What Does it Really Mean to Be "No Part of the World"?

[John 12.24to28]

2 minutes ago, boyle said:

I'm afraid your message doesn't convey any meaningful argument. Instead, it seems to be a baseless accusation aimed at Watchtower and GB. Such a language and tone are highly inappropriate and indicate a lack of professionalism and respect for other people's condition. If you have any evidence to support your allegations, please present it in a civil and coherent manner. Otherwise, your message is just an empty and hurtful statement.

This is why you and James are mentally ill. 

 

I hope you have a nice day, @boyle. Bye for now. 😌

[Matthew9969]

On 5/16/2023 at 8:02 PM, AudreyAnnaNana said:

 

Jesus didn't say people couldn't vote. 

 

The Bible says to be in subjection to the governmental authorities. If someone impresses you into service one mile, go two. Many governments utilize the voting process. Putting a ballot in a box is not an act of worship. Choosing one official over another for a position in the government is not an act of worship.

 

The first century governing body said, "abstain from blood, immorality, and what is strangled." There was nothing there about political party cards.

To go along with this, voting wasn't even a concept for the regular jews back in Jesus's time. 

Since  boyle is terribly naive, when a person votes they are not really voting for a person, but what that person believes is right or represents. For example I myself and a more middle of the road conservative, I believe abortion is murder and is wrong so I am going to vote for a candidate who believes the same way and will use their influence to end abortions. Or believe in diplomacy over war, being a good steward of the taxes we pay, etc. 

I'm glad the jw version of the paradise isn't going to happen, I couldn't imagine the dictatorship of the governing body would go over very well with Jesus.

[John 12.24to28]

7 hours ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

I found the transcript!!!

 

Okay, @boyle if you want "evidence" here is the transcript of a "shepherding call" done over Zoom. Some background on the people mentioned in the transcript...Jonah is an elder and was my group overseer in the M- congregation. Mark is another elder in the M- congregation. M- was the congregation I went to during the time my husband was on restraining order and he couldn't be in the same hall as me and the kids at the same time. Earl was the COBE in A- congregation at the time, which was the congregation I was in for about 20 years. My young son requested that I record this shepherding call since he knew the shepherding calls had been bad. During the one prior to this one, the CO yelled at me so loud that the kids heard him even though it was over Zoom and they were in the other room with the door closed watching cartoons. The elders didn't "yell" during this one. On another shepherding call after this one, there were three elders present, and I begged them to let a sister be present for my sake, but they said no.

 

Saturday, February 6, 2021 3:00 pm (transcribed from video recording)

 

Jonah: Hey, there.

 

Mark: Hey, Audrey.

Audrey: Hello.

...

[small talk and prayer]

 

all: Amen.

 

Audrey: Thank you.

 

Jonah: So, um, again, thank you for meeting with us. I know there's been a lot of Zoom meetings and stuff going back and forth so, ah, another meeting...it just takes time out of your day. We appreciate your time. And always understanding that all of these meetings are out of love. Jehovah gives us direction right from the scriptures, and that's why we want to talk to you. It's just that, out of love. You're our sister, and we care about you, about the kids.

 

So, let's, if we can, let's open with a scripture, okay? Let's take a look at Romans chapter 14, and we'll take a look at verse 19. And let me know when you have that.

 

Audrey: Yep.

 

Jonah: Okay. So verse 19 says, "So then, let us pursue the things making for peace, and things that build one another up." And I always love the example of the apostle Paul, promoting peace, things like that. That scripture came out of the October 2016 workbook. And I think we, when you first moved in I recommended that. I was like, "Take a look at it. It's a great article because it's about how to give good comments." And good comments being upbuilding, and things like that.

 

The reason we wanted to talk to you today, Audrey, is because of your comment on Tuesday. (laughs) It was um, it [inaudible] us back, okay?

 

Audrey: It was what?

 

Jonah: Because we're...you're comment on Tuesday kind of set us back a bit. Um, because we were talking about Leviticus 26:27.

 

Audrey: Uh-huh.

 

Jonah: And then your comment during the digging part, you started off in Leviticus, but then ended up in Jeremiah.

 

Audrey: Yeah.

 

Jonah: So we, we um...

 

Audrey: I have it.

 

Jonah: Okay. 

 

Audrey: Ah, that was last week's meeting right?

 

Jonah: Right, this last week. So, the body talked and comments like that, I don't know where they come from, because that one, that was a pretty pointed comment.

