What Does it Really Mean to Be "No Part of the World"?

[John 12.24to28]

16 hours ago, redHarmonioussparrow said:

https://rsc.byu.edu/vol-6-no-1-2005/apostolic-fathers-witnesses-early-christian-apostasy

 

 

 

There were apostates from true Christianity in the first century and there are apostates from true Christianity today. Such ones have become "part of the world" by means of attempting to mix false teachings with the truth.

 

@redHarmonioussparrow...as regards the article you linked...

 

Those Christians of old were among the apostates John warned about because they were teaching false doctrines.

 

Here are some quotes from the article you linked regarding these men...

 

Regarding Ignatius: "Ignatius himself was still claiming revelation, insisting that the Spirit was whispering to him concerning the problems within the Church." (from the above article)

 

God's Word said such "revelations" would cease. The "voices" Ignatius was hearing were not holy. 

 

"For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.  And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps disguising himself as an angel of light. It is therefore nothing extraordinary if his ministers also keep disguising themselves as ministers of righteousness. But their end will be according to their works."

 

(2 Corinthians 11:13,14)

 

"I am amazed that you are so quickly turning away from the One who called you with Christ’s undeserved kindness to another sort of good news. Not that there is another good news; but there are certain ones who are causing you trouble and wanting to distort the good news about the Christ. However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to you as good news something beyond the good news we declared to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, I now say again, Whoever is declaring to you as good news something beyond what you accepted, let him be accursed."

 

(Galatians 1:6-9)

 

Regarding Polycarp: "...perhaps even ordained Polycarp, who led the church in Smyrna for over forty years and was considered an important link in the early apostolic tradition." (from the above article)

 

The faithful apostles followed Jesus' example of organizing the preaching work and helping the disciples gather together. The faithful apostles also had gifts of the spirit and were able to do some miraculous works. The Bible shows such gifts would end with the apostles.

 

"Love never fails. But if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away with; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away with."

 

(1 Corinthians 13:8)

 

The word "ordained" was not part of the way Jesus or the faithful apostles did things. The words "ordained" and "apostolic tradition" are throwbacks to the Pharisaical way of doing things that Jesus came to do away with. "Pharisaical tradition" would be a more accurate way of describing what Polycarp encouraged.

 

The apostles had learned from Jesus how to act like older brothers, showing love for others in the congregation. Asking certain mature brothers to take the lead in teaching in the congregation is not the same as making a clergy class that is exalted over others with special titles. The words "overseer" and "minister" that are sometimes translated "deacon" and "bishop" and other such things were not originally "titles", just like the word "elder" wasn't a title, it was a role like in the family.

 

Regarding Clement: "...ordained by the Apostles to a position of authority in the Roman church..." (from the above article)

 

Again, the business of "ordaining" and "position of authority" is opposed to what the Christ said...

 

"But you, do not you be called Rabbi, for one is your Teacher, and all of you are brothers. Moreover, do not call anyone your father on earth, for one is your Father, the heavenly One.  Neither be called leaders, for your Leader is one, the Christ."

 

(Matthew 23:8-10)

 

"But he said to them: “The kings of the nations lord it over them, and those having authority over them are called Benefactors.  You, though, are not to be that way. But let the one who is the greatest among you become as the youngest, and the one taking the lead as the one ministering."

 

(Luke 22:25-26)

 

Regarding The Shepherd of Hermas: "One final writing that will be noted here is the Shepherd of Hermas. This was an important text to the Christian community in Rome in the late first or early second century. Authorship is still debated, but there is an interesting possibility that it was written by the Hermas of the Roman church mentioned by Paul in Romans 16:4.[18] It is perhaps one of the greatest witnesses to the state of the church during this period. It attests to the continuation of visions, prophecy, and direct revelation in the early church and also adds to the current discussion of internal crises." (from the above article)

 

The Shepherd of Hermas" is a clearly apostate book that gives evidence certain Christians of the day were embracing the teachings of demons and teaching such things in the Christian congregation.

