Pennsylvania Court VS Ivy Hill Congregation of JWs, 2024

[Srecko Sostar]

JWs insist, for a very long time, on being treated as "clergy" before the courts. Or in a some wider context known only to WTJWorg' "creators of future". Reference has already been made in previous CSA cases to the Catholic clergy, and their (JWs) status as a clergy inside JWs Congregations.

"Catholic type of confession" is in a form in which one priest and one person who "confesses his sin" have a special relationship.

Of course, this is nothing like the JWs elders who examine the "sinner" in a three-member commission ( Judicial Committee) and determine the "guilt or innocence" of the sinner.

As far as can be seen, the purpose of the "Catholic confession" is to forgive the sinner and to appease him and lead him on the right path without "sanction" of excommunication.
With "JWs confession" one tries to determine whether there is guilt on the part of the one who is "confessing".
Different forms of "confessions" are here in question and different methods and processes through which the "sinner" is guided.

Also, there is a huge difference between becoming a "priest" in the Catholic Church and becoming an "elder" in the JWs Church.
If JWs want to be like the "clergy" in the Catholic Church, judging by their demands to be treated in court the same as the Catholic clergy, then we wonder; do JWs elders want to go through the same requirements as candidates for the Catholic Priesthood? To finish college, not to get married and the like?

Controversial demands of JWs will mean controversial solutions in WTJWorg theology and practice. It remains to be seen how the courts will view and resolve this, and how the WTJWorg Administration (read, GB) will adapt to it.

Articles:

Pa. courts weigh whether Jehovah's Witnesses elders must report confessed child abuse

- https://pennrecord.com/stories/654791353-pa-courts-weigh-whether-jehovah-s-witnesses-elders-must-report-confessed-child-abuse

PROCEDURE-COORDINATE JURISDICTION RULE-JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES

- https://www.riederstravis.com/procedure-coordinate-jurisdiction-rule-jehovahs-witnesses/

7 Steps to Become a Catholic Priest

- https://catholicworldmission.org/how-to-become-a-priest/

 

 

 

[George88]

29 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

JWs insist, for a very long time, on being treated as "clergy" before the courts.

This is completely inaccurate. The determination is made by "secular" courts, not the Watchtower, depending on the court. By requesting special treatment as an apostate, you would be asking the courts to treat the Watchtower differently.

33 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

"Catholic type of confession" is in a form in which one priest and one person who "confesses his sin" have a special relationship.

Of course, this is nothing like the JWs elders who examine the "sinner" in a three-member commission ( Judicial Committee) and determine the "guilt or innocence" of the sinner.

This is a misconception. The Watchtower does not dictate how the court will assess that privilege. It is not your place to instruct the court on what to do.

37 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

As far as can be seen, the purpose of the "Catholic confession" is to forgive the sinner and to appease him and lead him on the right path without "sanction" of excommunication.
With "JWs confession" one tries to determine whether there is guilt on the part of the one who is "confessing".

This observation lacks logic as, under Catholic rule, a confession is meant to obtain absolution from clergy who do not possess the authority to forgive sins, as they are not God.

There seems to be some confusion between "sin" and "obligation." Elders play a crucial role in guiding sinners towards repentance, emphasizing the principle of forgiveness. However, they do not possess the authority to forgive "murders" – that power lies solely with God. Additionally, elders are obligated to report any grave concerns to secular authorities under a court order, demonstrating a contrast to how clergy in other religions may defy secular authority, even in the face of a court order regarding clergy confession.

Before you and others jump to conclusions and "twist" my words as usual, it's important to recognize that these are two separate situations.

54 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Also, there is a huge difference between becoming a "priest" in the Catholic Church and becoming an "elder" in the JWs Church.
If JWs want to be like the "clergy" in the Catholic Church, judging by their demands to be treated in court the same as the Catholic clergy, then we wonder; do JWs elders want to go through the same requirements as candidates for the Catholic Priesthood? To finish college, not to get married and the like?

Can you offer evidence of Jesus attending a school of thought to become a Rabbi, according to the understanding of priestly qualities in Judaism?