 

Audrey: It was from the Watchtower?

 

Jonah: Mark.

 

Mark: It could be from the Watchtower, Audrey, but you know, I was sitting here alone, and sometimes those comments like that, it just felt, it can feel like someone's being attacked, whether it's an individual or the body of elders. It did sound like that to me. It was like, you know, where did that, where did that come from? I mean, everybody's entitled to their opinions, but we don't hear them sometimes if they're really pointed, if we really have a problem, we go to the person or...the comment did sound like it was attacking the body of elders. It did. I mean, in all actuality. From my point of you. And I wasn't sitting with anybody but myself.

 

Jonah: So, as a body, we felt like, "Wow, that was, again, that was really pointed." And not just pointed, Audrey, but it was also...it wasn't relevant with the material we were talking about.

 

Audrey: Do you...

 

Jonah: And I...

 

Audrey: Do you want me to read it again? 

 

Jonah: What's...Yeah. If you have it written down.

 

Audrey: Because I'm not that good with commenting like straight out, so I usually write it down ahead of time, and I'll cut and paste it from the Watchtower. Um, so it was actually from the notes for Leviticus 26. It was one of the references in the notes from the w.o.l. um, for that verse? On, ah, on the Sabbath Law? But, anyway, it said: "In regard to God's Sabbath Law in Leviticus 26, Jeremiah denounced the God-dishonoring actions of the elders and religious leaders. Even when persecuted, Jeremiah kept preaching. Was this wise? Wouldn't it have been safer from him to be quiet and go along with things waiting to see the outcome? By speaking up, Jeremiah was taking the course of safety. He lived. The disobedient elders and religious leaders were destroyed. Today we imitate Jeremiah by obeying Jehovah and speaking out boldly against wickedness." And I think the reference, it's in, um, I have to click it. It would have been the reference that you can find for verse 2, but in the w-o-l, but not in the one on the app, but on the online one?

 

Jonah: And what article does that take you to?

 

Audrey: Um, it'll take me a second. Hold on. I'm slow, slow with my tablet. So, on w-o-l, Leviticus 26...

 

Mark: So my question to you, and you haven't even put the references in, and it was referenced, it just seems like, a lot of the comments are directed to this body, would you agree to that?

 

Audrey: Um, when I comment, like, the question, um, it says on the gems is, "What spiritual gems from this week's Bible reading would you like to share regarding Jehovah, the field ministry, or something else?" So before I do my Bible reading for the week, I pray to Jehovah about what I need, first of all, you know, first of all if there's something I need, that I can see if from the Bible reading, that encourages me, or helps me, or disciplines me, or whatever. And then I also pray if there's anything that I can share that's encouraging to others. But sometimes the thing that I'm sharing is something that was encouraging to me.

 

Mark: Right, so how would that be encouraging for anybody else? Taking it away from you, how would that encourage anybody else?

 

Audrey: Because...The question here says, "What spiritual gems would you like to share regarding your reading," though. Since it was encouraging, I shared it.

 

Here is the Watchtower article mentioned in the comment in question during the transcript of the shepherding call..

 

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1964846?q=jeremiah+course+safety&p=par

 

Jesus said that when we're "no part of the world" the world would hate us. (The "world" or "worldly" doesn't mean "non-JWs"...it really means "Satan's hateful way of dealing with things".) Sometimes it's the "worldly" elements in the congregation that are the worst haters. Jehovah will fix it soon, just like He did in Jeremiah's day.🙂

 

[John 12.24to28]

(Just a note, the screenshots are from today - the "shepherding call" was from a couple of years ago and the reference material on the w-o-l has changed, so the same article isn't there linked for the verse. But I showed the same article I was talking about that used to be there, as well as how another different article from the same year that is still linked to another verse near there, just to show the point - that the guys got mad about a comment from their own Watchtower material.)

[John 12.24to28]

"I have given your word to them, but the world has hated them, because they are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world. I do not request that you take them out of the world, but that you watch over them because of the wicked one.  They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world."

 

(John 17:14-16)

 

 

 

Some information on "the world" from Strong's Concordance showing that "the world" does not mean specifically "politics" in the original language. The opposite of being "worldly" is not being "neutral". The opposite of being "worldly" is being "godly" or "positive towards the cause of the Christ" (the cause of the Christ is Love)...