 

It is the same today. Many who claim to be among God's name people embrace apostate teachings and traditions. The misapplication of Daniel chapter 4 to get to "1914" is based on numerology. The exaltation of the "Faithful and Discreet slave" and "appointed elders" is based on Pharisaical traditions and worship of men ahead of God. To embrace such teachings is to embrace apostasy from God's Word and is being part of the world.

[John 12.24to28]

18 minutes ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

The apostles had learned from Jesus how to act like older brothers, showing love for others in the congregation. Asking certain mature brothers to take the lead in teaching in the congregation is not the same as making a clergy class that is exalted over others with special titles. The words "overseer" and "minister" that are sometimes translated "deacon" and "bishop" and other such things were not originally "titles", just like the word "elder" wasn't a title, it was a role like in the family.

 

Regarding Clement: "...ordained by the Apostles to a position of authority in the Roman church..." (from the above article)

 

Again, the business of "ordaining" and "position of authority" is opposed to what the Christ said...

 

"But you, do not you be called Rabbi, for one is your Teacher, and all of you are brothers. Moreover, do not call anyone your father on earth, for one is your Father, the heavenly One.  Neither be called leaders, for your Leader is one, the Christ."

 

(Matthew 23:8-10)

 

"But he said to them: “The kings of the nations lord it over them, and those having authority over them are called Benefactors.  You, though, are not to be that way. But let the one who is the greatest among you become as the youngest, and the one taking the lead as the one ministering."

 

(Luke 22:25-26)

 

What does an "elder brother" really look like? There are some in the organization bearing God's name. Here are some "elder brothers" that are not currently part of the organization bearing God's name...examples of what an "elder" looks like, "older brothers" who shepherd the flock...

 

Terry Vanderhoven on jehovahs-witness.com

"larchington" on ex jw reddit

Tim Stier in the Catholic religion

Bill Bowan from silentlambs

Mark O'Donnell on twitter

"Kevin McFree" on youtube

 

The above mentioned men are not "ordained" to show love. They just do it. They act like older brothers in the sense that Jesus meant. They seek to comfort God's sheep. The above mentioned men may not be adhering to all of what the Bible teaches at present - those things can be refined in time - but their examples in tirelessly working to shepherd in a way that seeks to upbuild and comfort God's sheep is truly worthy of imitation. It is their Love that identifies them.

[JoeJohn]

Arius becomes an apostate

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arius

 The Bible warns about people like Arius (c. AD 250—336), a Christian priest from Alexandria, Egypt, who was trained at Antioch in the early fourth century. About AD 318, Arius accused Bishop Alexander of Alexandria of subscribing to Sabellianism, a false teaching that asserted that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were merely roles or modes assumed by God at various times. Arius was determined to emphasize the oneness of God; however, he went too far in his teaching of God’s nature. Arius denied the Trinity and introduced what appeared on the surface to be an inconsequential difference between the Father and Son.

Can ex-witnesses and the disfellowshiped be considered part of this category if they deny the teachings of Christ by subverting them?

[Pudgy]

Dilbert rises from his on set director’s chair and hands scripts to both boyle, and Audrey with a scowl. If they can pull this off they will BOTH get Acadamy Awards ….

Paul: (Sighs) Well, SpongeBob, here we are, chained to this wall in a Roman dungeon. I never thought my missionary journeys would lead to this.

SpongeBob: (Cheerfully) Oh, don't worry, Paul! We'll find a way out of this, I'm sure of it! Plus, being chained to a wall isn't so bad. It's like a really extreme game of "Musical Chairs"!

Paul: (Chuckles) I suppose you have a point, SpongeBob. You always see the bright side of things, even in the darkest situations. But how did you end up here, anyway?

SpongeBob: (Pauses) Well, you know how I love jellyfishing, right? I accidentally took a wrong turn and ended up in the Roman Colosseum. I thought it was a new jellyfish convention! Next thing I knew, I was captured and brought here.

Paul: (Laughs) Oh, SpongeBob, you never cease to amaze me. Your enthusiasm is truly infectious, even in the face of danger. So, tell me, what brings you to Rome?

