Who were those in “prison” who Jesus preached to during the three days of his death?

[Jack Ryan]

...

[JaniceM]

 

Located some explanations below:

 

*** it-1 p. 1089 Herald ***
Ke·rys′so, in general, means “proclaim” (good or bad news), as distinguished from eu·ag·ge·li′zo·mai, “declare good news.” Noah was a preacher (or herald, ke′ryx) to the antediluvian world, warning them. (2Pe 2:5) Christ preached (like a herald) to the spirits in prison, but not the good news.—1Pe 3:18, 19.

 

*** it-2 p. 492 Nephilim ***
The Bible states that the disobedient angels are now “spirits in prison,” having been ‘thrown into Tartarus’ and “reserved with eternal bonds under dense darkness for the judgment of the great day.” This seems to indicate that they are greatly restricted, unable again to materialize as they did prior to the Flood.—1Pe 3:19; 2Pe 2:4; Jude 6.

 

*** rs p. 163 Heaven ***
Did Jesus open the way to heaven for those who had died before his own death?
What does 1 Peter 3:19, 20 mean? “In this state [in the spirit, following his resurrection] also he [Jesus] went his way and preached to the spirits in prison, who had once been disobedient when the patience of God was waiting in Noah’s days, while the ark was being constructed, in which a few people, that is, eight souls [“souls,” KJ, Dy; “people,” TEV, JB; “persons,” RS], were carried safely through the water.” (Were those “spirits in prison” the souls of the humans who had refused to take heed to Noah’s preaching before the Flood, and was the way now open for them to go to heaven? Comparison of 2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 6 with Genesis 6:2-4 shows that these spirits were angelic sons of God that had materialized and married in Noah’s day. At 1 Peter 3:19, 20 the Greek word for “spirits” is pneu′ma·sin, while the word rendered “souls” is psy·khai′. The “spirits” were not disembodied souls but disobedient angels; the “souls” here referred to were living people, humans, Noah and his household. What was preached to “spirits in prison” must therefore have been a message of judgment.)

[HollyW]

On 9/4/2016 at 9:27 AM, Jay Witness said:

 

Who were those in “prison” who Jesus preached to during the three days of his death?

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; ¹⁹ in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison, ²⁰ who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.

We're given the time frame of the days of Noah and the disobedient ones were mankind, not angels, for why would God punish humans if angels were the ones being disobedient during those days of Noah.

[Evacuated]

7 hours ago, HollyW said:

why would God punish humans if angels were the ones being disobedient during those days of Noah

Because not only the angels were disobedient: Ge.6:5: "Consequently, Jehovah saw that man’s wickedness was great on the earth and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only bad all the time."

[HollyW]

3 minutes ago, Eoin Joyce said:

Because not only the angels were disobedient: Ge.6:5: "Consequently, Jehovah saw that man’s wickedness was great on the earth and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only bad all the time."

That scripture confirms my point, Eoin.  It was mankind, not angels, who had been wicked.  Angels are not even mentioned, only humans.  The Lord said he was sorry he had made man, not angels.

Genesis 6:1 Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, ² that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose. ³ Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.” ⁴ The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

⁵ Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. ⁶ The Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. ⁷ The Lord said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky; for I am sorry that I have made them.” ⁸ But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.

 

[Evacuated]

1 hour ago, HollyW said:

the sons of God

I suspect here we may have a different view point as we understand these to be angelic sons of god, not human sons of god. This would appear to harmonise with the expression “spirits in prison,”  at 1 Peter 3:19, and additionally referred to as "angels" at Jude 6. Of course there would be no disobedient humans from the time of Noah kept alive in a "prison" after their destruction down to the first century. As Ecc.9:5 shows, dead humans are as unconscious as living ones are conscious.

[JaniceM]

21 minutes ago, Eoin Joyce said:

I suspect here we may have a different view point as we understand these to be angelic sons of god, not human sons of god. This would appear to harmonise with the expression “spirits in prison,”  at 1 Peter 3:19, and additionally referred to as "angels" at Jude 6. Of course there would be no disobedient humans from the time of Noah kept alive in a "prison" after their destruction down to the first century. As Ecc.9:5 shows, dead humans are as unconscious as living ones are conscious.

 

Thank you Joyce so much for taking the time to respond or clarify.  It would appear there must have been some type of immorality on the part of the angels for Jude to compare their conduct with the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah.  Their wicked presence at the time of Noah probably added to the violence on earth.  I don't consider the book of Enoch as authentic but I think I saw some excerpts where it mentions the angels marrying woman, committing bestiality, eating animals, etc.   It also appears from scriptures, the angels were punished or in some type of imprisoned state or estrangement.  Some relevant verses are below:

 

(Jude 6, 7) And the angels that did not keep their original position but forsook their own proper dwelling place he has reserved with eternal bonds under dense darkness for the judgment of the great day. 7 So too Sod′om and Go·mor′rah and the cities about them, after they in the same manner as the foregoing ones had committed fornication excessively and gone out after flesh for unnatural use, are placed before [us] as a [warning] example by undergoing the judicial punishment of everlasting fire.