 

 

https://biblehub.com/greek/2889.htm

 

2889. kosmos ►

Strong's Concordance

kosmos: order, the world

Original Word: κόσμος, ου, ὁ

Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine

Transliteration: kosmos

Phonetic Spelling: (kos'-mos)

Definition: order, the world

Usage: the world, universe; worldly affairs; the inhabitants of the world; adornment.

HELPS Word-studies

2889 kósmos (literally, "something ordered") – properly, an "ordered system" (like the universe, creation); the world.

[The English term "cosmetic" is derived from 2889 /kósmos, i.e. the order ("ensemble") used of treating the face as a whole.

 

6. "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ" (cf. Winer's Grammar, 26): John 7:7; John 14:27 (); ; 1 Corinthians 1:21; 1 Corinthians 6:2; 1 Corinthians 11:32; 2 Corinthians 7:10; James 1:27; 1 Peter 5:9; 2 Peter 1:4; 2 Peter 2:20; 1 John 3:1, 13; 1 John 4:5; 1 John 5:19; of the aggregate of ungodly and wicked men in O. T. times, Hebrews 11:38; in Noah's time, ibid. 7; with οὗτος added, Ephesians 2:2 (on which see αἰών, 3); εἶναι ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου and ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου τούτου (see εἰμί, V. 3rd.), John 8:23; John 15:19; John 17:14, 16; 1 John 4:5; λαλεῖν ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου, to speak in accordance with the world's character and mode of thinking, 1 John 4:5; ὁ ἄρχων τοῦ κόσμου τούτου, i. e. the devil, John 12:31; John 14:30; John 16:11; ὁ ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ he that is operative in the world (also of the devil), 1 John 4:4; τό πνεῦμα τοῦ κόσμου 1 Corinthians 2:12; ἡ σοφία τοῦ κόσμου τούτου, 1 Corinthians 1:20 (here G L T Tr WH omit τούτου); 1 Corinthians 3:19. (τά στοιχεῖα τοῦ κόσμου, Galatians 4:3; Colossians 2:8, 20 (see 5 above, and στοιχεῖον, 3 and 4).)

[John 12.24to28]

35 minutes ago, boyle said:

desperation

 

 

"Honest words are not painful! 

But what benefit can be found in your reproof? 

Are you scheming to reprove my words, 

A desperate man’s sayings, which the wind blows away?  

You would also cast lots over an orphan 

And sell your own friend!"

 

(Job 6:25-27)

 

There have been trialsome times when I have had "desperate sayings", but that is not how I feel at present.

 

Would you consider yourself a bit of a desperado, @boyle? 

 

"You've been out ridin' fences for so long now. 

Oh, you're a hard one, but I know that you got your reasons...

It may be rainin', but there's a rainbow above you."

 

You can let Jehovah love you.🥰

 

 

[John 12.24to28]

27 minutes ago, boyle said:

In fact, your kind, are a dime a dozen.

 

That's nice of you to say I'm kind.☺️

 

(Speaking of dimes, didn't Joan Jett sing "Put another dime in the jukebox baby!")

 

I like music. Do you like music, @boyle?

 

Here are three songs that use the word "world" in an easy to understand way, just like how Jesus used the word "world" in an easy to understand way. He said even a kid could understand the truth, so it's not surprising that popular songs would capture the appropriate utilization of the word 

 

Quotes from some of the lyrics...

 

"It's all over and I'm standing pretty

In this dust that was a city

If I could find a souvenir

Just to prove the world was here..."

 

The "world" that was destroyed in the song wasn't just politicians. It was a way of life. "World" has to do with a particular way of life.

 

 

 

It's a wild world right now.

 

"But just remember there's a lot of bad and beware

Oh baby baby it's a wild world

And it's hard to get by just upon a smile..."

 

 

 

The word "world" here is synonymous with badness. Satan's world is bad.

 

Here's another one...

 

"It's hard to beat the system

When we're standing at a distance

So we keep waiting on (waiting)

Waiting on the world to change..."

 

 

 

Here "world" is the wicked system of things. We too are waiting on the world to change, with God's kingdom to rule in peace and love.

 

Jesus' words "they are no part of the world" are not complicated. Even a kid can understand what they mean. The Pharisees and scribes like to make up rules and make things complicated. Jesus wasn't making up a new rule or a code of conduct in that phrase. He already told us what the rule was: "You must love one another, as I have loved you, love one another."💞

[John 12.24to28]

22 minutes ago, boyle said:

I'm sorry to say that you are not unique or exceptional.