SpongeBob: (Excitedly) Oh, I was on a mission to spread joy and laughter! I heard there were some gloomy Romans who needed a pick-me-up, and who better to bring smiles than SpongeBob SquarePants?

Paul: (Smiling) Well, SpongeBob, I believe you've certainly achieved your goal. I'm surrounded by darkness, but your positive energy radiates through it all. It's like having a little piece of Bikini Bottom, your underwater home, here in this dungeon.

Paul: (Thoughtful) Absolutely, SpongeBob! Laughter and forgiveness are universal languages that can break down walls, both figuratively and literally. Together, we can show them a different way, even from this dimly lit cell.

SpongeBob: (Nods) We'll be a dynamic duo, Paul! The Apostle of Joy and the Porous Proclaimer!
 

[John 12.24to28]

1 hour ago, redHarmonioussparrow said:

God’s view of social opinions?

 

God made gravity.

 

A person may have an opinion that there is no such thing as gravity, but if that person walks off the edge of a high place, they will come face to face with the reality that they were of the opinion didn't exist.

 

Reality has a way of checking opinions. You reap what you sow. Regardless of your opinion.

 

"Do not be misled: God is not one to be mocked. For whatever a person is sowing, this he will also reap; because the one sowing with a view to his flesh will reap corruption from his flesh, but the one sowing with a view to the spirit will reap everlasting life from the spirit.  So let us not give up in doing what is fine, for in due time we will reap if we do not tire out.  So, then, as long as we have the opportunity, let us work what is good toward all, but especially toward those related to us in the faith."

 

(Galatians 6:7-10)

 

What does the "disfellowshipping doctrine" sow? What does it reap?

 

The fruits of disfellowshipping are rotten. They reflect the way of Satan's world of hate and isolation and cruelty. They break up families, lead some people to doubt God's existence and hate God's name. Regardless of what some Pharisees want to teach, Jesus is coming to remove such teachings. He will not be silent on the matter. Everyone will know how Jehovah really feels about the false doctrines in the organization. Jesus will have no regard for foolish opinions or intellectual definitions. He will remove all weedy traditions and he will shed light on the Reality of Jehovah's Love and His Ways. Jehovah's Name will be sanctified. Praise Jehovah.

 

A true Christian who doesn't have "social action" is like an engaged couple who never follows through on the vows. Christian love is shown by chaste love in action socially.

 

 

[John 12.24to28]

1 hour ago, Pudgy said:

Dilbert rises from his on set director’s chair and hands scripts to both boyle, and Audrey with a scowl. If they can pull this off they will BOTH get Acadamy Awards ….

Paul: (Sighs) Well, SpongeBob, here we are, chained to this wall in a Roman dungeon. I never thought my missionary journeys would lead to this.

SpongeBob: (Cheerfully) Oh, don't worry, Paul! We'll find a way out of this, I'm sure of it! Plus, being chained to a wall isn't so bad. It's like a really extreme game of "Musical Chairs"!

Paul: (Chuckles) I suppose you have a point, SpongeBob. You always see the bright side of things, even in the darkest situations. But how did you end up here, anyway?

SpongeBob: (Pauses) Well, you know how I love jellyfishing, right? I accidentally took a wrong turn and ended up in the Roman Colosseum. I thought it was a new jellyfish convention! Next thing I knew, I was captured and brought here.

Paul: (Laughs) Oh, SpongeBob, you never cease to amaze me. Your enthusiasm is truly infectious, even in the face of danger. So, tell me, what brings you to Rome?

SpongeBob: (Excitedly) Oh, I was on a mission to spread joy and laughter! I heard there were some gloomy Romans who needed a pick-me-up, and who better to bring smiles than SpongeBob SquarePants?

Paul: (Smiling) Well, SpongeBob, I believe you've certainly achieved your goal. I'm surrounded by darkness, but your positive energy radiates through it all. It's like having a little piece of Bikini Bottom, your underwater home, here in this dungeon.

Paul: (Thoughtful) Absolutely, SpongeBob! Laughter and forgiveness are universal languages that can break down walls, both figuratively and literally. Together, we can show them a different way, even from this dimly lit cell.