 

(2 Peter 2:4) Certainly if God did not hold back from punishing the angels that sinned, but, by throwing them into Tar′ta·rus, delivered them to pits of dense darkness to be reserved for judgment;

[HollyW]

13 minutes ago, Eoin Joyce said:

I suspect here we may have a different view point as we understand these to be angelic sons of god, not human sons of god.

Since they mate with humans they would have to be humans.  Angels do not reproduce even among themselves let alone with another species.

14 minutes ago, Eoin Joyce said:

This would appear to harmonise with the expression “spirits in prison,”  at 1 Peter 3:19, and additionally referred to as "angels" at Jude 6.

While the passage in 1 Peter 3:18-20 does reference the same time as Genesis 6, "in the days of Noah while the ark was being built" it doesn't reference either angels or sons of God but only those who were disobedient during that time----mankind----hence, the flood.

Jude 6 does not reference the same time as Genesis 6 at all: And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day.

However, 2 Peter 2:4-5 indicates that whenever whatever happened to the angels who sinned, it was NOT during Genesis 6 because they are presented as separate events:  For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment;⁵ and did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness, with seven others, when He brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly;

40 minutes ago, Eoin Joyce said:

Of course there would be no disobedient humans from the time of Noah kept alive in a "prison" after their destruction down to the first century.

Of course there would be; the wicked dead are in Hades until the resurrection at the end of the thousands years at the great white throne judgment.

41 minutes ago, Eoin Joyce said:

As Ecc.9:5 shows, dead humans are as unconscious as living ones are conscious.

In the book of Ecclesiastes...it seems to me that Solomon is giving the viewpoint a lot of people have about life being meaningless and vanity since we all die and that's because of what it looks like what happens from man's perspective. But he is leading up to the whole point of his writing which is stated at the end: 12:13 The conclusion, when all has been heard, is: fear God and keep His commandments, because this applies to every person. 14 For God will bring every act to judgment, everything which is hidden, whether it is good or evil.

So without God, everything is meaningless.

I see that in the current study guide, "What Does The Bible Really Teach?", Ecclesiastes 9:5 is cited as support for the view that "When a person dies, he ceases to exist." 

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know they will die; but the dead do not know anything, nor have they any longer a reward, for their memory is forgotten. 6 Indeed their love, their hate and their zeal have already perished, and they will no longer have a share in all that is done under the sun.

Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might; for there is no activity or planning or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol where you are going.

But do those verses really support WTS belief that the person has ceased to exist, will have no further reward, be forgotten, and "no longer have a share in all that is done under the sun" ?

No, because JWs say the person will have a future reward, be remembered by God, and will live forever on earth, "under the sun". 

[Shiwiii]

41 minutes ago, Eoin Joyce said:

As Ecc.9:5 shows, dead humans are as unconscious as living ones are conscious.

actually that is not what it says. The thoughts make no difference here on Earth after they have left as they cannot interact with those still here, thus they are forgotten. Ecclesiastes 9:5 talks about what is being done "under the sun" It is repeated many times and in each instance it talks about what is being done "under the sun", meaning while we are still alive on Earth. Some examples of this are :

Ecc 1:3  " What do people gain from all their labors at which they toil under the sun? "

Ecc 1:14 "I have seen all the things that are done under the sun; all of them are meaningless, a chasing after the wind." 

Ecc 2:8 "I hated all the things I had toiled for under the sun, because I must leave them to the one who comes after me."

Ecc 4:1 " Again I looked and saw all the oppression that was taking place under the sun: I saw the tears of the oppressed— and they have no comforter; power was on the side of their oppressors— and they have no comforter."

Ecc 6:12 "For who knows what is good for a person in life, during the few and meaningless days they pass through like a shadow? Who can tell them what will happen under the sun after they are gone?"

Ecc 9:6 "Their love, their hate and their jealousy have long since vanished; never again will they have a part in anything that happens under the sun." 

 

The verse you mentioned says nothing of the dead being unconscious, but rather their thoughts are meaningless to those who are still here. 

[Evacuated]

1 hour ago, HollyW said:

Since they mate with humans they would have to be humans.

Well, there's nothing especially revelatory here.

Didn't you read that when Abraham "unknowingly entertained angels"  (Heb. 13:2) they ate and drank the food he provided for them? (Gen.18:8: "He then took butter and milk and the young bull that he had prepared and set the food before them. Then he stood by them under the tree as they were eating.")? With nutrition and reproduction being two of the seven principal characteristcs of living (physical) organisms that we learn about at latest by 6th grade, we are not really pushing the boundaries here are we?

Now, to my understanding, I agree that angels do not reproduce among themselves.... but.... angels materialised as humans that can eat and drink? and likely exhibit the other characteristics of living (physical) organisms?  This is a whole different ball game. (Excuse me).  And given the rather peculiar nature of the male parent in this case, I would hazard a guess that the nature of the offspring of a (materialized spirit)/humanoid male, "mated" with a normal human female, whilst produced "after it's kind", would exhibit numerous different characteristics from the more usual offspring of the standard human species. Hence, the "Nephilim".