57 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Controversial demands of JWs will mean controversial solutions in WTJWorg theology and practice. It remains to be seen how the courts will view and resolve this, and how the WTJWorg Administration (read, GB) will adapt to it.

This exclusive opportunity is dedicated to former members who seek to create confusion by advocating for different treatment of the Watchtower by secular courts, labeling them as "haters".

[Srecko Sostar]

29 minutes ago, George88 said:

This is a misconception. The Watchtower does not dictate how the court will assess that privilege.

On Sept. 21, 2021, Ivy Hill filed a motion for summary judgment, again requesting a declaration that its elders are “entitled to invoke the clergyman privilege under Section 6311.1(b) of the CPSL and Section 5943 of the Judicial Code, and, in the event the court determined that Section 5953 does not apply to its elders, that Section 5943 be deemed unconstitutional.”

[George88]

4 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

On Sept. 21, 2021, Ivy Hill filed a motion for summary judgment, again requesting a declaration that its elders are “entitled to invoke the clergyman privilege under Section 6311.1(b) of the CPSL and Section 5943 of the Judicial Code, and, in the event the court determined that Section 5953 does not apply to its elders, that Section 5943 be deemed unconstitutional.”

According to the rules set by the courts. What part of that don't you understand? You are providing the evidence on that code. What part of your post do you not comprehend?

The assessment of what is considered unconstitutional in the US will now be conducted by higher courts, which has led to the overturning of my decisions based on this. As a foreigner from the US, I am interested to know which other laws you believe should be changed to accommodate your specific needs and circumstances. By the way, who are you exactly, to make such demands?

[George88]

Srecko, it's essential that you fully grasp the legal language before sharing, especially when you perceive a judgment to be unfavorable towards the Watchtower. Otherwise, you'll only end up adding to your own confusion.

[Srecko Sostar]

35 minutes ago, George88 said:

Can you offer evidence of Jesus attending a school of thought to become a Rabbi, according to the understanding of priestly qualities in Judaism?

One way to comment on your question would be something like this;

Jesus' "elders", were chosen by Jesus and by God and HS, if I remember the biblical account correctly. In the continuation of their activities, they were "inspired" and were "guided" (even if it is one and the same) by HS. Jesus "taught" his elders how to do their ministry.

From further activities, described in the "Scriptures", I did not see that the future elders went to some courses or that they finished some schools within a particular Congregation or within an Area (Circuit) in which several congregations operate. Obviously, it was to be expected that their placement in the service "by HS", at that time by "laying hands" on these new elders, was sufficient accreditation. It is to be expected that "spirit-led" elders do not need anyone's "teaching" because HS teaches them how to act and how to make decisions.

In today's context, JWs elders should not go to "courses" organized by WTJWorg, because it is to be expected that they were also "appointed to the ministry" by the HS, at least that is what WTJWorg claims. And those that are "appointed and led by HS" should not be "led" by another person or organization, right?

WTJWorg's desire to be recognized by the world authorities like their Catholic counterparts, namely that they (JWs elders) are members of the JWs Clergy, does not support the public claims that JWs do not have "paid clergy". It can only mean that maybe JWs will have "unpaid clergy". lol

[George88]

17 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

One way to comment on your question would be something like this;

Jesus' "elders", were chosen by Jesus and by God and HS, if I remember the biblical account correctly. In the continuation of their activities, they were "inspired" and were "guided" (even if it is one and the same) by HS. Jesus "taught" his elders how to do their ministry.

It's important to note that by linking the Catholic faith with their requirements to become clergy in contrast to what Jesus taught, you have essentially condemned yourself. Teaching the word of God does not require one to adopt a Pharisee-like approach. Nevertheless, it is worth considering how many governments actually adhere to the teachings of the Bible.

21 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

From further activities, described in the "Scriptures", I did not see that the future elders went to some courses or that they finished some schools within a particular Congregation or within an Area (Circuit) in which several congregations operate. Obviously, it was to be expected that their placement in the service "by HS", at that time by "laying hands" on these new elders, was sufficient accreditation. It is to be expected that "spirit-led" elders do not need anyone's "teaching" because HS teaches them how to act and how to make decisions.