SpongeBob: (Nods) We'll be a dynamic duo, Paul! The Apostle of Joy and the Porous Proclaimer!
 

 

 

@PudgyThe little fish said "Stay awake" 😉 - The thing about extreme musical chairs in detention centers...we can start the music and singing whenever we want no matter how dark it appears at present. The light comes from the inside where no chains can reach - our hearts 💖 reflecting Jehovah's love cannot be bound, and we all have a heart made in God's image capable of reflecting His light...Jehovah has a way of breaking the outside chains at His appointed time. The "earthquake" is coming, the bonds will be broken, we're just waiting for it and we "keep on swimming singing"☺️...

 

"Well, when her masters saw that their hope of profit was gone, they seized Paul and Silas and dragged them into the marketplace to the rulers.  Leading them up to the civil magistrates, they said: “These men are disturbing our city very much. They are Jews,  and they are proclaiming customs that it is not lawful for us to adopt or practice, seeing that we are Romans.”  And the crowd rose up together against them, and the civil magistrates, after tearing the garments off them, gave the command to beat them with rods.  After they had inflicted many blows on them, they threw them into prison and ordered the jailer to guard them securely."

 

"Because he got such an order, he threw them into the inner prison and fastened their feet in the stocks. But about the middle of the night, Paul and Silas were praying and praising God with song, and the prisoners were listening to them.  Suddenly a great earthquake occurred, so that the foundations of the jail were shaken. Moreover, all the doors were instantly opened, and everyone’s bonds came loose."

 

"When the jailer woke up and saw that the prison doors were open, he drew his sword and was about to kill himself, assuming that the prisoners had escaped.  But Paul called out with a loud voice: “Do not hurt yourself, for we are all here!”  So he asked for lights and rushed in, and seized with trembling, he fell down before Paul and Silas.  He brought them outside and said: “Sirs, what must I do to get saved?”  They said: “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will get saved, you and your household.”  Then they spoke the word of Jehovah to him together with all those in his house.  And he took them along in that hour of the night and washed their wounds. Then he and his entire household were baptized without delay.  He brought them into his house and set a table before them, and he rejoiced greatly with all his household now that he had believed in God."

 

"When it became day, the civil magistrates sent the constables to say: “Release those men.”  The jailer reported their words to Paul: “The civil magistrates have sent men to have you two released. So come out now and go in peace.”  But Paul said to them: “They flogged us publicly, uncondemned, though we are Romans, and threw us into prison. Are they now throwing us out secretly? No, indeed! Let them come themselves and escort us out.”  The constables reported these words to the civil magistrates. These grew fearful when they heard that the men were Romans.  So they came and pleaded with them, and after escorting them out, they requested them to depart from the city.  But they came out of the prison and went to the home of Lydʹi·a; and when they saw the brothers, they encouraged them and departed."

 

(Acts chapter 16)

 

 

[John 12.24to28]

5 minutes ago, redHarmonioussparrow said:

 

Written Hebrew looks so lovely, doesn't it, almost like musical notes on a page! The essence of the message is even more lovely.🥰

 

2 hours ago, Pudgy said:

SpongeBob: (Excitedly) Oh, I was on a mission to spread joy and laughter! I heard there were some gloomy Romans who needed a pick-me-up, and who better to bring smiles than SpongeBob SquarePants?

Paul: (Smiling) Well, SpongeBob, I believe you've certainly achieved your goal. I'm surrounded by darkness, but your positive energy radiates through it all.
 

 

Didn't Paul say "learn from watching me" or was that Gideon? Yeah, I think what Paul said was more "become imitators of me." 

 

(I've seen the comic strips...Somebody's been in the dungeon spreading joy and laughter and singing a lot longer than I have...)

 

 

🙂🌷

[John 12.24to28]

1 hour ago, redHarmonioussparrow said:

 

 

 

"May I experience your loyal love, O Jehovah, 

Your salvation in harmony with your promise...

I am a friend of all who fear you 

And of those who keep your orders."