 

Oh, don't be sorry about that. I don't know why you got your hopes up. I already knew those things - maybe your expectations were too high? I told you am low and like a kid inside. You can't expect too much from somebody like that, @boyle, come on.😆

[John 12.24to28]

9 minutes ago, boyle said:

So, keep your fake love nonsense to those who care.

 

Oh, @boyle, you pretend to be such a grumpy bear, but I know you really have a heart.💝

 

Good night, my dear brother! I hope you rest well when you go to sleep.🌷😌

[John 12.24to28]

Oh, @boyle, the world is a dark place, and I can see you are getting confused in the darkness... Why don't you have a pocket full of sunshine with breakfast?☺️My kids are happy and they like to sing...

 

 

"Anyone dwelling in the secret place of the Most High 

Will lodge under the shadow of the Almighty. 

I will say to Jehovah: “You are my refuge and my stronghold, 

My God in whom I trust."

 

(Psalm 91:1,2)

 

I hope you enjoy your breakfast, @boyle!☺️

[John 12.24to28]

On 5/18/2023 at 11:23 AM, AudreyAnnaNana said:

Earl was the COBE in A- congregation at the time, which was the congregation I was in for about 20 years.

 

"These are the swarming creatures of the earth that are unclean to you..."

 

 

"Do not make yourselves loathsome by means of any swarming creature, and do not defile yourselves and become unclean by them."

 

On 5/18/2023 at 11:23 AM, AudreyAnnaNana said:

Audrey: Not really. I've talked to my friends specifically about Earl hurting me, and I've had Ruthanne ask me how things went on a call specifically. But...

 

Mark: Yeah.

 

Audrey: I mean, I can print off for you what I sent to her if you want. I don't talk bad about the elders. If there's someone doing something bad, I will report it to someone. So, if that someone is on the elder body, if that someone is at Bethel, if that someone is a circuit overseer, I'm going to, I mean, I'm going to report to the authorities. I do have friends, so when I have talked to people like Judy before, Judy knew me when I was in Auburn, back before when I first came in the truth. Um, and she knew some of the details about Earl and Mary Jo in my relationship with them before. So with people who knew me before ask me how Earl and Mary Jo are, or if they ask me something about that and I say, no, I'm not, we had something sketchy happen, um, you know.

 

On 5/18/2023 at 11:23 AM, AudreyAnnaNana said:

Audrey: So, I guess some of the people at the meeting, like you said, are aware of the situation. They're aware that the brother currently serving as the HLC overseer in the area has physically struck me and some things which would be considered sexual abuse by people who work for, um, DHS, people are aware of that. Including my children, and several other people in the congregation? So, by commenting and saying that, anyone who's an elder who is wicked, Jehovah will take care of it, and that's related to the scriptures, and it's quoted from an article in the Watchtower. I don't find that to be attacking the body of elders. I find that to be honest words from Jehovah. Um, his foundation of his throne is on justice. And so to comment on justice in the congregation...the purpose of commenting in the congregation isn't just to encourage one another. That's part of it. But it's also to praise Jehovah, the God of truth and justice. So, I feel that that comment was praising Jehovah in a manner in harmony with his will.

 

 

(I sent a copy of the transcript to the rest of the circuit via email but since you lurk on here I didn't think you would need a copy... @Just sayin)

 

On 5/18/2023 at 12:02 PM, AudreyAnnaNana said:

(During the time period of the above shepherding call, Earl and Mary Jo and my husband repeatedly called DHHS and bore false witness against me so they could try to get custody of my children. It was a terrifying time, because the elders were backing the people hurting my family. Ruthanne, mentioned in the transcript, was a sister in M- congregation, and she and two other members of M- helped me since the elders wouldn't. The A- elders let Earl remain HLC coordinator and COBE of the A- congregation until he stepped down later of his own accord. Even though my children were baptized members of the congregation and witnesses to many of the events, the elders wouldn't accept their testimony.)

 

(Instead of lurking and trying to cause trouble in my family still, why don't you just come out of the darkness and repent? If you are going to lurk on here and read everything I post and report it back to others, why don't you just talk to me instead of hiding? @Just sayin You know that disfellowshipping of me was bogus anyway - and you stood in the way of having justice done by avoiding the counsel of the Christ as regards talking the matter over - you hid. Why do you keep hiding? Jehovah can see you anyway.)

 

 

[John 12.24to28]