You are mistaken in this regard. Every believer in Christ requires the guidance of "scripture" for their teachings. However, specialized schools for evangelists enhance their conviction by providing a more comprehensive understanding of the word of God.

Why should the Pope be considered a teacher when even he, as the last time I checked, misunderstands scripture?

26 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

In today's context, JWs elders should not go to "courses" organized by WTJWorg, because it is to be expected that they were also "appointed to the ministry" by the HS, at least that is what WTJWorg claims. And those that are "appointed and led by HS" should not be "led" by another person or organization, right?

Your argument seems muddled and lacks coherence. What connection are you trying to establish here? Have you not noticed that those in the closed club claim to be witnesses and believe they are guided by the Holy Spirit in their defiance of God's word? Explain to me once more, why a theocratic school is not vital to reinforce the expectations of true Christians, just as Jesus used a similar form of education for his apostles, as you mentioned earlier.

33 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

WTJWorg's desire to be recognized by the world authorities like their Catholic counterparts, namely that they (JWs elders) are members of the JWs Clergy, does not support the public claims that JWs do not have "paid clergy". It can only mean that maybe JWs will have "unpaid clergy".

Srecko, your argument has a humorous twist to it. You have essentially created and then humorously answered your own argument, which is quite amusing!

Can you give me a coherent example of why congregations "shouldn't" have Elders or responsible men approved by God's Holy Spirit, as responsible guides to the church, when scripture indicates it?

Titus 1:5
5 The reason I left you in Crete was that you might put in order what was left unfinished and appoint elders in every town, as I directed you.

Are you challenging a specific part of Scripture? Is it the term "Elder" or the entire Word of God that you are questioning?

[Srecko Sostar]

10 hours ago, George88 said:

Are you challenging a specific part of Scripture? Is it the term "Elder" or the entire Word of God that you are questioning?

As far as I know, the Bible itself questions the position of elders within congregations, for a significant reason, actually because of danger. And that is that within the congregation there are false elders/teachers, who are wolves in sheep's clothing.
Yes, the Bible questions the status of elders, thus opening the door for any interested person (a Christian who is part of the congregation) to question those who put themselves in the position of religious leaders. So read your Bibles dear JWs and you will see that you have a God given right to "examine the spirits". (1 John 4)

Similar subject is under topic,  Paul's Letter to the Galatians and the Struggle for Doctrinal Purity

https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/topic/90791-pauls-letter-to-the-galatians-and-the-struggle-for-doctrinal-purity/

 

[George88]

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

As far as I know, the Bible itself questions the position of elders within congregations, for a significant reason, actually because of danger. And that is that within the congregation there are false elders/teachers, who are wolves in sheep's clothing.

Indeed, scripture cautions us about the manipulation of scripture by former members. It also alerts us to the manipulation of scripture by current members who, after breaking their oath of obedience, refuse to comply with God's will. In such instances, it is the duty of an Elder to exercise discernment, reason, and wisdom to identify this disobedience. Whether it means guiding and enlightening those who are eager to disobey due to their flawed interpretation of scripture to reconsider their flawed views and repent, or remove those who would otherwise sow discord in God's divine garden, the Elder must take appropriate action.

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Similar subject is under topic,  Paul's Letter to the Galatians and the Struggle for Doctrinal Purity

Regrettably, the mentioned topic is marred by biblical errors, which a genuine witness should carefully consider. Consequently, it fails to serve as a suitable example. Their interpretation of the Pauline framework differs from what should be truly comprehended.

[Srecko Sostar]

2 hours ago, George88 said:

Indeed, scripture cautions us about the manipulation of scripture by former members.

In fact, it warns of wolves that sit, stand, lie in the sheepfold. lol

[George88]

32 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

In fact, it warns of wolves that sit, stand, lie in the sheepfold.

The examples here are truly worth reflecting on, haha!