 

(Psalm 119:41,63) 

 

People who show love are keeping Jehovah's most important order.💝 Such ones can be found in many places...

 

 

 

[John 12.24to28]

9 hours ago, redHarmonioussparrow said:

• He was facing the many troubles that were to come His way in the next few days, but we know that His love for us has not then nor ever, been Misplaced, for the text says He loved them unto the end. One of the greatest tragedies in Christianity today is that Christians have misplaced their love for God.

https://www.foi.org/2020/09/04/can-we-enjoy-the-work-of-a-believer-turned-apostate/

 

 

 

"He answered: “I was not sent to anyone except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”"

 

(Matthew 15:24)

 

"And both the Pharisees and the scribes kept muttering: “This man welcomes sinners and eats with them.”  Then he told them this illustration, saying:  “What man among you with 100 sheep, on losing one of them, will not leave the 99 behind in the wilderness and go after the lost one until he finds it?  And when he has found it, he puts it on his shoulders and rejoices.  And when he gets home, he calls his friends and his neighbors together, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep that was lost.’"

 

(Luke 15:2-6)  

 

"This was in the sight of God, in whom he had faith, who makes the dead alive and calls the things that are not as though they are."

 

(Romans 4:17)

 

"“‘For this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: “Here I am, and I myself will search for my sheep, and I will care for them.  I will care for my sheep like a shepherd who has found his scattered sheep and is feeding them. I will rescue them from all the places where they were scattered in the day of clouds and thick gloom.  I will bring them out from the peoples and collect them together from the lands and bring them into their land and feed them on the mountains of Israel, by the streams and by all the dwelling places of the land.  In a good pasture I will feed them, and the land where they graze will be on Israel’s high mountains. They will lie down there in a good grazing land, and they will feed on choice pastures on the mountains of Israel.” “‘“I myself will feed my sheep, and I myself will make them lie down,” declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah.  “The lost one I will search for, the stray I will bring back, the injured I will bandage, and the weak I will strengthen; but the fat one and the strong one I will annihilate. I will feed that one with judgment.”""

 

(Ezekiel 34:11-16)

 

"For the Son of man came to seek and to save what was lost.”

 

(Luke 19:10)

 

"Still, I now urge you to take courage, for not one of you will be lost..."

 

(Acts 27:22)

 

"Looking at them intently, Jesus said to them: “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”"

 

(Matthew 19:26)

[John 12.24to28]

9 hours ago, redHarmonioussparrow said:

John 15 English Standard Version

I Am the True Vine

15 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. ² Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit. ³ Already you are clean because of the word that I have spoken to you.

 

 

 

"In reply he said to him, ‘Master, leave it alone for one more year until I dig around it and put on manure. If it produces fruit in the future, well and good..."

 

(Luke 13:8,9)

 

"Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for Jehovah can make him stand."

 

(Romans 14:4)

 

"...the fruitage of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith,  mildness, self-control..."

 

(Galatians 5:22)

 

"...there is no man who does not sin..."

 

(2 Chronicles 6:36)

 

"If anyone catches sight of his brother committing a sin that does not incur death, he will ask, and God will give life to him, yes, to those not committing sin that incurs death. There is a sin that does incur death. It is concerning that sin that I do not tell him to make request.  All unrighteousness is sin, and yet there is a sin that does not incur death."

 

(1 John 5:16,17)

 

"pray for one another...A righteous man’s supplication has a powerful effect."

 

(James 5:16)

 

"...be vigilant with a view to prayers.  Above all things, have intense love for one another, because love covers a multitude of sins."

 

(1 Peter 4:7,8)

 

"“O Jehovah my God, please, let this child’s life come back into him.”  Jehovah listened to E·liʹjah’s request, and the life of the child came back into him, and he revived."

 

(1 Kings 17:21,22)

 

"This was in the sight of God, in whom he had faith, who makes the dead alive and calls the things that are not as though they are.  Although beyond hope, yet based on hope, he had faith...because of the promise of God, he did not waver in a lack of faith; but he became powerful by his faith, giving God glory  and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to do."

