesses believe the Bible” " 

Congregants do not even understand the Bible. What congregants understand is the GB's view of the Bible. 

What congregants are told to believe is the GB's interpretation of the Bible, which of course is so often wrong.

Examples : Superior Authorities,  This Generation, 

Jesus prayed to his Father. His prayer was something like this 

'I thank you heavenly Father for giving understanding to these ordinary men and for keeping things hidden from intellectual ones'. But in those times those people were inspired of holy spirit. 

The boots on the ground congregants now are mainly 'uneducated people'. Hence the greater increases in such lands of lower intelligence or least knowledge.. Such people do not understand the deeper things of God's word, so they can be easily manipulated / brainwashed / convinced, to believe things that sound nice at the time. The tickling of people's ears Tom.  You would say it happens in other religions. 

I'll finish on one point.

It is obvious that you have been convinced / manipulated / brainwashed, into believing your GB's viewpoint about loving and serving God. You always write as if God belongs to JW Org. 

Quote :  Witnesses are no more than the modern counterpart of Joshua, famous for his Declaration of Dependence: “Now if it seems bad to you to serve Jehovah, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve...but as for me and my household, we will serve Jehovah.”

You cannot get it into your head that JW Org DOES NOT SERVE GOD PROPERLY. 

That proves manipulation / brainwashing because you are blind to truth.