1 hour ago, HollyW said:

it doesn't reference either angels or sons of God

it references "spirits in prison" I'm not going to argue the case on this save to say this references spirits (whether they served as angels or not). Spirits are not humans.

1 hour ago, HollyW said:

Of course there would be

Now correct me if I have misunderstood, but this appears to be your response to my statement that there would be no dead people preseved alive somewhere by God from the time of the flood of Noah's day. And it appears you are suggesting they are kept alive in Hades? Although they are dead???

1 hour ago, HollyW said:

But do those verses really support WTS belief that the person has ceased to exist, will have no further reward, be forgotten, and "no longer have a share in all that is done under the sun" ?

Yes they do support WTS belief. Those who receive a reward of life in the future do so by means of a resurrection which takes place at a future time. It is not something they receive while they are dead. But then, you think dead people are alive don't you?

There is nothing more to be said on this subject from me unfortunately as it is not possible to reconcile a discussion on this kind of a topic where the condition of the dead is not scripturally established. 

 

 

[JaniceM]

Ooooh Joyce!

That was quite amazing  . . . . lol

 

[HollyW]

3 hours ago, Eoin Joyce said:

Well, there's nothing especially revelatory here.

Exactly, that's why sons of God who married daughters of men were humans, not angels.

3 hours ago, Eoin Joyce said:

Didn't you read that when Abraham "unknowingly entertained angels"  (Heb. 13:2) they ate and drank the food he provided for them? (Gen.18:8: "He then took butter and milk and the young bull that he had prepared and set the food before them. Then he stood by them under the tree as they were eating.")? With nutrition and reproduction being two of the seven principal characteristcs of living (physical) organisms that we learn about at latest by 6th grade, we are not really pushing the boundaries here are we?

Why are you assuming that angels cannot eat and drink what humans do?

3 hours ago, Eoin Joyce said:

Now, to my understanding, I agree that angels do not reproduce among themselves.... but.... angels materialised as humans that can eat and drink?  

Angels do not "materialize" human bodies (i.e., materialize according to the WTS = creating bodies of flesh to appear in).  Spirit bodies can be seen by humans if God allows them to be.  Take, for instance, Balaam and his donkey---the angel was seen by the donkey but not by Balaam, nor, evidently by his two servants.  If the angel were materializing a human body, Balaam would have seen it just as the donkey did, but God did not allow it.  It had nothing to do with an angel creating a physical body to appear in (i.e. "materialized").

 

3 hours ago, Eoin Joyce said:

and likely exhibit the other characteristics of living (physical) organisms?  This is a whole different ball game. (Excuse me).  And given the rather peculiar nature of the male parent in this case, I would hazard a guess that the nature of the offspring of a (materialized spirit)/humanoid male, "mated" with a normal human female, whilst produced "after it's kind", would exhibit numerous different characteristics from the more usual offspring of the standard human species. Hence, the "Nephilim".

 What you belief is leading you into is the false idea that angels can create flesh and evidently sperm along with it.  Not going to happen.  There is no Biblical evidence to support your belief; rather, the Bible attributes all creation to the Father, the Holy Spirit, and the Word.

Nor is there any clear evidence of who or what the Nephilim were, but whatever they were, they were not angels nor sons of angels.  Angels are not physical nor can they create physical bodies (your word "materialize"), thus they cannot and did not mate with women. 

3 hours ago, Eoin Joyce said:

Now correct me if I have misunderstood, but this appears to be your response to my statement that there would be no dead people preseved alive somewhere by God from the time of the flood of Noah's day. And it appears you are suggesting they are kept alive in Hades? Although they are dead???

Well, in your reply you quoted only a part of what I said.  Was there a reason for overlooking the rest of it:

5 hours ago, HollyW said:

Of course there would be; the wicked dead are in Hades until the resurrection at the end of the thousands years at the great white throne judgment.

 

3 hours ago, Eoin Joyce said:

Yes they do support WTS belief. Those who receive a reward of life in the future do so by means of a resurrection which takes place at a future time.

Maybe we should read again what the writer of Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 says about those who die:

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know they will die; but the dead do not know anything, nor have they any longer a reward, for their memory is forgotten. 6 Indeed their love, their hate and their zeal have already perished, and they will no longer have a share in all that is done under the sun.

By what sort of magic do you turn his words into meaning Jehovah will remember this person, reward him (or her) with life that will be on earth under the sun?  Obviously these verses are saying the opposite of what you believe.

3 hours ago, Eoin Joyce said:

It is not something they receive while they are dead. But then, you think dead people are alive don't you?

The Bible shows that those who have died are still conscious, and can see and speak and hear.

3 hours ago, Eoin Joyce said:

There is nothing more to be said on this subject from me unfortunately as it is not possible to reconcile a discussion on this kind of a topic where the condition of the dead is not scripturally established.

Jesus himself established the condition of the dead in his parable about the rich man and Lazarus.  He shows they are conscious, can feel pain, can see and speak and hear.  He also said that the soul does not die when the body dies.  And in a vision that John saw and recorded in Revelation 6:9-11 there are souls in heaven of persons who have died and they are conscious and can speak and see and hear and reason.