 

(Romans 4:17-21)

 

"Just as you do not know how the spirit operates in the bones of the child inside a pregnant woman, so you do not know the work of the true God, who does all things."

 

(Ecclesiastes 11:5)

 

"He had me pass all around them, and I saw that there were very many bones lying in the valley plain, and they were very dry.  He asked me: “Son of man, can these bones come to life?” To that I said: “Sovereign Lord Jehovah, you are the one who knows.”  So he said to me: “Prophesy over these bones, and say to them, ‘You dry bones, hear the word of Jehovah: “‘This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says to these bones: “I will cause breath to enter you, and you will come to life.  I will put sinews and flesh on you, and I will cover you with skin and put breath in you, and you will come to life; and you will have to know that I am Jehovah.”’” Then I prophesied just as I had been commanded. As soon as I prophesied, there was a noise, a rattling sound, and the bones began to come together, bone to bone.  Then I saw sinews and flesh come on them, and skin covered over them. But there was still no breath in them. He then said to me: “Prophesy to the wind. Prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: “From the four winds come in, O wind, and blow upon these people who were killed, so that they may come to life.”’” So I prophesied just as he commanded me, and breath came into them, and they began to live and to stand on their feet, an extremely large army. Then he said to me: “Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. Here they are saying, ‘Our bones are dry, and our hope has perished. We are completely cut off.’  So prophesy and say to them, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: “I will open your graves and raise you up from your graves, my people, and bring you to the land of Israel.  And you will have to know that I am Jehovah when I open your graves and when I raise you up out of your graves, O my people.”’  ‘I will put my spirit in you and you will come to life, and I will settle you on your land; and you will have to know that I myself, Jehovah, have spoken and I have done it,’ declares Jehovah.”""

 

(Ezekiel 37:2-14)

[John 12.24to28]

49 minutes ago, redHarmonioussparrow said:

"The Sea of Galilee and the Dead Sea are made of the same water. It flows down, clean and cool, from the heights of Herman and the roots of the cedars of Lebanon. the Sea of Galilee makes beauty of it, the Sea of Galilee has an outlet. It gets to give. It gathers in its riches that it may pour them out again to fertilize the Jordan plain. But the Dead Sea with the same water makes horror. For the Dead Sea has no outlet. It gets to keep." ~ Harry Emerson Fosdick

 

 

"He cried out to Jehovah, and Jehovah directed him to a tree. When he threw it into the water, the water became sweet."

 

(Exodus 15:25)

 

"In time the men of the city said to E·liʹsha: “My master can see that the city is well-situated; but the water is bad, and the land is barren.”  At that he said: “Bring me a small new bowl and put salt in it.” So they brought it to him.  Then he went out to the source of the water and threw salt into it and said: “This is what Jehovah says, ‘I have healed this water. No more will it cause death or barrenness.’”  And the water has been healed down to this day, according to the word spoken by E·liʹsha."

 

(2 Kings 2:19-22)

 

"Let justice flow down like waters, And righteousness like an ever-flowing stream."

 

(Amos 5:24)

 

"The seawater will be healed, and everything will live wherever the stream goes."

 

(Ezekiel 47:9)

 

"Jesus stood up and he called out: “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink.  Whoever puts faith in me, just as the scripture has said: ‘From deep within him streams of living water will flow.’"

 

(John 7:37,38)

 

"And the spirit and the bride keep on saying, “Come!” and let anyone hearing say, “Come!” and let anyone thirsting come; let anyone who wishes take life’s water free."

 

(Revelation 22:17)

[Pudgy]

And of course, “You can drive a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink.”

Unlike people looking into the barrel of a shotgun.

…. and of course, there are others.

1. "You can give a man a fishing rod, but you can't make him bait a hook with a jelly donut."
2. "You can put a cat in a tuxedo, but you can't make it do the Charleston."
3. "You can give a teenager a book, but you can't make them turn off TikTok and read it."
4. "You can teach a parrot to swear, but you can't make it say 'I love you' to your mother-in-law."
5. "You can give a squirrel a piano, but you can't make it play anything other than 'Chopsticks'."